Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:21 pm

Bynum is a slow footed, slow thinking player who stops the flow of the offense. Nash thrives when he has guys who can either set up for the outside shot or can cut and move to create passing opportunities. Bynum is the opposite of this. He clogs up the paint and stops the flow of the offense. I'm telling you if we go with Bynum, our offense will be hurting. He can definitely get his no doubt but at the expense of the flow of the offense. And sometimes, that's more important than getting individual production. If Bynum was better at passing out of double team, this would be a lesser issue but the guy reacts so slowly.

Gasol fits. Barnes/Ebanks fits. MWP is another guy who hurts the flow of the offense because if he's not shooting 3's, he's clogging the lane with his post up game. If you want to know why our offense has sucked so bad, it's due to our inability to create easy baskets. I.e. lack of athleticism. Everything has been a grind. And it starts with MWP and Bynum. Getting rid of Fisher was a huge plus.

If we have Nash, Kobe, Barnes/Ebanks, Gasol and Howard, it's over. We are right there with any team. We not only have athleticism, we have the pieces to complement Nash. All guys who can move without the ball. We will be able to create easy baskets, have good flow with our offense and play some darn good defense. We really need to get Howard. It's simply a no brainer.

Thoughts?
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:22 pm

Anyone fits with Nash. He's that good.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:24 pm

Howard is obviously the better fit, but Bynum will be fine.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Weezy on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:26 pm

I love this proclamation despite the fact that they haven't had a single practice together yet, or played a single possession together in a real game yet.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby revgen on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:29 pm

Hmmm...let me see, Bynum slows down the offense, Artest slows down the offense, yet Kobe was the one leading the league in USG%.

The problem with our offense is the same problem Cleveland had with their offense. Mike Brown.

ISO. ISO. ISO. ISO.

No man movemant. No P&R with Kobe & Pau or Kobe & Drew. It doesn't matter who is doubled on this team, everybody stands around and never moves. Without man-movement, it's difficult to pass out of the double-team without the pass being intercepted by the defense.

The fact that nobody in our starting lineup could shoot didn't help either. Creating congestion in our half-court sets.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby kray28 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:33 pm

If we continue to run the same retarded "Bynum is the primary post option" offense, I wholeheartedly agree.

Thing is, with Nash in there, I don't think that's going to happen. The offense will have to be radically different to take full advantage of Nash' strengths, and that means that everyone (including both Drew and Kobe) will have to adapt their approach to the offense. Isolation ball must be minimized, and I think that's the core competency that Nash brings to the offense.

The player I think who will have to change the least about his game will be Pau....who's a very natural and complementary fit with a guard like Nash.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:37 pm

revgen wrote:Hmmm...let me see, Bynum slows down the offense, Artest slows down the offense, yet Kobe was the one leading the league in USG%.

The problem with our offense is the same problem Cleveland had with their offense. Mike Brown.

ISO. ISO. ISO. ISO.

No man movemant. No P&R with Kobe & Pau or Kobe & Drew. It doesn't matter who is doubled on this team, everybody stands around and never moves. Without man-movement, it's difficult to pass out of the double-team without the pass being intercepted by the defense.

The fact that nobody in our starting lineup could shoot didn't help either. Creating congestion in our half-court sets.


You can't have man movement if you have slow, non-athletic guys (i.e. Fisher, MWP and Bynum). Guys who can move well without the ball need to have some level of athleticism (i.e. Ariza, Barnes, Ebanks, etc). And we do run the P&R. We just only have one guy who can run it effectively and that's Gasol. Bynum is way too slow of foot to be effective at it.

And the iso for Kobe has always been a mainstay of this offense when nothing was there. Brown didn't introduce this. That's not the issue. Our issue is that we have too many guys who can't move and can't create any type of flow on offense, something we had in 2007-2009 with Odom, Ariza and a younger Gasol.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Finwë on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:38 pm

kray28 wrote:If we continue to run the same retarded "Bynum is the primary post option" offense, I wholeheartedly agree.

Thing is, with Nash in there, I don't think that's going to happen. The offense have to be radically different to take full advantage of Nash' strengths, and that means that everyone (including both Drew and Kobe) will have to adapt their approach to the offense. Isolation ball must be minimized, and I think that's core competency that Nash brings to the offense.

The player I think who will have to change the least about his game will be Pau....who's a very natural and complementary fit with a guard like Nash.

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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:42 pm

kray28 wrote:If we continue to run the same retarded "Bynum is the primary post option" offense, I wholeheartedly agree.

Thing is, with Nash in there, I don't think that's going to happen. The offense have to be radically different to take full advantage of Nash' strengths, and that means that everyone (including both Drew and Kobe) will have to adapt their approach to the offense. Isolation ball must be minimized, and I think that's core competency that Nash brings to the offense.

The player I think who will have to change the least about his game will be Pau....who's a very natural and complementary fit with a guard like Nash.


That's what i'm saying. Bynum simply does not complement Nash's talents whereas Gasol fits like a glove.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Kit on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:48 pm

I believe Nash will help Bynum get deep position easier than last before.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Helljumper on Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:56 pm

We're not building this team around Nash. It doesn't matter if Bynum isn't the perfect fit for Nash's style of play. Regardless of how they fit together, Nash is still an excellent PG that will make life easier for Bynum.

Yes, Nash is going to handle the ball a lot and run most of our offense. He adds that as a brand new element of our game, but it's not going to be the only element of the game. We're not suddenly turning into the Phoenix Suns + Kobe. This is still the Lakers. We're still going to play a slowed down half-court game on most possessions. Kobe's still going to play iso and take/make hero shots. Bynum's still going to get the ball deep in the post and use his slow post moves despite its ramifications on the offensive flow. The difference is that when we employ that style of play now, we'll have the best passer in the league to get Kobe/Drew the ball where they can best operate one-on-one AND the best shooter in the league to space the floor for them.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby gill on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:02 pm

Nash is an offensive playbook all by himself. He will maximize Drew and Pau to his liking whether Mike Brown likes it or not.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby XXIV on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:07 pm

Just because Drew doesn't have the footstep to match Dwight, he can still be very effective with Nash in the half court.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby revgen on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:10 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
revgen wrote:Hmmm...let me see, Bynum slows down the offense, Artest slows down the offense, yet Kobe was the one leading the league in USG%.

The problem with our offense is the same problem Cleveland had with their offense. Mike Brown.

ISO. ISO. ISO. ISO.

No man movemant. No P&R with Kobe & Pau or Kobe & Drew. It doesn't matter who is doubled on this team, everybody stands around and never moves. Without man-movement, it's difficult to pass out of the double-team without the pass being intercepted by the defense.

The fact that nobody in our starting lineup could shoot didn't help either. Creating congestion in our half-court sets.


You can't have man movement if you have slow, non-athletic guys (i.e. Fisher, MWP and Bynum). Guys who can move well without the ball need to have some level of athleticism (i.e. Ariza, Barnes, Ebanks, etc). And we do run the P&R. We just only have one guy who can run it effectively and that's Gasol. Bynum is way too slow of foot to be effective at it.

And the iso for Kobe has always been a mainstay of this offense when nothing was there. Brown didn't introduce this. That's not the issue. Our issue is that we have too many guys who can't move and can't create any type of flow on offense, something we had in 2007-2009 with Odom, Ariza and a younger Gasol.


The lack of man-movement is due to a bad scheme. The same scheme Mike Brown brought with him from Cleveland. You can't make the argument that our team moves slow when they don't move at all.

Kobe used to get more points of P&R's with Pau and through cuts (man movement) dictated by the triangle. The last time he scored on ISO's the way he's doing now was in 2006, the first year that Phil installed the triangle with the new group and nobody knew how to run it.

Athleticism is something we need more of, but we also need a coach who institutes man-movement into our offense like Phil would do with the cuts prescribed in the triangle. Mike Brown just lets guys ISO and have everyone stand around. There is no prescribed man-movement. That means any man movement has to be done instinctively. Only Matt Barnes was good at doing that.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby pound4pound1 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:17 pm

Drew is a perfect fit for Nash


Nash thrives with players who run the break and pull up for 3s
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby TIME on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:24 pm

I don't think there is any player currently in the NBA that does not fit with Nash. Some are better fits than others but Nash's special gift is figuring out how to fit with each player on his team and make them better. He will make Andrew more of a weapon than he has been until now. And on the other side of the ball, Andrew will return the favor and make Steve a better defender.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby the_Dude on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:29 pm

TIME wrote:I don't think there is any player currently in the NBA that does not fit with Nash. Some are better fits than others but Nash's special gift is figuring out how to fit with each player on his team and make them better. He will make Andrew more of a weapon than he has been until now. And on the other side of the ball, Andrew will return the favor and make Steve a better defender.

Perfectly said.
Maybe we can have him player/coach this season for real. :man12:
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Finwë on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:30 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:Drew is a perfect fit for Nash


Nash thrives with players who run the break and pull up for 3s

LMAO
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Psychobroker on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:32 pm

Just like an old Kareem did not fit with Magic, right?
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Lakerjones on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:33 pm

On paper and in the past, I agree that Howard would seem a better fit with Nash. However, we don't know what kind of player he'll be after surgery on that disc.

That being said, I'm with TIME - Nash can work with anyone. He'll make Drew's life a WHOLE lot easier than it has ever been on the offensive side, and like TIME mentioned, that will hopefully lead to him returning the favor on the defensive end.

There's no reason Drew can't be every bit the defensive anchor that D12 is and maybe even better actually. The guy is enormous, strong and has a monstrous wingspan. He's not the absolute athletic freak that Dwight is, but blocking shots doesn't have to be about athleticism when you are as big as Drew is.

More than anything I think Drew needs to commit more to playing killer D. If he does so, the sky's the limit for his game. Having Nash feeding him the ball will definitely up his offensive game. Seeing as Drew's mood seems to follow his offense it should inspire him on the other end. At least I hope so.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby khmrP on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:34 pm

Finwë wrote:
pound4pound1 wrote:Drew is a perfect fit for Nash


Nash thrives with players who run the break and pull up for 3s

LMAO

:man10: , well Bynum did say he was going to work on his jump shot this off-season.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Psychobroker on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:34 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:Drew is a perfect fit for Nash


Nash thrives with players who run the break and pull up for 3s


That's about the worst coaching philosophy ever and has yet to result in a championship for any of the teams that employ it (Nelson, D'Antoni, etc)
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Psychobroker on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:52 pm

Dwight doesn't draw doubles before the catch like Bynum started to in the 2nd half of the season, so I'm not sure he'd even provide better spacing in the half court set. Regardless of his ability to run the break, he's got his own drawbacks we could make an entire thread about.

Bynum and Nash would be just fine together.
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:12 pm

So..... Nash can make everyone on the roster better except Bynum?..... Ummmm O.K. :man10:

I actually think Bynum has a few more tools offensively that make him fit BETTER than Howard would.... Andrew can face up from time to time..... Howard's jump shot is even worse than his free throws..... and that's hard to do...

The biggest hurdle we will have regardless of who is in the post is our SF position. Nash will average only about 5 assist a game if MWP is the one "keeping the defense honest" from outside.... and it doesn't get any better from there with Ebanks....
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Re: Bynum does not fit with Nash.

Postby lakerfan2 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:01 pm

:man10:

A player that was superior footwork than Howard, and with soft hands?

You got to be kidding me. How many times has Bynum scored off lobs or easy baskets with interior passing from Ron or Gasol

Now magnify that x100 with Nash who can penetrate the paint with ease and find his man like a sniper.

Not to mention, Nash's floor spacing shooting will give Bynum more space to operate because teams won't dare to drop off Kobe or Nash. When have you seen Nash EVER play with a post presence like Bynum who draw's doubles, not to mention KOBE.

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