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Bones
Joined: 04 Oct 2007
Posts: 118
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 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: Jason Kidd traded to the Mavs (details on p. 50) |
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Jason Kidd doesn't want to work here anymore.
The foundation of the Nets' franchise throughout this decade won't come right out and say it, nor does he have to, because he has an agent who can say it for him.
And that agent, Jeff Schwartz, recently asked Nets president Rod Thorn to move his client to a contender before next month's trade deadline, according to several league officials who cannot be identified without betraying confidences.
Thorn would not comment when asked about the request, but it is becoming increasingly clear he may not be able to grant it even if he wanted to.
The primary reason: The Nets are extremely vulnerable now, and they have learned that they cannot get anything close to resembling a fair deal for a 34-year-old point guard making $20 million, even if he is still capable of performing on a Hall of Fame level.
"Right now things are going very poorly for us," Thorn said, without specifically addressing the Kidd conundrum. "Historically, those are the times when you don't get offered what you might consider fair deals. And sometimes you feel that maybe you should do something to do something, but those are the times you have to be very cognizant and careful about what the results of your actions might be."
Various general managers around the league said this past week that Thorn is handcuffed by roster and payroll circumstances.
That doesn't resolve Thorn's chief problem if he actually wants to pursue a trade. According to his peers, Thorn is likely to get nothing that approximates Kidd's value to the Nets -- only expiring contracts belonging to expendable veterans and lottery-protected draft picks.
The last time Kidd was being shopped around -- last February -- Thorn couldn't find a single deal that included a young talent that could be a part of the Nets' foundation, as the Lakers wisely refused to put Andrew Bynum on the table.
One year later, the Nets are in the same situation they face year after year: Their stars aren't as consistent as they are paid to be. And the most alarming sign has emerged during this road trip, where Kidd has had several performances that were well below his All-Star standard, getting outplayed by the likes of Sam Cassell, Steve Nash, Mike Bibby, and Baron Davis.
"He's tired of what the team has become, and it shows," said one friend of Kidd's, remaining anonymous so as not to be critical of the Nets' captain. "And I doubt even an extension would make him happy at this point." |
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From grumblings to headaches forcing him out of a game, Jason Kidd has gone the final step and had his agent asked for a trade before the deadline. Indiana waited too long to trade O'neal and now cannot get equal value for him. Have the Nets done the same? Who would trade equal value nowadays for Kidd who has been in the league for a long time and earns a big contract?
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JamrockLakaFan
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 1650
Location: Kgn,Jamaica
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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I honestly do see what we can give at this point Im more than happy with Fisher/Farmer.
I would give up Luke/Mihm/Critten/Vlad/Sasha a combination of those Kwame at this moment is our best center - while we await Bynum and its good to have them both their.
luke/mihm/critten/vlad/sasha is what i say and a first to seal it nothing else
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West
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 919
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| JamrockLakaFan wrote: |
I honestly do see what we can give at this point Im more than happy with Fisher/Farmer.
I would give up Luke/Mihm/Critten/Vlad/Sasha a combination of those Kwame at this moment is our best center - while we await Bynum and its good to have them both their.
luke/mihm/critten/vlad/sasha is what i say and a first to seal it nothing else |
For Kidd Mitch would need to move either Farmar/Crit & Kwame +? LAL are out of Ks unless NJ is willing to take back Vlad.
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dvdrdiscs
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 764
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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kwame + odom + luke + critt + #1 for Kidd + Boone + Jefferson
Time to
fleece the nets |
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Larry14r
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 882
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Message to Kidd, and Nets leave us alone already because not trading for him. |
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West
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 919
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| dvdrdiscs wrote: |
kwame + odom + luke + critt + #1 for Kidd + Boone + Jefferson
Time to
fleece the nets |
LAL best offer should be LO, Kwame & Farmar for Kidd, Collins.
NJ does this to move Kidd and dump Collins, they also get quality starters in LO & Farmar.
LAL does this to dump LO who is not a fit and to get Kidd, they have to take a bad K Collins. Collins doesn't look so bad when you compare him to Kwame and know that he will back-up Drew in another 6 weeks. Farmar should be moved over Crit as Farmar will waste away behind Kidd/Fisher while Crit will have a year or 2 to mature and then step in as Kidd/Fish is declining.
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cardom
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| No Farmar. He's untouchable. The guy has ice in his veins, exactly what we need in players. |
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darkice18
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 982
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: |
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trade vlade and sasha to miami for jason williams (expiring K)
trade kwame + Jason wiliiams + Mihm + Luke + 2008 and 2010 1st round picks for Jason Kidd and Josh Boone.
Why Nets? They get a lot of relief in the cap thanks to kwame, jason and mihm. The nets get Richard Jefferson's best friend Luuuuke to keep him calm there for now and two 1st rounders....for a 34 year old kidd...and an unproven player in josh boone.
Kidd
Kobe
Lamar
Boone
Bynum
Farmar/karl
Fisher/Javaris
Ariza
Ronny
DJ/ or other?
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KB24@CL
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: |
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I would not trade Farmar for Kidd but maybe thats just me...
we have a core here for the future with Farmar, Crittenton, Bynum, Ariza, Turiaf..
we aren't and should't screw the entire depth for an almost 35 year old player that makes 20 mio.
We don't need an upgrade at point...why does nobody understand that? We need a forward, a quality forward...
right now I wouldn't trade Odom for Kidd either...because our PG rotation is fine...our forwards suck monkey balls and thats where we need to ship them out and get fresh blood.
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MyKRo
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| I'll give them anything they want except: Farmar, D-Fish, Kobe, Bynum |
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deal
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 831
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Don't think LA will part with Farmar with what they have seen to date. He is probably a young next to be a Kidd type player.
LA really needs a PF, don't know if going after Kidd is more nice than needed...
but again, I'm usually wrong, lol... |
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crucifixion
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 3922
Location: Posting at CL from my phone while at Staples
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Thorn is one of those stubborn GM's like Walsh and Petrie.
They don't believe in rebuilding
They believe in winning on the fly
They believe if they are trading their HOF/All star talent, they are expecting something fair in return
So Kidd won't be moved unless its for an all star type talent. Most likely it will be to Dallas for Terry (Harris is off limits I think)
So if the Lakers are interested, its going to be an Odom led package.
No Kwame/Farmar led package
Remember, last year, Thorn wanted a Kwame/Farmar AND Bynum package
These guys want to rebuild on the fly and when trading they dont trade bad contracts for good contracts
I say, lets expand the deal if they want Odom, give them Vlad or Luke and take back Vince or RJ
Something like
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~3002~549~617~1016~2990~1006~429~498&teams=17~17~17~17~17~13~13~13~13&te=&cash=
But thats too many players. Because we get rid of Vlad, the increase of RJ's salary past 2010 isn't too much more. If the cap is at $60M, we can have at least $40M in salary and can use that $20M under the cap for LeBron / filler
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halekulani
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 5834
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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LA won't part with farmar and dfish is unmovable
ugh. |
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Mr. Bryant
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Kidd debacle has come and gone next. Sorry Kidd LA does not need you. |
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Shadow
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 5707
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: |
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I know we are talking about Jason Kidd, but I wouldnt want to give up none of our future young players. Im sorry but I rather wait than to bust out a Miami Heat. This is the only trade I would probably do.
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bumrusherer
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 8748
Location: Neverland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
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I want Kidd, but at this time, only for nostalgic reasons.
Farmar is clearly the future in that position and he needs the 20-25 mpg now.
That being said, I hope the Nets do waht he asks and trade him to a good team. He deserves a ring.
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2Pacalypse
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| KB24@CL wrote: |
I would not trade Farmar for Kidd but maybe thats just me...
we have a core here for the future with Farmar, Crittenton, Bynum, Ariza, Turiaf..
we aren't and should't screw the entire depth for an almost 35 year old player that makes 20 mio.
We don't need an upgrade at point...why does nobody understand that? We need a forward, a quality forward...
right now I wouldn't trade Odom for Kidd either...because our PG rotation is fine...our forwards suck monkey balls and thats where we need to ship them out and get fresh blood. |
Good post!
Our future is set with our core players. The Lakers aren't trading Farmar or Critt. Why should the Lakers try to make a deal with New Jersey after they screwed us last season by asking for Bynum in the last minute?
The Lakers should be looking for front court players. We need a good quality power forward. (Hopefully 2-way)
I would only trade picks, expiring contracts, and Luke/Vlad for Kidd. |
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West
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 919
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Nissan wrote: |
| KB24@CL wrote: |
I would not trade Farmar for Kidd but maybe thats just me...
we have a core here for the future with Farmar, Crittenton, Bynum, Ariza, Turiaf..
we aren't and should't screw the entire depth for an almost 35 year old player that makes 20 mio.
We don't need an upgrade at point...why does nobody understand that? We need a forward, a quality forward...
right now I wouldn't trade Odom for Kidd either...because our PG rotation is fine...our forwards suck monkey balls and thats where we need to ship them out and get fresh blood. |
Good post!
Our future is set with our core players. The Lakers aren't trading Farmar or Critt. Why should the Lakers try to make a deal with New Jersey after they screwed us last season by asking for Bynum in the last minute?
The Lakers should be looking for front court players. We need a good quality power forward. (Hopefully 2-way)
I would only trade picks, expiring contracts, and Luke/Vlad for Kidd. |
What would Kobe say to Farmar being a deal breaker for Kidd???
"Are you kidding me? This is Jason Kidd we're talking about."
By dealing one of your 2 point young point guards your future remains stable and you make a run at a ring while Kobe is still in his prime. It doesn't get any better then this! Kidd (much like KG) is the guy you make your best offer for, but (unlike KG) you don't offer the house.
Again LO, Kwame, Farmer for Kidd, Collins should be the LAL best (take it or leave it) offer imo.
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Andrew Evenstar
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 4653
Location: Ventura, California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Nissan wrote: |
| KB24@CL wrote: |
I would not trade Farmar for Kidd but maybe thats just me...
we have a core here for the future with Farmar, Crittenton, Bynum, Ariza, Turiaf..
we aren't and should't screw the entire depth for an almost 35 year old player that makes 20 mio.
We don't need an upgrade at point...why does nobody understand that? We need a forward, a quality forward...
right now I wouldn't trade Odom for Kidd either...because our PG rotation is fine...our forwards suck monkey balls and thats where we need to ship them out and get fresh blood. |
Good post!
Our future is set with our core players. The Lakers aren't trading Farmar or Critt. Why should the Lakers try to make a deal with New Jersey after they screwed us last season by asking for Bynum in the last minute?
The Lakers should be looking for front court players. We need a good quality power forward. (Hopefully 2-way)
I would only trade picks, expiring contracts, and Luke/Vlad for Kidd. |
Agreed. At this time, I'm not even trading Farmar. Only trade for kid if it brings us a big back too.
I'd give up luke, kwame, coby carl, and vlad or sasha.
And honestly I'm liking Sasha's play more and more everyday. He's cheaper than vlad too. I think we're set at small forward for the next 10 years with Ariza.
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Last edited by Andrew Evenstar on Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lakurluv
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: |
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I say the best way we can get the deal done to bring us JKidd, we do it. There are sooo many scenarios we could review, but whatever it takes we should do it. I'm sure there are a couple of different options that would allow us to maintain our core, and get Kidd.
It seems as though the Nets are finally feed up enough to want to make a move, they realize that there is not much of a chance in them getting an Impact Player for JKidd.
Cap relief should be their expectation.
Do it Mitch, Do it now, the longer we wait, the less chance we will have.
IMO JKidd gets us to the finals with our core intact!
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Larry14r
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 882
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| crucifixion wrote: |
Thorn is one of those stubborn GM's like Walsh and Petrie.
They don't believe in rebuilding
They believe in winning on the fly
They believe if they are trading their HOF/All star talent, they are expecting something fair in return
So Kidd won't be moved unless its for an all star type talent. Most likely it will be to Dallas for Terry (Harris is off limits I think)
So if the Lakers are interested, its going to be an Odom led package.
No Kwame/Farmar led package
Remember, last year, Thorn wanted a Kwame/Farmar AND Bynum package
These guys want to rebuild on the fly and when trading they dont trade bad contracts for good contracts
I say, lets expand the deal if they want Odom, give them Vlad or Luke and take back Vince or RJ
Something like
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~3002~549~617~1016~2990~1006~429~498&teams=17~17~17~17~17~13~13~13~13&te=&cash=
But thats too many players. Because we get rid of Vlad, the increase of RJ's salary past 2010 isn't too much more. If the cap is at $60M, we can have at least $40M in salary and can use that $20M under the cap for LeBron / filler |
Actually they want to keep their players away from us. |
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Larry14r
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 882
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| West wrote: |
| Nissan wrote: |
| KB24@CL wrote: |
I would not trade Farmar for Kidd but maybe thats just me...
we have a core here for the future with Farmar, Crittenton, Bynum, Ariza, Turiaf..
we aren't and should't screw the entire depth for an almost 35 year old player that makes 20 mio.
We don't need an upgrade at point...why does nobody understand that? We need a forward, a quality forward...
right now I wouldn't trade Odom for Kidd either...because our PG rotation is fine...our forwards suck monkey balls and thats where we need to ship them out and get fresh blood. |
Good post!
Our future is set with our core players. The Lakers aren't trading Farmar or Critt. Why should the Lakers try to make a deal with New Jersey after they screwed us last season by asking for Bynum in the last minute?
The Lakers should be looking for front court players. We need a good quality power forward. (Hopefully 2-way)
I would only trade picks, expiring contracts, and Luke/Vlad for Kidd. |
What would Kobe say to Farmar being a deal breaker for Kidd???
"Are you kidding me? This is Jason Kidd we're talking about."
By dealing one of your 2 point young point guards your future remains stable and you make a run at a ring while Kobe is still in his prime. It doesn't get any better then this! Kidd (much like KG) is the guy you make your best offer for, but (unlike KG) you don't offer the house.
Again LO, Kwame, Farmer for Kidd, Collins should be the LAL best (take it or leave it) offer imo. |
No thank you. |
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Vasashi17
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 9987
Location: Reppin' the Golden (& Purple) State - From Da Bay to LA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Am I missing something?
Farmar is the deal breaker with some of you guys, for Jason freakin Kidd? 
Not dealing a big like Drew for an aging PG makes sense.
But not dealing a guard like Jordan for an aging, yet durable and still one of the top PGs in the league makes zero sense.
I love Farmar's game and I love how he has developed. He's a ball player and there is no doubt about that.
But let's think this through:
Kidd's D exceeds Farmar's and its not even close.
Can you say best rebounding team in the L?
Can you say best assisting team in the L?
2nd chance points for the opposition go right out the door, cause once that ball comes off the rim, we secure the defensive boards at nearly every position.
Remember that with Kidd, less ball dribbling by Kobe. With Kobe being exclusively a striker in the offense through pick and pops and Kidd setting him up, Kobe can now put alot more energy into shut down D from the perimeter. Remember Team USA Kobe? Yeah, he would be back.
Not only do you see pick n rolls with Kobe and Drew, but now you see them with Kidd and anybody.
Alot of folks are concerned about our front-line situation after a Kidd deal. We already have DJ and remember that Webb is still sitting there looking for work. Could it be, that he wants to see how this Kidd thing turns out before he makes his choice? Also we can call Lasme up from the D-League.
I've said it before and I'll say it again....Kidd or bust!
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Larry14r
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 882
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| lakurluv wrote: |
I say the best way we can get the deal done to bring us JKidd, we do it. There are sooo many scenarios we could review, but whatever it takes we should do it. I'm sure there are a couple of different options that would allow us to maintain our core, and get Kidd.
It seems as though the Nets are finally feed up enough to want to make a move, they realize that there is not much of a chance in them getting an Impact Player for JKidd.
Cap relief should be their expectation.
Do it Mitch, Do it now, the longer we wait, the less chance we will have.
IMO JKidd gets us to the finals with our core intact!
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We had no chance for Kidd to being with, and besides we still won't win as long as Duncan is still playing. |
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Larry14r
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 882
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Vasashi17 wrote: |
Am I missing something?
Farmar is the deal breaker with some of you guys, for Jason freakin Kidd?
Not dealing a big like Drew for an aging PG makes sense.
But not dealing a guard like Jordan for an aging, yet durable and still one of the top PGs in the league makes zero sense.
I love Farmar's game and I love how he has developed. He's a ball player and there is no doubt about that.
But let's think this through:
Kidd's D exceeds Farmar's and its not even close.
Can you say best rebounding team in the L?
Can you say best assisting team in the L?
2nd chance points for the opposition go right out the door, cause once that ball comes off the rim, we secure the defensive boards at nearly every position.
Remember that with Kidd, less ball dribbling by Kobe. With Kobe being exclusively a striker in the offense through pick and pops and Kidd setting him up, Kobe can now put alot more energy into shut down D from the perimeter. Remember Team USA Kobe? Yeah, he would be back.
Not only do you see pick n rolls with Kobe and Drew, but now you see them with Kidd and anybody.
Alot of folks are concerned about our front-line situation after a Kidd deal. We already have DJ and remember that Webb is still sitting there looking for work. Could it be, that he wants to see how this Kidd thing turns out before he makes his choice? Also we can call Lasme up from the D-League.
I've said it before and I'll say it again....Kidd or bust! |
I don't care, and besides he deserves to be misible in Jersey especially after what Throm put us through. |
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westcoast21
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 3630
Location: Ariza's Asylum
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Hate to say this but theres a certain team thats looking for a veteran PG. Boston Celtics anyone? I hope they dont get Kidd because you could hand them the championship if he does go there.
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GameTimeLaker
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2036
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: |
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lol@not trading Farmar as the deal breaker for Kidd.
We would still have Critt, and would add automatic assists, rebounding, and defense to our back court. Sorry, but you gotta be kidding me.
Farmar/Kwame/Vlad should get it done.
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Shadow
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 5707
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Vasashi I see were your coming from. I wouldnt mind giving up Farmar for Kidd, but no way in hell would I give up Farmar, J-Critt, Turiaf & Kwame for Kidd. Thats just giving up too much for someone that would probably only get us one championship, something that we wouldnt want to do, Miami did it for Shaq, and look at the results. One championship, then mediocracy hit big time. |
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Larry14r
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 882
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| westcoast21 wrote: |
| Hate to say this but theres a certain team thats looking for a veteran PG. Boston Celtics anyone? I hope they dont get Kidd because you could hand them the championship if he does go there. |
Even if that happens they still won't win because the West will kill them. |
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Radner
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11391
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Larry14r wrote: |
| Vasashi17 wrote: |
Am I missing something?
Farmar is the deal breaker with some of you guys, for Jason freakin Kidd?
Not dealing a big like Drew for an aging PG makes sense.
But not dealing a guard like Jordan for an aging, yet durable and still one of the top PGs in the league makes zero sense.
I love Farmar's game and I love how he has developed. He's a ball player and there is no doubt about that.
But let's think this through:
Kidd's D exceeds Farmar's and its not even close.
Can you say best rebounding team in the L?
Can you say best assisting team in the L?
2nd chance points for the opposition go right out the door, cause once that ball comes off the rim, we secure the defensive boards at nearly every position.
Remember that with Kidd, less ball dribbling by Kobe. With Kobe being exclusively a striker in the offense through pick and pops and Kidd setting him up, Kobe can now put alot more energy into shut down D from the perimeter. Remember Team USA Kobe? Yeah, he would be back.
Not only do you see pick n rolls with Kobe and Drew, but now you see them with Kidd and anybody.
Alot of folks are concerned about our front-line situation after a Kidd deal. We already have DJ and remember that Webb is still sitting there looking for work. Could it be, that he wants to see how this Kidd thing turns out before he makes his choice? Also we can call Lasme up from the D-League.
I've said it before and I'll say it again....Kidd or bust! |
I don't care, and besides he deserves to be misible in Jersey especially after what Throm put us through. |
What exactly did he put you through? 
Like already stated, Farmar should not be the deal breaker in a Kidd trade. As long as we have Bynum and Kobe, what exactly are people complaining about? |
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