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trodgers
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 22092
Location: Tallahassee
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 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| BB wrote: |
| I thought your target wasn't getting stronger and deadlifts, squats and bench reflect strength. It's kind of funny you take pride in outbenching a 120lbs girl. :) |
I don't think I've ever told you what my target was. It is, incidentally, fitness. For the record, I only weigh 150. And don't forget not just outbenching you...out deadlifting, squatting, and all that other stuff, too. Because as you've shown...if you can do something better than another person, you obviously know more than that person about that activity.
| Quote: |
| If your target is indeed strength, you're doing in an inefficient way. If it's speed or endurance, it means the 120lbs girl trained better than you regardless. |
If my target is indeed something other than strength and I can outlift you, then you're training in a shoddy way, too, but you don't seem to understand that. As for endurance, you have no idea what kind of endurance I have. Running 1/2 a mile isn't a great test of endurance, after all.
Fitness has many aspects. For anyone to say, "Doing more than 15 reps of an exercise is useless," is both false and asinine. The fact is that there are very strong people who train in different ways and much about how you should train depends upon goals, diet, rest, and genetics.
Mike Mentzer's Heavy Duty system (which was a form of HIT) recommended a low rep range for gaining strength and size (as low as 1-3 reps depending upon the movement), yet some of his most impressive trainees performed as many as 70 reps on the leg extension machine and saw marked increases in size and strength. I recommend your reading some of his work training guys like Dorian Yates and the barbarian brothers, for instance. Then when you have an idea of what fitness and strength are like for people other than yourself, you might be better equipped to carry on this conversation.
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BB
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: |
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You should study biology 101, the part about hormones on genders and the type of muscles required to build muscle. So you as a guy, outlifting a woman should be common sense. You should hide under a rock if I'd outlift you. lol. Also, due to the fact that women have wider pelvic bones, our femurs are more inclined inwards, which means higher lateral forces on our knees while we run and that means that our muscles won't work at the highest rate because the brain shuts them down due to risk of injury(the rate increases with intra and inter muscular control) so the fact that I can outrun you, is sort of funny. And I don't think that I know
The fact that you consider 50 reps of crunches and back extensions crossfit is hilarious. A crossfit routine that I know of with that many reps is the Filthy 50, but that one has more than 2 exercises and combined it gets you to 500 reps and you have to do them in a certain time. Actually, no proper training workout would have less than 5 exercises.
And to me useless means inefficient. Kobe scoring 82 points on 70 shots in a loss would be useless because he was inefficient and we lost. Someone doing 70 reps to get the same results as someone who does 20 is inefficient, hence useless. But again, I'm a perfectionist and English is my 3rd language so maybe I made a mistake in wording.
And by the way, your diet and rest should be according your training type, not the other way around. And I don't train for strength, I train to be healthy and look good because my paycheck relies on it, but I did gymnastics for 8 years(competition, not just training and I even have a few medals from national championships on my age groups) from 4 to 12 and I think I picked some things from how training really works. |
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halekulani
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 5602
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| BB wrote: |
| halekulani wrote: |
| BB wrote: |
| Ok, I'll word it in another way. Doing more than 15 reps is way inefficient. Like it, this way? :D |
guy doesnt want to get big to begin with.
what is so hard to understand about that?
getting cut has more to do with diet than lifting heavy weights |
Yes, it has more to do with diet and cardio, but unless he's aiming for muscle endurance, he's wasting his time. |
so what you're saying is
high reps does have a function and it isn't inefficient
maybe you should write a proposal to the marine core and tell them more than 15 pushups and 15 situps have no purpose in making a strong soldier.
not everyone lifts weights for hypertrophy and power. wow, what a concept.
everyone has a different purpose for lifting. not everyone's idea of "strength" is the same. strength is a functional term. for some, it might actually, gasp, involve something other than lifting a max weight.
labelling high reps as "useless" or even "inefficient" is making a grossly incorrect generalization on the purpose of weight lifting. |
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Aonex
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 4224
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: |
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I have a nutrition question... would there be any benefit to substituting my meat intake with just fish, soy, beans, etc.? Or would I end up losing other nutrients from meat that I need.
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Chicano
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 19809
Location: Some people have no will power, no brains no vision, they just drift through life like lumps of crap
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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So I'm here, why am I not losing weight? 
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halekulani
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Aonex wrote: |
| I have a nutrition question... would there be any benefit to substituting my meat intake with just fish, soy, beans, etc.? Or would I end up losing other nutrients from meat that I need. |
benefit yes - most animal protein (beef, pork) is filled with fat and cholesterol. so if your goal is to lose weight, shift towards leaner meats and fish.
losing nutrients? not really. you can get sufficient amounts of necessary amino acids from other protein sources. |
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sarc4stic
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Joined: 16 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Chicano wrote: |
| So I'm here, why am I not losing weight? |
Argh, Chicano 
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Chicano
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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Location: Some people have no will power, no brains no vision, they just drift through life like lumps of crap
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Argh, sarc4stic
Don't be silly, I'm doing what your username says although I fail miserably, better leave that to the master of sarcasm KobeShow@CL.
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sarc4stic
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Chicano wrote: |
Argh, sarc4stic
Don't be silly, I'm doing what your username says although I fail miserably, better leave that to the master of sarcasm KobeShow@CL. |
Heh, first I was like "what does my avi say?", this version looks better.
He did make a thread about it, right? 
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Chicano
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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Location: Some people have no will power, no brains no vision, they just drift through life like lumps of crap
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Definitely, and it was nothing short of classic.
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trodgers
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 22092
Location: Tallahassee
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| BB wrote: |
| You should study biology 101, the part about hormones on genders and the type of muscles required to build muscle. So you as a guy, outlifting a woman should be common sense. You should hide under a rock if I'd outlift you. lol. Also, due to the fact that women have wider pelvic bones, our femurs are more inclined inwards, which means higher lateral forces on our knees while we run and that means that our muscles won't work at the highest rate because the brain shuts them down due to risk of injury(the rate increases with intra and inter muscular control) so the fact that I can outrun you, is sort of funny. And I don't think that I know |
Okay, so given that as an undergrad I was a double major in philosophy and biology, took Bio 1 (or 101 if you'd prefer) and 2, chemistry 1, and anatomy and physiology, I've been weight training for 15 years, what would that mean? Maybe I know a thing or two.
| Quote: |
| The fact that you consider 50 reps of crunches and back extensions crossfit is hilarious. A crossfit routine that I know of with that many reps is the Filthy 50, but that one has more than 2 exercises and combined it gets you to 500 reps and you have to do them in a certain time. Actually, no proper training workout would have less than 5 exercises. |
You just show that you don't know what cossfit is. That's fine. Not everyone knows everything about weight training. That's fine. I know little about flexibility training. In fact, I know almost nothing. As a result, I'm very inflexible. It's fine that you don't seem to know much about other areas of fitness.
As for the suggestion that no "proper" training workout would have you do less than 5 exercises, you're attacking some of the more impressive routines in history. Mike Mentzer's Heavy Duty, Arthur Jones's Nautilus workouts (he created Nautilus workout equipment, as well as MedX; his son created Hammer strength machines; those are the top 3 workout machines in existence), and Clarence Bass's Ripped series fall into that group. Apparently, often Crossfit does as well. So what's left?
| Quote: |
| And to me useless means inefficient. Kobe scoring 82 points on 70 shots in a loss would be useless because he was inefficient and we lost. Someone doing 70 reps to get the same results as someone who does 20 is inefficient, hence useless. But again, I'm a perfectionist and English is my 3rd language so maybe I made a mistake in wording. |
You should definitely read into Heavy Duty. No workout lasts longer than 15 minutes, you workout two to three times per week, and it's all about strength and size. I'm sure the same principles can be applied to any one area of fitness that is explosive (not endurance-based). It's when you start combining that higher reps, different modalities become important.
| Quote: |
| And by the way, your diet and rest should be according your training type, not the other way around. And I don't train for strength, I train to be healthy and look good because my paycheck relies on it, but I did gymnastics for 8 years(competition, not just training and I even have a few medals from national championships on my age groups) from 4 to 12 and I think I picked some things from how training really works. |
I'm sure you have picked up some things. It turns out that other people have as well. No one else in this thread is saying the other workouts are useless. As for diet, some people are severely limited, some less so, by their diet. It's hard to gain strength if you're a vegetarian. If you're diabetic or insulin resistant (which many Americans are because of the typical diet), you cannot do a lot of endurance moves until you correct through diet. These are just facts.
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trodgers
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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shaveice
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1365
Location: Hawaii
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Hey all,
Been trying to lose weight for a while. I'm slowly losing weight. Everyday I hop on the treadmill and walk my [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] for an hour. If I feel like it, I'll jog for a minute & walk for a minute and repeat. I burn off around 400-600 calories, depending.
I usually eat cereal for breakfast (Fruit loops I think?)
salad w/ ranch for lunch
and some big meal (usually fish) with oodles of rice (I'm asian).
Any tips on how I can lose weight?
Should I do crunches so I eat less or something?
Much thanks.
I'm at about 148 after being at 155. Slow slow slow process, but I stuff my face with food whenever we have food on the table so oh well.
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shaveice
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: |
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I also find the thread somewhat funny because strength building and losing weight aren't really matching, you'll just gain more weight.
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HitEmUp
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5694
Location: Madrid, Spain
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| shaveice wrote: |
| I also find the thread somewhat funny because strength building and losing weight aren't really matching, you'll just gain more weight. |
it should be the - Fat + Muscle thread
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trodgers
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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Location: Tallahassee
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| shaveice wrote: |
| I also find the thread somewhat funny because strength building and losing weight aren't really matching, you'll just gain more weight. |
But no one said it was. It's the workout thread. Come here for advice about working out. There's also the suggestion that if you want to lose weight, you should come here.
One piece of advice for diet is to cut out the sugar at breakfast. Don't start off your day with a bowl of sugary cereal. There are much better options. Some people dig regular oatmeal. I eat a PB and sugar free jelly sandwich on whole wheat bread regularly. It's surprisingly good. I also have whole grain pancake mix, which is also surprisingly good.
One other piece of advice is to eat a higher percentage of your calories earlier in the day. It's very hard for some people because they're accustomed to little or no breakfast in the AM and then not eating for the bulk of the day and then having a huge meal at night.
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BB
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| shaveice wrote: |
| I also find the thread somewhat funny because strength building and losing weight aren't really matching, you'll just gain more weight. |
When people want to lose "weight" they refer to losing fat. Ignorance hurts those people because they go along with dieting(not eating slows your metabolism too) and that does help you lose weight, but you lose mostly muscle. Muscle weighs more than fat. |
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Perfecto
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Abs. The best way to get some quick?
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lakerswiz
Joined: 10 May 2003
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Location: Santa Maria, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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from what i understand perfecto, alot of it has to do with more than just the ab excersizes...running and a good diet will help more than anything.
you have to get rid of the fat before your abs will show through.
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BB
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Perfecto wrote: |
| Abs. The best way to get some quick? |
Doing crunches won't make them visible. The easiest way to lose fat is lift weights because it lifts your metabolism longer than cardio does(cardio does it for only a few hours after the workout). Of course, training bigger muscle groups has a bigger impact. So, getting visible abs is a thing of dropping in body fat %. And that isn't happening over night if you are overweight badly.
By the way, eating properly is key. |
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A_V_R
Joined: 06 May 2006
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Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Perfecto wrote: |
| Abs. The best way to get some quick? |
Well Im young but I can get abs in a couple weeks when I want. Besides diet just running somewhere around 30-45 minutes 4-5 days week (could just be jogging as long as the heart rate is up.) and then doing some simple ab excersizes afterwards. Do atleast 2 ab excersizes like plank tightening and leg lifts. Crunches can work I guess but I tend to stay away from them
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shaveice
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
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Location: Hawaii
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Slice of bread + slice of Oscar Mayer ham
Spam w/ Eggs (sunny side up)
Everyday,
good or bad?
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kobejon
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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i want to look like jay cutler
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trodgers
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| shaveice wrote: |
Slice of bread + slice of Oscar Mayer ham
Spam w/ Eggs (sunny side up)
Everyday,
good or bad? |
Since no one else answered this, I guess I'll say that it's indeterminate.
What kind of bread? If it's whole grain that's a good start.
Oscar Mayer luncheon ham or what?
Spam? It's probably a bad idea. I haven't had it in years, but it's gotta be incredibly high in sodium.
How many eggs? Some will get on you for the egg yolk, but it's allegedly "good" cholesterol and one yolk per day won't hurt you.
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trodgers
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| kobejon wrote: |
i want to look like jay cutler
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Start roiding and pray you have ridiculous genetics.
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Aonex
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 4224
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| trodgers wrote: |
| kobejon wrote: |
i want to look like jay cutler
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Start roiding and pray you have ridiculous genetics. |
I just looked that guy up... jesus, that guy for real? Wonder how much roids that guy uses.
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Aonex
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Are a good set of resistance bands the best way to do strength training if you've got limited space in your apartment?
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trodgers
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Aonex wrote: |
| Are a good set of resistance bands the best way to do strength training if you've got limited space in your apartment? |
People will tell you different things. Here are my thoughts...and I was vehemently opposed to any of the "body weight" working out for a long time.
Go to Crossfit.com. There are plenty of workouts that will give you a full body workout, train you in a variety of aspects of fitness, and they'll kick your butt. Most of the time, you don't need any equipment, but having a jump rope, somewhere to do chins or pullups, and a little stone wall for jumping would help you out immensely.
If your goals are other...like strength or endurance specifically, let me know. Endurance won't be a problem, but you'll have to get very creative to workout without much in the way of equipment if you want to train specifically for strength.
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RJ
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 4508
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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I just bought:
* Mega-Dosed for Super-Amplified Nitric Oxide Levels & the Most Intense Muscle Pumps You've Ever Felt!*
* Test Subjects Packed on 340% More Muscle than Placebo in 21 days as Scientifically Determined by Triple-Verified Body Composition Analysis*
* Loaded with a Mind-Blowing 64 Ultra-Pure Ingredients - Ignites Raging Training Intensity, Massive Cell Volumization & Severe Anabolic Effects*
* Scientifically Superior to Regular Pre-Workout N.O. Products for Increasing Muscle Size & Strength.*
* Fruit Punch Pre-Workout Drink
&
* 30% Increase in Muscle Strength*
* Increases Muscle Strength, Size & Endurance with Half the Sets**
* 12% Increase of Protein Breakdown For Improved Amino Uptake*
* 7.7 Grams of Leucine For Muscle Protein Synthesis
* Clinically Researched
They should work well, as the first is a pre-workout supplement and the latter is a post-workout supplement. Anyone have any experience with either one?
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BB
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 773
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| If you want better protein, from my knowledge Syntha 6 and the Optimium Nutrition are the best ways to go. I'd stay away from GNC. |
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