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Rumors: Bynum Out Longer? + Blog
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Chicano
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alleyhoops wrote:
My expectations -- Bynum MAY be back by next year's all-star break, but I wouldn't count on it.
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Champ



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nmn989 wrote:
emplay wrote:
nmn989 - please stop


Only if you can expose the flaws in what I just said


DUDE, Bynum is hurt. I guess the notion of him being young and supposedly heeling quick is not the case, big deal! He dislocated his knee cap and has a bone bruise, I guess it's worse then what it appeared to be. He is only 20... Why risk his future? Get over it already bro, he is not coming back even if he is 85% and I personal LOVE that they are taking it slow with Drew. I can just say I'm glad Drew doesn't think like you or even the front office thinks like you!
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wallangong



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nmn989 wrote:
emplay wrote:
nmn989 - please stop


Only if you can expose the flaws in what I just said


pretty much EVERYONE in this thread has exposed your flaws, you just won't accept that. rehab is not something you want someone to go through repeatedly. just because you CAN rehab it doesn't mean it's good on your body. in a lot of cases you'll see guys hurt their other knee/leg as they try to compensate for the weaknesses in the injured one.

basically, you're not a doctor. you know about 1/1000000000000 of what you think you're so sure of. give it a rest.
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nmn989



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if we had Bynum at his absolute best in his prime, what good would that be once Kobe, Pau, and Odom retired? In the end, it's still about championships, not about saving a guy to be at his absolute best.
And to win championships, you need good teammates. Saving Bynum for when his teammates are weak, instead of taking advantage of when they're strong, would seem counterproductive.

This is assuming that Bynum is going to remain healthy from now till his prime, which is a BIG assumption. They said that Yao was an injury-proned guy and would be proned to injuries like the leg injury he had that year. I never bought into it(thought it was an accident), until this year, when he sustained the stress fracture. It would also appear that if you are prone to injury, then the injuries you sustain will be a lot more damaging than someone who is not, even on small collisions.

To me, unathletic 300-lbers have the highest risk for injuries in this league. And Bynum belongs in that group, at least, he was born that way.

Also, I don't even think that you can assume that we'll dominate for the next 4 or 5 years, for example, we might have to trade Odom away to save money, so now our margin for error for injuries will be even less. So to me, you've gotta take advantage of these opportunities as much as possible, while all of our guys are young and still in their prime.
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nmn989



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wallangong wrote:
nmn989 wrote:
emplay wrote:
nmn989 - please stop


Only if you can expose the flaws in what I just said


pretty much EVERYONE in this thread has exposed your flaws, you just won't accept that. rehab is not something you want someone to go through repeatedly. just because you CAN rehab it doesn't mean it's good on your body. in a lot of cases you'll see guys hurt their other knee/leg as they try to compensate for the weaknesses in the injured one.

basically, you're not a doctor. you know about 1/1000000000000 of what you think you're so sure of. give it a rest.


I'll give you credit for at least attempting to counter one of my points. You say he'll have to try to compensate. Why? He wouldn't be playing any games in the offseason.

Doctors aren't above logic(and so far, I'm not sure if their "credentials" are any better than mine). Tell me, if they're so smart, then why can't they even pinpoint what Bynum's problem is exactly?
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lakerswiz



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They did pinpoint his problem. Pain and swelling.
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nmn989



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was the cause of the pain, I meant?
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strategos



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nmn989 wrote:
Even if we had Bynum at his absolute best in his prime, what good would that be once Kobe, Pau, and Odom retired? In the end, it's still about championships, not about saving a guy to be at his absolute best.
And to win championships, you need good teammates. Saving Bynum for when his teammates are weak, instead of taking advantage of when they're strong, would seem counterproductive.


Kobe, Pau and maybe Odom as well will probably be playing for this Lakers team for another few years. We do not only want to save Bynum for when they retire, we also want him healthy for the next season, and the season after that, and so on. You have to realize, that risking a serious injury to A-Bomb now would not only jeopardize the far future, but also the next few years which seem to look very promising with this current squad.

nmn989 wrote:
To me, unathletic 300-lbers have the highest risk for injuries in this league. And Bynum belongs in that group, at least, he was born that way.


Unathletic? Are we talking about the same Andrew? LOL

nmn989 wrote:
Also, I don't even think that you can assume that we'll dominate for the next 4 or 5 years, for example, we might have to trade Odom away to save money, so now our margin for error for injuries will be even less. So to me, you've gotta take advantage of these opportunities as much as possible, while all of our guys are young and still in their prime.


You can also not assume, that we will win it all with Bynum this year. Especially considering that he will be out of shape and has not played one game with Pau (his return would certainly influence the chemistry). Maybe if it was 100% sure to win a championship if he plays, I would agree with you to some extent.

However, this team is very young and has not played even one game at full strength. Still, we managed to win the freaking WC! How can you risk losing Bynum to a serious injury when we seem to have such a bright future? I just don’t get it.

You say nobody wants to counter your points, how about trying to counter other posters points? Good luck with that, you can start off with the Bynum injury thread where you already posted your theory – go through it and explain why others who think Drew shouldn’t play until he’s 100% are wrong
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2wheelgod



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nmn989 wrote:
What was the cause of the pain, I meant?


I ain't no doc, but I guess pain sensation could be invoked when the pain receptors fire up. This could be due to the surrounding tissue swelling and impacting the receptors. Pain is not necessarily a bad thing as it's a way of your body telling you that something is still wrong.

(I've lost a some nerve endgins around my left knee are after a horrific motorcycle accident, and as a result, I don't feel superficial pain (nor pressure, nor temperature) around that area, even though I know my knee is not a prefect knee. I only feel pain on this knee when I really work it beyond its limit, and the pain usually comes quick and sharp (versus a gradual pain).. and by then the damage might already have been done. So the only way to protect myself to not rely on my pain receptor but rather to tell myself that I should never workout hard on this knee.)

Doctors are not miracle workers, but they do have more experience than most non-doctors, even if non-doctor is a say logical engineer. Pain sometimes is not easily tracked and fixed, otherwise backpain would not be so debilitating to so many people.
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lakerfan2



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nmn989 wrote:
What was the cause of the pain, I meant?


Ugh, do you read any of the update posts in the Bynum thread?

(via Phil Jackson after Bynum reports from the doctor in NY)
His pain is caused from an irritation in his kneecap after the healing of the dislocation. This is known as Chondromalacia or Runner's Knee. He may have got this from working out so soon after healing. What he really needed was a gradual return to activity to avoid any of the inflammation of the knee (which we have been seeing so much, and why he's not practicing.) It's not so much of torn cartilidge, more damaged. And the only way he returns is if this irritation stops bothering him and play and he feels comfortable with the natural basketball movements he's used to like pivoting and landing. Right now, it's just waiting.

Take some words from Phil...

"Don't say/use expect. You get disappointed when you expect and things don't come out your way. Just hope. Hope that it comes out the way we want it."
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nmn989



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I read the first page, but never really looked into what chondromacia is. It appears that it's an "irritation" of the cartilage(seems like it always comes back to this part of the body). Said that best treatment is rest, and if it doesn't work(which means that it's probably been torn), then he may need arthroscopic surgery....hmm...
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nmn989



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, now that we know what his condition is, let's look at all the options:

1) Let him rest past the Finals, he recovers completely and doesn't need surgery.

2) Let him rest past the Finals, but he doesn't recover and needs surgery anyway.

Obviously, option 1 is preferable(but probably at a cost of a championship), but what if it's actually option 2? You'll end up with no championships, and Bynum forcing to have surgery anyway. Also, the chances of Bynum getting better with more rest if he didn't after 5 months are remote at best.
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halekulani



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nmn989 wrote:
wallangong wrote:
nmn989 wrote:
emplay wrote:
nmn989 - please stop


Only if you can expose the flaws in what I just said


pretty much EVERYONE in this thread has exposed your flaws, you just won't accept that. rehab is not something you want someone to go through repeatedly. just because you CAN rehab it doesn't mean it's good on your body. in a lot of cases you'll see guys hurt their other knee/leg as they try to compensate for the weaknesses in the injured one.

basically, you're not a doctor. you know about 1/1000000000000 of what you think you're so sure of. give it a rest.


Doctors aren't above logic(and so far, I'm not sure if their "credentials" are any better than mine). Tell me, if they're so smart, then why can't they even pinpoint what Bynum's problem is exactly?


it's kind of like house
doctors don't know what the problem is half the time. they treat the signs and symptoms available, and if it isn't working, they go back to the drawing board.
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10scott10



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

halekulani wrote:
nmn989 wrote:
wallangong wrote:
nmn989 wrote:
emplay wrote:
nmn989 - please stop


Only if you can expose the flaws in what I just said


pretty much EVERYONE in this thread has exposed your flaws, you just won't accept that. rehab is not something you want someone to go through repeatedly. just because you CAN rehab it doesn't mean it's good on your body. in a lot of cases you'll see guys hurt their other knee/leg as they try to compensate for the weaknesses in the injured one.

basically, you're not a doctor. you know about 1/1000000000000 of what you think you're so sure of. give it a rest.


Doctors aren't above logic(and so far, I'm not sure if their "credentials" are any better than mine). Tell me, if they're so smart, then why can't they even pinpoint what Bynum's problem is exactly?


it's kind of like house
doctors don't know what the problem is half the time. they treat the signs and symptoms available, and if it isn't working, they go back to the drawing board.

its not even that. they know what the problem is. he has swelling. it was an expected thing that could happen during the rehab. they were hoping he wouldn't have a major amount since he didn't have enough to slow him down ealier in the rehab at times when it is expected to flare up. they have just pushed him back and have stopped what he was doing when he had more swellin g which was working one-on-one against mihm and rambis.

they know the problem and the main curefor swelling is rest and ice.
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PowerGriz



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we drop the issue of Bynum and the doctors? There's plenty of threads about that already

My whole point in bringing back this thread is....


.... HAVE FAITH !!!
Even without Bynum we could win it all!!! This is a freaking awesome team!
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Valentino Rossi



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Rumors: Bynum Out Longer? + Blog Reply with quote

Why would you want the face of our franchise in the years to come ...to try and rush back ....for what...one game in the WCF? What if he hurts it again?

MAN, then I can see the posts then....

WTF, why did they play him?

LOL, you cant have it both ways people, either you support the timely rehab or you dont...you cant say you are a Laker fan and want to risk the best thing this franchinse will have on the floor for the next 8-10 years...

Thats reality, not myopia....
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fahrique



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nmn989 wrote:
Doctors aren't above logic (and so far, I'm not sure if their "credentials" are any better than mine). Tell me, if they're so smart, then why can't they even pinpoint what Bynum's problem is exactly?


I haven't read anything so funny since Dee_J used to post.
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V.V.V.V.V.



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nmn989 wrote:
Even if we had Bynum at his absolute best in his prime, what good would that be once Kobe, Pau, and Odom retired? In the end, it's still about championships, not about saving a guy to be at his absolute best.
And to win championships, you need good teammates. Saving Bynum for when his teammates are weak, instead of taking advantage of when they're strong, would seem counterproductive.

This is assuming that Bynum is going to remain healthy from now till his prime, which is a BIG assumption. They said that Yao was an injury-proned guy and would be proned to injuries like the leg injury he had that year. I never bought into it(thought it was an accident), until this year, when he sustained the stress fracture. It would also appear that if you are prone to injury, then the injuries you sustain will be a lot more damaging than someone who is not, even on small collisions.

To me, unathletic 300-lbers have the highest risk for injuries in this league. And Bynum belongs in that group, at least, he was born that way.

Also, I don't even think that you can assume that we'll dominate for the next 4 or 5 years, for example, we might have to trade Odom away to save money, so now our margin for error for injuries will be even less. So to me, you've gotta take advantage of these opportunities as much as possible, while all of our guys are young and still in their prime.


Thank you.

It seems like the FO assumes that we should save Bynum for the future, assuming that we have this huge window to win championships. Look at how big our window was with the last championship team: 5 years and we capitalized three times. Anything can happen next season: from injuries to trades to other powerhouses. Championships can never be taken for granted. We're in a good position this year and we need to capitalize. Bynum's ankle is healed, it just swells sometimes and hurts sometimes, but it's probably OK for limited minutes IMO.

I would expect that Bynum and his agent want him to get out on the court and show what he can do in the playoffs, so there's a good chance that we will see him this playoffs. This is probably against Jimmy's wishes, who is coveting his little racehorse for next season.
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emplay
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Bynum's ankle is healed, it just swells sometimes and hurts sometimes, but it's probably OK for limited minutes IMO.


It's his knee - and no it's not OK for limited minutes - he simply can't play basketball at the NBA level right now - period.
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V.V.V.V.V.



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad, i mean knee. So was there a setback? Was Bynum's return really scheduled for 6 weeks?
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emplay
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bynum probably won't be back this year - he needs 6 weeks to get back to where he was before - if it reponds by then great - if not he's out longer.

we should all move on already - we're restating the same thing over and over again
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V.V.V.V.V.



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright point taken. Thanks for the info.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've given up on Bynum this year but in a good way. At first I wanted him to return as soon as possible, but this team is doing really well right now that I don't see the point of rushing him back and probably making his injury worst. Lets stop being a little selfish here, we all want him back but at the end of the day we should do whats best for the kid. Emplay has done the best to explain his injury, unfortunately not many can understand his statement.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow wrote:
I've given up on Bynum this year but in a good way. At first I wanted him to return as soon as possible, but this team is doing really well right now that I don't see the point of rushing him back and probably making his injury worst. Lets stop being a little selfish here, we all want him back but at the end of the day we should do whats best for the kid. Emplay has done the best to explain his injury, unfortunately not many can understand his statement.


very well said...

bow
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81Kobe



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldenboy wrote:
Shadow wrote:
I've given up on Bynum this year but in a good way. At first I wanted him to return as soon as possible, but this team is doing really well right now that I don't see the point of rushing him back and probably making his injury worst. Lets stop being a little selfish here, we all want him back but at the end of the day we should do whats best for the kid. Emplay has done the best to explain his injury, unfortunately not many can understand his statement.


very well said...

bow


No, I disagree. He needs some mental toughness.

Kobe needed surgery - he is playing.

If he can return to the finals and help himself and the rest of the Lakers get a ring, he needs to play.
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RetroNikes



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get over it guys, hes not going to play.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

81Kobe wrote:
goldenboy wrote:
Shadow wrote:
I've given up on Bynum this year but in a good way. At first I wanted him to return as soon as possible, but this team is doing really well right now that I don't see the point of rushing him back and probably making his injury worst. Lets stop being a little selfish here, we all want him back but at the end of the day we should do whats best for the kid. Emplay has done the best to explain his injury, unfortunately not many can understand his statement.


very well said...

bow


No, I disagree. He needs some mental toughness.

Kobe needed surgery - he is playing.

If he can return to the finals and help himself and the rest of the Lakers get a ring, he needs to play.


so a pinky injury is the same as a knee injury?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'll make the Finals but I'll leave at that.

We need Drew to match Boston's manpower along with bringing the defense. I can only hope Boston loses in ECF, so that we can avoid them (highly unlikely though).
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81Kobe



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poooky wrote:
81Kobe wrote:
goldenboy wrote:
Shadow wrote:
I've given up on Bynum this year but in a good way. At first I wanted him to return as soon as possible, but this team is doing really well right now that I don't see the point of rushing him back and probably making his injury worst. Lets stop being a little selfish here, we all want him back but at the end of the day we should do whats best for the kid. Emplay has done the best to explain his injury, unfortunately not many can understand his statement.


very well said...

bow


No, I disagree. He needs some mental toughness.

Kobe needed surgery - he is playing.

If he can return to the finals and help himself and the rest of the Lakers get a ring, he needs to play.


so a pinky injury is the same as a knee injury?


Kobe has shown the heart of a warrior by playing despite the Lakers' front office and medical staff recommending surgery. He realizes he is tantalizing close to getting a ring and is bringing it every night, - despite his injury.

Bynum should take a lesson from the MVP and attempt to show the same mental toughness, heart and desire to attempt to play despite being in pain, hurt and injured . If Bynum can show the same mental toughness, and make himself available to play limited minutes, he could assist the Lakers in getting a ring.
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81Kobe



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Yahoo Sports 4/17/08:

1. Los Angeles Lakers: When will Andrew Bynum return?

A better question: Do the Lakers care? By now the Lakers have demonstrated that they likely have enough to survive a playoff run through the rough West terrain without their young center. Pau Gasol has been near-perfect in the triangle offense and Lamar Odom poses matchup problems for opposing forwards, big and small.

Bynum’s last medical update didn’t sound too promising. He said last week his knee remained unstable, and the Lakers certainly don’t seem to be expecting him back for the first round of the playoffs. If Bynum does eventually return, he’ll need time to regain some rhythm and adjust to playing with Gasol. Trying to do that in the playoffs won’t be easy.

So, are the Lakers better off without Bynum? No. At the least, he’ll provide a little shot-blocking and rebounding, and he’ll have six fouls to offer should Los Angeles meet up with Tim Duncan or Shaquille O’Neal. But the last couple of months have proved that while Bynum would still be a welcome addition to the Lakers’ rotation, he isn’t a necessity.
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