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wallangong
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
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Location: Colorado
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 Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: |
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i just find it funny how this site always complains about defense, defense, defense...but when it comes to a defensive player, all of a sudden it's offense, offense, offense. i'm sure the same people who clamored for Newble to get PT are now saying Kwame's offensive deficiencies outweigh his defensive abilities.
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nicehair911
Still Waiting For Ron
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
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Location: Wit so much drama in da LBC it's kinda hard bein Snoop D-O double G
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Danny Ainge wrote: |
| MDI wrote: |
For those who say he's a good man to man defender against bigs...
Do you think Kwame can fix the pick and roll which has been our achilles heel for nearly a decade now? I believe the P n R will be exploited big time when Kwame is in the game, exposing his poor anticipation and awareness on defense |
Actually his P & R defense was tops amongst Laker bigs while in LA, I know thats not saying much, but he does move his feet very well and has superhuman strength both upper and lower body. Offensively he has poor anticipation and awareness, no arguments there.
I say roll the dice for cheap. He does in fact know the offense, is relatively young, and gives good energy in the paint. In spot minutes say around 15 a game or so, he would fill in rather nicely. Plus Kwame is a good guy, other Lakers seemed to like him, especially Kobe.
Do it Mitch |
All very good points. Kwame was actually quite productive when he was in shape back in 05-06. If we can get him back in shape he could be really productive for us. For the minimum you can't find a better big man.
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HisAirness24
CL Sim League Manager
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| wallangong wrote: |
i just find it funny how this site always complains about defense, defense, defense...but when it comes to a defensive player, all of a sudden it's offense, offense, offense. i'm sure the same people who clamored for Newble to get PT are now saying Kwame's offensive deficiencies outweigh his defensive abilities.
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Weird, I just said that same thing. 
Kwame is a special case.
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borri
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| wallangong wrote: |
i just find it funny how this site always complains about defense, defense, defense...but when it comes to a defensive player, all of a sudden it's offense, offense, offense. i'm sure the same people who clamored for Newble to get PT are now saying Kwame's offensive deficiencies outweigh his defensive abilities.
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You got it backwards man. This site has been and always will be about offense, offense, offense.
Defense discussion only comes up when we lose.....and then it gets forgotten by the next day.
Yes I agree wholeheartedly about bringing Kwame back.....
1. He probably can be had for cheap.
2. He ALREADY KNOWS THE TRI and the players.
3. He brings good man D. If there's any doubt, just troll over to the Spurs forums and ask them about Kwame. Let's just say, the VAST majority of them were VERY VERY happy that Gasoft was guarding TD instead of Kwame.
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crucifido
Clublakers Analyst
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 4935
Location: Costa Mesa, California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Re: Bynum
Drama has to be manufactured somewhere around the Lakers. The Kobe thing settles down and now people love to dredge up dirt elsewhere. Its the price you pay for being one the league's 2 premiere franchises.
Re: Kwame
I'd take him back (on the cheap) alongside a tandem of Bynum and Mbenga - no problem. Less minutes for him won't impact the team as heavily as it did when the Lakers were essentially forced to start him.
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wallangong
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 1420
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| borri wrote: |
| wallangong wrote: |
i just find it funny how this site always complains about defense, defense, defense...but when it comes to a defensive player, all of a sudden it's offense, offense, offense. i'm sure the same people who clamored for Newble to get PT are now saying Kwame's offensive deficiencies outweigh his defensive abilities.
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You got it backwards man. This site has been and always will be about offense, offense, offense.
Defense discussion only comes up when we lose.....and then it gets forgotten by the next day.
Yes I agree wholeheartedly about bringing Kwame back.....
1. He probably can be had for cheap.
2. He ALREADY KNOWS THE TRI and the players.
3. He brings good man D. If there's any doubt, just troll over to the Spurs forums and ask them about Kwame. Let's just say, the VAST majority of them were VERY VERY happy that Gasoft was guarding TD instead of Kwame. |
i feel like when it comes to complaining, it's usually about defense (unless your initials are LO  ). since we had one of the best (if not the best) offense last year, there really isn't much to complain about on offense except particular games where some player(s) just have atrocious games.
when it comes to trying to make roster improvements though, most people come up with ideas for offensive-minded players.
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funkychunky
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
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Location: L.A., CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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[quote="borri"]
| wallangong wrote: |
| Let's just say, the VAST majority of them were VERY VERY happy that Gasoft was guarding TD instead of Kwame. |
True Dat. Plus, I think he's one of the few bigs out there that can guard Yao straight up. And how can you say no to THIS(www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC-KP4dL98M) for the veteran's minimum?  |
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Weezy
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| wallangong wrote: |
i just find it funny how this site always complains about defense, defense, defense...but when it comes to a defensive player, all of a sudden it's offense, offense, offense. i'm sure the same people who clamored for Newble to get PT are now saying Kwame's offensive deficiencies outweigh his defensive abilities.
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The thing is, I don't see him as this great defensive player that everyone else does. He does one thing, body guys up and be a wall occasionally. He doesn't block shots, he gets murdered on the pick n roll, he's not a great rebounder and he often looks lost, not the sharpest tool in the shed if you know what I mean. He's got one strength, he's big, that's it. I don't remember him being this big defensive stopper and enforcer, I think the legend and myth has grown since he left and we saw how weak Pau was at defense down low aside from the occasional shot block.
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ScoobySnackz
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Did anyone catch this part in the article..
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| Then there’s Jackson’s fascination with Sacramento forward Ron Artest. Would the Lakers trade Lamar Odom to get him? Jeanie Buss supposedly insists that Odom is safe, but the Busses are moving through another summer of discontent, looking for an answer. |
LINK
It looks Odom is gonna be gone soon.
Scooby - |
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wallangong
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 1420
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Weezy wrote: |
| wallangong wrote: |
i just find it funny how this site always complains about defense, defense, defense...but when it comes to a defensive player, all of a sudden it's offense, offense, offense. i'm sure the same people who clamored for Newble to get PT are now saying Kwame's offensive deficiencies outweigh his defensive abilities.
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The thing is, I don't see him as this great defensive player that everyone else does. He does one thing, body guys up and be a wall occasionally. He doesn't block shots, he gets murdered on the pick n roll, he's not a great rebounder and he often looks lost, not the sharpest tool in the shed if you know what I mean. He's got one strength, he's big, that's it. I don't remember him being this big defensive stopper and enforcer, I think the legend and myth has grown since he left and we saw how weak Pau was at defense down low aside from the occasional shot block. |
Kwame was actually our best PnR defenderfor a while. the problem was his knee and ankle injury in the Chicago game. he rushed coming back and when Bynum went down was thrust back into the starting lineup when he really was still out of shape and now had a pretty bad knee and ankle sprain.
i'm not saying all of his deficiencies were due to that. but they really did affect his defense and mobility on the PnR. what's fresh on the mind of Lakers fans is his demise as soon as Bynum went down, particularly the PHX game. let's face it, Kwame doesn't have a strong mentality. considering he just isn't as good as Bynum, fans were sure to be letdown when he had to replace AB. he let it get to his head and collapsed. i think he'd be perfectly fine in a limited role with little to no expectations.
from what i remember, a healthy and in shape Kwame would be great to have for about 10-15 mpg.
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wallangong
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| ScoobySnackz wrote: |
Did anyone catch this part in the article..
| Quote: |
| Then there’s Jackson’s fascination with Sacramento forward Ron Artest. Would the Lakers trade Lamar Odom to get him? Jeanie Buss supposedly insists that Odom is safe, but the Busses are moving through another summer of discontent, looking for an answer. |
LINK
It looks Odom is gonna be gone soon.
Scooby - |
they've been saying stuff like this since the Finals ended. it's pure speculation and i won't believe any rumor about Odom until it's a done deal.
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SignPippenNow
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| I wish they could get Kwame and get rid of Mihm myself. If Kwame would sign for 2.5 or 3 million, maybe someone would throw a second round pick at LA for Mihm. I don't think Mihm will ever get back to where he was before that serious injury. I hope he does but it is dangerous to count on him. I know all of Kwame's shortcomings, but I also know of his strengths too. To me, I feel better about Kwame coming into game than Mihm or even Mbenga. |
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DB24
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Kwame would have done a better job on KG in the finals.
Pau Gasol defense was non existent. |
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Weezy
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 21602
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| wallangong wrote: |
Kwame was actually our best PnR defenderfor a while. the problem was his knee and ankle injury in the Chicago game. he rushed coming back and when Bynum went down was thrust back into the starting lineup when he really was still out of shape and now had a pretty bad knee and ankle sprain.
i'm not saying all of his deficiencies were due to that. but they really did affect his defense and mobility on the PnR. what's fresh on the mind of Lakers fans is his demise as soon as Bynum went down, particularly the PHX game. let's face it, Kwame doesn't have a strong mentality. considering he just isn't as good as Bynum, fans were sure to be letdown when he had to replace AB. he let it get to his head and collapsed. i think he'd be perfectly fine in a limited role with little to no expectations.
from what i remember, a healthy and in shape Kwame would be great to have for about 10-15 mpg. |
You are right about the injuries slowing him down, he was better before them, but the thing is he was never right after them, just like Mihm. What is the guarantee he's healthy now or over them, Phil or whoever said that his injuries were bad and that he'd probably never be the same. I'd change 'great' to 'adequate' though, Kwame in any shape or form was never 'great'.
And what if Bynum goes down again and Kwame's asked to play more minutes and we have to rely on him again? What does that weak mentality do for him then, does it come back? Most likely it does. I just don't see teams with weak minded players winning championships, it's why we lost to the Celtics in part. Odom disappeared, Pau was shaken and pretty much invisible, imagine Kwame freakin Brown in the Finals, he'd turn and run screaming from the ball before he even had a chance to not catch it. I just don't like it, maybe it works, but it's a slim chance to me, I just don't like the idea of bringing back a failed experiment.
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LAL818
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| At least the article wasn't about Brian Cook. |
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wallangong
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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^ to Weezy...
i agree there's no telling if Kwame will be the same. but from what i've heard regarding his workouts so far this offseason he seems to be alright. my only concern would be his weight. you could tell as the season wore on that he was gaining weight. obviously Kwame isn't a workhorse, but i'm sure a lot of the weight gain was due to the injury.
if he can come back looking like he did in 06-07, i'd say he's a safer bet than Mihm as a back up center. however, if he's overweight, then there's probably a decent chance he turns into Oliver Miller v 2.0.
oh and also about his shaky confidence. if Bynum goes down, i'd keep Kwame's role the same, except maybe a few more minutes against some bulkier teams. just go back to Pau at C and Odom at PF and keep Kwame in a limited role. unfortunately when Bynum went down Kwame was the only active center, which was not good for all parties involved.
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karacha
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Although I am not a Kwame supporter - I'd take him back. Cheap.
I mean, not as a starter, he would be bad, but to play backup for 10-12 minutes, behind Bynum and Pau? Are you kidding me? Kwame would do really well. We need someone to replace Turiaf, and no one can push Kwame around. No one. He is much bigger and stronger than Ronny.
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lakerfan2
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Kwame is worth 2 years - $7 million at the most.
I'd take Mbenga for 3 years - $7 million though. It's cheaper, he has better hands, and has more room to learn, whereas we've seen what Kwame can do (or can't).
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D1ZzY24
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Kwame FREAKIN' Brown!?  A lot of people are blinded by his so-called above average "defense". It's pretty sad to see how many people want him back after bashing him just a few months ago. Like Weezy said, I can't believe how fast some people forget how AWFUL his offense was and how out of sink he looked on the court. Yeah most of you want him back for his "defense" but while on the court, he is forced to play offense as well. And who cares if he knows the "offense", it's not like he performed well in it. |
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Armani
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:56 am Post subject: |
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i wouldn't mind signing him for the min. he's still a solid man to man defender.offensively he's crap.
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Tradeodom
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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here we go again, as much as I was happy to see Kwame leave, I think that because of his tri exp and yes he can play d when he wants to, the lakers will probably try to bring him back cheap. As a back-up it couldn't hurt and as far as him being better than Mbenga, well, lets just say that it's like comparing Calvin Booth to Eric Dampier.
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magic2kb8
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knm131
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Weezy wrote: |
| wallangong wrote: |
Kwame was actually our best PnR defenderfor a while. the problem was his knee and ankle injury in the Chicago game. he rushed coming back and when Bynum went down was thrust back into the starting lineup when he really was still out of shape and now had a pretty bad knee and ankle sprain.
i'm not saying all of his deficiencies were due to that. but they really did affect his defense and mobility on the PnR. what's fresh on the mind of Lakers fans is his demise as soon as Bynum went down, particularly the PHX game. let's face it, Kwame doesn't have a strong mentality. considering he just isn't as good as Bynum, fans were sure to be letdown when he had to replace AB. he let it get to his head and collapsed. i think he'd be perfectly fine in a limited role with little to no expectations.
from what i remember, a healthy and in shape Kwame would be great to have for about 10-15 mpg. |
And what if Bynum goes down again and Kwame's asked to play more minutes and we have to rely on him again? |
Don't worry about this so much. If Bynum goes down, Pau shifts to 5, Odom to 4, and we bring a bench 3 off to play Odom's role (probably Ariza).
The only way is going to get any substantial minutes, is if two of Bynum/Pau/Odom get hurt, and if that happens, whether we have your choice of Jake Voskuhl in there instead of Kwame doesn't change anything. |
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knm131
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think the majority of the oppposition to getting Kwame back is because we've already had Kwame before. There's nothing new to research, or information to gather.
People are bored in the offseason, and just want some new information to digest and discuss. While I don't think this should be the primary motivation for not getting Kwame, I kind of understand it.
From a pure basketball and team management perspective though, if Kwame is available for cheap, it's really the only reasonable option for backup center. |
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Kobe Bryant 8
CL's Voice of Reason
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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We'd be stupid to not want him as a 10mpg center for cheap.
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#1_Kobe_fan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| trodgers wrote: |
| I'd take Kwame back in a heartbeat. |
So, you're prepared to see again those dropped passes, missed lay-ups, air-ball during free throws and weak dunk attempts? No thanks.
I'd rather give the time to Benga.
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OCLakersFan247
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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hed be a backup and if hes a cheap backup ill take him. hes worth a good 6 fouls. alot better than mihms six fouls. he can just go in and bang bodies. do we need any more offensive power? no we don't. he isnt a starter he is a backup. people act like mbenga is some great backup. he sucks. he constantly overholds the ball and takes fadeaways from 15 feet out. if we get him for cheap why not? whats the harm?
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Tradeodom
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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