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sleepin4matty
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 675
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 Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| spitty wrote: |
Pau's 1 on 1 game hasn't been great at all this Playoffs. He hasn't been draining wide open umpers either. I don't know hwats wrong with him but whatever at least he plays like a 7 footer under the basket.
Farmar on the other hand is horrible. He dominates the ball too much. Its bound to be a failure in the triangle when a guy who has nothing to offer from hogging the ball, no double teams, no great passes. He has gone from starter material in the 1st half of the season to career back up pg wanna be TJ ford or carbon copy of chucky atkins. |
Please no. Farmar at least passes the ball sometimes. Chucky Atkins was like Slava on offense, a black hole, the ball only comes out of his hands when its headed to the basket. Jordan drives to the hole and passes occasionally, 2 things Chucky did not do when he was a Laker. |
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kray28
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 4796
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Jordan's been a bit shaky the last two games....but it hasn't translated to anything really bad for the Lakers. He's still initiating the offense, and making some plays.
Where he goes wrong is trying to take it to the hole against an aggressive interior defense like the Jazz. He's going to have trouble finishing inside against them.
He needs to work on getting more midrange looks...because those are the highest percentage shots he has.
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LakersFirst007
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: |
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This Kirilienko leg pinch explains it all:
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Champ
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 130
Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| LakersFirst007 wrote: |
This Kirilienko leg pinch explains it all:
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What about the elbow?? LOL
And he still complains about the fouls!!!!  |
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iberian_oso
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| kop5789 wrote: |
| iberian_oso wrote: |
Garnett averages 21.9 pts, 8.8 rbs, 3.8 assists and 1.2 blocks in the playoffs, while Pau averages 21.2 pts, 8.5 rbs, 5 assists and 3 blocks.
Yepp, Boston and LA have a serious problem with these guys.
Well, some trivia questions:
1) there will be a prize for the clever guy who tells me why Odom has increased his rebounding since Pau´s trade.
2) Another prize for the clever guy who tells me what usually happens to the player who plays more minutes (last game Pau played only 43:40 btw, that´s to say, he rested the incredible ammount of 4 minutes, and he´s averaging 40.2 minutes, the first Laker in played minutes)
I expect most people will notice these little details. |
A guy like Pau, if you only look at the general numbers, then it'll be hard to say he's struggling, because he's already a very good player, and as stated, if a great player plays a level below(actually half, because a level is too much, the difference it appears, is that if a player is playing half a level below and another is playing half above, then the difference is one level, and now you can see the difference) his regular season numbers, then he can still look very good.
In order to see whether Pau is struggling or not, you have to look at his playoffs numbers relative to his regular season numbers. While the numbers showed that they are up from the regular season numbers, his minutes have went up considerably as well. This is important because it showed that he didn't really raise his numbers, but rather, his regular season numbers were low because we wanted to protect his bad back and ankle. Now I can't say that (without detail calcuations) that his production is down either, so let's say that it's the same, which is actually still very good. In fact, considering the difference in intensity and quality of competition, just simply maintaining the numbers should already be considered raising your game, except right now, we're talking about digging, i.e raising your game as much as possible.
In addition, we have played 4 home games to 2 road games, with 2 very tough road games coming up. In order for him to even just maintain that average, he's going to have to make some of those shots I'm talking about.
Finally, he hasn't even had to go against the toughest defenders. Boozer is the worst defender that he'll be going against in these playoffs, and Camby may be a good defender, but he's no Duncan, KG or even Chandler. Take all these into account, then you could say that Pau is playing half a level below his regular season numbers, which I guess could qualify as choking. Now, that doesn't mean that he'll remain that way. After all, no reasons why this concept of stepping up is exclusive to just guys like Kobe and Duncan. |
Not bad, but you have not taken the main point of my talk, the fact that everybody who has played any kind of sport (and I´m not meaning in the PlayStation) knows that the more minutes you play, the more you get tired. And when you´re tired, your FG% and FT% and rebounding usually decreases significantly. Again, Pau only rested 4 minutes in the 2nd game and is the Laker with more played minutes in the playoffs ¿Something to say about it?
Add the fact Okur, Boozer and Millsap are 16, 13 and 8 lbs. over him. And add the fact Utah is the 4th team in the differential picked rebounds-allowed rebounds with + 3.07 and the 1st in allowed rebounds with only 37.8 per game. That says a lot about Utah´s abilities and says Pau and LA are not struggling more than the rest of teams in the NBA.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable2.html?cnf=1&prd=1#top
Exercise: Watch again that alley oop Pau made in the first game, the one when Radman stole the ball and passed it to Kobe. It´s probably the worst alley oop I´ve ever seen. Pau hardly was some inches over the floor.
BTW ¿¿Camby may be a good defender but he´s not Duncan or Garnett or even Chandler??  Please, dude, Camby won the best defensive player award just one year ago, and was the best blocker in 1998 and 2006. ¿And Chandler or Duncan, in defensive terms?  |
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kop5789
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I know that the more minutes you play, the harder it is to maintain those numbers. That's pretty obvious from watching the games. The problem is that you're assuming that Pau couldn't have played these minutes in the regular season anyway. He was already playing 37 min on the Grizz, considering how much more we push our players here and that he doesn't have to be the focus of teams anymore, I'd say he easily could have played 40, without dropping off(probably not at the beginning though, as we needed to build up his stamina first). We kept his minutes low due to his bad back and ankle.
You say, it's a testament that he was able to maintain those numbers because the intensity is much higher. Yeah, but I already credited him with that. Plus, he has had some "easy" competition(relatively of course) so far and the sample size is relatively small. If he doesn't push hard in the next two games, then those averages can drop real quick. |
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Ramballa
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 307
Location: Covina
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Coville wrote: |
| Ramballa wrote: |
| Coville wrote: |
| We're winning, stop complaining. |
dont respond to the post man.. he brought up some good points.. if u have nothing to say dont talk.  |
The team is 6-0 in the playoffs, Pau is dominating most front lines not in terms of physical play, but a threat. He's a guy that can't be left alone on either end.
While he isn't a physical player, the threat of him inside is enough alone to open up things for others. Boozer is in foul trouble because he can't rebound over Pau so he has to go trhough him, aka foul..
Pau in addition is a man you can't leave alone on D, it has opened up lay ups, passing lanes, and easy dunks for everyone, most importantly Kobe.
Farmar is in his 2nd year, he is playing off the bench, and he is, gasp, showing some signs of inexperience in the playoffs?!?
Gasp Batman, what will we do, lets just quit now. |
gasp, gasp.. looks like the op predicted what could be our problem for this game.. farmar hasnt made a shot and Pau hasnt been that great too.. next time think before you say something. |
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bumrusherer
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 8605
Location: Neverland
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Both -13 on the +/- stat tonight.
Kobe was +3 by comparison and Lamar was -1 by comparison.
Last edited by bumrusherer on Fri May 09, 2008 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lakerfan2
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 2721
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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strange, both performed terrble tonight.
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karacha
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 15499
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Pau simply can't get physical with them. That's his only problem, that won't go away. He won't get calls in Utah, so he'll have to deal with it.
There's no reason for me to complain (although this is obviously a problem or him), because it will never change. It would be a waste of time to post 10-15 posts on this.
It's like... should Fisher drive more and go for layups? Answer: no, because that's not his game.
Pau will be OK. He does not have experience in the playoffs, this is his chance to get it. He has to learn.
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BDG
ClubLakers.com Administrator
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 34882
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Both were absolute garbage tonight.
I can forgive Pau because he's had some big games for us in the playoffs ... but I don't know where Farmar's head is at.
Both are going to have to step it up on Sunday.
If Pau can just not let Boozer dominate, we'll have a good shot at winning.
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Legendary
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 2367
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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We're going to need more from Pau. I'm disappointed in the rebounding effort more than anything. How in the hell does Boozer get 20 rebounds?
Farmar looks likes he's just trying too hard and in the process is making horrible decisions.
Last edited by Legendary on Fri May 09, 2008 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bb7793
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 1325
Location: Ya momma's house
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ok this is just my observation and mind you I missed the first half of tonights game but I have been thinking this the entire series:
I wonder why Phil hasnt considered using Sasha at the point to guard Deron at times and perhaps give Newble some minutes here and there. The offense is pretty much about moving so as long as he moves around he can not be a liability. Its not like Farmar was doing anything on Offense recently. What does he have to lose? Newble can guard the other teams shooter if they have Korver in there which is usually with the 2nd unit, or he can guard Harpring who basically manhandles Luke. What do we have to lose? Farmar has looked like he needs a taxi and a bus pass to hang with Williams.
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karacha
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 15499
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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BTW, I do agree that Newble can play better D on Deron than Farmar. Why not give him 2 minutes and see how that works. Tell him to be physical, the dude is super-strong. It's not like he has to be the PG on offense anyway.
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leftymo
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 9045
Location: New York the dump.
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| bumrusherer wrote: |
Both -13 on the +/- stat tonight.
Kobe was +3 by comparison and Lamar was -1 by comparison. |
The two worst Lakers this series.
I'm not sure what happened to Farmar, his game has deteriorated considerably. |
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Radner
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 11230
Location: The World of Social Equilibrium
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Am I the only one who is questioning Phil for not putting in Mbenga after Pau was struggling defensively?
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Enforcer
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 1791
Location: The internets
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| karacha wrote: |
| BTW, I do agree that Newble can play better D on Deron than Farmar. Why not give him 2 minutes and see how that works. Tell him to be physical, the dude is super-strong. It's not like he has to be the PG on offense anyway. |
I also wish Newble would get some playing time. I guess Phil doesn't feel comfortable using players who haven't been in the system for too long. |
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Legendary
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 2367
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Radner wrote: |
| Am I the only one who is questioning Phil for not putting in Mbenga after Pau was struggling defensively? |
I was thinking the same thing. If anything I'd like to see Mbenga manning the middle if Farmar is in the game especially.
DJ would be a much better deterent to have down low seeing as how Farmar can't stay in front of Deron. That may prevent the layup drills Deron has been having whenever Fisher has to go to the bench. |
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mapabu1
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 2295
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I too would like to see Newble get his chance to guard Deron since it's pretty obvious that Jordan can't. |
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kwembinekwek
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 1329
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Trade Farmar
BRING JAVARIS CRITTENTON BACK.
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borri
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 2918
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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84 mins = 11 rebounds..................................................  |
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Valentino Rossi
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 182
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| kwembinekwek wrote: |
Trade Farmar
BRING JAVARIS CRITTENTON BACK. |
=[]======================
How quickly you forgot the regular season? The bench and Pau are the reason we are in the 2nd rd.....
Do you even understand the game, if any fault lies on Jordans game its with Phil, for 13 of 16 mins he had to Guard D Will, who out weighs him by 25 plus lbs, Kobe calls him the Cadilacc in a sea of Honda points guards....He is a sherman tank...
Did you think they would just roll over and let us take 3 st from them?
Psst...they are a very good team, they only lost 4 games all season at home......
Pathetic.....
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BDG
ClubLakers.com Administrator
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 34882
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Radner wrote: |
| Am I the only one who is questioning Phil for not putting in Mbenga after Pau was struggling defensively? |
I was calling for DJ to start the 4th, but I wasn't real pissed at Phil ... we even made our run with Gasol out there in the 4th.
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Slava laughed at the suggestion his skills might be affected by the down time. "Are you kidding?" he said. "Basketball is like ball. It's all a circle."
BEST VIDEO EVER ... AND AND THE SECOND BEST. |
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kop5789
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Ramballa wrote: |
| Coville wrote: |
| Ramballa wrote: |
| Coville wrote: |
| We're winning, stop complaining. |
dont respond to the post man.. he brought up some good points.. if u have nothing to say dont talk. |
The team is 6-0 in the playoffs, Pau is dominating most front lines not in terms of physical play, but a threat. He's a guy that can't be left alone on either end.
While he isn't a physical player, the threat of him inside is enough alone to open up things for others. Boozer is in foul trouble because he can't rebound over Pau so he has to go trhough him, aka foul..
Pau in addition is a man you can't leave alone on D, it has opened up lay ups, passing lanes, and easy dunks for everyone, most importantly Kobe.
Farmar is in his 2nd year, he is playing off the bench, and he is, gasp, showing some signs of inexperience in the playoffs?!?
Gasp Batman, what will we do, lets just quit now. |
gasp, gasp.. looks like the op predicted what could be our problem for this game.. farmar hasnt made a shot and Pau hasnt been that great too.. next time think before you say something. |
Well, this thread wasn't made as a prediction, but thanks for the compliment anyway. You might wonder, was there any way to prevent this? Well, other than not playing Farmar, then probably not. It was just hard to tell if his problem was confidence or if he's just overwhelmed by the defense.
As far as Gasol, they're playing him tight and he doesn't have any good counters. I wonder if a bank shot will help a bit, because he's just not able to drive without getting stripped out there. And it makes no sense for a 7'1 guy to have this much trouble creating shots against a 6'9 guy. I mean, how the heck did he average 19 in the first place?
IMO, we wasted too many possessions going to Gasol, even though the strategy of going to Kobe until he's tired and THEN going to Gasol/role player to buy him some time was working just fine. What's the difference you ask? Well, the difference is that here his mind is more in synch with the situation because now he KNOWS that he has to step up. That can make a big difference because I've noticed in these playoffs if you run a set for a role player, like Sasha, even when Kobe or Gasol is doing well, it can cause him to think, wait, am I supposed to be taking this shot? Similarly, there is a hierarchy thinking when you run a play for Gasol, if he knows Kobe is doing well. Plus, it was clear right from the start that Gasol was having problems with the pressure, so it made little sense to keep force-feeding him.
Since Kobe is still your most dangerous offensive player, if you don't use him until he's tired, then you're not maximizing your offense. The rest of the guys should be used only to buy Kobe rest. I'd say Phil definitely overcoached this one. |
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kop5789
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Valentino Rossi wrote: |
| kwembinekwek wrote: |
Trade Farmar
BRING JAVARIS CRITTENTON BACK. |
=[]======================
How quickly you forgot the regular season? The bench and Pau are the reason we are in the 2nd rd.....
Do you even understand the game, if any fault lies on Jordans game its with Phil, for 13 of 16 mins he had to Guard D Will, who out weighs him by 25 plus lbs, Kobe calls him the Cadilacc in a sea of Honda points guards....He is a sherman tank...
Did you think they would just roll over and let us take 3 st from them?
Psst...they are a very good team, they only lost 4 games all season at home......
Pathetic..... |
I thought that we could wait till the Finals to go with a 3-man guard rotation (going to a 3-guard rotation right now might wear out Kobe and Fish too much), but it looks like we may have to start that already, and hope that no one gets injured.
On the other hand, this game was close enough that Phil probably wouldn't change anything yet. He'll probably think that we just need Farmar to execute better, that's all. Of course, that's a lot easier said than done, especially when you have such little time and the games so high-stake, to get his confidence back(if we get into a major heavy pressure situation, then I doubt anything he says could get Farmar back on track.) |
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kray28
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 4796
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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You guys need to stop panicking.
Farmar is a second year guy....eventhough he started in the playoffs for us last year, he is still learning. And in this case, he has a very unfavorable matchup. All of this is critical for his learning as well.
As for Pau, he needs to adjust his game. He can't do much about getting outmuscled, but he can minimize those turnovers, and he can adjust his offensive game.
As for Phil....this is why he's the highest paid coach in the game, he will make some adjustments. His gameplan for this one wasn't bad, the players just didn't pull it off.
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Joe_Blow
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 1804
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Pau doesn't need to learn to be more physical... it's not what he does.
On the other hand, he does need to learn how to "take" physicality, be more aggressive, tighen up, and not allow it to affect what he does.
With that said, TAKE A FREEKIN' STEP BACK, MAN!
Y'all realize THIS IS THE FIRST TIME Pau has ever experienced this in his career, right? He's being played extremely physical by an extremely physical team in the 2nd round of the playoffs, and he's experiencing refs allowing that stuff to take place on the opps home court. This is new for him, and he needs to figure it out. He won't do so by sittin' on the bench watching Mbenga mbeng.
It's time for Pau to take a step up in his career. He's dealing with stuff he's not used to, and instead of pissin' and moanin' to the refs, he needs to EXPECT that stuff and now how to deal with it w/out allowing to impact his game. Lucky for him, he's no longer "the man," and he just so happens to have the best "mentoring" coach to go along with one of the most competitive teammates in the history of the game.
Pau's a competitor. He will get it, and he will grow. Remember Bynum? In the end, this is good experience which will ready him for bigger challenges... like Boston. Just sit back, watch, and enjoy the ride.
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kray28
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 4796
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Hubie Brown had one thing right tonight. When the Lakers went down 10 or so in the second quarter (mainly due to the second unit pulling a spectacular no-show), he said the Lakers didn't need to change anything....just keep playing their game. But he emphasized that they needed to limit turnovers and maximize possessions.
The early turnovers were critical for us....a lot of it was because of physical play inside, and the Lakers (mainly Pau) inability to deal with it. He needs to protect the ball better and sell the contact better as well.
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MadMax
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 7816
Location: South Bay
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| kray28 wrote: |
| You guys need to stop panicking. |
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Joe_Blow
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 1804
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| kray28 wrote: |
Hubie Brown had one thing right tonight. When the Lakers went down 10 or so in the second quarter (mainly due to the second unit pulling a spectacular no-show), he said the Lakers didn't need to change anything....just keep playing their game. But he emphasized that they needed to limit turnovers and maximize possessions.
The early turnovers were critical for us....a lot of it was because of physical play inside, and the Lakers (mainly Pau) inability to deal with it.
He needs to protect the ball better and sell the contact better as well. |
I was totally with you except for that last sentence... that's the exact opposite of what he needed to do.
All of Utah was pissin' and moanin' about the FT disparity of Games 1 and 2. The media talked about, Sloan whined about it, fans are making conspiracy posters... heck, even some idiot in the LA Times tried to sell it.
It was a given, before the game even started, that the refs would absolutely allow Utah to play it's "physical" game w/out sending the Lakers parading to the line. Instead of "selling" better, Pau should have "expected" that he'd be roughed up and there'd be no calls. Apparently, he didn't expect that at all and actually wasted time lobying for a call.
I'm positive PJ probably set these guys expectations. Regardless, it's something Fish/Kobe know... it's something guys like Pau will learn.
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