Skyblog: Kobe trade scenarios

Postby A Rush on Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:01 am

J.C. Smith wrote:I'd honestly rather have Deng and Gordon than Deng and Hinrich. Not only would Chicago not do Deng + Hinrich mostly likely, but I like our point guard spot in the future. I think both Crittenton and Farmar are going to be good players, Crittenton the better of the two. Gordon gives you a flashy guy who is fun to watch and helps put people in the seats, plus he fills a need... we have a hole at the 2 without Kobe.

If they offered Deng + Gordon + whatever we could throw in one of our extras if they want them (Cook for example), I don't see how we could turn it down if we're giving up on hopes of retaining Kobe.


Well, I'd personally much rather have Hinrich than either farmar or Crit but Bulls won't even consider that.

So Deng, Noah and Gordon would be a good deal for Kobe (and throw Cook into the dea just because). Just Deng and Gordon... No thanks.
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Postby J.C. Smith on Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:46 am

A Rush wrote:Well, I'd personally much rather have Hinrich than either farmar or Crit but Bulls won't even consider that.


I like Hinrich a lot myself, a good player on both ends of the court. I just think that we traded Kobe we're looking at having Crit and Farmar at the point, I think Crit could be a future all-star, he should be a solid player regardless. But at the shooting guard we're left with Evans and Sasha. Those should be 9th-12th men. Though I guess if you obtained Hinrich you could always to and trade other pieces for a shooting guard. I don't think they'll give him up though.
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Postby Joe_Blow on Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:08 am

melo061 wrote:^^

If that's the case, that they do that then i'm done with the franchise. No integrity and Tanking is not what the Laker's are about. It's a shame fans have fallen into that mindset.


Integrity?

Integrity is demanding a trade yet refusing to withdraw your no-trade clause.

Throwing away the knife after it's been handed to you with explicit directions to choose between cutting your throat or slitting your wrist is just survival.
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Postby crucifixion on Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:50 am

The funny thing is, if you go to Chicago boards, they are CONTEMPLATING a Gordon, Duhon, PJ deal for Kobe.

Yes, no Kirk, and no Deng in those deals. To the fans, the deal dies if anyone of those two are in there.

And those fans are CONTEMPLATING if Kobe is worth it to give up Gordon, Duhon and change. LOL indeed.

It's like the homie Nate Dogg says..."Every other city I go, Every other town we go, I see the same ho---mer's"
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Postby Joe_Blow on Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:01 am

crucifixion wrote:The funny thing is, if you go to Chicago boards, they are CONTEMPLATING a Gordon, Duhon, PJ deal for Kobe.

Yes, no Kirk, and no Deng in those deals. To the fans, the deal dies if anyone of those two are in there.

And those fans are CONTEMPLATING if Kobe is worth it to give up Gordon, Duhon and change. LOL indeed.

It's like the homie Nate Dogg says..."Every other city I go, Every other town we go, I see the same ho---mer's"


That's because he's viewed by virtually every other city as "tainted goods." There's bad that comes with the good, and it has to be considered.

Question: do you think those same fans would feel the same if it was LeBron being considered rather than Kobe?

It's sad really... I think Sky hit it on the nose with his "Diva fatigue" comment. He is viewed -- even by a number of his own fans -- as a high maintenance Diva. IMO, that's why his market value seems to be slightly above TMac when, in reality, he's about twice the player.
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Postby J.C. Smith on Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:49 am

Joe_Blow wrote:It's sad really... I think Sky hit it on the nose with his "Diva fatigue" comment. He is viewed -- even by a number of his own fans -- as a high maintenance Diva. IMO, that's why his market value seems to be slightly above TMac when, in reality, he's about twice the player.


I'd agree with that. For years I gave Kobe a pass because I just felt he was in a rough situation coming into the league. I felt that Shaq poisoned his team against him, that he had to live in Shaq's shadow, and Shaq wanted to keep him there, even when it got to the point where it was time for Kobe to move to the forefront, Shaq wouldn't let it happen. So between that and Colorado, he got a bad rep. It got worse after Phil's back, but I thought Phil was just being self-serving and bitter that the Lakers choose Kobe over him. The Malone situation blew up, and I thought (and still do) that if Karl made a pass at his wife, Kobe was in his right to blow up. I'm amazed it went that long before it came out. Just a bad streak of luck for a guy living under a microscope. Whatever Kobe's issues, we dealt with them because he was such a great player and so much fun to watch. After his trade demands this summer though and the finger pointing and everything else, I've basically given in. I think he's the best in the league, and as that I hate the thought of him in another uniform.

I've woken up to the fact that drama is never far from the guy. Now this is coming from a long time fan of Kobe's, he's been one of my five favorite players since he came into the league. I can only imagine the thoughts that people who haven't admired the guys play over the years have to think. Well I don't have to imagine their thoughts are echoed in second rate news articles by second rate, and occaionally first rate journalists across the globe. The games best player becomes available you'd think every other team in the league would be lined up trying to acquire him. But some owners and front offices view this guy in the same way we view Artest or fans in other sports view Terrel Owens or Barry Bonds, as huge talents with even huger egos and issues.

That having been said, those other guys would always have a home when they become available and Kobe certainly has a lot of value around the league. But you have to think that certain organizations (Utah for example) would face a public backlash for trading for him.
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Postby YESMAR1 on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:36 am

Chicago has to make a decision on Deng and Gordon contract wise. They are both due for extensions and they can't pay them both. i am sure they want Gordon to be the center of any deal...

David Lee would look Real nice on our front line....
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Postby crucifixion on Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:09 am

Joe_Blow wrote:
crucifixion wrote:The funny thing is, if you go to Chicago boards, they are CONTEMPLATING a Gordon, Duhon, PJ deal for Kobe.

Yes, no Kirk, and no Deng in those deals. To the fans, the deal dies if anyone of those two are in there.

And those fans are CONTEMPLATING if Kobe is worth it to give up Gordon, Duhon and change. LOL indeed.

It's like the homie Nate Dogg says..."Every other city I go, Every other town we go, I see the same ho---mer's"


That's because he's viewed by virtually every other city as "tainted goods." There's bad that comes with the good, and it has to be considered.

Question: do you think those same fans would feel the same if it was LeBron being considered rather than Kobe?

It's sad really... I think Sky hit it on the nose with his "Diva fatigue" comment. He is viewed -- even by a number of his own fans -- as a high maintenance Diva. IMO, that's why his market value seems to be slightly above TMac when, in reality, he's about twice the player.


I never looked at it from that perspective, but yeah you're right, its a big difference. I think without a doubt Chicago would offer Deng or Kirk in a package for LeBron...in fact, the more I think about, they might be able to offer BOTH.

But yet, for Kobe, its a NO for either one. Sky is right, it is the Diva fatigue
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Postby dvdrdiscs on Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:39 am

knm131 wrote:
hitokiriheero wrote:lakers need to trade bynum before they trade kobe. this is getting ridiculous


Lakers don't NEED to trade anybody.

They NEED to acquire some help. And if we need to do a trade to get help, we'll do it.

But we don't NEED to trade, what we NEED to do is improve the team.


Mitch should lay an egg and have it hatch into help? How do you get help without a trade at this point?

This is getting ridiculous. There is no way you can find someone like Kobe again. Mitch and Buss needs to entertain offers from players 2 through 15 before they ever consider listening to offers for player 1.

At this point I sincerely hope one of our young players develop very quickly and become a huge trade asset so Kobe can get some help.
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Postby KB24 on Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:54 am

very nice breakdown sky...much appreciated :bow:
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Postby Massacre on Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:28 am

Well done, Sky. :bow:

I will always feel that dealing Kobe should be management's last resort. Try to appease him at the moment, and commit to winning now. They don't seem to be budging on that. Of the 5 destinations Kobe would want, Houston & Chicago are the only 2 I seriously mull over. With Chicago's offer, that brings in the youth movement. Deng is a proven player you can give the ball to in crunch time, and he's come through. He's on his way to being a legit All-Star in this league. Houston's offer on the other hand is to my liking just for the fact that I beleive McGrady is the closest thing to Kobe we have in the NBA. He has the skill set, but he never uses it to it's full potential, which is something I dislike about him. He can play the facilitator role which he has shown in the past. High assist numbers reflecting for him these past couple of seasons. 6-5-7 over the last 3. The lingering back problems is something that will worry anyone, as well as the minimal playoff success. Houston has failed at their very own Kobe-Shaq II experiment. They know Kobe plus a legit big man can generate something special. That along with his chronic back problems, no work ethic whatsoever and immediatley making Houston a contender will eventually be my reasoning for not making this deal.

The most logical place to deal him is ... Chicago. As far as I'm concerned they are giving us the best offer, and it seems like the FO wants a youth movement. Chicago on the plus side is also an Eastern team. In the end, Luol, Ben, & Tyrus is an offer I find myself flirting with.
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Postby SignPippenNow on Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:20 pm

I just wish the Lakers put as much emphasis in winning now as some wild eyed 2010 plan. If they couldn't keep Shaq happy and now Kobe, what makes them think Mitch or lucky sperm donor recipient Jimmy Buss can lure one in 2010? We heard about a plan a couple of years ago and Yao and Lebron screwed that up by resigning with their teams and the 2010 won't be any different.
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Postby Klewfish on Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:15 pm

Houston deal seems most plausable/realistic if the Lakers want to keep Phil and have a chance to win now. McGrady's back is a huge concern, but get Shane Battier with him, and it seems like a pretty good deal. Throw in Luther Head or a first round, and now you've got me tempted

Fisher/Crit/Farmar/Head
McGrady/Evans/Sasha
Battier/Luke/Vlad
Odom/Turiaf/Cook
Bynum/Kwame/Mihm

That gives us a ton of options. We still have Kwame's $9mil exp K, we have a host of PG's available for trade. Luke or Vlad can be traded (rid of one bad contract). The Lakers can aim for a more saavy PG, C. All this is pipe and obviously my first option is to keep Kobe, and keep the team as-is.
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Postby crucifixion on Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:35 pm

Klewfish wrote:Houston deal seems most plausable/realistic if the Lakers want to keep Phil and have a chance to win now. McGrady's back is a huge concern, but get Shane Battier with him, and it seems like a pretty good deal. Throw in Luther Head or a first round, and now you've got me tempted

Fisher/Crit/Farmar/Head
McGrady/Evans/Sasha
Battier/Luke/Vlad
Odom/Turiaf/Cook
Bynum/Kwame/Mihm

That gives us a ton of options. We still have Kwame's $9mil exp K, we have a host of PG's available for trade. Luke or Vlad can be traded (rid of one bad contract). The Lakers can aim for a more saavy PG, C. All this is pipe and obviously my first option is to keep Kobe, and keep the team as-is.


I agree...it will be tough to see Kobe with Yao (hey, wasn't that the original 2007 plan, lol) but if we can get their best players, Tmac, Battier, Head, AND Bonzi, then I'm for it. Because even with that, I think Houston will still have a really really good team:

Francis/MJames/Yao/ not sure about PF, but move Kobe to SF and their set.
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Postby koolkobe on Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:38 pm

hey sky, i posted this idea in another thred but wanted to know what you thought about it

kobe for Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

this sends kobe in the weak east where lebron made the finals

sends gilbert to big $$$ place and home in LA

here at least wiz get something instead of losing gilbert for nothing when he opts out of his contract

we get better

Gilbert Arenas/ Derek Fisher/ Jordan Farmar
Caron Butler/ Javaris Crittenton/ Sasha Vujacic
Vladimir Radmanovic/ Luke Walton/ Maurice Evans
Lamar Odom/ Ronny Turiaf/ Brian Cook
Andrew Bynum/ Kwame Brown/ Chris Mihm

good or bad trade??
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Postby UKUGA on Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:26 pm

Out of that list, the only team I can personally stomach seeing Kobe play for, is the Houston Rockets.

I've always respected the Houston franchise, and when I lived in Texas, they were my "Texas team."

I've been to many a game in sweaty Houston, and know it to be a great sports town. Kobe and Yao would be superfun to watch.

The only other team I would want to see Kobe play for, is my hometown Atlanta Hawks. But, the Hawks are too stupid to make it happen.
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Postby FabFourLakers on Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:29 pm

yea if we HAD to trade Kobe...i like houston or chicago...both teams i like and they give us the best deals...

but any deal to CHICAGO starts with Luol Deng...i'd take Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, PJ Brown and a first round pick for Kobe, Radmanovic and Sasha
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Postby Weezy on Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:25 pm

crucifixion wrote:I agree...it will be tough to see Kobe with Yao (hey, wasn't that the original 2007 plan, lol) but if we can get their best players, Tmac, Battier, Head, AND Bonzi, then I'm for it. Because even with that, I think Houston will still have a really really good team:

Francis/MJames/Yao/ not sure about PF, but move Kobe to SF and their set.


Why does Houston give us McGrady, Battier, Head AND Bonzi for Kobe? They're already close to contending, why do they give us 3 of their best players and Bonzi? :man3: McGrady and Head sure. McGrady and Bonzi of course. McGrady and Battier that's pushing it, but to give us ALL of that? Why do they do that?
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Postby Q Deezy on Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:26 pm

Unless we make it deep into the playoffs, this is kobe's last year in the P & G. The writing is on the wall. Chicago is the only place I see a deal able to work for both sides. We HAVE to get Deng included. or no deal period.

Deng + Gordon + Thomas + Sefolosha

for

Kobe + Cook + Radman
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Postby scarface223 on Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:21 pm

^^ Wow, I can't believe some of y'all would actually accept the Tmac deal!! THis aint the same Tmac from 02-03, he is a vastly different player. He is still pretty box office, but I just don't know know why either team would do that!
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Postby Lord Johnny on Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:21 pm

What abour Kobe,Farmar for Bargnani, delfino and TJ Ford?

Lakers:
Bynum/Kwame/Mihm
Bargs/Turiaf
Odom/Vlad/Luke
Delfino/Evans/Sasha
Ford/Fisher/Critt

Raptors
Rasho/?
Bosh/Garbajosa
Kapono/Grahan
Kobe/Parker
Calderon/Martin
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Postby lotus on Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:53 pm

scarface223 wrote:^^ Wow, I can't believe some of y'all would actually accept the Tmac deal!! THis aint the same Tmac from 02-03, he is a vastly different player. He is still pretty box office, but I just don't know know why either team would do that!


Thank you!!! I don't see the fascination with T-Mac. (Or Duhon for that matter.) Do you really think he won't be clutching his back several times throughout the season? Of course he will.

Bonzi, Head, and Battier? That's nothing. Bonzi is done. Head is a dime a dozen. (No pun intended). And Battier is solid, but not much better than Luke in my opinion, except his defense is decent.

I think the Arenas & Butler package that was suggested would be our best bet compared to the other potential offers.
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Postby Lord Johnny on Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:55 pm

Arenas,Nick Young and 2 picks for Kobe


wiz
Kobe,Butler.Jamison :bang: :bang:

Lakers
Hibachi,Odom,Bynum. Young and Critt will be a SCARY duo.
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Postby Satan on Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:13 pm

Joe_Blow wrote:There's another option that would provide plenty o' cap space in 2010. Actually, a boat load of cap in '09 and, if done right, cap in 2010 as well. It's the same option that gives them both the greatest possible chance of keeping Kobe AND time to evalute rooks and, based on the evaluation, determine a course.

It's called not doing a damned thing!


I feel sad that this one actually sounds the best to me.

Oh well, Bron and Wade in 2010. Until we hear about the 2014 plan anyway.
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Postby dvdrdiscs on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:20 pm

Lord Johnny wrote:Arenas,Nick Young and 2 picks for Kobe


wiz
Kobe,Butler.Jamison :bang: :bang:

Lakers
Hibachi,Odom,Bynum. Young and Critt will be a SCARY duo.


Scarier than Kobe, Odom, Bynum? :disagree:
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