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Lal-mtl
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1060
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 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| unpossibl1 wrote: |
I really like Caron. He is one of the true good guys in the league, and plays with a lot of heart.
However, reality is that after this season, he won't be a Laker. He will command 10 mil + per year, and I just don't see the Lakers paying that. Not when having him means that he either has to come off the bench or LO has to play out of position.
I don't know what deals are out there for Caron. All I know is we have to trade him. I hate to say it, because he is one of my favorites, but we have to trade him.
If Kwame Brown is the best young big we can get then so be it. Sure, I would love to get more for Caron, but I don't know what is being offered for him.
Even if we do get Kwame though, let's say he gets 35 minutes a night, pushing his averages up to roughly 15/9 (that would basically be his current production level with more minutes). I could live with that. But what if switching teams does for Kwame what it did for Jermaine Oneal? Then it will look like we got a major steal, especially if we are getting Kwame for the rumored 6 mil a year.
So, would you rather lose Caron after one season(or pay him 10+ mil a year),or get Kwame for 6 a year?
I am ok with the deal, I can take it or leave it. If we don't make the trade, then I will just keep my fingers crossed that something better will come along before the trade deadline. If we do make the deal, then welcome to LA Kwame. Go see Mr. Bryant, I am sure he will want you to tag along for workouts with him and Andrew Bynum. |
Can't agree with you more. I see Caron leaving next year. If we can get a 7' young players in return, so be it. In case some of us didn't notice, we're still rebuilding. PJ is only (along with $30mil other reasons) there to prove to people wrong about him not having success with finished products and all. I hope we get a first round pick as well.
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| GuRu wrote: |
| Muggle313 wrote: |
| Moreover, Ric Bucher said that he feels that as the NBA gets closer to the July 22nd date to begin trades, Kwame Brown's stock is going to go way up and Caron Butler will not be enough to bring in Brown. |
Thats interesting....
ric bucher ususally does a decent job regarding his feelers for the NBA and what it'll take to get a deal done. If Bucher doesnt think Caron is enough to land Kwame, than my fears may have been realized. The league has finally started to see how commonplace a slasher SF is in the NBA |
with caron's skillset the best case scenario he turn out to be like latrell sprewell in his prime. but there's no way he' gonna become that player on the lakers. why are we so scared to trade caron? doesnt anyone else think the othe deals fell through cuz caron isnt enough... forget magloire, where are we gonna get another big from? if we sit on this roster the way it is then thats something to be scared of. im more than certain caron's value will go down the closer we get to training camp. teams will haggle us on every trade. im also certain we will not get the type of talent everyone around here seems to be hopelessly waiting for. kwame is a good pick and we'd have to move another salary to match kwame's new contract. we'd free some roster space and get some frontcourt help at the same time. |
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 69942
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Don't we have a forum for this type talk? I think I will send this topic in there and the other Kwame thread, as well.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| maddprophet wrote: |
| i don't think caron brings much more off the bench than what we already get from jj |
who spells kobe at the 2. he needs air. not jones he spells LO. thats the point
Atkins
caron
Jones/walton
turiaf/grant/slava
grant/bynum/slava
we need a 4 and PG. there are guys to be had. but this as bench is nice. |
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maddprophet
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Hotlanta, GA.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Lal-mtl wrote: |
| unpossibl1 wrote: |
I really like Caron. He is one of the true good guys in the league, and plays with a lot of heart.
However, reality is that after this season, he won't be a Laker. He will command 10 mil + per year, and I just don't see the Lakers paying that. Not when having him means that he either has to come off the bench or LO has to play out of position.
I don't know what deals are out there for Caron. All I know is we have to trade him. I hate to say it, because he is one of my favorites, but we have to trade him.
If Kwame Brown is the best young big we can get then so be it. Sure, I would love to get more for Caron, but I don't know what is being offered for him.
Even if we do get Kwame though, let's say he gets 35 minutes a night, pushing his averages up to roughly 15/9 (that would basically be his current production level with more minutes). I could live with that. But what if switching teams does for Kwame what it did for Jermaine Oneal? Then it will look like we got a major steal, especially if we are getting Kwame for the rumored 6 mil a year.
So, would you rather lose Caron after one season(or pay him 10+ mil a year),or get Kwame for 6 a year?
I am ok with the deal, I can take it or leave it. If we don't make the trade, then I will just keep my fingers crossed that something better will come along before the trade deadline. If we do make the deal, then welcome to LA Kwame. Go see Mr. Bryant, I am sure he will want you to tag along for workouts with him and Andrew Bynum. |
Can't agree with you more. I see Caron leaving next year. If we can get a 7' young players in return, so be it. In case some of us didn't notice, we're still rebuilding. PJ is only (along with $30mil other reasons) there to prove to people wrong about him not having success with finished products and all. I hope we get a first round pick as well. |
thats what i'm sayin
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Sean
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 296
Location: Pomona
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| GuRu wrote: |
Id be fine with Caron coming off the bench. In fact, ive been calling for it all year, but we didnt have the personnel to do it. if we can find someway to acquire a decent starting PF, and allow Caron to come off the bench them im all for it. |
me too.
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Muggle
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 980
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| wingnut wrote: |
| lalfan wrote: |
| Muggle313 wrote: |
What's bugging me more than anything about those up in arms with the Caron trade, are the fans who are claiming we must keep Butler because he gets along so well with Kobe. I'm sorry, but the time for appeasing to Kobe Bryant is long over, and we need to get players on the court as soon as possible that are going to help him get a championship, not be best buddies with him. |
true, last year was kobe's year to show he can carry this team without having management bring in significant help but he failed(injured or not), so this year it's not about kobe, it's about how to improve the team, management is more knowlegeable when it comes what's best for the team. |
you will lose this argument 100 out of a 100 times if your answer is kwame. |
Nope, not my answer at all...I just don't think we should hold onto Caron Bulter because he and Kobe are Best Friends Forever. That is the most illogical decision I've ever heard of.
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| Quote: |
It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.
--Albus Dumbledore, Harry Potter & The Chamber of Secrets |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Muggle313 wrote: |
| wingnut wrote: |
| lalfan wrote: |
| Muggle313 wrote: |
What's bugging me more than anything about those up in arms with the Caron trade, are the fans who are claiming we must keep Butler because he gets along so well with Kobe. I'm sorry, but the time for appeasing to Kobe Bryant is long over, and we need to get players on the court as soon as possible that are going to help him get a championship, not be best buddies with him. |
true, last year was kobe's year to show he can carry this team without having management bring in significant help but he failed(injured or not), so this year it's not about kobe, it's about how to improve the team, management is more knowlegeable when it comes what's best for the team. |
you will lose this argument 100 out of a 100 times if your answer is kwame. |
Nope, not my answer at all...I just don't think we should hold onto Caron Bulter because he and Kobe are Best Friends Forever. That is the most illogical decision I've ever heard of. |
there is actually a _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _saying that |
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LOUIE04
Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 180
Location: Born & Raised in LA/ Stationed in Miramar!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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This trade is so ridiculous i cant believe mitch is willing to even put this deal into consideration this trade will make so many fans dissapointed especially since carons potential was just starting to go up! If this trade is really serious i think Mitch shouls at least push for another player mybe Hayes! I believe that Caron for Brown is too one sided!!!!!    |
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DMK
Clublakers Analyst
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 15765
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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PF/C- Kwame Brown and PG- Juan Dixon
That would look very attractive for us.
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maddprophet
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Hotlanta, GA.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| wingnut wrote: |
| maddprophet wrote: |
| i don't think caron brings much more off the bench than what we already get from jj |
who spells kobe at the 2. he needs air. not jones he spells LO. thats the point
Atkins
caron
Jones/walton
turiaf/grant/slava
grant/bynum/slava
we need a 4 and PG. there are guys to be had. but this as bench is nice. |
that's like 5-8 minutes a game. and thats why we drafted von wafer, to basically fill the kareem rush role. but in the tri especially, a wing man can spell kobe for a few minutes, it doesn't have to be a traditional sg. even sasha backed up kobe at times last year, as well as luke. so keeping caron for those very few moments isn't realistic. again, jj gives us as much off the bench as caron would. but jj has zero trade value, thus caron must go
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Spark the ism, my expertism, is lyricism, my flow will take you over, like I was hypnotism..so where's the lighter.... |
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maddprophet
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Hotlanta, GA.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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ric bucher is gonna be on sportscenter to discuss larry brown, maybe he'll mention this trade talk.
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Spark the ism, my expertism, is lyricism, my flow will take you over, like I was hypnotism..so where's the lighter.... |
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noname
Good Call Stats Team
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 2647
Location: tel-aviv,israel
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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yesssssss,were about to hit platinum in less then 3 hours  |
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borri
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 2942
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Im going to play the peacekeeper in this cuz im reading some debates that conceivably could get out of hand. These are the things i can surmise concerning the apparent feeling concerning Caron.
CAMP A: Thinks Caron is worth more than just Kwame. I don't think anyone in this camp is opposed to trading Caron, they are taking issue with trading Caron for Kwame straight up. Despite our logjam at the 3, Caron is still a valuable commodity. Expiring K next year i believe? Low salary, and has shown flashes of brilliance, although extremely sporadic. Kwame on the other hand is a headcase with potential and is a big. It's been 4 years since he was drafted.....how much longer is he gonna take or will he ever take......That's what im feeling is the argument the people in this camp are having issue with. And its a valid argument. In addition, if we trade Caron for Kwame, does this mean we are giving up on better bigs like Magliore, Ratliff who can come in and help right away, player we KNOW what to expect from. With Kwame, none of us can really say what he will bring to the table, because in his 4 year career, he has brought very little, yet the "potential" tag still hangs on his doorstep.
CAMP B: Thinks Caron is an expendable piece, a dime a dozen type of player. Come on, it's just Caron Butler and we should trade him for whatever we can get. Which is also a valid argument.
Voice of Reason: Both camps want the Lakers to get better. Can't we all just get along? We all are Laker fans in the end. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| wingnut wrote: |
| VerbalMilk wrote: |
| wingnut wrote: |
| VerbalMilk wrote: |
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| No offense but did you read your last statement. Please dont go into he won with this dude etc. That argument is tired and bottomless. caron comes off the bench b/c PJ says he has to. the same with atkins. We have fine bench players with our current roster. WE NEED BENCH PLAYERS. Does Caron want to come off the bench? Does Kwame? |
Oh, don't worry, dawg, I have thick skin. But what I said about him winning was mainly due to MJ/Pip/Rodman and Shaq/Kobe than it was with BJ and Fish.
Now, why would PJ sit Butler? In favor of who? |
LO, Kobe. We need a 1 regardless if we can cover that with a trade great. Caron can spell both 2-3. think how great that would be. LO sits caron in. Kobe sits etc. LO and Kobe sit you put Jones and Caron in. |
Ok, I'm still a little thrown here because who starts at PF then if Odom starts at the 3? |
So kwame fills that hole? I mean seriously. he will get rolled up. AT least Turiaf brings .....something. I wouldput money on it that 4years of college and SPL and an entire training camp will put turiaf on equal ground, maybe astep just below brown at the start. the difference is turiaf has heart and is fine being just another role guy |
OH! So NOW I get it, you're saying START TURIAF, right? That's what I was unclear on.
So Mihm/Tur/Odom/Kobe/AD...Naw, not good enough for the West, bro. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| LOUIE04 wrote: |
| This trade is so ridiculous i cant believe mitch is willing to even put this deal into consideration this trade will make so many fans dissapointed especially since carons potential was just starting to go up! If this trade is really serious i think Mitch shouls at least push for another player mybe Hayes! I believe that Caron for Brown is too one sided!!!!! |
Yeah....Uh...Yeah...Hmm? Um, bro? If you start making decisions to appease the fans...Well...um...   |
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sirronstuff
Bible Belt Laker Fan
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7107
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Brown deal done? |
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| Savory Griddles wrote: |
| I just read on another board that ESPNews is reporting the Brown for Butler deal is done. Can anyone confirm this butt raping? |
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She was fevered. 
I miss my wife. :( |
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Lakerman91
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 3868
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Kwame Brown is a smoke screen people so calm down.
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"Its just a matter of time guys. Bynum WILL be a star in this league, I can promise you that."-Lakerman91
Posted Nov. 2005 |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| borri wrote: |
Im going to play the peacekeeper in this cuz im reading some debates that conceivably could get out of hand. These are the things i can surmise concerning the apparent feeling concerning Caron.
CAMP A: Thinks Caron is worth more than just Kwame. I don't think anyone in this camp is opposed to trading Caron, they are taking issue with trading Caron for Kwame straight up. Despite our logjam at the 3, Caron is still a valuable commodity. Expiring K next year i believe? Low salary, and has shown flashes of brilliance, although extremely sporadic. Kwame on the other hand is a headcase with potential and is a big. It's been 4 years since he was drafted.....how much longer is he gonna take or will he ever take......That's what im feeling is the argument the people in this camp are having issue with. And its a valid argument. In addition, if we trade Caron for Kwame, does this mean we are giving up on better bigs like Magliore, Ratliff who can come in and help right away, player we KNOW what to expect from. With Kwame, none of us can really say what he will bring to the table, because in his 4 year career, he has brought very little, yet the "potential" tag still hangs on his doorstep.
CAMP B: Thinks Caron is an expendable piece, a dime a dozen type of player. Come on, it's just Caron Butler and we should trade him for whatever we can get. Which is also a valid argument.
Voice of Reason: Both camps want the Lakers to get better. Can't we all just get along? We all are Laker fans in the end. |
I don't see where it was getting out of hand to where you had to come and play peacemaker, bro. It seemed pretty civil. But thanx...I guess?  |
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JSM
Clublakers Site Manager
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 69942
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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On ATR: Adande said that Kwame needs a heart transplant. He lost interest in the playoffs.
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jsm0331 wrote: |
| On ATR: Adande said that Kwame needs a heart transplant. He lost interest in the playoffs. |
thats what we want. Especially in a big |
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borri
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 2942
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| VerbalMilk wrote: |
| borri wrote: |
Im going to play the peacekeeper in this cuz im reading some debates that conceivably could get out of hand. These are the things i can surmise concerning the apparent feeling concerning Caron.
CAMP A: Thinks Caron is worth more than just Kwame. I don't think anyone in this camp is opposed to trading Caron, they are taking issue with trading Caron for Kwame straight up. Despite our logjam at the 3, Caron is still a valuable commodity. Expiring K next year i believe? Low salary, and has shown flashes of brilliance, although extremely sporadic. Kwame on the other hand is a headcase with potential and is a big. It's been 4 years since he was drafted.....how much longer is he gonna take or will he ever take......That's what im feeling is the argument the people in this camp are having issue with. And its a valid argument. In addition, if we trade Caron for Kwame, does this mean we are giving up on better bigs like Magliore, Ratliff who can come in and help right away, player we KNOW what to expect from. With Kwame, none of us can really say what he will bring to the table, because in his 4 year career, he has brought very little, yet the "potential" tag still hangs on his doorstep.
CAMP B: Thinks Caron is an expendable piece, a dime a dozen type of player. Come on, it's just Caron Butler and we should trade him for whatever we can get. Which is also a valid argument.
Voice of Reason: Both camps want the Lakers to get better. Can't we all just get along? We all are Laker fans in the end. |
I don't see where it was getting out of hand to where you had to come and play peacemaker, bro. It seemed pretty civil. But thanx...I guess? |
why am i not surprised at this response........... |
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Savory Griddles
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 6433
Location: AV,CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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I say we need to keep Butler for different reasons. He's in a contract year which means he'll be playing his butt off. At the trading deadline, he'd be the perfect candidate to trade with other expiring contracts for a disgruntled star. (ie Davis or Carter this year) Trade for Drew Gooden. We could probably do that for Miami's first rounder and Vlade. That would give us a good enough pf. We then use Butler along with George or Atkins at the deadline to pick up a top line player to go with Kobe and Odom.
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Jordan-esque
Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 4675
Location: So Cal in Sept
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerman91 wrote: |
| Kwame Brown is a smoke screen people so calm down. |
Ooh!
For who!? FOR WHO!!!!???
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Lakers Strategy:... 95%  ... +... 5%  ... = 100% |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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this community has
fever.... |
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vic5150
Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 520
Location: South Central Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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If this trade goes through I'll be in El Segundo at Mitch's office with a pistol!
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Yeah I cheated first but you cheated worse, now I feel like kicking you to the curb and kicking the whole curb off the earth - Chino XL |
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LakersCourt
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Man, he looks like Ben Wallace in that picture.  I personally wish he would go back to how his hair was in High School. I love who he is dunking on....Tony Battie
Last edited by LakersCourt on Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LakersCourt
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| vic5150 wrote: |
| If this trade goes through I'll be in El Segundo at Mitch's office with a pistol! |
Dude, you seriously you need to go sit down, turn on some Miles Davis and puff the magic dragon a few times. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| theres no satisfying you guys huh? well keep caron and let him walk away for free next summer. |
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garyxkoji
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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why does everyone wanan trade butler? i see nothing but stardom in him. In my opinion, if he comes off the bench we would have a good 6th man. Why sweat over butler when we got bigger stiffs to deal with
-george
-slava
-cook
-divac
-atkins
-grant
I mean if we can do something about these parasites, i dont even care about getting any value in return for grampa grants, or ametuer atkins, or even disabled divacs, but we could possibly get something for george slava and cook, maybe magloire?. Dang if the lakers handled this issue first and clear up the rocks off the bench, then we can sweat over butler. But i like butler, and if we get daniels it would be insane.
Projected line up outlook
pg- Daniels
G- Bryant
SF- Odom
PF- Mihm
C- Magloire (or even that undeveloped bynum can come off the bench, unless the zenmaster can bring out the best of him in a week or so..)
enjoy tha peace- gary
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