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Hector The Pup
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 73
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 Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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5-1 against...
Clippers without Brand
Warriors with Steve Jackson at the 4
Spurs without Duncan
Nuggets with KMart still not at 100%
Wolves with Bynum covering Jefferson
Not exactly running the gauntlet if you ask me. |
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GCMD
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 11124
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Wasn't the issue with LO supposed to be "he missed training camp/coming off an injury"?
Wasn't the move to SF supposed to "open up post-up opportunities against smaller SFs/decrease his injuries"???
When will it end?
You play him at PF...he struggles.
You play him at SF...he struggles.
So you put him BACK at PF and he gets the same numbers he got before and now he's good at PF???
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Savory Griddles
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 6645
Location: AV,CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector The Pup wrote: |
5-1 against...
Clippers without Brand
Warriors with Steve Jackson at the 4
Spurs without Duncan
Nuggets with KMart still not at 100%
Wolves with Bynum covering Jefferson
Not exactly running the gauntlet if you ask me. |
Disagree with the bolded. This realm may be the new 100% for K-Mart. Dude is not coming back to NJ form ever again. |
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Critical Beatdown
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 11101
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector The Pup wrote: |
5-1 against...
Clippers without Brand
Warriors with Steve Jackson at the 4
Spurs without Duncan
Nuggets with KMart still not at 100%
Wolves with Bynum covering Jefferson
Not exactly running the gauntlet if you ask me. |
Lamar and Mihm covered Jefferson, and these are weak excuses. KMart hasn't been 100% all season, but Denver has been a good team. The Warriors are what they are, I'm not sure why we would discount that game. Clippers and Wolves suck, no doubt. Spurs without Duncan were still winning most of their games, but without Parker too they pretty much are a B-Level team, again no doubt.
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Critical Beatdown
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 11101
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| GCMD wrote: |
You play him at PF...he struggles.
You play him at SF...he struggles.
So you put him BACK at PF and he gets the same numbers he got before and now he's good at PF???
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Lamar was one of the best PF's in the league last season, I missed the part where he struggled there.
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GCMD
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 11124
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector The Pup wrote: |
5-1 against...
Clippers without Brand
Warriors with Steve Jackson at the 4
Spurs without Duncan
Nuggets with KMart still not at 100%
Wolves with Bynum covering Jefferson
Not exactly running the gauntlet if you ask me. |
Exactly...and don't forget he had Camby on him on offense with DEN...not exactly a great perimeter defender...yet LO didn't take him off the dribble?
Bonner with the Spurs...
Maggette with the Clips...
Madsen with the Wolves or Smith or Gomes...
This is a sad example of stat manipulation to bolster an argument.
That's why I HATE stats.
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Critical Beatdown
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 11101
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Again, Lamar covered Al Jefferson half the game, and Mihm covered him the other half. Jefferson didn't do jack against Lamar.
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Critical Beatdown
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 11101
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| GCMD wrote: |
| That's why I HATE stats. |
Actually, it sounds like you hate WINS. To say we're 5-1 with Lamar at PF is just to state the facts. To say it's because of Lamar is a different story, I wouldn't go there, but it has helped that Lamar has found his groove and is back in sync (except the J being more inconsistent and less effective than usual).
Anyhow, to say the 5-1 is mostly due to Lamar is not really a statistical argument, but using some statistics to point out a correlation that then seems to confuse correlation with causation, without bringing other stronger arguments (i.e. misusing statistics)..
In this case, I do find it interesting, as we are obviously a better team when Lamar is playing well, and he has been playing well at PF.
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Ed Guru
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 538
Location: Unofficial New Zeaaland Rep
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Guys, Lamar's a tweener - he can play both positiions well.. or neither well depending on which side your bread is buttered.
Personally I think he plays fine from an offensive perspective in either role - I'd like to see less jumpers, but I guess I could say the same of most of our players..
Defensively he can mark slower 3s well and weaker 4s - which is why he can look quite decent sometimes on defence and bad others.. he's definitely not a great defender by anyone's stretch but he does lots of great things on the offensive end - many that don't show in a stats box. Besides he isn't going anywhere IMHO so love him or hate him..
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lakerfan2
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 2862
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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It's cause he's getting out of the way of Bynum more.  |
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L4L
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 9233
Location: Trade Rumors Forum
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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LO at the four presents the same advantages and disadvantages it always has... What's new?
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Kobe Bryant 8
CL's Voice of Reason
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 13131
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| L4L wrote: |
| LO at the four presents the same advantages and disadvantages it always has... What's new? |
Bynum.
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L4L
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 9233
Location: Trade Rumors Forum
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe Bryant 8 wrote: |
| L4L wrote: |
| LO at the four presents the same advantages and disadvantages it always has... What's new? |
Bynum. |
Which isn't in Lamar's favor IMHO.
One of Lamar's primary contributions was his ability to keep us competitive on the boards. Bynum does that and more.
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GCMD
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 11124
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| GCMD wrote: |
| That's why I HATE stats. |
Actually, it sounds like you hate WINS. |
You can't be serious...
| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| To say we're 5-1 with Lamar at PF is just to state the facts. |
That's true...if that was the only statement made, we wouldn't be having this conversation...
| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| To say it's because of Lamar is a different story, I wouldn't go there, but it has helped that Lamar has found his groove and is back in sync (except the J being more inconsistent and less effective than usual). |
I'm glad someone who supports LO sees this. But saying LO is playing better BECAUSE he is PF is another statement as fact without qualification.
He wasn't playing well to start, not because of his position but because of his INJURY...
You can't have it both ways.
"Injured or out of shape or lack of training camp" when he's playing poorly.
"in his groove at PF" when he's playing BETTER...
| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| Anyhow, to say the 5-1 is mostly due to Lamar is not really a statistical argument, but using some statistics to point out a correlation that then seems to confuse correlation with causation, without bringing other stronger arguments (i.e. misusing statistics).. |
I'm with you 100%. You should really say that in simple terms. Not every one here has had Philosophy, Statistics, or higher order Mathematics...
Translation:
Saying we are winning with LO at PF is like saying the SUN doesn't come out when it rains. That doesn't mean the rain is affecting the SUN.
It's a weak argument based on loosely related facts.
| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| In this case, I do find it interesting, as we are obviously a better team when Lamar is playing well, and he has been playing well at PF. |
That's to be expected. LO is the second best player on the team. After him and (quickly becoming) Bynum, there is a SERIOUS drop off in legit consistent (based on numbers) talent...
I don't believe in stats as a primary tool for analysis of a player like LO because of the misuse and exclusion of other factors and/or stats, as you pointed out. I didn't say that stats are useless.
I didn't say LO playing well doesn't help us win games...that would be stupid. The closest I've ever been to saying something like that is when I point out LO's contribution down the stretch.
But this is a joke.
People want to discount years of data to prop up 6 games?
When this guy puts together 5 good games, we can talk. When he's put together 10 out of 15, an argument can start to develop. When he's had a majority of good games for 1 season, then inference and correlations can be made.
6 games? Where he wasn't even a factor in the 4th quarter in at least half of those?
That's just crazy...
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Critical Beatdown
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 11101
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| L4L wrote: |
| Kobe Bryant 8 wrote: |
| L4L wrote: |
| LO at the four presents the same advantages and disadvantages it always has... What's new? |
Bynum. |
Which isn't in Lamar's favor IMHO.
One of Lamar's primary contributions was his ability to keep us competitive on the boards. Bynum does that and more. |
Actually, what's wrong with absolute domination on the glass, which is what having both Lamar and Drew produces?
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Kobe Bryant 8
CL's Voice of Reason
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 13131
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| L4L wrote: |
| Kobe Bryant 8 wrote: |
| L4L wrote: |
| LO at the four presents the same advantages and disadvantages it always has... What's new? |
Bynum. |
Which isn't in Lamar's favor IMHO.
One of Lamar's primary contributions was his ability to keep us competitive on the boards. Bynum does that and more. |
Actually, what's wrong with absolute domination on the glass, which is what having both Lamar and Drew produces? |
There's nothing wrong with it, even though we split the boards with the Clips even.
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L4L
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 9233
Location: Trade Rumors Forum
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| L4L wrote: |
| Kobe Bryant 8 wrote: |
| L4L wrote: |
| LO at the four presents the same advantages and disadvantages it always has... What's new? |
Bynum. |
Which isn't in Lamar's favor IMHO.
One of Lamar's primary contributions was his ability to keep us competitive on the boards. Bynum does that and more. |
Actually, what's wrong with absolute domination on the glass, which is what having both Lamar and Drew produces? |
The defensive sacrifice you make by putting Lamar at PF. In the past, we couldn't afford NOT to put him there because of his rebounding. That is why Phil initially took away his facilitating duties as I'm sure you very well remember.
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Critical Beatdown
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 11101
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| GCMD wrote: |
But saying LO is playing better BECAUSE he is PF is another statement as fact without qualification.
He wasn't playing well to start, not because of his position but because of his INJURY...
You can't have it both ways. |
I didn't actually say the bolded, and don't believe it, at least not as a primary explanation.
And yes, you can have it both ways, because Lamar was struggling at first because of missing training camp, and missing training camp was even worse for him because he was being moved to a new position and role, so had to try and pick it up on the fly when still rusty, so the injury led to the rehab led to the missed training camp led to the rust led to the rougher adjustment to a new position and role.
I wouldn't say that Lamar has played better because he moved back to PF (it's certainly possible though, hard to prove either way), but I would say it definitely didn't hurt since part of his rough adjustment from having missed training camp was adapting to the new position (but for all we know it was really the time on the floor that got Lamar back in sync, not the position change, so again there's no definitive answer here).
It's also pretty clear his rebounding numbers have come up in part because he's playing PF and not SF, so it's hard to say whether that aspect really "improved".
It's also very clear that his jump shot % is far below his performance the last several seasons, so it's pretty clear that not being able to shoot jumpers in the offseason while rehabbing his shoulder didn't "help" either.
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Critical Beatdown
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 11101
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| L4L wrote: |
| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| L4L wrote: |
| Kobe Bryant 8 wrote: |
| L4L wrote: |
| LO at the four presents the same advantages and disadvantages it always has... What's new? |
Bynum. |
Which isn't in Lamar's favor IMHO.
One of Lamar's primary contributions was his ability to keep us competitive on the boards. Bynum does that and more. |
Actually, what's wrong with absolute domination on the glass, which is what having both Lamar and Drew produces? |
The defensive sacrifice you make by putting Lamar at PF. In the past, we couldn't afford NOT to put him there because of his rebounding. That is why Phil initially took away his facilitating duties as I'm sure you very well remember. |
I expect Lamar to be jumping back and forth from PF to SF and back to PF based upon match ups anyway. There aren't that many big power forwards who can bruise Lamar up in the first place - Al Jefferson got nothing going against Lamar for instance.
When we need a bigger body at PF, we have Ronny and even Kwame if we sacrifice some O, and Lamar can drop down to SF, where will be even more dominant on the glass. Lamar will look like he's not rebounding as much, but that will be illusory because we will be rebounding much better overall from a team aspect.
And when we play most teams without dominant power forwards, Lamar can and will be very effective there. Phoenix, Dallas, Denver, Houston, and New Orleans don't have PFs who Lamar can't match up against.
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melo061
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 3101
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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BS
Problem with Lamar is that
1- We've always been weak defensively with him there- We get abused by 4's
2- Lamar gets injured frequently at the 4
Deal Lamar for a real 4.
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L4L
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 9233
Location: Trade Rumors Forum
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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CB, I've been calling this since the off-season. I specifically said, "Lamar will need to be versatile for us."
Here's the problem that people are neglecting, in my perception, that I think is critical:
Lamar is a much better defender at the three than Luke Walton or VladRad.
Exhibit A: Luke gets torched repeatedly by BONZI WELLS. I can't remember Lamar even struggling with him.
Lamar isn't a horrible defender at the 4 depending on the match-up, but he's not good either. He's actually decent at times at the 3. On the other hand, Luke is terrible no matter what position you put him at. Putting LO at the 4 requires Luke or Vlad playing against opposing starters defensively. I don't like that thought.
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Critical Beatdown
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 11101
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| L4L wrote: |
CB, I've been calling this since the off-season. I specifically said, "Lamar will need to be versatile for us."
Here's the problem that people are neglecting, in my perception, that I think is critical:
Lamar is a much better defender at the three than Luke Walton or VladRad.
Exhibit A: Luke gets torched repeatedly by BONZI WELLS. I can't remember Lamar even struggling with him.
Lamar isn't a horrible defender at the 4 depending on the match-up, but he's not good either. He's actually decent at times at the 3. On the other hand, Luke is terrible no matter what position you put him at. Putting LO at the 4 requires Luke or Vlad playing against opposing starters defensively. I don't like that thought. |
Those are some good points, and I'm not in love with Luke or Vlad's defense either. I would personally prefer to see Lamar more at SF, especially once Kwame comes back and Ronny can start again, but have no big concerns about Lamar holding his own against most PFs (on both ends of the floor).
Luke and Rad gotta get their minutes in somehow, so we have to figure out if playing them together on the 2nd unit is suitable, or if we need to break them up more for defensive purposes.
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TalkieWalkie
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2811
Location: SoCal (avy by Trixx of realgm)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Odom needs to be Basketball's Antonio Gates.
Gates is a mismatch nightmare on the football field...he's way to quick for opposing linebackers to cover him out in open space... and against corners, he just punishes them with his size and ability to box them out of the passing corridors.... He's an example of a guy who KNOWS his physical gifts and knows where in the game he needs to use them to exploit defenses...
Lamar Odom has VERY SIMILAR traits...except he just doesn't have the smarts to do it. He can take any 4 off the dribble...he can post up most 3s... He's a matchup nightmare...but he has yet to do it for a single game...he's a guy who could EASILY score 30 points if he wanted too at an efficient clip...He just doesnt have the single mindedness to focus on how to exploit people.
He'll see a smaller guy on him and wonder if he should try to face up on him and take him off the dribble...he sees a big and tries to post him up...
A smarter Lamar will see what the situation is....if he's on the wing and he has a big on him, he'll make up his mind what he needs to do...go baseline and if he closes you off, spin middle....
If he's in the post and Cuttino Mobley is covering him, post up and go to your jump hook...
He should narrow down his plays....narrow down his options. It seems like he is thinking to much.
Does anyone here think that Lamar watches game film?
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GCMD
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 11124
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| GCMD wrote: |
But saying LO is playing better BECAUSE he is PF is another statement as fact without qualification.
He wasn't playing well to start, not because of his position but because of his INJURY...
You can't have it both ways. |
I didn't actually say the bolded, and don't believe it, at least not as a primary explanation. |
Of course it's not a primary explanation...but look at the stats...
12.9/7.7 in Nov.
14.9/10+ in Dec.
Close to his career avg in DEC. Way down in NOV.
| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| And yes, you can have it both ways, because Lamar was struggling at first because of missing training camp, and missing training camp was even worse for him because he was being moved to a new position and role, so had to try and pick it up on the fly when still rusty, so the injury led to the rehab led to the missed training camp led to the rust led to the rougher adjustment to a new position and role. |
And what was his new role? He played from the same spot on the floor as he did as a PF...on the perimeter. And yes, I have watched both. New role in the triangle is NOTHING. After 3 years in the triangle, that excuse is beyond tired.
He was injured which did cause him to miss training camp, but didn't Kobe miss training camp recently? Like a year ago?
Didn't Kobe sit out some of the practices or just didn't participate, according to Phil and the media? That wasn't an excuse for him.
And LO hurt his SHOULDER...doesn't really affect conditioning and he said he dropped the weight to play SF...
Excuses got too many Swiss Cheese holes in them...
| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| I wouldn't say that Lamar has played better because he moved back to PF (it's certainly possible though, hard to prove either way), but I would say it definitely didn't hurt since part of his rough adjustment from having missed training camp was adapting to the new position (but for all we know it was really the time on the floor that got Lamar back in sync, not the position change, so again there's no definitive answer here). |
Excellent answer. You just chose one. And IMHO, it was the right one.
| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| It's also pretty clear his rebounding numbers have come up in part because he's playing PF and not SF, so it's hard to say whether that aspect really "improved". |
Improved to his avg...that's nothing to get excited about unless you think LO getting his avg makes us a better team than last year...
Or the year before that...or the year before that...
Guarding post player will increase your chances at defensive rebounds...
I keep telling you guys that LO doesn't play in the post and I've finally found a stat to prove it...
Look at his offensive rebounds from last year, spent mostly at PF (1.8 orpg, 68th overall). Compare them to players like:
Al Jefferson (33.6 mpg - 3.4 orpg)
Emeka (34.8 - 3.9)
Zadrunas (27.3 - 3.1)
Tim Duncan (34.1 - 2.7)
Tyson Chandler (34.6 - 4.4)
Dwight Howard (36.9 - 3.5)
Elton Brand (38.5 - 3.4)
Boozer (34.6 - 3.2)
Drew Gooden (28.0 - 3.3)
Compared to the guys around LO's ranking at 68th in ORPG (in 39.3 mpg and 1.8 orpg):
Harrington (33 mpg - 1.9 orpg)
Antwan Jamison (38 mpg - 1.9)
Josh Howard (35.1 mpg - 1.9)
Joe Smith (23.1 mpg - 1.8)
Deng (37.5 mpg - 1.8)
Prince (36.6 - 1.8)
Notice the trend? Post players with legit post game vs tweeners who can put good RPGs based on their athleticism but obviously shy away from the post on offense.
And an interesting point was brought up last night by Stu Lance...he talked about how BYNUM was doing a great job of boxing out his man to allow LO to get the defensive rebounds.
I make no suppositions or extrapolations, no inferences or correlations. Take it for what it is.
The point is there has been really no change in the way he's playing the game. Whether he's at PF or SF...
04-05 - 2.1 orpg, 60th in 36 mpg...(behind Chris Mihm 27th with 2.6 orpg in 25 mpg)
05-06 - 2.3, 39th - 40.4 mpg (behind Kwame at 25th [2.5 in only 27.7 mpg] and Mihm at 34 [2.3 - 26.2mpg])
06-07 - 1.8 - 39.3mpg (again behind Kwame - 56th [2.0 in 27.6mpg])
And that makes sense to people who watch the game. Kwame and Mihm spend MUCH more time down low than LO. Not because they are CENTERS or PFs. It's because they are post players.
Having LO at PF means we are going to lose post production on offense, no matter HOW you put it.
I've said he didn't play in the post.
I've seen he doesn't play in the post.
There is NO WAY you can tell me that if LO was in the post offense, he wouldn't be putting up top numbers in ORPG.
| Critical Beatdown wrote: |
| It's also very clear that his jump shot % is far below his performance the last several seasons, so it's pretty clear that not being able to shoot jumpers in the offseason while rehabbing his shoulder didn't "help" either. |
That's a VERY valid point. But I'm not sure anyone expected him to come back shooting well from the perimeter off an injury to the shoulder he shoots from...
I expected him to have a more refined post game BECAUSE of him not being able to shoot J's...if he didn't work on his post moves, what DID he do?
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Critical Beatdown
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 11101
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| GCMD wrote: |
And that makes sense to people who watch the game. Kwame and Mihm spend MUCH more time down low than LO. Not because they are CENTERS or PFs. It's because they are post players.
Having LO at PF means we are going to lose post production on offense, no matter HOW you put it. |
That doesn't really make sense to people who watched Lakers games last season though, because we don't require just one player to go in the post, Lamar would operate in there sometimes and other times Luke would be and other times Kobe would be (and Kwame and Ronny).
Lamar shot 45% of his shots inside the lane last season, at a 65% clip, while Luke Walton took 41% of his shots inside the lane at a 62% clip. That's a very effective forward combination scoring inside with a balanced shot selection, and Luke does have very good post skills (as does Lamar when he goes to them). Obviously, a good portion of those inside buckets for Lamar came off slashing and dribble penetration, but the bottom line is that he can score inside in a multitude of ways, including posting up, and he can do it off the dribble creating for himself and others too.
For comparison, Drew Gooden shot 42% of his shots inside at only a 57% clip, and don't even get me started by calling Tyson Chandler an effective offensive post player. I grant that most of the guys you mentioned are more limited in that they ONLY have post game, but Lamar has BOTH post game and perimeter game, which is not a handicap but a blessing, especially considering Andrew Bynum is our big man in the middle for the next decade, so a PF who is primarily a post player would not be a good fit for the Tri or our squad (into the future), while Lamar Odom most definitely is.
Like you, I do wish Lamar would operate in the post more often, especially when he's at SF. When he's at PF, the mismatch he creates is in space against bigger PFs, not in the post (he should be abusing smaller PFs more often in the post too).
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davriver290
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 2923
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I guess, I just want Odom healthy for the rest of the season plus post season.
I still haven't seen the Odom I wanna see, he still hasn't scored more then 25 yet.
Im waiting for him to have a 30+ pt game.
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There are so many emotions at the end of the season, nobody likes to talk about it. But one of them is fear, fear that you come this far and it can all end. The dream could die. But me? I like the fear, it means I'm close. It means...... I'm ready.
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wolfpaclaker
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 1733
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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It's funny. Read a lot less hate for Lamar here. About the most hate I wind up reading are guys who dominantly post on another board. It's the same blah blah, one liner stuff.
I think Lamar is better at PF, and is playing better since December began. Thought it would take a month before he would play like himself again.
The Lakers (including Lamar) need to play to their strengths. Jackson just needs to keep getting on all of them (esp Kobe) and things will be allright. |
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RJ
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 4589
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| JKsnoots wrote: |
| DALakeshow wrote: |
Good point and i agree.
What hurt us last year was our injuries. It wasn't that Lamar was any type of a liability at the 4. He's actually a very good starting PF.
We just have to stay healthy and we are a top 4 seed |
The same can be said for Houston, New Orleans, Utah, and Denver. What do we have that separates us from the others? |
Kobe Bryant & Phil Jackson.
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Radner
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11392
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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