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Sky
Clublakers Analyst
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 6292
Location: up
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 Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Rayboi - But if you honestly believe they are going to be a lottery team, or barely make the playoffs, or go first round and out, shouldn't you be true to your convictions?
I root for the team and lose my voice every year, but if I think they aren't going to go far I think it's much better to call it straight than to adopt some false tone that I don't believe in. You want the heart to rule over all. Some fans apply the heart to rooting for them during the games but the head to analyze their chances. Not all fans take the approach you do, vive le difference. |
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rayboi8
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 1287
Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Sky wrote: |
Rayboi - But if you honestly believe they are going to be a lottery team, or barely make the playoffs, or go first round and out, shouldn't you be true to your convictions?
I root for the team and lose my voice every year, but if I think they aren't going to go far I think it's much better to call it straight than to adopt some false tone that I don't believe in. You want the heart to rule over all. Some fans apply the heart to rooting for them during the games but the head to analyze their chances. Not all fans take the approach you do, vive le difference. |
i understand. Im realistic too. I just dont like that "i hope that i am wrong and that they prove me wrong attitude." If you think there is even a chance they will prove you wrong, dont you think your expectations are a little too low?
edit: one thing that bothered me was that whole "luke walton is crazy for saying we could make it to the finals" comment
I see Luke as a pretty smart player. I would say that a smart player like him who is actually on the team would knows a lot more than anyone on Cl about what the team is capable of achieving. If he says something like that, I wouldnt completely discard it right away and call him crazy.
The least I would do is consider it with an open mind, even if i think the possibilities are slim (which i do) |
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Sky
Clublakers Analyst
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 6292
Location: up
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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"If you think there is even a chance they will prove you wrong, dont you think your expectations are a little too low?"
That's still heart over head. My head says there's a small chance they go to the second round in the right matchup, an infinitesimal chance they go to the WCF and a sub-atomic chance they go to the Finals. Just because the chance exists doesn't mean I believe in it. I go with what I believe most, not what I hope most.
I was fine with Luke making that comment, players need to believe in themselves and their team. But it's one thing for the players and the team to say that and believe it, that impacts their perfornance, coinfidence and trust in each other. It's another for the fans to believe it. What I believe has no impact on them. Some fans think otherwise, that fan belief is somehow related via karma to performance. Tripe. Rooting for the team live is the fans' link to performance.
What we think of their chances doesn't matter at all. We're free to conclude what we believe. What I believe is first round and out, with a small chance of second round and microscopic chances thereafter. |
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rayboi8
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 1287
Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I dont know what to tell you sky. I have certain realistic expectations every season, but at the same time I try not to put any limits on what could happen as long as we have kobe and phil on this team. I guess thats the fan side of me. If i planned out every season like you, i think it would take away from the excitement |
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bhatta
Clublakers Lead Analyst
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 3559
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Raiboi -
In your analysis of what I wrote, you missed the most important part of the entire post - I was being sarcastic.
My point was that Pat Riley isn't considered such a good coach because of the players he has had. Laker fans are creating a double standard in raising Phil to a pedestal while not looking at history and realizing that Riley has an equal accomplishment - winning championships with great teams.
What did Phil really prove last season? Phil Jackson's teams have made it out of the first round in every season that he has made the playoffs - even the Bulls teams that didn't have Jordan. Last year, he took a mediocre team into the playoffs and lost in the first round, done in by the deficiencies of his own team. Phil did a good job coaching last year, spending more time teaching than he has in years past, but he still isn't the GOAT in my eyes.
As far as Luke saying the team can make the Finals - I said on several occasions that I admired the confidence, but Walton isn't the player that should be making statements like this. He has WAY too much to work on his own game before he earns the right to talk big like that. If Kobe or Lamar said something like that, I'd listen .. but the holes Luke has in his own game should be filled first. I did say that I liked the comments he made because it shows confidence, but he hasn't given ME reason to feel that same confidence.
Now, I gave legitimate reasons as to why I felt George needed to go. I was his supporter for a long time, but when the Lakers needed him to step up and he simply did not do so. Expecting one of your seasoned veterans to be a leader shouldn't be asking for too much, but hey, maybe I'm too demanding of players that have won three championships?
As far as me saying bad things of the team as a win-win .. um .. how is it a win-win for me if I'm proven wrong? I have my pride and don't ever want to be wrong .. don't we all? I do want this team to be successful, but when you look at the roster, that success would be had only by the team overachieving. Expecting overachievement is illogical to me.
In any case, it's good that you have the faith that you do. I'm sure you don't let what I say have any bearing to what you feel, and it shouldn't. Just as you're sticking your guns and being optimistic, I will do so and be surprised if this team exceeds my expectations. I say they'll be out in five games in the Round 2. And I think I'm dumb for expecting that.
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rayboi8
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 1287
Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bhatta wrote: |
Raiboi -
Now, I gave legitimate reasons as to why I felt George needed to go. I was his supporter for a long time, but when the Lakers needed him to step up and he simply did not do so. Expecting one of your seasoned veterans to be a leader shouldn't be asking for too much, but hey, maybe I'm too demanding of players that have won three championships?
In any case, it's good that you have the faith that you do. I'm sure you don't let what I say have any bearing to what you feel, and it shouldn't. Just as you're sticking your guns and being optimistic, I will do so and be surprised if this team exceeds my expectations. I say they'll be out in five games in the Round 2. And I think I'm dumb for expecting that. |
At times you are saying he was riding the success of shaq and kobe with those 3 championships and he didnt deserve them. Now you are saying hes a seasoned veteran who has won three championships (implying that he played a big part in them). Which is it?
As for your expectations, they are basically the same as mine, almost exactly. To me first round seems like its going to happen, and second round is possible and hopeful, and you seem to think the same way. I hope i didnt somehow imply that i somehow think this team will for sure make it to the finals or wcf or something. It just seemed to me like you thought they would barely make the playoffs or get swept in the first round or something. To me, you didnt sound confident with this team at all. |
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lakerzkb8
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 10887
Location: Canadaland
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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I'm disgusted with the Devean George segment 
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Podium
Clublakers Analyst
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5015
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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This is what the podcast is supposed to do, spark debate and conversation. 
And Rayboi, bhatta is simply doing what most "radio" (I know its a podcast) hosts do. Take up a different point of view to get some listeners "up in arms". He doesn't do it to the extent that Steve Hartman does (say what you want about him, but the man does his job), but bhatta saying Phil isn't the right coach makes some fans who haven't thought about it, think about it and figure out whether they agree or disagree with him and form their opinion (and arguments to support that opinion) that way.
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rayboi8
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 1287
Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The Podium wrote: |
This is what the podcast is supposed to do, spark debate and conversation.
And Rayboi, bhatta is simply doing what most "radio" (I know its a podcast) hosts do. Take up a different point of view to get some listeners "up in arms". He doesn't do it to the extent that Steve Hartman does (say what you want about him, but the man does his job), but bhatta saying Phil isn't the right coach makes some fans who haven't thought about it, think about it and figure out whether they agree or disagree with him and form their opinion (and arguments to support that opinion) that way. |
ya, youre right, but in this case, i dont think bhatta is saying things just to get us thinking. Im pretty sure he supports most of the stuff he says on the podcast. |
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HWTA
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| rayboi8 wrote: |
| bhatta wrote: |
Raiboi -
Now, I gave legitimate reasons as to why I felt George needed to go. I was his supporter for a long time, but when the Lakers needed him to step up and he simply did not do so. Expecting one of your seasoned veterans to be a leader shouldn't be asking for too much, but hey, maybe I'm too demanding of players that have won three championships?
In any case, it's good that you have the faith that you do. I'm sure you don't let what I say have any bearing to what you feel, and it shouldn't. Just as you're sticking your guns and being optimistic, I will do so and be surprised if this team exceeds my expectations. I say they'll be out in five games in the Round 2. And I think I'm dumb for expecting that. |
At times you are saying he was riding the success of shaq and kobe with those 3 championships and he didnt deserve them. Now you are saying hes a seasoned veteran who has won three championships (implying that he played a big part in them). Which is it? |
JSM said that. |
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BDG
ClubLakers.com Administrator
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 35018
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| rayboi8 wrote: |
edit: one thing that bothered me was that whole "luke walton is crazy for saying we could make it to the finals" comment
I see Luke as a pretty smart player. I would say that a smart player like him who is actually on the team would knows a lot more than anyone on Cl about what the team is capable of achieving. If he says something like that, I wouldnt completely discard it right away and call him crazy. |
You do have a point there; however, in the same breath you can say that those that aren't on the team have a better perspective when calling it from a subjective viewpoint.
I think the thing missed in all this is the confidence Luke must feel from himself and his teammates. While I definitely don't expect this team to make the Finals, it's always a positive to see such a ballsy statement to be put out before the beginning of the year.
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dogster
Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Add me to the legions of listeners who believe that this feed is superior to the previous two. Only a couple more years of voice lessons, and you guys will be pretty OK. I fell asleep at some point, but I think it has to do with the fact that I’m really tired and a bit sleep deprived. I thought the Phil-bashing and the Gump-bashing … I mean Devean George bashing… was a bit ridiculous. I’m hoping there was some Dogster bashing at some point. These guys were going to pay me millions to debate them on the air, but I turned them down to focus on print media, Was GuRu on the third feed, or did they fire him? |
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dogster
Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| bhatta wrote: |
As far as Luke saying the team can make the Finals - I said on several occasions that I admired the confidence, but Walton isn't the player that should be making statements like this. He has WAY too much to work on his own game before he earns the right to talk big like that. If Kobe or Lamar said something like that, I'd listen .. but the holes Luke has in his own game should be filled first.
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There is zero logic or sensible thought in this paragraph, just backseat-driver fanspeak. It is sort've like saying, "don't believe that you can win an auto race until you've actually won a race." No champion ever thought like this. But the world is full of people who believe this nonsense. They stall themselves and unwittingly try to stall others. They sit on the sidelines of life, telling life's true players what is and isn't possible. But the champions start with a vision that transcends Joe Average's perception of limiits. They are able to see themselves as champions. The belief in this clear vision allows them to stand and deliver. To achieve a goal, first visualize it.
Walton grew up learning about championship basketball, and has sniffed blood in the playoffs. He's played on a team that made it to the finals. And now he's visualizing his current team making it to the playoffs. Not rocket science. |
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ladam24
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 11016
Location: Gold Coast, AUS
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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YES! finally we've been fed.
Cheers fellas, good job.
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rayboi8
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 1287
Location: LA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| dogster wrote: |
| bhatta wrote: |
As far as Luke saying the team can make the Finals - I said on several occasions that I admired the confidence, but Walton isn't the player that should be making statements like this. He has WAY too much to work on his own game before he earns the right to talk big like that. If Kobe or Lamar said something like that, I'd listen .. but the holes Luke has in his own game should be filled first.
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There is zero logic or sensible thought in this paragraph, just backseat-driver fanspeak. It is sort've like saying, "don't believe that you can win an auto race until you've actually won a race." No champion ever thought like this. But the world is full of people who believe this nonsense. They stall themselves and unwittingly try to stall others. They sit on the sidelines of life, telling life's true players what is and isn't possible. But the champions start with a vision that transcends Joe Average's perception of limiits. They are able to see themselves as champions. The belief in this clear vision allows them to stand and deliver. To achieve a goal, first visualize it.
Walton grew up learning about championship basketball, and has sniffed blood in the playoffs. He's played on a team that made it to the finals. And now he's visualizing his current team making it to the playoffs. Not rocket science. |
Thank you. |
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Snake Eyes
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 5859
Location: Claremont CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Just wanted to say I really appreciated the feed and I think it was the best so far. Keep up the good work guys, I might leave a voice mail in the next couple of days. |
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Lakerman JSJ
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 9981
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I just finally had an opportunity to listen to the feed and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Good work fellas. I sounded sexy as usual of course. 
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BDG
ClubLakers.com Administrator
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 35018
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
Wow, I just finally had an opportunity to listen to the feed and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Good work fellas. I sounded sexy as usual of course. |
Yeah, nice one JSJ.
Please keep the voicemails coming everyone.
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Slava laughed at the suggestion his skills might be affected by the down time. "Are you kidding?" he said. "Basketball is like ball. It's all a circle."
BEST VIDEO EVER ... AND AND THE SECOND BEST. |
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dogster
Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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I think you should bring back GuRu. If he works on his voice, he could be the next Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton. Actually, the GuRu segment from the second food was one of the best. He didn't agree with Battty's bashing of Phil Jackson, etc.
But seriously, the tape recordings...errr ... I mean Podcasts are great!
Now what would really be cool... Have the guys who claim to know the players and team personnel actually interview these people...
The musical touches in #4 had a certain je ne sais pas.
So I say carry forth! (or should I say, fourth...). When, pray tell, is feed four? "Food Four Thought" |
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hZm
Clublakers Analyst
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 8893
Location: Tarzana, California
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| dogster wrote: |
I think you should bring back GuRu. If he works on his voice, he could be the next Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton. Actually, the GuRu segment from the second food was one of the best. He didn't agree with Battty's bashing of Phil Jackson, etc.
But seriously, the tape recordings...errr ... I mean Podcasts are great!
Now what would really be cool... Have the guys who claim to know the players and team personnel actually interview these people...
The musical touches in #4 had a certain je ne sais pas.
So I say carry forth! (or should I say, fourth...). When, pray tell, is feed four? "Food Four Thought" |
Is that a good thing? 
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dogster
Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| hZm wrote: |
| dogster wrote: |
I think you should bring back GuRu. If he works on his voice, he could be the next Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton. Actually, the GuRu segment from the second food was one of the best. He didn't agree with Battty's bashing of Phil Jackson, etc.
But seriously, the tape recordings...errr ... I mean Podcasts are great!
Now what would really be cool... Have the guys who claim to know the players and team personnel actually interview these people...
The musical touches in #4 had a certain je ne sais pas.
So I say carry forth! (or should I say, fourth...). When, pray tell, is feed four? "Food Four Thought" |
For him, or for us?
Is that a good thing? |
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GuRu
Better Than You
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 29610
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:43 am Post subject: |
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I wasnt asked back. Oh well, it was still entertaining to listen to
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bhatta
Clublakers Lead Analyst
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 3559
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Guru will be back eventually - this one, as you can tell, was slowly put together and had month-old material.
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