Pinnock vs Wafer

[la3346]

I know most are leaning toward Pinnock at this point, but I have a different view. The biggest problem I have with Pinnock is that he's only 6'3 without shoes, there's no way he can play SG because of that.

Also, all the hooplas about Pinnock's defense aside, it seemed to me that reading Mike's report, Wafer actually has better lateral movement than Pinnock. And that's all I care about, because if you think about it, it's easy to get steals when teams are so unorganized. It's a lot harder to do that in a playoffs game, when teams are so careful about movement.

Right now, Wafer's biggest problem is his composure/IQ/confidence/mental stuff, but you should never judge a guy based on that, because once again, assuming two guys with equal confidence, then clearly the guy with the better talent wins out. All you have to do is look at Sasha last year. If it were up to us, he would have never made the team, as he was never on a level playing field due to his lack of confidence(although he still doesn't look like much now, due to his physical limitations, we saw that he's not as bad as we thought he were in the summer league.)

If their ballhandling is equal, then you have to go with Wafer. He's a better shooter, an inch taller, is younger(Pinnock is 23, which probably explains why he is more composed than Wafer), can jump higher, and a better man defender. Only thing Pinnock has on Wafer, on the physical level, is the wingspan.

[KB24@CL]

1. Wafer is a chucker and Pinnock can actually create for himself ( from what I have seen).
Wafer is as dumb as a potato on the floor.. Yes Wafer has a great body and I really mean great but he is way too dumb to do anything. He has absolutely no improvement sofar after a year. I want Pinnock because I´m ready to try something new. Had Pinnock been mister x I would still pick him over Wafer. At this point Wafer is worthless, just one of thise athletes that fails to succeed.
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"It is not how big you are, it is how big you play"
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
"Be strong in body, clean in mind, lofty in ideals"

[la3346]

Look at this video of Wafer

http://rapidshare.de/files/25423370/SPL-070906-2ndHalf.mpg.html

That's not a guy that can just dunk. That's a pretty skilled guy. He can shoot, he can handle the ball, and he's very athletic. Basically, he has all three of the criteria of what you need, when you want to look for a quality starting guard, late in the first round.

You have to keep in mind, Wafer only played one year of college ball. So,
his knowledge of the game shouldn't be expected to be higher than someone like Farmar and Pinnock(23 is pretty old for a rookie.)

Also, like I said with Sasha, if you're low on confidence, then you can look like nothing at times. Wafer is in the same situation as Sasha was last year, which is understandable because he's young, and it's hard for him to understand the concept of not getting down on yourself too much.

In the summer league, it's far better to look for physical attributes than just how they're playing, as that can varied too much, based on confidence level. And while Pinnock is not a bad athlete himself, Wafer is even better.

[Sky]

Pinnock's hoop iq dwarfs Wafer's. Wafter can only create for himself and doesn't run the offense. Pinnock even at this early stage has a better grasp of the triangle than Wafer.

Pinnock has shown the complete package. Create his own shot and set up others, pull up off the dribble and catch and shoot, finish, midrange, 3. Good handles. His man D needs some work, his team D is heady. Smart court awareness, pretty good passer. Wafer is faster laterally, but he was overplaying for steals not manning up.

Pinnock measured 6-4 in shoes with a 6-7 1/2 wingspan and a standing reach of 8-4 1/2. Size is not a big issue. Directional speed defensively is the only area where Pinnock loses out to Wafer. But if Von is overgambling for steals and getting beat off the dribble constantly, that speed edge is irrelevant becuase he isn't using it to defend.

[la3346]

But you can teach a guy not to gamble Sky, as long as he has the lateral movement(which I didn't think Smush had, so I think his gambling was kind of forced, by the coaching staff).

And I know there have been a lot of tweeners in this league, but 6'4(in shoes) is really stretching it. I mean, it's not like his wingspan is like Dwayne Wade's here.

Anyway, maybe they can keep Pinnock as backup PG and Wafer as backup shooting guard. At this point, we might as well just cut Sasha and McKie.

[A Rush]

[la3346]

Yeah, that hurts, coming from a guy who says KG is not a franchise player

[Sky]

You should judge a guy based on his impact on the floor. Wafer lacks the mental, Sasha lacks the physical, and the weakness of each is obvious on the floor.

la - You can coach a guy to defend instead of solely playing for steals. Wafer hasn't learned that one yet. Until he does his physical advantage in lateral speed is wasted.

I'm all for cutting Sasha and Mckie but both are under contract. Rambis has said what they want to see from Wafer is running the offense. He's not doing it. He's only creating for himself. If there's a choice for final roster spot between Pinnock and Wafer it's not close. Pinnock. Vastly superior hoop iq, better passer, more versatile shooter. Wafer is a better dunker, and a better athlete, but not a better player.

[SWOL]

DUDE WAFER HAS BEEN DEMOTED TO SCRUB ON THE SUMMER LEAGUE TEAM, THAT IS BASICALLY TELLING HIM TO TRY OUT FOR AND 1....THINK ABOUT IT WHAT SEPERATES THE AND 1 GUYS AND NBA BALLERS? NOT TALENT, ITS BASKETBALL I.Q., SOMETHING VON HAS NONE OF, AND IM NOT SURE YOU CAN JUST TEACH A GROWN MAN HOW TO BE A SMART BASKETBALL PLAYER, IF YOU'RE DUMB, YOU'RE DUMB AND IF PINNOCK HAS BEEN HERE 1 WEEK AND IS GRASPING THE OFFENSE MORE THAN A CAT THAT HASS BEEN HERE FOR A YEAR, THEN THERE IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM, THE GUY IS DUMB THINK ABOUT IT


VON, THERE IS A SPOT FOR YOU ON THE AND 1 TEAM, WE'LL CALL YOU

THE DEAD AIR UP THERE
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The LeBrons wrote

I've always lik...

SCREW YOU SHAQ.

[gng930]

[la3346]

And 1 players lack basic skills like ballhandling. If they can handle the ball, has height, and is athletic, you bet they will be drafted. As far as IQ, Luke has IQ, still doesn't make him any more than a bench player. I like Pinnock because he has skills AND athleticism. I'm just saying that Wafer is not as far behind him, as some think.

Anyway, we can also cut Green, he doesn't seem to do anything except make layups and shoot spot up jumpers.

[KB24@CL]

best case scenario is that we cut Sasha, Mckilled, Green, Wafer because all 4 suck.
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"It is not how big you are, it is how big you play"
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
"Be strong in body, clean in mind, lofty in ideals"

[SWOL]

[PurpleNGold1]

correct me IF IM WRONG ISNT WADE ONLY 6-4 AND PLAYS SG AND PINNOK IS MEASURED AT 6-5 WID SHOES

[Still A Dynasty]

i wish we didnt have to rely on either being on the squad. but wafer seems to need more time before he is ready to play for the lakers at the pg spot.

[Sky]

la - The critical separation between Pinnock and Wafer is hoop iq and that's what Jackson values most. Sure cut Green, but there's still not enough space for both Wafer and Pinnock. Pinnock has the tri skill set they want, and the smart 2-way game in a player that can create for himself and others, finish and hit midrange off the dribble and 3 in catch and shoot, thereby providing a skill set the roster lacks.

gng - Put Wafer wing to just score? Evans can already do that. No need to double up on skill sets and cut a guy who provides what you lack. Pinnock 's unique 2-way game and versatile scoring is unmatched on the bench. Wafer can do things other bench guys already do. Wafer's skills are duplicated and Pinnock's are not. Therefore Wafer goes and Pinnock stays.

[A Rush]

[trodgers]

[EQualizer]

[Tai Mai Shu]

[Ring It Up]

[KB24@CL]

[Ring It Up]

[BLAZINLAKERFAN]

I'm still not sold on Wafer. I think he's built a house with all those bricks he throws up. Everyone here claims he could shoot but still hasnt showed it. I've watched him play the last year in the SPL and this year so far and he's put up brick after brick after brick. Pinnock in 2 games has been a better player than Von. At least from what i've seen.
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[halekulani]

wafer can shoot


...

only when he plays against scrubs.

[Lakerholic44]

[cthroatgtr]

Wafer looked clueless in Game 1. I did not see game 2 but he got his points during garbage time so I don't know if I give that much credit either. Pinnock only in a few games has already proven to be a better player than Wafer. Wafer is one of those athletic clueless players that come along and either don't make it or struggle to understand the game. There is a lot to be said about a player that understands the game, especially for a team like the Lakers that run a complicated offense. I would take Pinnock hands down. Better IQ, hustle and attitude. To me this isn't even that close. Don't be fooled by Wafer's athleticism. He often tries to show that and ends up getting his dunk attempt blocked in the process. Fool's Gold.

[lotus]

Usually the players have good skills, but it comes down to whether their skills match with the right system. Case in point, Tim Thomas. He sucked his whole career except for last year with Phoenix. I'd be surprised if he has a duplicate year with the Clippers.

Bottom line for Wafer is that he would be awesome playing for Phoenix where his skills would match their system; on the other hand, Pinnock's skills are good for the triangle.

I'd keep Pinnock and try to trade or just dump Wafer, not because he is not good, but because he lacks the triangle IQ. Contrast Wafer with someone like Luke, who has hardly any skills, but a high triangle IQ.

[strangesweet]

Only thing I can remember of Wafer is jacking up shots, trumbling my hearts and two of Laker 05-06 season top 10 plays. (Free throw dunk and dunked on by Snyper )

I'd go for Pinnock at this point, since he has shown that he possess the guard skills and can create his own shot, which the team lacks outside of Kobe.

[Flatlyner]

Wafer struggled in the NBDL, doesn't that suggest something? Cut him, give Pinnock a shot. At worst he sucks in the NBDL, did we lose anything??
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