skyblog: 8 Questions

Postby L4L on Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:08 pm

Vash-

I wasn't suggesting moving LO before the deadline. Actually, I was suggesting waiting till then. I completely agree on that point.

As far as business is concerned, I think that is a valid issue. However, I don't see the fans going anywhere as long as Kobe is still on this team. It might validate some of the fans complaints, but the next time the Lakers play well, you can be assured the fans will come back in flocks.

The problem is that this FO wants to try and win now, and prepare for later. You can't do that. It doesn't work. That is the primary reason I want to take the chips and make a strong push, a gamble, in one direction. If doesn't work out, well at least you're efforts are concentrated and it's rebuilding time. If it does work out, jackpot.
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Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:19 pm

I'm with you L4L, we need to get risky. I've criticized Mitch for not having a pair, so a risky move will at least show me something about him.

However, I would wait a little longer to see how the '08 FA list transpires. Lets see how this progresses leading up to the deadline.
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Postby bumrusherer on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:22 pm

Havent read through all the posts...


But if you are willing to take a leap of faith in Bynum. A leap of faith that he will eventually turn into an anchor and a back to the basket scorer.
It then becomes a heck of a lot easier to deal Odom, because at the point, you are just looking for another 2-way player. That player doesn't have to be an elite scorer.


You trade Odom and filler for someone like Richard Jefferson. From there, take another leap of faith in Turiaf being able to give you 30 minutes per of high energy play at the 4 position.


Thats a lot of leaps in faith. But without a risk, nothing can happen. Speculate to accumulate and all that.
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Postby Radner on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:24 pm

bumrusherer wrote:Havent read through all the posts...


But if you are willing to take a leap of faith in Bynum. A leap of faith that he will eventually turn into an anchor and a back to the basket scorer.
It then becomes a heck of a lot easier to deal Odom, because at the point, you are just looking for another 2-way player. That player doesn't have to be an elite scorer.


You trade Odom and filler for someone like Richard Jefferson. From there, take another leap of faith in Turiaf being able to give you 30 minutes per of high energy play at the 4 position.


Thats a lot of leaps in faith. But without a risk, nothing can happen. Speculate to accumulate and all that.


Agree.
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Postby nimannn on Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:21 am

Sky, how are you so sure that Brand would like to play for us?
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Postby TalkieWalkie on Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:14 am

nimannn wrote:Sky, how are you so sure that Brand would like to play for us?


Because he's on the Clippers...
If on the morrow of the revolution, the masses of the people have only phrases at their service, if they do not recognize, by clear and blinding facts, that the situation has been transformed to their advantage, if the overthrow ends only in a change of persons and forumlae, nothing will have been acheived. -Peter Kropotkin
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Postby Radner on Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:16 am

If Brand chose to play for the Lakers, it would be a slap in the face to Clipper fans.
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Postby Coville on Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:29 am

JKsnoots wrote:If Brand chose to play for the Lakers, it would be a slap in the face to Clipper fans.


Frankie Munez is used to getting the old backhand, don't worry about him.
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Postby abeer3 on Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:39 am

sky, you think JO will be moved, but not to la. which team is willing to give up the players and salaries required to get him at this point? 20 million a year for a guy producing like he has been and with his ongoing injury problems seems pretty steep for most teams.

imo, an odom/kwame/1st offer should be pretty competetive.
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Postby wolfpaclaker on Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:46 am

Interesting thread.

I think the Lakers are probably going to stick with the youth and keep the vets around to mantain a playoff seed/competitive team that can win in the 40's.

Youth - Bynum, Turiaf, Ariza, Crittenton, Farmar .. Gasol and Yue on their way next year

Vets - Kobe, Odom, Fisher and Walton.

Odom has about 2 months to show he can be a big scorer for the team or he will be aggresively shopped by deadline. Though as Sky pointed, maybe they would rather just let his contract expire. Lakers may wind up doing the same with Kwame, who is in his last year of his current contract.

Sky - You once said you thought Kobe would be gone by draft day 2008. Do you still believe that? I wonder if they will just keep him in LA until 2009, and see if he's willing to walk away with a lot less change in his pocket.
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Postby jlkr on Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:26 pm

Random thoughts:

Judging from the positive reports coming in about Marc Gasol, I think the team lets Kwame walk because they'll replace him with Gasol.

Not only Ariza, but Mihm also has a player option. Since Mihm hasn't shown anything, expect him not to exercise his option either. So the team is stuck with both Ariza and Mihm next year. With Ariza, let's hope that is a good thing. With Mihm, it may take him another year to get the mobility he had before his injury. At least, he'll fill a big man roster spot for cheap.

Sun Yue is a another story as the SF position is once again overstocked. I wouldn't blame the team for wanting him to stay away another year.

Odom should be the odd man out as he has never meshed consistently with Kobe. That ship has sailed. Long ago. What's happening this season should be no surprise to those of us who have agonized over his "potential" so often. But as Sky says, hard to move since it might send the wrong message to Kobe.

December 15 is the key date when we'll see last summer's FA signings now eligible for trades.

Bynum needs to go back to the 2nd unit. Last night's game was an exception, but there's no question the 2nd unit is far better with Bynum than without. And the Lakers need every edge they can get. So let's hope Brown gets healthy and stays healthy.

Crittenton fans needs to be patient. Farmar was not ready most of last year. Farmar had his opportunities to take the job from Smush, but never played well enough for Phil to make the change until the last month of the season. Also the rotation is dang crowded in front of him.

I's getting harder to sit Sasha. That new haircut must have turned him into Samson-lite. The team should let him go in the summer to make way for Crit. Or else include him as filler before the deadline. But he's not going back to Europe, he'll catch on somewhere else in the NBA.
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Postby Punk-101 on Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:36 pm

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD JERRY AND JIM TAKE A CHANCE ON ARTEST :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Postby rscogold on Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:17 pm

i think Cleveland will be desperate to make a move to counter Boston's big 3. why not deal Odom for two system players like Varejao (2 year deal starting at 7 mil) plus either Gooden or Marshall. our bigs are fortified and the 2009 plan remains intact.
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Postby Coca Shayne on Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:04 pm

Man.... Odom for Wilcox and Wilkens from Seattle... damn... that would be awesome
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Postby UKUGA on Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:38 pm

Sky,

What is the situation with Crittenton? Are the Lakers really unwilling to package him in a deal, even for a defensive anchor like JO?

How does his role coincide with Farmar's going forward? Is Farmar the true trade bait?

None of the above?

Thanks,

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Postby L4L on Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:39 pm

Jefferson is impossible because he's owed 17million in 2010-2011.
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Postby Sky on Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:41 pm

Crux - I doubt your scenario comes to pass. Free agency is dominoes the big ones fall first and they don't come any bigger than Kobe. So he gets resolved early that summer. All of these moves by Kobe have been to optimize his choices, he won't sit and wait as some of those options are closed off.

Nimannn - Brand has expressed an interest in playing with Kobe, loves LA, wants to win. Brand + Kobe is a contender therefore I think he would be interested. But he'd only be interested if he gets to keep his contract too, and that's where it jumps the rails. Sterling is never going to S&T Brand to the Lakers. Never. If Brand wants to switch locker rooms he has to be willing to take a paycut of at least 2M per maybe as high as 5. Don't see it happening.

abeer - I'd put New Jersey at the top of the JO list, provided Jermaine proves his health. The Nets have the salaries, disposable bigs in Kristic and Magloire and young talent in Marcus Williams and Antoine Wright.

wolf - I think the best chance for a Kobe trade is draft day, because Kobe won't value a lottery pick but the Laker FO will. Therefore Kobe doesn't veto and LA gets value, only scenario I see that makes a Kobe trade possible. Whether that happens or not depends on who is willing to give up a high pick. Phoenix has good talent and Atlanta's #1 unprotected, so they'd be at the top. If the Lakers are willing to move Kobe in division, and if Phoenix gives that pick, maybe a deal could happen.

rscogold - Varejao trades are tough since he'd be BYC.

UKUGA - Apparently Crittenon is off limits. Farmar could be moved in the right deal imo. The guys they are open to dealing are Kwame and Sasha, and then adding Farmar as necessary if it lands the right talent back.
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Postby crucifixion on Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:00 pm

Why is Critt off limits? If Odom/Critt/change gets you JO, then you should do it.

Sure Critt looks good but nothing great. He'll be a Earl Watson type player maybe better but not much.

Can Kwame/Odom/Farmar get JO or something similar?
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Postby davidse on Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:17 pm

hey sky.

about ariza - and even mihm, i think both can be easily traded for exp contracts should the lakers find a way to dump odom for expirings and decide to try for cap space next summer.


and about the sonics - would they do odom for wilcox if it also means dumping ridnour and his 3 year deal which really bothers them (2 year cap space plan) to a third team ?...
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Postby D Nice on Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:30 pm

Sky, you failed to mention Shawn Marion as a potential player to be had for Odom. It would seem it still makes sense for Phoenix, as they aren't planning to extend Marion, he still wants out, they want to contend and get some size, and it sure as hell makes sense for us. Do you see something like this working itself out? Why or why not?
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Postby L4L on Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 pm

I'm not Sky obviously, but on Marion:

-Phoenix wants to dump him for financial reasons. Because of that, moving Banks with him is a primary goal.
-Busses won't take Banks because his contract goes into 2010-2011.
-Within the conference..
-Within the division...
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Postby davidse on Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:04 pm

i dont' think moving banks is a condition for the suns.

they'll settle for an odom/marion swap, save themselves 5 mil this year (including tax), and avoid paying tax next year too should marion not opt out.

financialy, i think marion for odom is more than enough for the suns.
now i think odom just has to get back to form for the suns to revisit this trade which aparently they wanted a few months back.
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Postby L4L on Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:08 pm

Fair enough. I think it is because I do not think they value Odom nearly as highly as Shawn, and saving a few million doesn't make up for the gap IMHO. Aside of that, we are heated rivals, and you HAVE to get the better end, at least arguably, in any deal with a rival.
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Postby Sky on Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:31 pm

Crux - Crittenton is off limits cause they think he has a big upside. If you are going to commit to Bynum, it makes sense to commit to Critt along with him.

Dave - There you go vounteering the Lakers to make a 3-way or take on a bad contract again ;) I don't see Seattle wanting Odom, makes too much relative to production. Chicago likes Mihm maybe they would take him. Before you ask, do they like him enough for Thabo, doubt that.

D Nice - The issue with Marion is he's only worth dealing for if you are going to sign him to an extension. Problem there is Marion wants a long term max extension which then interferes with the 2010 cap room safety net. As a result, no Marion.

Marion's game fits beautifully. Marion's extension blows up all of their cap room plans. They aren't going to sacrifice the cap room safety net because Kobe can opt out in summer 2009 and then they are left with no marquee, fiscal disaster for LA. They won't give up their best chance to get a marquee player to replace Kobe. 2010 cap room is an absolute. Any trade that interferes with that dies.
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Postby GCMD on Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:40 pm

Great read and great discussion.

Enjoyed both, thoroughly...
Feel free to ignore anything I say...

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