Fisher's D

LakerzDQ · Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 588

I don't understand why Fisher can't finish even the easiest of layups. I don't expect him to do circus shots, but sometimes he can't even finish a completely open layup.

but he's been doing great vs. Deron Williams so far. This is the playoffs, where Fisher steps his game up. I love him so far in the playoffs. he's gonna be huge for us down the stretch.

7co7dy · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:53 am Post subject:

karacha · Joined: 01 Nov 2005 Posts: 15731

About Fish and layups... he should really just take a mid-range jumper instead of driving, even when he has space. Layup is a low % shot for Derek. Just hit the open J, 2 pts is 2 pts anyway.
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djblisk · Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 188

Fisher's defense has been superb these playoffs.

nosebleedbum · Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 1743

jimbo327 · Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Posts: 10272 Location: Where Else?

I think the only reason Fish has played good defense in this series because he knows what D Will likes to do. You can sometimes see that Fish anticipates a certain move before D Will even makes it. Because we all know that Fish didn't get any quicker over the years. Fish also knows when to bump Deron to try to get him to run a different play. You can see Deron bump back to get back into the space he wanted to run a certain play, but Fish almost always beats him to that space and holds his body to not allow D Will to set up the offense. This is why I think Fish has an edge in this series because he knows how the Utah Jazz operates and their offensive schemes. I'm just surprised this knowledge wasn't transferred to Farmar.

PnOySneakerBoi24 · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 1159 Location: Walnut

hes leading in steals during postseason i believe
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kop5789 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 504

kop5789 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 504

mapabu1 · Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 2592

Fisher's D has been very good so far

AndrewB17 · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject:

Fisher's defense has been great the 1st 2 games against Williams, but in Games 3 & 4 he quickly picked up 2 fouls and brought Famar off the bench. I do believe this series would have been 3-1 or 4-0 if Fisher didn't get in foul trouble.

kop5789 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 504

L4L · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject:

^^Farmar literally assisted Williams in racking up a majority of those numbers. Fisher is currently +33.3 points per 100 possessions, in the playoffs, because of how terrible Farmar has been. A great degree of that is offensive, but 6.6 points per 48 minutes is nothing to sneeze at and that is the amount more we give up with Farmar in the game at this point. For what its worth, Farmar is currently -37.7 points per 100 possessions.

I hope you don't still think Fisher is a cancer.
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PG: Steve Nash, Stephon Marbury, Delonte West
SG: Ray Allen, Francisco Garcia, DeShawn Stevenson
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C: Kendrick Perkins, Joel Przybilla, Rasho Nesterovic

MC · Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 2553

davriver290 · Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 2919

kop5789 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 504

Farmar hasn't been playing nearly enough to say that the majority of Deron's damage has been on him. As a matter of fact, from what I've seen, our D seems to be slightly better with Farmar than with Fisher. The problem is that Farmar is sucking so much offensively that it looks like that he's playing worse D, but in reality, it's the total difference in offense and defense that makes him look worse.

I don't know where L4L got his numbers but we can always go back and break it down game-by-game "THIS" series. I would bet that, defensively only, we give up slightly more per minute to D-Will with Fisher on the floor than with Farmar on the floor.

JSM · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject:

kop5789 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 504

JSM, I trust what I saw. The difference between Farmar and Fisher isn't the defense, it's the offense. Fisher is shooting 57% in this series, while Farmar is shooting a whopping 6.7%. That gives the appearance that Fisher is playing better D than Farmar, when in fact, it's his offense that's better.

Now I can't say for sure who's playing better defense without access to the numbers, but from what I've seen, our D is slightly better with Farmar than with Fisher. Even if I'm off a little bit, I can assure you that the difference between the two isn't the defense.

Thizz · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject:

kop5789 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 504

But man, how do you shoot 6.3%(I guess 6.7 was a little generous) from the field? I knew he was doing bad, but didn't think it was THIS bad. I mean, even Smush managed to shoot in the "teens."

kop5789 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 504

Well, I found the numbers, and the numbers showed that Fisher IS playing better D than Farmar, however, both are well-below average(Fisher allowing 19 PER against, Farmar 23, where 15 against is the average.) In addition, these numbers don't separate the 1st and 2nd rounds. And I never said that Fisher didn't play good D in the 1st round. After all, the numbers Iverson put up proved it(personally, I thought it was just okay, just that Iverson didn't dig hard enough, though in the end, all that matter are the numbers.) So if Fisher played good D in the 1st round, then the numbers for his 2nd round must be worse than what the current numbers showed. If we assumed that Farmar played better D in the 1st round than 2nd round, then his numbers for the 2nd round must be better than what the current average showed. Take that into account and one can say that Fisher and Farmar's D in the 2nd round is probably a wash.

In addition, I shouldn't have had to defend this Farmar vs Fisher argument in the first place, since the argument is falsely based on the premise that Fisher is playing good defense against D-Will, and that all the bad defense is being played by Farmar. Yet the numbers are showing that neither is playing good defense. In other words, once I can prove that Fisher is not playing good D, then that argument wouldn't exist. If it exists, it should be stated as: Fisher's D has been bad, but Farmar has been worse, which doesn't really negate my original argument, which is that Fisher is not playing good D on Williams.

L4L · Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject:

You specifically stated, "If you consider __insert XXX statline from D-Will" to be good defense (all the numbers were above his averages), then, sure, D-Fish is playing good defense. The fact the numbers were above average has much less to do with Fish than it does with Farmar. 82games.com is my source by the way.

Regular Season(when playing PG):
Deron Williams: 54.4 eFG%, 24.3 points per 48, 23.4 PER
Allen Iverson: 48.0 eFG%, 30.9 points per 48, 25.4 PER

Post Season:
Deron Williams: 59.1 eFG%, 23.9 points per 48, 23.2 PER
Allen Iverson: 45.7 eFG%, 30.7 points per 48, 22.3 PER

PGs against Fisher in the post season:
43.9 eFG%, 19.7 points per 48, 20.0 PER

PGs against Farmar in the post season:
53.0 eFG%, 26.0 points per 48, 22.8 PER

The numbers speak for themselves. These guys are racking up serious digits on high efficiency when Farmar is in the game.

Though I do agree that Fisher has played worse defensively in this round. A wash though when compared to Farmar? Not a chance.
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All-NBA Challenge Roster:
PG: Steve Nash, Stephon Marbury, Delonte West
SG: Ray Allen, Francisco Garcia, DeShawn Stevenson
SF: Paul Pierce, Shane Battier, Ruben Patterson
PF: Kevin Garnett, Kurt Thomas, Andray Blatche
C: Kendrick Perkins, Joel Przybilla, Rasho Nesterovic

pound4pound1 · Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 3564 Location: 818 LAKER NATION

oh syet! we have a L4L sighting

jimbo327 · Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Posts: 10272 Location: Where Else?

kop, you need some glasses if you think Farmar played any kind of defense. I saw Farmar laying out the red carpet in the paint for Deron. There was absolutely zero defense being played when Farmar vs Deron. Deron got to all the spots he wanted, he ran the pick and roll, he took it to the rack any time he felt like it. Hell, half the time, Farmar wasn't even in the frame during Deron's layup drill. And to actually compare Farmar's defense to Fisher, that's laughable. Fisher has been denying Deron from the easy drives, he's been making him change directions and staying in front of Deron for the majority of the game.

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