2012-2013 Blame Pie

Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby pound4pound1 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:13 am

60% injuries
20% Joffrey Buss
15% MDA
5% Stu Lantz
.
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby therealdeal on Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:57 am

45% injuries
20% D'Antoni AND Brown
15% Kupchak/FO
5% Media
5% Howard
5% Gasol
2.5% Kobe
1.5% The rest of the team
1% The fans

Nash gets lumped in with injuries. I think he would have been better if he wasn't so hurt.
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:10 am

35% injuries
35% D'Antoni
15% FO
5% Media
10% Howard/Gasol/Nash/Meeks
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:19 pm

Since I have no way to know who in the front office signed off on this mix of players and the passing over of players I offer this...

Also keep in mind that I'm viewing this through the lens of this being a championship contending team.... not just a playoff team....

65% Front Office: This mix of players doesn't work.... regardless of injuries. The excuses made are a non starter IMO. We lack the basic ingredients to compete with the top teams in the league.... plain and simple. Not having anyone on the team that can create a shot for themselves other than Kobe is the largest reason we ended where we did.... and is a direct contributor to Kobe's injury. MDA wouldn't have been playing him those minutes if we had a guy like Beasley coming off the bench or anyone that can score consistently. The make up of the bench was poor as well. We got lucky (well maybe) with Clark but the supposed "youth" in Ebanks and Morris were what most of us thought they were.... which is trash.... not only did we go with them this year they may be here next year as well....

15% Chemistry. Dwight's antics were a big part of our early to mid season woes.... I'm not sure I've can ever remember a Laker going to a reporter or other players with a score sheet before.... inexcusable act on a team supposedly in a championship run. The sniping that occurred in the press was/is not conducive to a cohesive team. Howard's immaturity and character showed through a little there IMHO.....

10% Coaching. Coaching was a problem in the respect that there were differing philosophies, different methods and in the case of MDA poor personnel to philosophy matching that wasn't adjusted for soon enough. Again, I certainly do not see a much different outcome if Phil was coaching... to me that wasn't the issue. Phil detests the idea of a guard like Nash and on several occasions has said so. That would have been a very difficult transition and a side swipe to Nash and the internal promises most likely made to him as a condition of coming here in the first place. That seems to get overlooked by most here.

10% Injuries. Keep in mind that I didn't think the personnel was championship material and that is the lens I used: We had a bunch of injuries.... some of them somewhat freakish (Nash) but most of them over-use/age related (hamstrings, tendonitis, plantar fasciitis etc.) that I don't think a summer off will solve. We're an old team and injuries will be a significant part of putting a group this age on the court for the minutes we did this year. See my comments about the front office as well. They didn't provide the depth necessary to support the core group.
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby Punk-101 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:38 pm

Good job to clarify the lens of your blame pie, Roos. There is a very big difference between:
-Why were we not championship contenders this year?
-Why were we THIS BAD this year?
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby OX1947 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:42 pm

hahahahahah, Stu Lantz 5%
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:19 pm

Punk-101 wrote:Good job to clarify the lens of your blame pie, Roos. There is a very big difference between:
-Why were we not championship contenders this year?
-Why were we THIS BAD this year?


It's tough... and I'll admit I was caught up in the fantasy in October. But what our "big 4" are and what they were are the reality here and difficult for me to separate. A healthy group with a consistent philosophy from the bench might have vied for the division crown... might have wandered into the second round again but most likely wouldn't have gotten much further. Age, lack of athleticism and constant dynamic changes resulted in what we saw. While we had a rash of injuries I'm not sure it's realistic to think that a group used this much at this age will go a season without some significant injuries. In recent years the aged groups in Boston and San Antonio are proof that even 10 time All Stars get injured when they get older and broken down by minutes.

It isn't all bad... Howard showed he's nearly fully healthy... or as healthy as he'll probably get in recent games and without the injuries we wouldn't know about Earl Clark.... a ray here or there....
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby cthroatgtr on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:00 pm

Easy to blame injuries but injuries this year were a byproduct of other things. Nash was a gamble that backfired. His injury although a freak one, wasn't the injury that derailed this team. To be honest perhaps a knee jerk reaction to let Brown go when they did didn't help. But honestly the hiring of D'antoni is at the heart of a lot of the teams issues. D'Antoni isn't an awful coach, but he was for this team. He spent half the season trying to make the team in his image and it didn't work. Same thing happened in NY and to be honest it was basically the same team he had in NY in a lot of ways. But back to the injuries, D'Antoni is known to run short rotations and he absolutely ran the guys he played into the ground. Plus his blind faith in Nash is his undoing. He spent half the season proclaiming wait until Nash gets back...and really wanted to run Pau out of town.

So my blame pie...
D'antoni - 25% - Wrong coach for this team and he made matters worst by running the few guys he trusted into the ground. Plus he pissed off Pau & Dwight and probably to a lesser extent Kobe & Nash and let's be honest, I think Kobe was actually coaching the team in the second half of the season.

FO - 25% - I don't hate on the FO quite as much but the D'Antoni hire was a huge mistake. Nash was a gamble that in hindsight was a big mistake. I think all of this was compounded by hiring D'Antoni because of Nash. They gave up way too much for Nash as well. I think other mistakes include keeping Ebanks and letting Barnes go and I really think they should have traded Pau in the off season. Pau & Dwight wasn't the right fit and you could get more for Pau in the off season last year than this one.

Mike Brown - 5% - Why did he decide to install the Princeton once the team got Nash? Why did he practice so long and break down Pau? Some blame belongs to him.

Dwight - 5% - Was he not ready? Was he mentally not there? Not sure but for 1/2 season he looked like he didn't want to be here. Deserves some blame.

David Stern - 5% - Yep we are still going to blame him until he retires.

PJ - 1% - Love Phil but flirting with coming back to coach really wasn't the right answer and probably hurt some.

Injuries - 25% -Yeah part of the game but never seen anything like this...

Rest - 14% - Age - Gets them all in the end and Pau, MWP, Nash & Kobe are on the wrong side of 30.

I think that is 100%
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:07 pm

^105% but since I agree with your points I'll let it slide :man12:

I think a lot of people forget D'Antoni's constant "once we get Nash back" excuse...He lived off that one and it did nothing for us. I thought Brown needed to go, but not for D'Antoni to be his replacement. I would have almost had Brown stay, but have the FO urge him to remove the Princeton O. Still though like you said, his practice length is an issue, don't know how we would've solved that. We likely still run our guys to the ground.

Nash was the worst decision, IMO. No idea why we gave him the full $9M. If he took less money to be here, we might have gotten away with a lesser offer. Even if we owed him $6M instead of $9M, that would have been a blessing. Plus 4 draft picks? Come on....we didn't trade for a guy in his prime :disagree:
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby unpossibl1 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:52 pm

There is actually 1 person who is 100% responsible for the current state of the Lakers: David Stern. When he vetoed the already-announced Chris Paul deal he effectively killed the Lakers for at least a few seasons. That trade was a cure-all in terms of both talent and cap space. The Dwight deal could have still gone down and we would have had CP3, Kobe, and Dwight as our core. I remember thinking at the time that Stern may have done irreparable damage to the good guys that day and it looks like I was right.

If you want to focus on this season only and not past atrocities then I think it looks like this:

D'Antoni: 20%- ran stars into the ground although he did adapt the system more than people give credit for.

FO: 40%- It's only this high because of the decision to hire D'Antoni over Phil. If we had a lineup full of athletes and shooters the sure, D'Antoni might be a good pick. With possibly the least athletic lineup in the league though it's a terrible choice. And of course Dwight wouldn't fathom leaving if Phil was at the helm.
On the plus side getting a lineup featuring Nash, Kobe, Pau, and Dwight didn't work this year but most teams in the league would gladly jump at the opportunity to put those 4 together.

Dwight: 20%- Coming in injured wasn't his fault but the attitude was. He dodged any and all questions about the future when a simple "I like being a Laker and can't see leaving" would have at least helped fans warm up to him. His steadfast refusal to commit made it extremely difficult to truly get behind him. His offense needs so much work he still looks like the raw high school kid he was 9 years ago. His defense makes up for it somewhat, but a franchise player needs to be able to do more on that end of the court.

Pau: 10%- Time to stop playing over the summer and rest up. He got better down the stretch, but for the majority of the season Pau was just painful to watch.

Nash: 5%- Don't want to fault the guy for being hurt but it seemed like his injuries really killed any shot at consistency.

Bench" 5%- Clark and Blake stepped up but other than that everyone on the bench disappointed. Hill's injury was a big downer, and Jamison, Meeks, Duhon, Morris, etc were all way too inconsistent.

Anyway, that's my take.
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Thu May 02, 2013 11:34 am

FO, Jim Buss mostly- 75% for assembling an aged line-up and hiring MDA to run it, pun intended.
Stern 25%- for screwing us on the CPFlop deal setting this franchise back several years before contending again
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby purp n gold on Thu May 02, 2013 1:12 pm

20% injuries
80% Jim Buss, Mike Brown and Mike D'Antoni
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby VincentTH on Thu May 02, 2013 3:27 pm

Jim Buss 200%

There you have it!
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby Lakerjones on Thu May 02, 2013 3:38 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:60% injuries
20% Joffrey Buss
15% MDA
5% Stu Lantz


:man10: :man10: :man10: Love the Game of Thrones reference!
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby CarFlagChris on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:11 pm

This extends into 2013-14.

44% Jim Buss - He has failed to fire a bad coach, like his dad did with Rudy T.
35% Antoni - He is stubborn, refuses to play bigs, can't coach D and is an idiot. He has been worse with a full training camp.
15% Injuries - Not the total excuse the Lakers claim, but still worth mentioning.
5% David Stern - With Chris Paul, no need for Steve Nash and, therefore, no Antoni.
1% Frank McCourt - Everything was better before him and he still is here.
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby Battle Tested20 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:44 am

40% MDA
35% injuries
25% roster
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:52 am

99% Billy Wackdonald
0.5% Gary Vitti
0.5% Pierre
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby CarFlagChris on Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:54 am

cthroatgtr wrote:
Mike Brown - 5% - Why did he decide to install the Princeton once the team got Nash? Why did he practice so long and break down Pau? Some blame belongs to him.

Rest - 14% - Age - Gets them all in the end and Pau, MWP, Nash & Kobe are on the wrong side of 30.



Good points about Mike Brown and age.
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby bigdog2013 on Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:44 pm

30% - years of trading 1st round draft picks
20% - bad contracts.
40% - coaching hires
10% - not trading pau when he had value
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby Juronimo on Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:13 pm

25% not hiring enough training staff and medical personnel. 1 season of catastrophic injuries is a fluke. 2 years of catastrophic injuries is a trend.
37.5% damfony
37.5% front office for hiring damfony
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby lakerzkb8 on Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:27 pm

50% Jim Buss
25% Mike D'Antoni
25% Injuries.


Let's say the team was 100% healthy last year? We still sucked because of Mike D'Antoni. Who hired him? Jimmy.
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby LakersN4 on Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:46 pm

75% Jim Buss
25% Injuries

If we had went with Adelman over Mike Brown last season would have went completely differently in my opinion, & we would have never had a reason to hire D'antoni.
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby Magic Skywalker on Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:06 am

40% Injuries
25% Jim Buss
15% Front Office
15% D'Antoni
5% Others
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby LakerFan1235 on Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:56 pm

CarFlagChris wrote:This extends into 2013-14.

44% Jim Buss - He has failed to fire a bad coach, like his dad did with Rudy T.
35% Antoni - He is stubborn, refuses to play bigs, can't coach D and is an idiot. He has been worse with a full training camp.
15% Injuries - Not the total excuse the Lakers claim, but still worth mentioning.
5% David Stern - With Chris Paul, no need for Steve Nash and, therefore, no Antoni.
1% Frank McCourt - Everything was better before him and he still is here.

Still one of the things I am most confused about in my time as a Laker fan. What happened to Rudy T? If my memory is correct, we were like 24-19 when he "resigned"... What was the real story? I mean I still see Rudy T sitting next to Kupchak at games all the time.
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Re: 2012-2013 Blame Pie

Postby Lqv2015 on Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:21 pm

I'm going to revamp my OP. I put 99% of this crap on Stern. We might have a chimp as an owner, but I'm going to defend that chimp. From where I'm from, we have the backs of our family members. David Stern can go suck a fat one. :mad1:
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