Andrew Goudelock Discussion

Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby therealdeal on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:22 am

revgen wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Easy to point at Meeks, but he wasn't asked to be our scorer/creator was he?


He was asked to be Kobe's backup.

He's failed at doing so. Even "chucker" Shannon Brown did a better job of backing up Kobe than Meeks.

I'm not sure he failed at the job he was brought here to do. When given an expanded role he failed. He was brought here to limit Kobe's minutes and in a perfect world, that would have worked. But two bad coaches and 15 injuries later, that didn't work out the way we all expected it to. Remember this?

Nash (32)/ Blake (16)
Kobe (35)/ Meeks (13)

That wasn't remotely what happened. In no small part thanks to Nash and Blake missing massive chunks of time and Kobe having to take more responsibility.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby therealdeal on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:30 am

Helljumper wrote:
Blake wasn't asked to be our scorer or creator either. He stepped up and took that role because we had no one else. Meeks didn't. Because he can't. He's solely a catch-and-shoot shooter ... who can't shoot. And come on, I think it's asking a lot to expect a D-leaguer thrust into the NBA playoffs against an elite team for his first NBA game to put up 30 or 40 points (although I do think he's capable of doing it.


I'd argue that Blake was the exact OPPOSITE. He's been asked to be that guy for at least one season before this (his first being in the triangle). We needed him to play better and to fill that role because frankly even if Nash had stayed healthy, we all knew Blake needed to be better. To his absolute credit he was better than we could have expected.

Like I said above: Meeks was brought here to spell Kobe and to space the floor. Did he do that? Eh. Maybe not, but his averages aren't far from where he was supposed to be. He didn't step up, that much is true. But he was thrust into a bigger role than what we were expecting of him and in that role he failed utterly. I wouldn't blame that totally on the kid. He thought he was going to play 15-20 minutes a game behind a Hall of Famer, not be responsible for lifting the offense almost every night.

I'm not asking Goudelock to do that, I'm just saying THAT would have meant to me that we have a keeper hands down. What I saw says we have a keeper, but he's still got to continue working and improving. That's all.

Helljumper wrote:Ok, maybe role wasn't the right word. Meeks doesn't know his limitations. Specifically what pisses me off so much about him is how he ALWAYS just puts his head down on the fast break and trys to attack the rim at full speed. He's not good at it. At all. He never looks to slow down to just run a play. He never looks for the pass. And it's cost us tons of possessions. Say what you want; maybe Meeks is just trying to expand his game or something, but IMO it boils down to terrible basketball IQ in that regard. I didn't see that from Glock.

I agree with what you said here. I'm not TRYING to defend Meeks :man10: it's just sort of happening. I don't think he was great, I just think he's being crushed a little unfairly. He had/has plenty of faults. I just think that a guy with his experience can push someone like Goudelock who has less of it, but probably more overall talent.

Helljumper wrote:I'm a Glock fan. It still blows my mind that Brown didn't incorporate him into the rotation last year. When he did play rotation minutes, he was consistently effective. So I disagree that there's NO proof that he can do this on a more consistent basis.
You're right, there's just very, very little proof. (no pun intended)

Helljumper wrote:I agree with most of what you said though. I don't think anyone thinks Glock will be our savior or a "great" pick-up. I just don't get why you're so quick to dismiss Glock's performance and abilties as something that anyone at his price range can do ... yet you've also been vehemently defending the higher paid Meeks who has PROVEN that he doesn't have the ability to be a scorer/creator who can put up 20 points unless it's one of the few games a year where he catches fire from three.

Like I said, I'm not trying to defend Meeks. I'm just making sure he gets a fair shake here. Some people are making him into one of the worst role players we've ever had when the truth is somewhere in the middle. He had a tough season and like everyone else on the team was forced to do things that weren't in his wheelhouse.

I'm not trying to dismiss Goudelock either, I just think some people here value him too highly. It's kind of like Douglas-Roberts was early this season. I REALLY like both of those guys, but every NBA team had/has a chance at them and they're barely sticking. That's got to tell you something right? Maybe they're just not quite that good. I really like both of them though and I hope they stick around. Goudelock and Meeks and Douglas-Roberts make for great bench pieces on a team.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby revgen on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:45 am

therealdeal wrote:
revgen wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Easy to point at Meeks, but he wasn't asked to be our scorer/creator was he?


He was asked to be Kobe's backup.

He's failed at doing so. Even "chucker" Shannon Brown did a better job of backing up Kobe than Meeks.

I'm not sure he failed at the job he was brought here to do. When given an expanded role he failed. He was brought here to limit Kobe's minutes and in a perfect world, that would have worked. But two bad coaches and 15 injuries later, that didn't work out the way we all expected it to. Remember this?

Nash (32)/ Blake (16)
Kobe (35)/ Meeks (13)

That wasn't remotely what happened. In no small part thanks to Nash and Blake missing massive chunks of time and Kobe having to take more responsibility.


I expect a backup to (1 hit open shots consistently 2) Handle the ball at a reasonable level. Stop going 100mph and losing the ball in traffic. 3) Finish at the rim. He's almost as bad as Fish when it comes to his finishing ability. About the only thing he does really well is team defense. Sure, he's cheap, but there are better options available. Glock would be an upgrade at 1), 2), and 3). Ditto with Delonte West, but the FO seems deadset on not hiring him.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby therealdeal on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:48 am

I expect the same, but again those things all would have been much easier if he wasn't asked to 1) play 25-30 minutes a night and be a consistent SCORING (not even shooting, but scoring) option 2) asked to REPLACE Kobe instead of back him up.

The kid wasn't great, he was barely even adequate, but it's not like we could expect a whole lot from what's almost a minimum level contract.

And the whole league has passed on Delonte West, so I'm not blaming the FO for that. Most teams seem to understand he's a mess and they know more than we do.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby khmrP on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:57 am

I want no more of Meeks, 1.6 mill for a shot bricker, no d playing, non layup making bum.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby pound4pound1 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:02 pm

khmrP wrote:I want no more of Meeks, 1.6 mill for a shot bricker, no d playing, non layup making bum.



i'd like for them to give Goudelock a legit chance at competing for Meeks' spot
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby XXIV on Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:38 pm

I never thought Meeks would get his TO declined but now it's looking like a real possibility. He really disappointed me this season, specifically with his three point shooting. I'd be completely fine if we could replace him with Korver, Brooks, etc.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby thisbjgz on Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:46 pm

I'm really glad we called him back to be on our team. Judging from his exit interview..him explaining how he was MVP of the D-league...scoring 40...dropping 10 dimes...proving to doubters "they say I'm not a point guard but I'm averaging the most assists and my team is winning 12 straight" wrong...he has a ton to play for. He's hungry to get better. He said he was mad at how other players like Terrel Harris was injured and got called up to New Orleans..how Maalik Waynes was his back-up and still got called up to the Clippers made him confused and mad, you can tell his character that he just wants to get better. We need that young blood attitude on our squad.

he's undersized but he has hustle and can shoot the ball. Perhaps he can work on his ball-handling skills so he can become a Farmar-esque player. I remember Farmar came out and wasn't polished to be a PG, until Phil taught him how the balance btw scoring and becoming a play maker as well.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby Ariza3 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:12 pm

i loved his exit interview. the guy is just full of confidence and really believes hes a great player. he really seemed to learn alot before the dleague, in the dleague, and in the playoffs. i really like his attitude and the name "mini mamba" isnt just a name.

i hope he comes back bc he can score and get his own shot and even just a 3 or a floater or 2 off the bench would be awesome considering kobe and nash will take up a lot of minutes
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:39 pm

thisbjgz wrote:need that young blood attitude on our squad.
word

thisbjgz wrote:until Phil taught him how the balance btw scoring and becoming a play maker as well.

:man1:
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby BDG on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:46 pm

Someone remind me why we kept that scrub Morris over this kid?
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby pound4pound1 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:47 pm

BDG wrote:Someone remind me why we kept that scrub Morris over this kid?



i think Mike Brown liked him more
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby cthroatgtr on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:44 pm

I like Goudelock but I once again saw the same player. A streaky scorer that is too small to play SG and doesn't have the handles to play PG. He would work in short minutes as instant offense. If he is on you keep him out there, if not pull him. He has to be play with a SG/PG that can handle the ball and guard the other team's SG. He also really belongs as 10th man in the rotation. Nice off the bench in spot minutes but if you play him too long it will hurt your.

Morris...there is talent there but lacks BBall IQ. I still thought they should have found minutes for him during the season. He needs time on the court.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby 432J on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:04 pm

BDG wrote:Someone remind me why we kept that scrub Morris over this kid?

because mike brown
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby Punk-101 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:11 am

432J wrote:
BDG wrote:Someone remind me why we kept that scrub Morris over this kid?

because mike brown

Brown liked Ebanks' and Morris' length. Remember the jokes? :bang:
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby JGC on Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:18 am

cthroatgtr wrote:I like Goudelock but I once again saw the same player. A streaky scorer that is too small to play SG and doesn't have the handles to play PG. He would work in short minutes as instant offense. If he is on you keep him out there, if not pull him. He has to be play with a SG/PG that can handle the ball and guard the other team's SG. He also really belongs as 10th man in the rotation. Nice off the bench in spot minutes but if you play him too long it will hurt your.

Morris...there is talent there but lacks BBall IQ. I still thought they should have found minutes for him during the season. He needs time on the court.


I think overall, a good assessment. I will say the idea of playing someone and if they're on then you don't pull them will lower a player's confidence and result in poorer shooting. Sometimes, you gotta let players like this heat up and as long as it is within the context of the team offense, I think we should be ok with that. If we want guys like this to be effective, they have to get consistent playing time IMO and then you keep them in longer when they're on.

Always liked Glock because he's fearless and I have felt that we have lacked some of that and in some of the players we don't (i.e. MWP), the production is often not there.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby davriver290 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:22 pm

Is there any reports about this guy? The lakers better offer him a cheap contract, and get him to PLAY BACK UP PG OR SG!!! I really want this guy.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby SpencerHarrison on Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:27 pm

cthroatgtr wrote:I like Goudelock but I once again saw the same player. A streaky scorer that is too small to play SG and doesn't have the handles to play PG. He would work in short minutes as instant offense. If he is on you keep him out there, if not pull him. He has to be play with a SG/PG that can handle the ball and guard the other team's SG. He also really belongs as 10th man in the rotation. Nice off the bench in spot minutes but if you play him too long it will hurt your.

Morris...there is talent there but lacks BBall IQ. I still thought they should have found minutes for him during the season. He needs time on the court.



This seems dead on. I recall a lot of Glock possessions where he would dribble awkwardly around the top of the key and leave the ball open to steal. He's a one move player - either immediately attack or pass off. Imo, his value hinges on defense. If he can defend a point guard decently then I could live with Glock getting some minutes, and bringing the ball up, passing and waiting for a feed.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby Lakerjones on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:07 pm

I'm down to bring him back for a cheap contract. Let him and Meeks fight it out next year. We need some depth at SG. GLOCK's a pretty low risk signing as far as I can see.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:30 pm

Punk-101 wrote:
432J wrote:
BDG wrote:Someone remind me why we kept that scrub Morris over this kid?

because mike brown

Brown liked Ebanks' and Morris' length. Remember the jokes? :bang:

We know who Brown's drinking buddy was.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby JSM on Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:53 pm

Update: He's with the Bulls summer league team

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bulls-ann ... oster.html
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby therealdeal on Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:02 pm

Is he making any noise?
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby Weezy on Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:10 pm

I don't get why if our plan is to go cheap and tank we didn't just bring him back. He's cheap, he's young and can play a lot of minutes because eventually Kobe will be back, and he has no issues being asked to shoot/score.
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby kobe_mamba on Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:35 pm

therealdeal wrote:Is he making any noise?


Don't know if Gl0ck is.....but guess what, DJO has been....on none other than the Celtics Summer League Roster. Keep hearing on Twitter how DJO and new Draft pick Kelly Olynyk are both killing it

P.S. Olynyk can play....saw a bit of him at College, dude is good
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Re: Andrew Goudelock back with the Lakers

Postby rydjorker121 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:49 pm

Goudelock has the sort of killer instinct you'd like to see attached to a player who had the appropriate size and athleticism for his position. Seeing he has neither, nor does much to maximize his severe limitations, he's not NBA material. Yeah, he's able to hit runners, but that points to the crux of the problem--he's always stopped short of the basket due to his lack of athleticism, and runners are far lower percentage shots than at-rim shots and players rarely get fouled on runners. No defense, no at-rim game, no point guard skills. All he's really adept is hitting threes at a good, but not a great, level. That's a dime a dozen in the NBA, especially when attached to an undersized player.

DJO is of the same ilk. Perhaps brings more tough-nosed contain defense, but a streak shooter who's really a 6'2" shooting guard in disguise. Every summer league guy has fluke good games, but it doesn't affect the long term prognosis--these guys aren't long term material. At best they might get invites to training camp and earn a 13th roster spot or something, but they'll be right back at it again next year.
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