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GuRu
Better Than You
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 29598
Location: Michigan
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 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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My sources say this thread will reach 15 pages by tommorrow 
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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What I ALSO find hilarious is how some of you who are in favor of bringing in A HEADCASE like RON ARTEST are trying to accuse Kwame of being a MALCONTENT!  |
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GuRu
Better Than You
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 29598
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| VerbalMilk wrote: |
| What I ALSO find hilarious is how some of you who are in favor of bringing in A HEADCASE like RON ARTEST are trying to accuse Kwame of being a MALCONTENT! |
People are never going to behappy here VM, youll soon learn that
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maddprophet
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Hotlanta, GA.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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VERBAL-
didn't you hear, it's caron freaking butler we're moving. i think thats gone unnoticed   lol!
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Spark the ism, my expertism, is lyricism, my flow will take you over, like I was hypnotism..so where's the lighter.... |
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Kingsama
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3981
Location: Tejas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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How many times does it need to be said that Caron is a dime a dozen in the L . 6'7" athletes who are slashers and cant d grow on freakin trees. He averaged 15 a game on a lottery team where Chuck it up atkins averaged 12. Gimme a break teams dont need SF, and barring a miracle he isnt going to bring back a 15 and 10 PF. Kwame was injured through out the year last year and had a myriad of issues with MJ, and the coaching staff years before.
In his third year (At 21 years old) he average 11 and 7 and had some huge games in the begining and end of the year. Is he perfect? No, but with a supportive enviroment he could EASILY BE a 13 and 8 guy. i will personally laugh out loud if he comes to LA and develops...
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"God creates out of nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: he makes saints out of sinners."
"The highest and most beautiful things in life are not to be heard about, nor read about, nor seen but, if one will, are to be lived."
'Purity of heart is to will one thing."
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abeer3
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 4507
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| VerbalMilk wrote: |
| What I ALSO find hilarious is how some of you who are in favor of bringing in A HEADCASE like RON ARTEST are trying to accuse Kwame of being a MALCONTENT! |
i hear you verbal. more irony: the people who are on the bash kwame train are largely the same synchophants that bash kobe in the media. popular opinion is just popular, not always correct... |
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etowler
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Just a random thought here....I see you all going back and forth about Brown vs. Butler. Admittedly, I don't know very much about Brown, but as a die-hard Laker fan, I know true heart when I see it. And that's what I see when I watch Caron Butler play. Say what you want about numbers and stats, but apparently you can't teach the intangibles. Caron really feels like a Laker to me. Certainly more than another "possible future breakout star". All you real fans out there: do you really want to be so quick to ship out one of the best elements of last season? He's a good guy and plays his a** off, every game, every play.
Anyway, that's my take, so go ahead and let the bashing begin.
It's my first real post, so please, be gentle.
Rock on, Laker freaks!! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| GuRu wrote: |
| borri wrote: |
If this goes through, a couple of thoughts come to mind:
1. How high is Caron's stock as viewed by the league?
2. Is this the BEST deal we can get for Caron?
3. Do we give Mitch the benefit of the doubt that Kwame is the best possible deal we could have consumated?
If in reality and i hope for Mitch's sake that Caron isn't gettin much love from the league, then I say, what else can we do? Keep Caron for another year and have redundancy at the 3 position and lost him next year via free agency or trade him now for whatever we can get?
On the other hand, could it be that NBA gm's know that we are in dire need of frontline help, that we likely won't re-sign Butler next year, and are therefore LOW BALLING Mitch for Butler? |
People have been over-valuing Butler for months. No matter what Mitch gets in return, people will be in outrage!!
Youll have your average Mitch hater who hates everything he does regardless.
Youll have your Caron-cult who fails to see he doesnt fit and is of the most common skill set in the NBA
And youll also have your typical uneducated morons who will go on and on about both players, but have probablt NEVER seen Kwame play a game in their lives
Expect a lot of rush to judgement and overreaction. Its a CL staple |
Yawn. no one is saying they wouldnt trade caron. Kwame is an idiot. He is soft, he quits, doesnt use is whatever to his advantage. Low BBall IQ. he is RYAN LEAF. Where will his minutes come from. Turiaf, Mihm, Bynum. All 3 of these guys have as much POTENTIAL as Kwame. the dude is a quiter. he mopes on the bench. If your going to go out on a limb and make a trade, get someone that shows Moxy. And yes you will have mitch haters and caron lovers. ITS CALLED AN OPINION. I have seen Kwame play. the dude plays like hes 6'6. We have plenty of those |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| TomSeaver wrote: |
| Is Butler's stock so low that this is all we could get? Washington was fat up with Brown anyway. We didn't have to give up Butler. |
It's the NBA, dawg. Big Men automatically have more worth than other players. It's just the way it is. You can't teach height, but you sure the hell can coach it. So caron may have more skills than Kwame, but Caron can't patrol the paint, and he who controls the paint - Controls the titles.
That's why people always say "You don't trade a Bigs and not get a Bigs in return"...The Wiz are gettin' banged on this one if the Lkaers don't have to give up a quality Big. Then again, do we have any quality Bigs? LOL! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| GuRu wrote: |
| VerbalMilk wrote: |
| What I ALSO find hilarious is how some of you who are in favor of bringing in A HEADCASE like RON ARTEST are trying to accuse Kwame of being a MALCONTENT! |
People are never going to behappy here VM, youll soon learn that |
Dawg, I'm SLOWLY startin' to see that, trust me!  |
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LakRfAn
Resident Hoops Junkie
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 3148
Location: LA Baby!!!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| hZm wrote: |
| Haha, if its true... we just got screwed. |
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Jordan-esque
Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 4675
Location: So Cal in Sept
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| GuRu wrote: |
| My sources say this thread will reach 15 pages by tommorrow |
True. There also migth be at least 5 more new threads about Kwame by tomorrow.
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Lakers Strategy:... 95%  ... +... 5%  ... = 100% |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| maddprophet wrote: |
VERBAL-
didn't you hear, it's caron freaking butler we're moving. i think thats gone unnoticed lol! |
Maddawg, my bad...how could I forget: IT'S CARON FREAKIN' BUTLER, for Christ's sake! |
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GuRu
Better Than You
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 29598
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| wingnut wrote: |
| Yawn. no one is saying they wouldnt trade caron. Kwame is an idiot. He is soft, he quits, doesnt use is whatever to his advantage. Low BBall IQ. he is RYAN LEAF. Where will his minutes come from. Turiaf, Mihm, Bynum. All 3 of these guys have as much POTENTIAL as Kwame. the dude is a quiter. he mopes on the bench. If your going to go out on a limb and make a trade, get someone that shows Moxy. And yes you will have mitch haters and caron lovers. ITS CALLED AN OPINION. I have seen Kwame play. the dude plays like hes 6'6. We have plenty of those |
And (just playing Devils advocate here) people could make a case for Kwame as well. Hes an athletic 7 footer, still young, showed some potential last year,s teadily improving, only 22 like Jermain O'Neal comparison, ect....
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I Offered My Honor
She Honored My Offer
And All Night Long
It Was Honor and Offer |
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lakerstuntman
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 62
Location: las vegas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| maybe if we trade butler in a package to wizard for brown and gilbert! i would be happy with that!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| abeer3 wrote: |
| VerbalMilk wrote: |
| What I ALSO find hilarious is how some of you who are in favor of bringing in A HEADCASE like RON ARTEST are trying to accuse Kwame of being a MALCONTENT! |
i hear you verbal. more irony: the people who are on the bash kwame train are largely the same synchophants that bash kobe in the media. popular opinion is just popular, not always correct... |
EXACTAMUNDO, dawg!
(Good lawd, please tell me I'm not using Fonziisms now!  ) |
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maddprophet
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Hotlanta, GA.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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wingnut-
who would you recommend??
as a pf/c that is??
_________________
Spark the ism, my expertism, is lyricism, my flow will take you over, like I was hypnotism..so where's the lighter.... |
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Coville
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 6876
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerstuntman wrote: |
| maybe if we trade butler in a package to wizard for brown and gilbert! i would be happy with that!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
yeah cuz that makes so much sense |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| GuRu wrote: |
| wingnut wrote: |
| Yawn. no one is saying they wouldnt trade caron. Kwame is an idiot. He is soft, he quits, doesnt use is whatever to his advantage. Low BBall IQ. he is RYAN LEAF. Where will his minutes come from. Turiaf, Mihm, Bynum. All 3 of these guys have as much POTENTIAL as Kwame. the dude is a quiter. he mopes on the bench. If your going to go out on a limb and make a trade, get someone that shows Moxy. And yes you will have mitch haters and caron lovers. ITS CALLED AN OPINION. I have seen Kwame play. the dude plays like hes 6'6. We have plenty of those |
And (just playing Devils advocate here) people could make a case for Kwame as well. Hes an athletic 7 footer, still young, showed some potential last year,s teadily improving, only 22 like Jermain O'Neal comparison, ect.... |
JO always had a nasty streak. Kwames fine. We need PRODUCTION. I will take solid role/bench guys for Caron. I dont need expect a stud. I would love Mike James for him |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| etowler wrote: |
Just a random thought here....I see you all going back and forth about Brown vs. Butler. Admittedly, I don't know very much about Brown, but as a die-hard Laker fan, I know true heart when I see it. And that's what I see when I watch Caron Butler play. Say what you want about numbers and stats, but apparently you can't teach the intangibles. Caron really feels like a Laker to me. Certainly more than another "possible future breakout star". All you real fans out there: do you really want to be so quick to ship out one of the best elements of last season? He's a good guy and plays his a** off, every game, every play.
Anyway, that's my take, so go ahead and let the bashing begin.
It's my first real post, so please, be gentle.
Rock on, Laker freaks!! |
Welcome aboard, dawg.
And no one's gonna bash you on saying Caron has heart, the dude is solid through and through, but he's not a NEED as much as PF/C is. |
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Whatthef?
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 315
Location: SactownLaker
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject: Wizard Hype |
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| Washington is just trying to put value on a player worth nothing. The Lakers are short on shooting guards and already have projects on the front line. Right now Cook is better than Brown. Brown is only worth a second round pick and they know it, this is just Vescey BS. If Mitch pulls the switch on this I am becoming a Clipper fan. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| maddprophet wrote: |
wingnut-
who would you recommend??
as a pf/c that is?? |
EXACTLY! I see where you're goin' with this, maddP... |
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abeer3
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 4507
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| wingnut wrote: |
JO always had a nasty streak. Kwames fine. We need PRODUCTION. I will take solid role/bench guys for Caron. I dont need expect a stud. I would love Mike James for him |
no offense, wingnut, but i'm glad you're not the lakers gm. mike james? for caron? |
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GuRu
Better Than You
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 29598
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Wizard Hype |
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| Whatthef? wrote: |
| If Mitch pulls the switch on this I am becoming a Clipper fan. |
Well then peace homie. the lakers dont need fans that would jump ship that easily. Cry and switch teams when things dont go your way? You sound like a Clippers fan already....
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I Offered My Honor
She Honored My Offer
And All Night Long
It Was Honor and Offer |
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maddprophet
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Hotlanta, GA.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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being for this trade in no way shape or form is a dis towards caron.
i love the guy. he was great this year, and i believe he will be a phenominal player. unfortunately, we need lo at the 3, so where does caron fit in??
we're not gonna be able to match his offers after next year, so we need to get something for him now. especially since he is the one player with real trade value on this team.
it's strictly business, not personal. caron is great, but like it's been said, he aint controlling the paint for us. kwame will come in and be a presence. he just needs a fresh start and support and guidence.
do not forget who will be guiding this young man from here on out as a laker. :man7:
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Spark the ism, my expertism, is lyricism, my flow will take you over, like I was hypnotism..so where's the lighter.... |
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JediRekal
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 552
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Wizard Hype |
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| Whatthef? wrote: |
| Washington is just trying to put value on a player worth nothing. The Lakers are short on shooting guards and already have projects on the front line. Right now Cook is better than Brown. Brown is only worth a second round pick and they know it, this is just Vescey BS. If Mitch pulls the switch on this I am becoming a Clipper fan. |
How about you just become a clipper fan now. 
Let the TRUE Laker fans support! I'm down with Kwame. We don't need Butler! We need BIGS!!! What if Mitch's only other option is PJ Brown for Caron? Caron's trade value is high on this board because we are Laker fans. Bigs are hard to get! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| abeer3 wrote: |
| wingnut wrote: |
JO always had a nasty streak. Kwames fine. We need PRODUCTION. I will take solid role/bench guys for Caron. I dont need expect a stud. I would love Mike James for him |
no offense, wingnut, but i'm glad you're not the lakers gm. mike james? for caron? |
A guy who plays ridiculous defense. The same guy Larry Brown said he would be missed most this year. A guy that can fill it up. A guy who can play the 1. He is a poor mans JOE JOhnson but with way better D. Your right James for Caron would be a mistake.......for the rockets. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Wizard Hype |
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| Whatthef? wrote: |
| Washington is just trying to put value on a player worth nothing. The Lakers are short on shooting guards and already have projects on the front line. Right now Cook is better than Brown. Brown is only worth a second round pick and they know it, this is just Vescey BS. If Mitch pulls the switch on this I am becoming a Clipper fan. |
and if kwame works out perfect for us. silently u'd be the biggest bandwagoner of all time. caron is not really a sg. jumaine does the same things and he's a much better shooter and possibly better rebounder. in athletic ability they're about the same, caron being slightly quicker.
imma remain neutral for now. anything thats makes us better, even if it hurts my heart to see a favorite leave or pass up on a possible superstar in the making. |
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Savory Griddles
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 6432
Location: AV,CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Sweet. It's only my 20th post and I got like 50 some odd responses! The thing is, all I was asking was if someone could confirm ESPNews saying this. Honestly, I think we are getting had if it's just Butler for Kwame. I don't think Butler is super or anything, but I think we should make sure to get JUan Dixon in the deal as well or something like that. Chucky and Butler for Kwame and Dixon.
Here's what worries me about this trade. This will obviously be done only if Kwame signs a long term deal, meaning we destroy any chance we have at cap space come 2007. Basically all our hopes as Lakers fans for the next 6 years rest on the shoulders of Bynum and Kwame. Any way you look at it, that's the truth. Our rebuilding project centers around two young unproven bigman. It could work out to be a dynasty of epic proportions. It could end up being lottery for 6-7 years.
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abeer3
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 4507
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| wingnut wrote: |
| abeer3 wrote: |
| wingnut wrote: |
JO always had a nasty streak. Kwames fine. We need PRODUCTION. I will take solid role/bench guys for Caron. I dont need expect a stud. I would love Mike James for him |
no offense, wingnut, but i'm glad you're not the lakers gm. mike james? for caron? |
A guy who plays ridiculous defense. The same guy Larry Brown said he would be missed most this year. A guy that can fill it up. A guy who can play the 1. He is a poor mans JOE JOhnson but with way better D. Your right James for Caron would be a mistake.......for the rockets. |
i have no response for that. lunacy. |
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