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Basketball Fan
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 Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: Senator wants destruction of Spygate Tapes explained |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/sp...64a&ei=5087%0A
I hate the Pats as much as the next person but what is the point of this? I mean first Steroids now this shouldn't our government be more concered with issues that actually affect the country not the sports world? |
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Satan
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
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Location: Fist in the air in the land of hypocricy.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. We're at war. You have time to worry about football? What a joke this government is.
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Following the rights movements you clamped on with your iron fists, drugs became conveniently available for all the kids, Following the rights movements you clamped on with your iron fists, drugs became conveniently available for all the kids - System of a Down, Prison Song
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Satan wrote: |
| I agree. We're at war. You have time to worry about football? What a joke this government is. |
Sad state of affairs here my friend... |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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The plot thickens
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/f...icleid=1070762
| Quote: |
Source: Pats employee filmed Rams
By John Tomase
Saturday, February 2, 2008 -
PHOENIX - One night before the Patriots [team stats] face the Giants in Super Bowl XLII, new allegations have emerged about a Patriots employee taping the Rams’ final walkthrough before Super Bowl XXXVI.
According to a source, a member of the team’s video department filmed the Rams’ final walkthrough before that 2002 game. The next day, the Patriots upset St. Louis, 20-17, on a last-second field goal by Adam Vinatieri for their first championship.
A walkthrough involves practicing plays at reduced speed without contact or pads. It is common for teams to film their own walkthroughs and practices.
When contacted last night, Patriots vice president of media relations Stacey James said: “The coaches have no knowledge of it.”
Yesterday, Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) stated that he plans to summon NFL commissioner Roger Goodell before Congress to explain why he destroyed tapes that showed the Patriots stealing defensive signals over the last two years.
After his state of the NFL press conference yesterday, Goodell was asked if the league’s investigation into the Pats included allegations that they recorded the Rams walkthrough in 2002.
“I’m not aware of that,” Goodell said.
“We have no information on that,” seconded NFL spokesman Greg Aiello.
According to a source close to the team during the 2001 season, here’s what happened. On Feb. 2, 2002, one day before the Patriots’ Super Bowl game against heavily favored St. Louis in New Orleans, the Patriots visited the Superdome for their final walkthrough.
After completing the walkthrough, they had their team picture taken and the Rams then took the field. According to the source, a member of the team’s video staff stayed behind after attending the team’s walkthrough and filmed St. Louis’ walkthrough.
At no point was he asked to identify himself or produce a press pass, the source said. The cameraman rode the media shuttle back to the hotel with news photographers when the Rams walkthrough was completed, the source said.
It’s not known what the cameraman did with the tape from there. It’s also not known if he made the recording on his own initiative or if he was instructed to make the recording by someone with the Patriots or anyone else.
The next day, the Patriots opened a 14-3 halftime lead on the Rams, who were 14-point favorites and operators of an offense known as “The Greatest Show on Turf.”
The Rams didn’t begin moving the ball until the fourth quarter, when their 14-point rally pulled the teams into a 17-17 tie with less than two minutes remaining. Tom Brady [stats] then led the most famous drive in Patriots history for the winning field goal.
The Patriots were fined $750,000 and docked a first-round draft pick for breaking league policy and filming the Jets’ defensive signals from the sideline in September.
Asked yesterday if he believed the Pats used similar films to achieve their three Super Bowl victories, Goodell was adamant.
Specter looms over NFL on eve of Super Sunday
“No,” he said. “There was no indication that it benefited them in any of the Super Bowl victories.” |
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Lakerman JSJ
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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^There are no words. 
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Satan
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
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Location: Fist in the air in the land of hypocricy.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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I say we go ahead and put an asterisk by all of this Patriot team's accomplishments for the last few years.
Still doesn't need politicians involved though.
_________________
Following the rights movements you clamped on with your iron fists, drugs became conveniently available for all the kids, Following the rights movements you clamped on with your iron fists, drugs became conveniently available for all the kids - System of a Down, Prison Song
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LaLaKeRz4LiFe
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
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Location: From the Bay to LA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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 F u Pats.
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Moises
Joined: 08 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Politicians want to give involved due to the mass amount of money involved in sports. The Cheaters went undefeated generating mad cash benefitting tons of people. If the Cheaters were a 8-8 team no one would care as much. |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Moises wrote: |
| Politicians want to give involved due to the mass amount of money involved in sports. The Cheaters went undefeated generating mad cash benefitting tons of people. If the Cheaters were a 8-8 team no one would care as much. |
Basically and in this case Specter is also bitter Eagles fan. |
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dodgers33089
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Kurt Warner speaks..
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3227592
| Quote: |
Ex-Ram Warner wants NFL to expand probe of Patriots
By Mike Fish
ESPN.com
Looking back, quarterback Kurt Warner says Super Bowl XXXVI in New Orleans is a blur. The underdog New England Patriots simply outschemed Warner's St. Louis Rams, parading out six and at times seven defensive backs and roughing up the Rams' sleek receivers to slow down an offense then dubbed "The Greatest Show on Turf." St. Louis, Warner says, just got beat. The final score read 20-17. That result can't be changed.
But for peace of mind, the two-time MVP wants the league to investigate reports that the Patriots might have benefited from a videotape of the Rams' final practice before that Super Bowl six years ago.
In the latest flurry of news surrounding the Patriots' videotaping activities, a report in Saturday's Boston Herald indicated that a member of the Patriots' video staff might have filmed the Rams' final walk-through in the Superdome the day before the game. The story cited a lone source, described as someone close to the New England team that season.
[+] EnlargeAP Photo/Tony Gutierrez
Kurt Warner's career hasn't been the same since he walked off the field as the losing quarterback in Super Bowl XXXVI.
Rumors of the Super Bowl videotaping incident first circulated shortly after the "Spygate" affair this past September, in which a Patriots employee was caught taping the New York Jets' signals from the sideline, although ESPN.com has been unable to confirm the rumors. Matt Walsh, a former Patriots video assistant who has suggested he has information potentially embarrassing to the team and the league, has refused comment on whether he played a part in the alleged Super Bowl taping in February 2002.
"Really, it is nothing that I care to go on the record about or talk about," Walsh recently told ESPN.com.
Warner, who since has moved on to the Arizona Cardinals, was surprised to learn the league didn't speak to Walsh during its investigation of Spygate.
"It is obvious that it wasn't as thorough as it could have been," Warner says of the league's probe. "I don't have any information on why they didn't talk to him or how far back they went, but just knowing that there was somebody that was involved in that [video department], and he wasn't talked to or they didn't go back that far -- I guess it is disappointing. You would think that if they do an investigation for the integrity of the game, that they would try to do everything possible. And maybe they did, and they just missed it. But as a purist and someone who wants to see the integrity of the game stay where it is, it is a little disappointing that they didn't [look] under every rock to figure this out and to do something to make sure it doesn't happen again."
Warner spoke to ESPN.com about the rumors of Super Bowl spying before the Herald's story appeared. He did not return calls Saturday.
Reached late Saturday afternoon, Mike Martz, now the offensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers but the head coach for the Rams in that Super Bowl, told ESPN.com: "I hope that is not true. I have great respect for Bill Belichick. It's hard to believe that is true. It's a serious allegation and I hope it is not true.
"Obviously, if there is enough substance to it, the league should look into it.''
According to the Rams' itinerary from Super Bowl XXXVI, the team took the Superdome turf at 12:45 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 2, 2002, for its final practice, which came after the Patriots had completed their walk-through. The Rams were scheduled to take a team picture at 1:30, eat a box lunch at the stadium at 2 and catch buses back to the team hotel at 2:15.
Warner says he remembers little from the walk-through, other than that the offense ran some of its red zone plays.
Even if that practice had been taped and was available to the Patriots, the advantage might not have been significant, as the Rams weren't in position to use their red zone offense until the fourth quarter.
St. Louis had seven plays inside the Patriots' 30-yard line in the final quarter. At one point, New England stopped the Rams on four successive plays inside the 3-yard line. A holding penalty gave the Rams another play, and, after a timeout, they scored on a quarterback sneak by Warner -- a play that had not been part of Saturday's walk-through but was called by Martz on the sideline.
[+] EnlargeMike Fish, ESPN.com
Former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh has refused to address the question of his possible role in alleged surreptitious taping.
"It was really just us having some troubles putting the ball in the end zone," Warner says. "We stuck this play in because we had success with it before."
Warner says his suspicions about the Patriots surfaced only after they were busted for cheating this past September.
"Again, they had a great game plan," Warner says of the Patriots' performance in Super Bowl XXXVI. "Coach [Bill] Belichick has been known for that. They executed it very well. And I think you look back from our side and say, 'Well, we had played them once [that] year. They had a good feel for what we were doing and how to stop us. I go back and look at that game and say, 'The approach they took with us is that we're going to beat them up and beat them up and beat them up until the officials make a call.' And I think they went in with a premise that in a Super Bowl, the officials don't want to dictate the course of action. So they're going to be slow to throw flags, especially a bunch of flags.
"At the same time, I think everybody wonders to what extent did they [illegally tape opponents]? Was this something that was just done on game day, or was it something they did throughout the week? [Did] they go to practice facilities? And I think that is the question. And I think that is the unfortunate question, because New England has done a tremendous job. They have been very good for a long time.
"But anytime you have something like this go on, and you get caught doing that, it raises questions. And I think rightfully so. I mean, to what degree did this go on? To what degree did this help them? For how long did it help them? Those are natural questions that you ask when somebody gets caught doing something like this. It does go through your mind. And then, at the same time, as a player, you say, 'OK, even if they had our signals, how much would it help?'"
Warner suggests New England would tape opponents' defensive signals from the sidelines, as it was caught doing against the Jets this season, to decode the communications and file them away for a future game against the same team. If the coaches know the defensive signals, he says, they can filter information to the quarterback through the headset in his helmet, which shuts off with 15 seconds left on the play clock.
"If teams kept their signals the same, then you could get a bead on them and be able to have that information," Warner says. "It would be a distinct advantage."
Drew Bledsoe, the backup to Patriots quarterback Tom Brady in that Super Bowl, told ESPN.com he does not know if the Patriots stole signals or taped the walk-through for that title game.
"No, I don't recall anything that would be suspicious for that game," Bledsoe says. "If that happened during that game, I didn't know about it."
Drew Bledsoe, Tom Brady's backup in Super Bowl XXXVI, says he isn't aware of any foul play.
Bledsoe also says a coach -- typically the offensive coordinator -- communicating with the quarterback doesn't have time to offer much more than the play call.
"If there is something that they saw that they can give me, give the quarterback, in two words, they'll do it," Bledsoe says.
As for the possibility of determining in advance the defense the quarterback is about to see at the line of scrimmage, Bledsoe says, "Generally, no. Now, if that is what the Patriots were able to accomplish, if they were able to tell Tom what defense is coming, obviously that would be a huge advantage. But whether they were able to do that, I don't know."
Bledsoe suggests that the scandal has been overplayed and that stealing signals always will be part of the game. As a freshman at Washington State, he received an award from his coaches after he stole offensive calls from the sideline in a win over California; he had been able to figure out when Cal was going to run, pass or screen pass.
"Listen, that kind of stuff has been going on for as long as there have been video cameras," Bledsoe says of the accusations against the Patriots. "I know people are trying to make this out like this is some huge scandal, but it is at every level. You talk about college, you talk about high school -- people are taping stuff, and that is what they do. And they try and gain an advantage that way. And that is what the Patriots were doing."
As for where teams cross the line of fair play, he says, "It is a pretty fuzzy line. Like in other realms in the world, in the business world, when you get into a highly competitive environment, people are going to try and do what they can get away with. That is not unique to football."
Another former Patriots quarterback, who spoke to ESPN.com on condition of anonymity, says that New England pushes the envelope further than most teams and that the Patriots were doing so long before they were caught in September.
Warner says he has no insight into the Patriots' methods, although he has heard from quarterbacks who gained an advantage because their teams stole signals.
"I've actually talked to people this year that said they played on teams that had the other team's signals," Warner says. "So as the quarterback, you go up to the line of scrimmage, and they're telling you in your helmet what coverage you are going to see, what play to check to. And those are obviously distinct advantages -- when you know what a team is going to do before you run a play and you have an idea as the quarterback where they are going to go, where you should go with the football. Now, bottom line: You still have to execute. You still have to react. You still have to block, throw and catch it. But it is a huge advantage."
The question is, did the Patriots enjoy that kind of advantage in Super Bowl XXXVI? Did they pick things up during the Rams' walk-through, during the practices in New Orleans leading up to the game or in a game St. Louis played in Foxborough earlier in the 2001 season?
As Warner paints the picture, that Super Bowl wasn't like any other loss. It derailed a franchise and damaged careers and reputations.
"Let's just say, for instance, that what they did had an effect on the second Super Bowl that I played in," Warner says. "And then to see the course of my career from that point forward -- there was some dramatic changes. Had I won two Super Bowls, some of the things may not have happened through the course of my career. Now, obviously, I put my faith and trust in a much higher source than any cheating that is going on, and believe that God has a distinct purpose in what goes on. But I'm just one example of how our situation in St. Louis deteriorated after the loss of that Super Bowl.
"After we lost the Super Bowl, the organization went into a little bit of a downward spiral, as you see with a lot of teams that lose the Super Bowl. You see how career situations were altered after losing that game. You look at Mike Martz. If he is a Super Bowl winner, that is a whole different thing. Or just maybe guys, that was their only chance to be in a Super Bowl. And to go away losing it instead of winning it, that is a huge deal.
"So if [the Patriots] did something that affected that game, I would hope that all the parties involved would do everything they could to make sure that it doesn't happen again. And to make sure that something that somebody earned wasn't taken away from them in any way, shape or form by somebody not doing or abiding by the league rules."
Mike Fish is an investigative reporter for ESPN.com. He can be reached at michaeljfish@gmail.com.
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Crono0801
Good Call Stats Team
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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wtf does a senator care about it. Politics need to stay out of sports. btw I was watching PTI the other day and Tony said that in the tapes coaches were waving at the camera while they were being filmed.
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The Original 81
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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At this point I really don't care anymore. We all know they cheated, that's it. Just let it be.
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"Let me say one more thing about Kobe. He will be the best player in the history of the game. If he keeps doing what he's doing, there is no stopping him. He is that good." - Shaquille O'Neal in his autobiography, "Shaq Talks Back"
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CrazyLikeCatfish
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Politics does need to stay out of sports, there are other issues of more importance. I do wonder though, did they also cheat against my Eagles? Hmm..
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John3:16
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| Crono0801 wrote: |
| wtf does a senator care about it. Politics need to stay out of sports. btw I was watching PTI the other day and Tony said that in the tapes coaches were waving at the camera while they were being filmed. |
Because he's a bitter Eagles fan that's why... |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| CrazyLikeCatfish wrote: |
| Politics does need to stay out of sports, there are other issues of more importance. I do wonder though, did they also cheat against my Eagles? Hmm.. |
Specter has implied as much |
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Dejaman
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Goodell is a joke. He should step down immediately.
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strikemode14
Clublakers Moderator
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| ^There are no words. |
Son..of...a... 
the funny thing is I swore to everyone that it was rigged somehow..and I was right
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Radner
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Football -> produces money -> U.S. thrives on profit
Cheating in football -> produces less fans and advertising -> U.S. makes no money -> allegations and trials are warranted
For someone to question why Congress gets involved, they are essentially oblivious to the impact of profit in this nation. |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Dejaman wrote: |
| Goodell is a joke. He should step down immediately. |
He almost makes me prefer Tagliabue almost... |
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KGB
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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Location: I hope I get there one day.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| ^There are no words. |
The only way I don't hire a hitman is if they give us that superbowl win. I still bled inside over this game before I found out about that.
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LAKER DYNASTY STARTS FEB 1 2008...
A.K.A. 8got81_24gets101
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KGB
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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Location: I hope I get there one day.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| The Original 81 wrote: |
| At this point I really don't care anymore. We all know they cheated, that's it. Just let it be. |
HELL NO THEY COST THE GREATEST SHOW ON TURF A RING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
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LAKER DYNASTY STARTS FEB 1 2008...
A.K.A. 8got81_24gets101
"We the best! Know that, don’t think it, know it! Its our turn! It's our championship! Our season! Lets go out here and make a statement! Its our turn now! Let's go!" |
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Basketball Fan
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| 8got81_24gets101 wrote: |
| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| ^There are no words. |
The only way I don't hire a hitman is if they give us that superbowl win. I still bled inside over this game before I found out about that. |
You know if Georgia Frontiere was still alive she would've... |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Looks like they'll meet today
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3242944&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines
| Quote: |
Goodell to meet with Specter Wednesday to discuss Spygate
ESPN.com news services
Updated: February 12, 2008, 9:32 PM ET
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NEW YORK -- NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and Sen. Arlen Specter are to meet Wednesday to discuss the Spygate case involving the New England Patriots.
AP Photo/Lauren Victoria Burke
Sen. Arlen Specter says he expects the NFL will be cooperative at Wednesday's meeting.
The meeting will take place at 3 p.m. ET in Specter's office in Washington, according to ESPN.com's Mike Fish. The Pennsylvania Republican has asked Goodell to explain his decision to destroy the tapes and notes from the case, which go back to 2002.
"I think they're [the NFL] going to want to not be uncooperative," Specter told Fish. "I expect they'll be cooperative. Once they come in, I've got a lot of questions for them. There are a lot of questions to be asked, and a lot of people we want to talk about."
Patriots coach Bill Belichick was fined $500,000 and the team was fined $250,000 for the illegal taping of the New York Jets' defensive signals in the opening week of this season. The Patriots also forfeited a first-round draft pick.
Specter's challenge to Goodell came two days before the Super Bowl, lost by the Patriots to the New York Giants on Feb. 3.
Specter refused to comment to Fish about the specific questions he wants to ask Goodell, but he previously has raised the issue of the league's destruction of tapes turned over by the Patriots.
The top-ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee has raised the possibility of congressional hearings if he wasn't satisfied with Goodell's answers.
In defending the destruction of the notes, Goodell said "there was no purpose to them at all." Specter said Goodell's response "didn't make any sense at all" and also questioned whether there might have been illegal acts by the Patriots before the 2005 Super Bowl, when they beat the Philadelphia Eagles.
The punishment went beyond the confiscated Jets tapes. The tapes and notes dated as far back as 2002 and the NFL said in October that Belichick acknowledged to Goodell that there had been spying since he became New England's coach in 2000.
Last week at the Pro Bowl, Goodell was asked why only six tapes were confiscated by the NFL's security department.
"That's what they had," he replied. "My guess is that they taped over some of those from time to time. That's what video departments do. They did it more than six times because there were notes that reflected that."
NFL officials also said the investigation didn't find any illegal taping or other spying during the playoffs or the three Super Bowls the Patriots won in 2002, 2004 and 2005.
Specter told Fish former Patriots' video assistant Matt Walsh was one of the people he wants to talk to. He said there are others, but wouldn't name them.
"We want to talk to Matt Walsh," Specter said. "We want to talk to people who have knowledge of what the Patriots organization is doing."
Walsh said last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl. New England, a two-touchdown underdog, won that game 20-17.
"We were aware of this before," Goodell said, referring to 2002 allegations. "We pursued it and weren't able to get any information that was credible. We were aware of some of the rumors and we pursued some of them and we continue that. From Day 1, I said if we feel there is new information that's inconsistent with what we've been told [by the Patriots], I reserve the right to reopen it."
Walsh would not say if he had been contacted by the league or by Specter's office.
Specter told Fish he doesn't know if Walsh has reached an indemnification agreement with the NFL, but it's a question he plans to ask Goodell on Wednesday. Specter said he wants to make sure that such a deal won't interfere with a potential Senate Judiciary Committee investigation.
Mike Fish is an investigative reporter for ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press contributed to this story.
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