Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby revgen on Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:40 pm



Excellent breakdown by Coach Nick.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby trodgers on Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:22 pm

Will watch it tomorrow. I'm intrigued.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby purp n gold on Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:28 pm

Great post, his videos are very informative...
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby karacha on Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:37 pm

He explains everything clearly.

The offense is fine, as a concept, but it needs more work. And as I wrote earlier -- we need a system that can give us good shots, where our guys can score efficiently. The defense, however, is horrible... which is strange, because Brown is supposed to be a defensive coach. So, if Eddie is doing his job, what exactly is Mike doing? Also, rotations. Enough said. Find the right bench rotation (which should not be that hard) and fix the D.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby Punk-101 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:39 pm

The Princeton is going to get the team a lot of good shots as the first 2/3 of the video pointed out. However, jump to 6:00 mark and see where he explains that the team will still run the high PnR. Jeezus!, those shots were 1000x better and easier looks than even the examples of beautiful Princeton sets.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby karacha on Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:56 pm

Those are easy plays and don't require a lot of time. All of them know how to play P&R with Dwight. And when he gets the ball there, it's over. You just can't stop the guy. But OK, you don't want to run this all the time. A mix of Princeton and P&R plays with some rare iso for Kobe and Jamison (with the second unit) is fine. Mike's rotations are not.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:01 pm

How about the fact we've had a hand full of practices where we've had the entire team together to actually install it..... same thing as last year.

Howard and Hill were out in the early pre-season..... Kobe in the late pre-season.... Nash out now...

We're a year down the road and we still have no actual offensive scheme that's consistent from possession to possession.

What's going on defensively is a bigger mystery to me. How can we not know what to do there?....
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:09 pm

^^^ I use the Pau Gasol shrug test to know if we are running a solid defensive scheme. The more shrugs the worse the defense is and vice versa......

Mostly shrugs.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby lakersin4 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:52 pm

Amazing how fluid the offense looks & how easy the buckets can be when they're running it right.. I think this is the right offense for the team.. I hope they don't go away from it too early.. It's worth losing some games to get this amazing system down.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby gill on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:03 pm

Offense looks really good once they work the kinks out.

My concern with that video... it seems like only our starting 5 gets it so far. :man5:

And those high pick and roll videos... man... talk about easy buckets!
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby dj vitus on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:11 pm

lakersin4 wrote:Amazing how fluid the offense looks & how easy the buckets can be when they're running it right..

What's equally amazing is how often we actually ran the Princeton correctly. :man10:
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby dj vitus on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:12 pm

Rooscooter wrote:How about the fact we've had a hand full of practices where we've had the entire team together to actually install it..... same thing as last year.

Howard and Hill were out in the early pre-season..... Kobe in the late pre-season.... Nash out now...

We're a year down the road and we still have no actual offensive scheme that's consistent from possession to possession.

What's going on defensively is a bigger mystery to me. How can we not know what to do there?....

It's still a lot of just trusting each other and rotating quickly enough. The first part is fixable; the latter, well, let's just hope Howard doesn't foul out too often.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby gill on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 pm

What's going on defensively is a bigger mystery to me. How can we not know what to do there?....


An SI article can probably answer that. I think it's good insight on what MIGHT be happening in practices:

When George Karl was in between jobs in 2003-04, he wanted to learn about the Princeton offense and so he spent a few days with Northwestern watching the practices of coach Bill Carmody, who had been Carril's assistant and successor at Princeton. Karl was impressed by Carmody's ability to break down the complicated system and teach his players to run it efficiently. But he also noticed that Northwestern hadn't paid much attention to the defensive end. He asked Carmody how much time he spent coaching defense, and Carmody replied that there was little time to focus exclusively on defense because the intricacies of the offense ate up most of their practices. That revelation convinced Karl to stay away from the Princeton offense.

This isn't to say that the Princeton is a lousy offense. On the contrary: It is a terrific scheme, and no one in the NBA is better at teaching it than Eddie Jordan, a new assistant to Brown's Lakers. Jordan was the assistant for the Nets when his Princeton offense helped them reach the NBA Finals in 2002 and '03.
But those Nets were a running team. They were defined more than anything by their talent for scoring in transition. None of their scorers excelled at getting his own shot in the half court, and so they relied on the mechanism of the Princeton offense to help create shots when the game slowed down. It was a good system for the Nets.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/ian_thomsen/11/06/lakers-kobe-bryant-james-harden-mailbag/index.html#ixzz2BVlYi3BD


So hypothetically speaking... since this is Eddie Jordan's offense and it's taking the most of practice... Brown is doing what exactly other than screwing around with our lineups? :man3:
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby revgen on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:31 pm

^Well it's no wonder Mike is going with a "length" defense instead of defense that focuses on rotations.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby Finwë on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Very good breakdown.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:41 pm

This is completely backwards of how we should approach it..... we are not going to raise our possessions per game hardly at all this year.... we just don't have the personnel for it..... so the way to increase point differential is to play better defense and get better shots..... The playing better defense part should come first.... not second. Our defense the last couple of years was good enough to win but we lacked any idea on how to close close games other than Kobe isolation..... Now we are going to let that go because we are going to install a complicated offense that doesn't complement the personnel at the expense of the one thing we were doing at a championship level..... :bang:

This guy needs to go.....and go quickly. I'm becoming more convinced that JVG might be a good coach for this veteran team. He would instill a sense of toughness and a defense that will help us when the playoffs come around.... A good to very good defense would work great with an offense that lets Nash be Nash and Kobe be Kobe.... not some offensive system devised to create equal opportunity for guys like MWP and Morris over guys like Howard, Pau and Kobe.... ugh....
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby dj vitus on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:42 pm

PG: Howard
SG: Gasol
SF: Jamison
PF: Kobe
C: Steve Blake

:bang:
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby LOSLAKERS on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:06 pm

For some reason I just hate this guy. Can't put my finger on it however.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby Finwë on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:11 pm

Rooscooter wrote:This is completely backwards of how we should approach it..... we are not going to raise our possessions per game hardly at all this year.... we just don't have the personnel for it..... so the way to increase point differential is to play better defense and get better shots..... The playing better defense part should come first.... not second. Our defense the last couple of years was good enough to win but we lacked any idea on how to close close games other than Kobe isolation..... Now we are going to let that go because we are going to install a complicated offense that doesn't complement the personnel at the expense of the one thing we were doing at a championship level..... :bang:

This guy needs to go.....and go quickly. I'm becoming more convinced that JVG might be a good coach for this veteran team. He would instill a sense of toughness and a defense that will help us when the playoffs come around.... A good to very good defense would work great with an offense that lets Nash be Nash and Kobe be Kobe.... not some offensive system devised to create equal opportunity for guys like MWP and Morris over guys like Howard, Pau and Kobe.... ugh....

Assuming you're aiming this at the guy who made the video (coach nick is it?), I don't think the guy was advocating that offense was the main issue to look at.. I think he actually said "Synergy has their offense placed #5" and "their defense is 27th in the league" and indicated that we should worry about the D way more than O..
I think he just dissected the offense first because many were criticizing it and saying it was the cause of our problems (which is wrong btw), and it was probably the most demanded video.
I think to most of us it's clear that defense has been this team true problem, and would agree with you about getting a defensive coach like JVG. Your point about possessions per game and defense being key was spot on.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby DHL on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:11 pm

LOSLAKERS wrote:For some reason I just hate this guy. Can't put my finger on it however.

hes a douche
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby khmrP on Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:05 am

so how does the defense get better? :freak2:
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby lakersin4 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:09 am

Hopefully we won't need to spend as much time on offense once the guys have it down somewhat, say midway through the season. As Lakers fans we expect greatness, but this offense has potential to be even more potent than the triangle was. Once they have it down pretty well & we can focus on defense in practice, we might finally see this team playing like it's capable of & it will have all been worth it.
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby trodgers on Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:40 am

Awesome video. Interesting to see the explanations for the TOs. It's mostly Kobe doing the wrong thing :)

There's something good about that. If it were everyone screwing up, that's a lot of work to do. It's Kobe trying to do too much or drawing his man into the play as a help defender. Kobe will no doubt come to know this and adjust.

I think that fixing the offense is exactly the right thing to do in the short term. Be as efficient as we can on O, and think about the ripple effect. Gasol is a pouter. If he's involved offensively, his D will improve. Mike Brown's move to put MPW at the backup SG (which could be a bit of a detriment offensively) will likely be a huge help on D.

Dare I say I'm optimistic about Brown's adjustments?
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby LakerFanIam on Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:35 pm

Always enjoy BBallBreakdowns...

I'll be looking for that spin move trigger for the back door cut to the basket now...
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Re: Bball Breakdown: What's Wrong with the Lakers Offense

Postby karacha on Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:54 pm

Or they could simply use the good old, "1 finger, 2 fingers, closed fist..." cues for our PGs. I think that's better then the funny looking spin. :man1:
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