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Tuco
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 116
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: Cut Gasol’s Minutes |
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Since people don’t read post but just skim through them I have given this topic it's own thread.
The coaching staff needs to cut Pau’s minutes back from 42 a game to his season average of 36. We are not getting any added production out of him by extending his time on the floor.
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John3:16
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
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Location: Begging Mitch to trade O Freaking Dumb
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Lakerman JSJ
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
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He had a great game last night. He brings so much to the game with his excellent passing, post moves, and adequate rebounding. He also mixes in some timely shot-blocking.
We would be gaining ZERO advantage by cutting his minutes. If he's not fatigued, he needs to be out there.
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kop5789
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| In the 3 games that he averaged 38, 37, 37 minutes so far in the playoffs, we are NOT getting the same production as when he goes over 40, so your argument doesn't hold. |
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sirronstuff
Bible Belt Laker Fan
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: |
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no defensive rebounds for a 7 footer in 40+ minutes is embarrassing.
I miss Drew. Can't wait to see them together. Lamar is a good rebounder, but we need some help against the better teams. |
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kidvideo
Joined: 14 May 2008
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Kenrae
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 136
Location: Barcelona
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| sirronstuff wrote: |
no defensive rebounds for a 7 footer in 40+ minutes is embarrassing.
I miss Drew. Can't wait to see them together. Lamar is a good rebounder, but we need some help against the better teams. |
Even when he gets 6 offensive rebounds, and constantly boxes out so that his teammates grab the rebounds easily? |
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Tuco
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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...
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"But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
Last edited by Tuco on Thu May 15, 2008 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tuco
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| kop5789 wrote: |
| In the 3 games that he averaged 38, 37, 37 minutes so far in the playoffs, we are NOT getting the same production as when he goes over 40, so your argument doesn't hold. |
What are you talking about? His numbers vs. Utah have not improved with increased minutes. In most cases they have stayed the same or gotten worse.
There are two other centers on the team, put them on the floor and give the guy a breather.
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Tuco
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Cut Gasol’s Minutes |
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| kidvideo wrote: |
| Tuco wrote: |
| Since people don’t read post but just skim through them... |
Are you quoting Jay-Z  ? |
You, my friend, are a real hip hop head 
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"But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco." |
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gcclaker
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 3301
Location: Kashmir
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: A Gasolout? |
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Turiaf being effective in relief minutes will help Gasol who needs to be fresh down the stretch of games. Mbenga should get some time here and there too. Mihm? Why is he even suited up?
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daco_inc
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| We would be gaining ZERO advantage by cutting his minutes. If he's not fatigued, he needs to be out there. |
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Tuco
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| daco_inc wrote: |
| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| We would be gaining ZERO advantage by cutting his minutes. If he's not fatigued, he needs to be out there. |
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Thats the problem, he is fatigued. A blind man in a fog can see it.
He gets the ball in the post leans on Okur for two seconds and kicks it back out.
No attempt to reestablish himself lower on the block.
On defense what little rebounding and boxing out ability he does have goes out the window as his legs get heavy.
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"But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
Last edited by Tuco on Thu May 15, 2008 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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gradymac
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
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Location: cali
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| What's your point man this is play-offs we gotta have are best players on he floor as long as we can. they can rest all they want after the finals |
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Lakerman JSJ
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Tuco wrote: |
| daco_inc wrote: |
| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| We would be gaining ZERO advantage by cutting his minutes. If he's not fatigued, he needs to be out there. |
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Thats the problem, he is fatigued. A blind man in a fog can see it.
He gets the ball in the post leans on Okur for two seconds and kicks it back out.
No attempt to reestablish himself lower on the block.
On defense what little rebounding and boxing out ability he does have goes out the window as his legs get heavy. |
I haven't seen that at all. How do you explain him closing out last night's game so strong then?
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daco_inc
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Fremont, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| Tuco wrote: |
| daco_inc wrote: |
| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| We would be gaining ZERO advantage by cutting his minutes. If he's not fatigued, he needs to be out there. |
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Thats the problem, he is fatigued. A blind man in a fog can see it.
He gets the ball in the post leans on Okur for two seconds and kicks it back out.
No attempt to reestablish himself lower on the block.
On defense what little rebounding and boxing out ability he does have goes out the window as his legs get heavy. |
I haven't seen that at all. How do you explain him closing out last night's game so strong then? |
If that's Pau when he's fatigued, heck, give him all 48 minutes.
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Tuco
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
I haven't seen that at all. How do you explain him closing out last night's game so strong then? |
Pau Gasol’s play in the closing moments of game five were great. He saved the game, maybe the series for the Lakers.
But you have to look at his game has a whole, and for long stretches in this series and last nights game he has been sandbagging it on the floor in order to have something in the tank down the stretch.
Instead of having Pau play 42 minutes cut his time back to 36 per game, what he averaged during the season, and give the extra time to the backup centers. You’ll get the same production out of Pau plus 4 or 5 added rebounds/hustle plays from Mihm/Mbenga.
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daco_inc
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Fremont, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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^
A "fatigued" Gasol >>>> Mbenga/Mihm
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Tuco
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| daco_inc wrote: |
^
A "fatigued" Gasol >>>> Mbenga/Mihm |
Apparently not. His numbers have not gotten better with the added playing time. In fact many have gotten worse.
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Xepa
Joined: 11 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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In Phil I trust.
Dang, I just looked at Pau's numbers and saw he's averaging 20 pts, 8 reb, 4.5 assists, 3 blks on 60% shooting! Contrast that to Kwame's 5pts/6boards!
Just my .02
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daco_inc
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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^^
It's more than just stats. His presence on the offensive end demands attention, and with his superior recognition and passing skills, he has gotten cutters a lot of easy baskets. On the defensive end, he's not playing DPoY defense, but he's holding his own down there. I have yet to see his minutes hurting this team.
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kop5789
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Tuco wrote: |
| kop5789 wrote: |
| In the 3 games that he averaged 38, 37, 37 minutes so far in the playoffs, we are NOT getting the same production as when he goes over 40, so your argument doesn't hold. |
What are you talking about? His numbers vs. Utah have not improved with increased minutes. In most cases they have stayed the same or gotten worse.
There are two other centers on the team, put them on the floor and give the guy a breather. |
Maybe because Utah is bit of a bad matchup for him? You can't assume that his numbers will be better than his regular season average in every round. To see whether he's getting fatigued, in this series, his numbers have been better in the 4 games when he played over 40 minutes than the one game he played under, and that game was a home game. |
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kop5789
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Tuco wrote: |
| daco_inc wrote: |
| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| We would be gaining ZERO advantage by cutting his minutes. If he's not fatigued, he needs to be out there. |
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Thats the problem, he is fatigued. A blind man in a fog can see it.
He gets the ball in the post leans on Okur for two seconds and kicks it back out.
No attempt to reestablish himself lower on the block.
On defense what little rebounding and boxing out ability he does have goes out the window as his legs get heavy. |
He was fresh at the start of game 3, and that didn't help him backing up anyone. Pau is not a banger. He's not a guy that needs to be at full energy to be effective. Most of the time, he's out there cleaning up misses, making and receiving passes, not banging in the low post and trying to create his own shots. |
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Joe_Blow
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 1799
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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It's the playoffs... rotations tighten.
Whether a player's individual stats per 48 are better or worse are irrelevant. If he gives us the best chance of winning while on the floor, he's on the floor.
From a casual observer's point of view, he sure did look quite good running the floor in transition near the end of the game... outrunning the entire Jazz team.
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Tha Game
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 980
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| daco_inc wrote: |
| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| We would be gaining ZERO advantage by cutting his minutes. If he's not fatigued, he needs to be out there. |
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kop5789
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe_Blow wrote: |
It's the playoffs... rotations tighten.
Whether a player's individual stats per 48 are better or worse are irrelevant. If he gives us the best chance of winning while on the floor, he's on the floor.
From a casual observer's point of view, he sure did look quite good running the floor in transition near the end of the game... outrunning the entire Jazz team. |
Yup, even in the regular season, you'll see Phil extending Kobe's minutes whenever it's a "big" game. That's proof that tightening your rotation is almost always better(the exception is when you have strong backups that can outperform starters when they're a little tired, which we don't, if we do, it should be evident anyway.) Now you don't do that for 82 games because the risk for injuries increases by doing that, but you can't worry about that in the playoffs. |
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Tuco
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| kop5789 wrote: |
Maybe because Utah is bit of a bad matchup for him? You can't assume that his numbers will be better than his regular season average in every round. To see whether he's getting fatigued, in this series, his numbers have been better in the 4 games when he played over 40 minutes than the one game he played under, and that game was a home game. |
How do you figure? In the four games against Utah that Gasol logged over 40 minutes his average is: 19ppg 6.7rpg 4.5ast 3bpg.
His one game were he played under 40 minutes statistics were: 18 points 10 reb 5 ast 2 blks.
The numbers look almost identical to me. But here is the part that your overlooking, when you get fatigued one of the first things to fail, along with your motor, skills is your decision making ability.
Pau’s turnover rate in the three games that he played less then 40 minutes during the playoff is a paltry .66 per game.
In the six games over 40 minutes 3 turnovers per game.
Is he fatigued?
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bokeron
Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 107
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de la Porciúncula
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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[wrong thread, deleted]
Last edited by bokeron on Thu May 15, 2008 1:21 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Joe_Blow
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 1799
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Tuco wrote: |
| Is he fatigued? |
You're missing the point. It's not about whether or not he's fatigued -- they're all fatigued. It's about whether or not him being on the floor -- fatigued or not -- gives us a better chance to win.
The only reason Utah is in this series AT ALL is because their bench has consistently outplayed our bench, yet you want to give our bench "more" time?
Look at Ronny & Mbengas minutes/stats over "this" Utah series and tell me exactly why you want either of 'em playing more minutes. Makes no sense... it's a forest for the trees argument at best.
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drage
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| no. |
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