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strikemode14
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:33 am Post subject: |
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This is for all the people that say we should trade Caron for Kwame here are their stats for last year.
Kwame
PPG 7.0
RPG 4.9
APG .9
SPG .60
BPG .36
FG% .460
FT% .574
3P% .000
MPG 21.6
Caron
PPG 15.5
RPG 5.8
APG 1.9
SPG 1.43
BPG .30
FG% .445
FT% .862
3P% .304
MPG 35.7
Okay I will admit that Caron played more minutes but, dang Caron outrebound Kwame WTF  Kwame is not worth Caron if we do a S&T and get rid of Caron this will be a worse trade then trading Shaq away.
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| LakersR#1 wrote: |
| Sorry to see Caron go if this is true, but if it gets Lamar at SF, and a banger in the PF spot then it is best for the team. |
Am I missing something? What banger do we get?
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| maddprophet wrote: |
| brown has the potential to be a force down low. if this is the best offer on the table for us to improve down low, which we all agree is a priority, then it needs to be done. |
I just have a very hard time believing that when Simmons gets $9.5 million in free agency, the best trade we can get for Caron is Kwame. I am not buying that one bit. No, Caron isn't much, but he + another ending contract or two could get us something much better.
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| maddprophet wrote: |
| not mentioned in all this kwame talk is the ability of phil to get more out of this kid than anyone else has so far. experience wise he should be on the cusp of breaking out, put that with the guidence phil and co. will provide, i believe this kid will really blossom given the chance. |
If MJ couldn't get anything out of Kwame, I doubt Phil can get much out of him. Phil isn't going to hold his hand, which is what this kid needs. He will be Phil's whipping boy, and that's not something he has the mental strength to handle.
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abeer3
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 4468
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| jsm0331 wrote: |
| maddprophet wrote: |
| brown has the potential to be a force down low. if this is the best offer on the table for us to improve down low, which we all agree is a priority, then it needs to be done. |
I just have a very hard time believing that when Simmons gets $9.5 million in free agency, the best trade we can get for Caron is Kwame. I am not buying that one bit. No, Caron isn't much, but he + another ending contract or two could get us something much better. |
i've said it a lot already, but it bears repeating: this deal can only happen if the wizards give up another rotation player, such as dixon, hayes, or jeffries (maybe blake, but that's a stretch). |
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| VerbalMilk wrote: |
| LakersCourt wrote: |
March 17, 2004. Kwame Brown showed what kind of potential this kid has when he "played like a beast" against Sacramento and went for career highs in both points and rebounds, putting up 30 points and pulling down 19 rebounds.  |
Yeah, see...You just CAN'T pass up a chance to get a 7 footer with this much potential. How many athletic 7 footers are the NBA, fellas? |
Kwame has Gumpitis. He has all the tools, but doesn't use them half of the time. And he's lazy. What's the point of having the physical tools and athleticism, if you never use it properly?
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| LakersCourt wrote: |
| I'm telling you. I don't know why this trade can't be done? I personally say Kwame Brown for Caron Butler straight up. |
And I personally say that you must be crazy. Something else of value better be included on the Wizards end, of Mitch gets an F this off season. I don't care how good of a draft he had or if he picks up Daniels and whoever else in fee agency. Only getting Kwame + trash isn't worth it. Hayes has to be included, and either Blatche or Dixon. We can toss them Cook and a resigned Luke or something if they want it.
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLove wrote: |
| caron for kwame and there 06 1st round |
Not worth it. Like I've said, next year's draft class is a very weak one. It makes this past one, seem like the 96 draft.
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| GuRu wrote: |
| Vasashi17 wrote: |
| This just in....... |
After 10 pages of speculation...David Aldridge finally gets word as well. ESPN, always the last to know.... |
But DA isn't with  anymore, remember, he's with TNT. He was basically replaced with Screaming A.
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Kingsama
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| strikemode14 wrote: |
This is for all the people that say we should trade Caron for Kwame here are their stats for last year.
Kwame
PPG 7.0
RPG 4.9
APG .9
SPG .60
BPG .36
FG% .460
FT% .574
3P% .000
MPG 21.6
Caron
PPG 15.5
RPG 5.8
APG 1.9
SPG 1.43
BPG .30
FG% .445
FT% .862
3P% .304
MPG 35.7
Okay I will admit that Caron played more minutes but, dang Caron outrebound Kwame WTF Kwame is not worth Caron if we do a S&T and get rid of Caron this will be a worse trade then trading Shaq away. |
yeah its such a huge deal that in nearly 15 minutes more playing time Caron was able to grab .9 more rebounds than kwame. in per 48 states caron averages 7.9 boards where as kwame averages 10.9. To insinuate that caron is a better rebounder is obsurd.
Now lets look at kwames stats last year, prior to the injuries and further conflicts with the coach.
ppg 10.9
rpg 7.4
apg 1.5
blk .7
spg .9
fg% .48
ft% .68
3p% .500
min 30.3
now i wont sit here and say that those are the most astounding stats i have ever seen, but they were solid for big in his third year, especially one who was mentally castrated by MJ. I would prefer Tyson chander or the latest better than sex rumor of Kmart, but Mitch could do a lot worse than kwame. He could asyily be a 12, and 9 guy in a more supportive enviroment...
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| strikemode14 wrote: |
This is for all the people that say we should trade Caron for Kwame here are their stats for last year.
Kwame
PPG 7.0
RPG 4.9
APG .9
SPG .60
BPG .36
FG% .460
FT% .574
3P% .000
MPG 21.6
Caron
PPG 15.5
RPG 5.8
APG 1.9
SPG 1.43
BPG .30
FG% .445
FT% .862
3P% .304
MPG 35.7
Okay I will admit that Caron played more minutes but, dang Caron outrebound Kwame WTF Kwame is not worth Caron if we do a S&T and get rid of Caron this will be a worse trade then trading Shaq away. |
Bro, those stats are only glaring at the PPG, and we all know Caron became the 2nd option after Odom went down for almost half the season.
But you're also comparing 2 different positions which is a cardinal sin to do.
And the bottomline in all of this is, 6'7 swingmen are a dime-a-dozen in the NBA; 7 foot athletic big men aren't. Take the chance on a 7 footer just in case the dude pans out. The worst that can happen?: Kwame can flop. Getting a 6'7 swingman in the NBA is easy. |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| jsm0331 wrote: |
| VerbalMilk wrote: |
| LakersCourt wrote: |
| March 17, 2004. Kwame Brown showed what kind of potential this kid has when he "played like a beast" against Sacramento and went for career highs in both points and rebounds, putting up 30 points and pulling down 19 rebounds. |
Yeah, see...You just CAN'T pass up a chance to get a 7 footer with this much potential. How many athletic 7 footers are the NBA, fellas? |
Kwame has Gumpitis. He has all the tools, but doesn't use them half of the time. And he's lazy. What's the point of having the physical tools and athleticism, if you never use it properly? |
It's still early in his career. A change of scenery may do the kid some good. You can't pass up a 7 footer with athleticism. How many 7 footers are in the NBA, bro? |
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Kobe Bryant 8
CL's Voice of Reason
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 11965
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| strikemode14 wrote: |
This is for all the people that say we should trade Caron for Kwame here are their stats for last year.
Kwame
PPG 7.0
RPG 4.9
APG .9
SPG .60
BPG .36
FG% .460
FT% .574
3P% .000
MPG 21.6
Caron
PPG 15.5
RPG 5.8
APG 1.9
SPG 1.43
BPG .30
FG% .445
FT% .862
3P% .304
MPG 35.7
Okay I will admit that Caron played more minutes but, dang Caron outrebound Kwame WTF Kwame is not worth Caron if we do a S&T and get rid of Caron this will be a worse trade then trading Shaq away. |
Kwame per 48 minutes...
PPG - 15.4
RPG - 11
46% FG
Caron per 48 minutes...
PPG - 21
RPG - 8
45% FG
You may have an arguement statistically, but Kwame's points come in the PAINT, something we need desperately. Hell, Jumaine is a 15/10 guy per 48, and he is no where near as wanted as Caron. Caron is a great offensive player, but that's not what we need. We need a big body down low, and this could be the best one available this offseason. Caron will be persued heavily at the end of this season, so why let him leave for nothing if we already know a championship isn't coming?
Basically players like Caron are everywhere in the NBA, but a 6'11, 250 pound body with LOADS of potential aren't something you can get this cheaply available. This could be a Jermaine O'Neal type of situation, and in a complete rebuilding stage, I'd take the risk.
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Last edited by Kobe Bryant 8 on Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:52 am; edited 2 times in total |
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lakerfool
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 14688
Location: Somewhere in China jocking Yao
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Here's the one key stat everyone tends to forget
7 feet tall, 250 lbs of raw muscle. If we can ever get him motivated, then we automatically have a solid big for years to come.
If we get Caron motivated, we still have a swingman, in which comes a dime a dozen inthe league
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LakersCourt
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| lakerfool wrote: |
Here's the one key stat everyone tends to forget
7 feet tall, 250 lbs of raw muscle. If we can ever get him motivated, then we automatically have a solid big for years to come.
If we get Caron motivated, we still have a swingman, in which comes a dime a dozen inthe league |
I agree 100% with this assesment.
I do like a trade of Caron Butler and Stanislav Medvedenko for Kwame Brown and Jarvis Hayes, but would Washington be that stupid? Hayes is an excellent 2/3 player and good be an excellent backup for Kobe or Odom. He also would be excellent in the Traingle offense. Plus he has a personality that is easy to get along with, and has a high basketball IQ.
Mitch is GM of the year in my book...if:
Lakers trade:
Caron Butler-F
Stanislav Medvedenko-F
Wasington Trades:
Kwame Brown-F
Jarvis Hayes- G/F
Washington...please be this stupid.....those are your two best potential players on your team(now that Larry Hughes has bolted for Clevland). Please or please Washington....please be this dumb
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lakerfool
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| LakersCourt wrote: |
| lakerfool wrote: |
Here's the one key stat everyone tends to forget
7 feet tall, 250 lbs of raw muscle. If we can ever get him motivated, then we automatically have a solid big for years to come.
If we get Caron motivated, we still have a swingman, in which comes a dime a dozen inthe league |
I agree 100% with this assesment.
I do like a trade of Caron Butler and Stanislav Medvedenko for Kwame Brown and Jarvis Hayes, but would Washington be that stupid? Hayes is an excellent 2/3 player and good be an excellent backup for Kobe or Odom. He also would be excellent in the Traingle offense. Plus he has a personality that is easy to get along with, and has a high basketball IQ.
Mitch is GM of the year in my book...if:
Lakers trade:
Caron Butler-F
Stanislav Medvedenko-F
Wasington Trades:
Kwame Brown-F
Jarvis Hayes- G/F
Washington...please be this stupid.....those are your two best potential players on your team(now that Larry Hughes has bolted for Clevland). Please or please Washington....please be this dumb
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I highly doubt they would do that trade. Fromwhat i understand, they are still high onHayes. But onethey are not too high on is JUAN DIXON. If we can squeeze him by throwing in a future 2nd rounder, I'll do it by all means.
Same w/ Jared Jeffries. a 6-11 sf, 230 lbs, w/ amazing length.
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Johny_Cash
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:17 am Post subject: |
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There is no way in hell I would trade Caron for Kwame. I would however, trade George and Cook for K. Brown. It works for both teams...Washington gets a small forward/shooting guard in Goeorge as well as a big man in Cook and we get our big man. If it doesn't work out for Lakers, we only gave up players that we really didn't want. If it doesn't work out for Washington, they can let George go and use his expiring contract as relief. Both teams will have get potential upside and if it deosn't work out, neither team will get burned for it. |
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LakersCourt
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:21 am Post subject: |
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I'd push for Hayes over Dixon. Hayes is money in the Truangle offesne. Back in January of this year against the Spurs(who play great defense) Hayes went for a career high 27 points, and hit 5 three point baskets during the game.
Yes, Juan Dixon would fill a need, but the Lakers would make out like a bandit if they did this deal. I would even through in Brian Cook, to ease their pain
If the Lakers have any chance of getting Hayes(Kwame and Jarvis were always my two favorite Wizards) we are going to be one DAMN deadly team in the future.
We MUST......I REPEAT MUST aim for Jarvis Hayes to be part of the deal. I can't tell you what this would mean to the Lakers to have this guy.
Last edited by LakersCourt on Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lakerfool
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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Location: Somewhere in China jocking Yao
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| LakersCourt wrote: |
I'd push for Hayes over Dixon. Hayes is money in the Truangle offesne. Back in January of this year against the Spurs(who play great defense) Hayes went for a career high 27 points, and hit 5 three point baskets during the game.
Yes, Juan Dixon would fill a need, but the Lakers would make out like a bandit if they did this deal. I would even through in Brian Cook, to ease their pain
If the Lakers have any chance of getting Hayes(Kwame and Jarvis were always my two favorite Wizards) we are going to be one DAMN deadly team in the future.
We MUST......I REPEAT MUST aim for Jarvis Hayes to be part of the deal. I can't tell you what this would mean to the Lakers to have this guy. |
We'd definately have to throw in a first rounder then
But remember, the Wiz just lost a key G/SF, so they won't move him
dixon is much more likely
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Snake Eyes
Joined: 27 May 2003
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Location: Claremont CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| jsm0331 wrote: |
| LakersR#1 wrote: |
| Sorry to see Caron go if this is true, but if it gets Lamar at SF, and a banger in the PF spot then it is best for the team. |
Am I missing something? What banger do we get? |
Brown is more of a shot blocker that we need that is what I was saying. But Strikemode made some very valid points with his showing of stats.
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LakersCourt
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:29 am Post subject: |
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I don't want DIXON 
I want HAYES   
Well, they have Caron who can play the 2 guard and the 3.. Maybe we could give them Sasha Vujacic if they want a guard so badly.
Lakers trade:
Caron Butler
Sasha Vujacic
Stanislav Medvedenko
Washington trades:
Kwame Brown
Jarvis Hayes
DO IT MITCH |
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Xepa
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Posts: 6677
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:39 am Post subject: |
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What's up with people getting Hayes.  this just in, the Wizards just loss a swingman and are looking to ADD ONE IN BUTLER. Why would they give away one of their best swingmen when they're trading for one. Don't give me that "well we have george/luke" there's a reason why we don't want them, ya think Washington doesn' notice?
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lakerfool
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 14688
Location: Somewhere in China jocking Yao
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| LakersCourt wrote: |
I don't want DIXON
I want HAYES
Well, they have Caron who can play the 2 guard and the 3.. Maybe we could give them Sasha Vujacic if they want a guard so badly.
Lakers trade:
Caron Butler
Sasha Vujacic
Stanislav Medvedenko
Washington trades:
Kwame Brown
Jarvis Hayes
DO IT MITCH |
And I'm telling you, YOU CAN'T GET HAYES. He's pretty much untradeable
So I guess you have to live w/ Dixon 
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lakerfool
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 14688
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| insertwittynamehere wrote: |
| What's up with people getting Hayes. this just in, the Wizards just loss a swingman and are looking to ADD ONE IN BUTLER. Why would they give away one of their best swingmen when they're trading for one. Don't give me that "well we have george/luke" there's a reason why we don't want them, ya think Washington doesn' notice? |
THANK YOU
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| lakerfool wrote: |
Here's the one key stat everyone tends to forget
7 feet tall, 250 lbs of raw muscle. If we can ever get him motivated, then we automatically have a solid big for years to come.
If we get Caron motivated, we still have a swingman, in which comes a dime a dozen inthe league |
but that if is as likely to happen as...if Shaq ever stops talking about the Lakers.
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| insertwittynamehere wrote: |
| What's up with people getting Hayes. this just in, the Wizards just loss a swingman and are looking to ADD ONE IN BUTLER. Why would they give away one of their best swingmen when they're trading for one. Don't give me that "well we have george/luke" there's a reason why we don't want them, ya think Washington doesn' notice? |
Well, if they are unwilling to part with Hayes, then I would accept nothing less than them adding Dixon and Blatche to the deal.
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lakerfool
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| jsm0331 wrote: |
| lakerfool wrote: |
Here's the one key stat everyone tends to forget
7 feet tall, 250 lbs of raw muscle. If we can ever get him motivated, then we automatically have a solid big for years to come.
If we get Caron motivated, we still have a swingman, in which comes a dime a dozen inthe league |
but that if is as likely to happen as...if Shaq ever stops talking about the Lakers. |
Well, he never really had a true mentor in Wash. And actually, in his 3rd season, put up a solid 10 pts, 8 reb, 48% shooting a game. I'd give him a change of scenery and see what he can do, ESPECIALLY if Dixon is included in such a deal
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Xepa
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:22 am Post subject: |
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A Peter Vescey thread going on 12 pages, eh who would have thunk?
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Lakerman JSJ
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| wrote: |
1. Kwame Brown (6-11 240 lbs.) Glynn Academy (HS)
Positives: The most gifted player in the draft, Brown is a great athlete with exceptional basketball skills. He can handle the ball like a guard and has a good-looking stroke from 15 to 17 feet. Brown also has good floor vision and passes extremely well. Brown is currently at his best when he faces up and takes people off the dribble using an excellent crossover dribble. Defensively, Brown is a devastating shotblocker with superb leaping ability, timing and reach. Because of his combination of size, strength and skill, Brown is often compared to Chris Webber and Kevin Garnett. At this point, Brown has a much more NBA-ready physique than Garnett had coming out of high school.
Negatives: Unfortunately, Brown does not enjoy posting up offensively and takes far too many three-pointers. Despite Garnett-level skills, Brown has yet to demonstrate the burning competitiveness that Garnett exhibited at the same stage of development.
Prognosis: Perhaps the best way to describe Kwame Brown is to say that he has the frame and physical skills of an Antonio McDyess and the basketball skills of a young Danny Manning. Brown could develop into a potential franchise player if he works hard on his game. Peak Projection: 22 ppg 10 rpg 4 apg 2.5 bpg |
I pulled this off of a forum in LG which obviously is an assesment of Kwame just after the '01 draft.
Obviously this kid was (and still is) oozing with potential. Now I know that busts happen all the time, but I think its worth a shot to take a strong 6'11" kid with all the tools to be great with Caron Butler who is obviously expendable due to our abundance of swingmen. |
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LakersCourt
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| I have a good hunch that this is going to go through and Kwame will be a Laker |
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