Byron Scott Discussion: Getting guys motivated to fight

Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby Fulzgold on Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:39 pm

Barnstable wrote:
Fulzgold wrote:Actually I'm here because i'm a long time hardcore fan too and I'm not happy with what the current regime is doing. There are a lot of us out here, even if we are discouraged from stating that around here. :boxing1:

Discouraged? I see negativity nearly every page of every thread in LD and the worst counter I see is essentially saying "you are wrong". Should us fans that disagree with your view point not state so for fear of discouraging your freedom to hate? This is a forum, disagreement and discussion is a major component.


Yeah i agree with that sentiment but when one long time poster questions why I'm even posting by asking "does it make you feel better" to post what I think, then another says "get an effing clue" (among other things) that's a little different than discussion and disagreement over the content of my posts. In the end none of it effects my life one iota but lets call a spade a spade in both of those cases. Both qualify as "discouragement".
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:57 pm

Fulzgold wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
Fulzgold wrote:Actually I'm here because i'm a long time hardcore fan too and I'm not happy with what the current regime is doing. There are a lot of us out here, even if we are discouraged from stating that around here. :boxing1:


Question: Were you happy when we traded for Howard and Nash 2 off seasons ago? This regime did that and almost everyone here was overjoyed. Look at the Howard and Nash threads. It was this regime that brought all of those happy posts and posters. Two seasons later we've blown a number of first round picks and have no assets to trade. If you were happy then this is what the price was for that happiness. We swung for the fences big time and now we get 4 to 5 seasons of real tough ball to watch as Laker fans.

You can't separate the "regime" from that if you were happy with Howard and Nash then and are upset with no Melo and no assets now. Once that was done the regime was out of options.


Honestly didn't like the Nash trade at the time and here is why: Chris Paul opted in for his final year so his Free agency lined up with Dwight's. The Nash trade assured that along with Pau and Kobe's salary, that we'd be pretty capped out and couldn't make a run at CP the next year. Dwight may have stayed to play with CP and Kobe. Also I'm big on defense and Nash is not good on D as we all know.

I was lukewarm on picking up Dwight because I was always a big Bynum fan (on the court) until he started to show his terrible personality off the court. That said, I thought Dwight + CP3 would have been something to build around. It would have required using the amnesty on Pau (or Kobe-yikes that won't go over well) but if it all works we are back in the game for the next decade. It was rumored that CP3 and Dwight wanted to play together but then the Clips fired Del Negro, got Doc and suddenly CP3 had a legit contender with his Bird rights so stayed put.

I'm not a Jim Buss fan. I gave him some time but he's just awful. He's in over his head. I think his days are numbered though. Probably take 3-4 years but there's no way he'll last in my opinion.


I didn't like either move. I liked the idea of CP3 in a Laker uni far less..... Being nice here... :man10:

He and Howard are deeply flawed and two of them is no better than one.

As for Jimmy.... I put much more of this on Mitch....he's the paid basketball mind... He's either behind most of this or allowing himself to be used..... Either way I think it's time for him to go. He's playing today's game with a hand from 2005. Trading so many picks under this CBA was not smart..... Not checking Nash's health.... Not smart..... Not getting a guarantee from Howard.... Not smart.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby Toklat on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:11 am

No one could predict Nash getting injured. It happens and to blame anyone for it, even Nash doesn't seem to be useful to our team. As it turned out Bynum was done when we traded him and I have a hard time believing anyone is sad Howard is in Houston. We are so fortunate he is gone. I know some of the turn of events have been frustrating but most couldn't have been foreseen. Yes there have been a few mistakes but every team has its moments.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby LTLakerFan on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:31 am

Fulzgold wrote:
Barnstable wrote:
Fulzgold wrote:Actually I'm here because i'm a long time hardcore fan too and I'm not happy with what the current regime is doing. There are a lot of us out here, even if we are discouraged from stating that around here. :boxing1:

Discouraged? I see negativity nearly every page of every thread in LD and the worst counter I see is essentially saying "you are wrong". Should us fans that disagree with your view point not state so for fear of discouraging your freedom to hate? This is a forum, disagreement and discussion is a major component.


Yeah i agree with that sentiment but when one long time poster questions why I'm even posting by asking "does it make you feel better" to post what I think, then another says "get an effing clue" (among other things) that's a little different than discussion and disagreement over the content of my posts. In the end none of it effects my life one iota but lets call a spade a spade in both of those cases. Both qualify as "discouragement".


Some of your quotes below that prompted the "get an effing clue" and subsequent specific "BS" (my opinion) rebuttals after you stating I might be one of the people being hoodwinked"

"Heving all those former Lakers there was more of a PR thing and I'm sure he knows that. Pretty sure TWC has major say in every move the lakers make at this point (Jeremy Lin, this hire, etc)"

"Signing Jeremy Lin will obviously help ratings. $48million for Kobe was obviously nothing to do with where his market value as a player but had to do with his popularity (ratings).

"Hiring a laker great to coach the team who is marginally qualified otherwise helps create the view that the old days are back.

"I'm not saying they're bossing Mitch around directly. I'm saying Mitch has to take Lin instead of say Sessions or someone comparable because there are more people to answer to as of TWC's massive commitment."

"AMEN! Agree, that it's mainly a PR hire and it appears to be working, judging by the utter glee being expressed about hiring a marginally successful, journeyman coach. It's not pessimistic to say so. It's just being realistic about what just happened. Counting the days til Jeanie takes over..."

"Re: his dream job. This isn't the Make a Wish foundation, it's the greatest franchise in American sports" "There were better options out there. Jim Buss is the laughing stock of the league at this point."


^^^said in response to me posting this assessment from another member that I agree very much with:

"There is plenty of upside to us offering Scott the job. We are offering a former Laker his shot at his dream job. I thought we wanted people who want the bright lights of L.A. and are willing to put their career on the line for a shot here. If he does well here, it's a feel good story. Kobes going to play hard for him. Scott won't lose the locker room here. Kobe will make sure that doesn't happen. Randle, our future, buys into Scott since Kobe is and thus he'll take over from ther in the future. If Scott fails, he fails. Management gave a Laker his dream job. Most reasonable fans should understand this."
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:35 am

I guess the one detail in the contract that no one knows is that if the Lakers somehow can't meet a certain minimum rating (which I doubt we would EVER get to), then TWC has the right to break the contract, even then, that has to happen over a period of time, and I again, would not expect the Lakers to go down that route.

But at some certain point during deal, both parties probably understood that 1. in any of which point, either are NOT losing money no matter the situation 2. the better the Lakers do, the more money each are eligible to make.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby Fulzgold on Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:39 am

LTLakerFan wrote:
Fulzgold wrote:
Barnstable wrote:
Fulzgold wrote:Actually I'm here because i'm a long time hardcore fan too and I'm not happy with what the current regime is doing. There are a lot of us out here, even if we are discouraged from stating that around here. :boxing1:

Discouraged? I see negativity nearly every page of every thread in LD and the worst counter I see is essentially saying "you are wrong". Should us fans that disagree with your view point not state so for fear of discouraging your freedom to hate? This is a forum, disagreement and discussion is a major component.


Yeah i agree with that sentiment but when one long time poster questions why I'm even posting by asking "does it make you feel better" to post what I think, then another says "get an effing clue" (among other things) that's a little different than discussion and disagreement over the content of my posts. In the end none of it effects my life one iota but lets call a spade a spade in both of those cases. Both qualify as "discouragement".


Some of your quotes below that prompted the "get an effing clue" and subsequent specific "BS" (my opinion) rebuttals after you stating I might be one of the people being hoodwinked"

"Heving all those former Lakers there was more of a PR thing and I'm sure he knows that. Pretty sure TWC has major say in every move the lakers make at this point (Jeremy Lin, this hire, etc)"

"Signing Jeremy Lin will obviously help ratings. $48million for Kobe was obviously nothing to do with where his market value as a player but had to do with his popularity (ratings).

"Hiring a laker great to coach the team who is marginally qualified otherwise helps create the view that the old days are back.

"I'm not saying they're bossing Mitch around directly. I'm saying Mitch has to take Lin instead of say Sessions or someone comparable because there are more people to answer to as of TWC's massive commitment."

"AMEN! Agree, that it's mainly a PR hire and it appears to be working, judging by the utter glee being expressed about hiring a marginally successful, journeyman coach. It's not pessimistic to say so. It's just being realistic about what just happened. Counting the days til Jeanie takes over..."

"Re: his dream job. This isn't the Make a Wish foundation, it's the greatest franchise in American sports" "There were better options out there. Jim Buss is the laughing stock of the league at this point."


^^^said in response to me posting this assessment from another member that I agree very much with:

"There is plenty of upside to us offering Scott the job. We are offering a former Laker his shot at his dream job. I thought we wanted people who want the bright lights of L.A. and are willing to put their career on the line for a shot here. If he does well here, it's a feel good story. Kobes going to play hard for him. Scott won't lose the locker room here. Kobe will make sure that doesn't happen. Randle, our future, buys into Scott since Kobe is and thus he'll take over from ther in the future. If Scott fails, he fails. Management gave a Laker his dream job. Most reasonable fans should understand this."


I stand by everything quoted there. I'm sorry to splash dreams with cold water but its the offseason where we have nothing to do but express what we think. I'm sure there are fans out there who would think I'm making some sense. Not all fans post here, obviously. Some would think you need to get an effing clue.

I admire the optimism, though. I hope Byron/Jimmy prove me wrong and Kobe is MVP for that $24million.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby Punk-101 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:43 am

I wonder what style of offense we're going to run?

There was a quote a few pages back saying Kobe and Scott have been discussing strategy all summer. My guess is that Kobe's pushing for an offense that would look like what we ran at the end of the Dwight Howard year where we went 26-12 (or whatever), featuring Kobe facilitating triangle sets from the midpost. Byron I'm sure wants to make sure and utilize Lin and Nash (when he's healthy) in plenty of PnRs. Byron mentioned some Princton sets as well. If they can balance these aspects, I really like how they would fit with the roster.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:54 am

1. Lin was not signed. We traded for him and received a 1st and 2nd rounder from Houston, either to keep or use as trade assets.

2. Lin is a much more capable PG than Sessions ever will be, despite the price difference, that wasn't our call.

3. Byron's qualifications as a coach, despite his record, are still higher than some of the favorites that were floating around here. Neither Hollins nor Mark Jackson ever made it to the Finals. Byron did it in back to back years with the Nets. Neither of Hollins or Jackson have ever been a Coach of the Year either. The only other qualified candidate was George Karl, and the Lakers did consider him a strong candidate. Was Byron's tenure as a Laker taken into consideration? Of course, any Laker fan would. Between Byron and Karl, there wasn't much difference between the two except that. To call the Byron hire strictly or mainly a PR move is a slap in the face to Byron.

4. The Kobe contract is what it is. We STILL had room for Carmelo this year with his contract and he didn't bite. Mitch still put together a decent team on favorable contracts, and STILL have flexibility for 2015 (Nash, Lin, Boozer, Hill, Davis...etc. are expiring or have options) and 2016 with Kobe's massive contract coming off the books, which "coincidentally" happens to land on the same year Kevin Durant, Lebron...etc become free agents and the NBA strikes a new TV deal. There's a lot more of what goes into the thinking of these contracts than "PR Moves", it's all strategy and aligning the Lakers the ability to land a potential superstar post-Kobe.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:59 am

Punk-101 wrote:I wonder what style of offense we're going to run?

There was a quote a few pages back saying Kobe and Scott have been discussing strategy all summer. My guess is that Kobe's pushing for an offense that would look like what we ran at the end of the Dwight Howard year where we went 26-12 (or whatever), featuring Kobe facilitating triangle sets from the midpost. Byron I'm sure wants to make sure and utilize Lin and Nash (when he's healthy) in plenty of PnRs. Byron mentioned some Princton sets as well. If they can balance these aspects, I really like how they would fit with the roster.


Byron ran a mostly Princeton based offense, but during his Lakers introduction, he did say he would mix things up. He's never had a player on his team that was able to create for himself in Kobe, so that's something he will adjust, and probably through the post with Kobe.

Scott seemed to be very adept at running the pick and roll, Kidd/Martin/Van Horn in New Jersey, and CP3/West/Chandler in New Orleans, so we might see a lot of that with Lin/Kobe with Boozer/Hill/Randle/Davis.

The one thing we will need are some shooters. Young is plenty capable, but Meeks and Farmar were our heavy hitters last year and we lost them. But as long as we move the ball and go for easy buckets rather than settling for the 3, that'd probably be better.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby Barnstable on Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:33 am

Fulzgold wrote:
LTLakerFan wrote:
Fulzgold wrote:
Barnstable wrote:
Fulzgold wrote:Actually I'm here because i'm a long time hardcore fan too and I'm not happy with what the current regime is doing. There are a lot of us out here, even if we are discouraged from stating that around here. :boxing1:

Discouraged? I see negativity nearly every page of every thread in LD and the worst counter I see is essentially saying "you are wrong". Should us fans that disagree with your view point not state so for fear of discouraging your freedom to hate? This is a forum, disagreement and discussion is a major component.


Yeah i agree with that sentiment but when one long time poster questions why I'm even posting by asking "does it make you feel better" to post what I think, then another says "get an effing clue" (among other things) that's a little different than discussion and disagreement over the content of my posts. In the end none of it effects my life one iota but lets call a spade a spade in both of those cases. Both qualify as "discouragement".


Some of your quotes below that prompted the "get an effing clue" and subsequent specific "BS" (my opinion) rebuttals after you stating I might be one of the people being hoodwinked"

"Heving all those former Lakers there was more of a PR thing and I'm sure he knows that. Pretty sure TWC has major say in every move the lakers make at this point (Jeremy Lin, this hire, etc)"

"Signing Jeremy Lin will obviously help ratings. $48million for Kobe was obviously nothing to do with where his market value as a player but had to do with his popularity (ratings).

"Hiring a laker great to coach the team who is marginally qualified otherwise helps create the view that the old days are back.

"I'm not saying they're bossing Mitch around directly. I'm saying Mitch has to take Lin instead of say Sessions or someone comparable because there are more people to answer to as of TWC's massive commitment."

"AMEN! Agree, that it's mainly a PR hire and it appears to be working, judging by the utter glee being expressed about hiring a marginally successful, journeyman coach. It's not pessimistic to say so. It's just being realistic about what just happened. Counting the days til Jeanie takes over..."

"Re: his dream job. This isn't the Make a Wish foundation, it's the greatest franchise in American sports" "There were better options out there. Jim Buss is the laughing stock of the league at this point."


^^^said in response to me posting this assessment from another member that I agree very much with:

"There is plenty of upside to us offering Scott the job. We are offering a former Laker his shot at his dream job. I thought we wanted people who want the bright lights of L.A. and are willing to put their career on the line for a shot here. If he does well here, it's a feel good story. Kobes going to play hard for him. Scott won't lose the locker room here. Kobe will make sure that doesn't happen. Randle, our future, buys into Scott since Kobe is and thus he'll take over from ther in the future. If Scott fails, he fails. Management gave a Laker his dream job. Most reasonable fans should understand this."


I stand by everything quoted there. I'm sorry to splash dreams with cold water but its the offseason where we have nothing to do but express what we think. I'm sure there are fans out there who would think I'm making some sense. Not all fans post here, obviously. Some would think you need to get an effing clue.

I admire the optimism, though. I hope Byron/Jimmy prove me wrong and Kobe is MVP for that $24million.


And there we have exactly why you shouldn't be complaining about your opinion being discouraged. You talk to the optimistic posters in here as if they're being naive and unrealistic in their optimism and you're bringing them back to reality somehow. That's your POV, but it's not everyone else's POV and you're being just as discouraging to optimists as they are to you. You don't need to just change your view to suit us, but don't complain like you're being oppressed when your own words are just as discouraging to us.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby LTLakerFan on Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:58 am

Fulzgold
Byron is one issue. What Kobe has left in our opinions is another. I guess the guy just disappeared to you as a player when he got hurt. But I've mentioned also twice now Jeremy Lin back at you with your cynical he was (mainly) TW public relations and dollars only to their decision. Please explain to me how screwing Houston, taking their excellent, unappreciated guard from them plus 1st and 2nd future picks.....in what universe is bad compared to having brought Ramon Sessions (implied) instead. LMAO. WTF has Ramon Sessions ever done of note in the league??? He shrinks in big moments in Los Angeles. Lin is a baller with a big heart and confidence in himself.

So tell us please specifically how Ramon Sessions is better for this team than Jeremy Lin, who as mentioned by others here also.....has always been desirable to the Lakers?
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby Fulzgold on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:20 pm

I called Sessions comparable, which he is. Does that mean he is better? It's hard to reason with someone who can't even see the difference between comparable and better but i will try. Again I repeat, i like Lin but the two players are definitely comparable in every way (except popularity and salary).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ira01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nje01.html

career per 36 min averages:
Sessions- 16.4pts 6.5 assists 2.7 turnovers
Lin- 15.6pts 6.4 assists 3.4 turnovers

appearances on Sportscenter/jerseys sold: advantage Lin.

They got paid an extra pick to take some salary and that's great but Lin's cap hit is double what Sessions salary would've been and Lin's actual salary is 3-4 times what Sessions will make. Is he 3-4 times better than Sessions? No.

Then why would WE pay that much for a player like Lin? RATINGS/ATTENDANCE. He's a hundred times more popular than Sessions.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby LTLakerFan on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:30 pm

Sessions played in Los Angeles and in the post season. He shrunk in the playoffs. He shrunk in big moments. Lin thrives. Means Lin is more alpha than Sessions. Likely. They made a movie for crissakes. By reports here, worth watching and I will. But he overcame a whole lot it sounds like. Like many others. He is a winner.

We tried Sessions and he couldn't handle it or didn't want to be here.... just like Dwight.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby therealdeal on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:58 pm

Why would we pay that much for Lin? Maybe because we got 2 picks back with him and we needed a PG.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby Fulzgold on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:04 pm

I'd rather have Lin too but he has shot a career .365 in the playoffs so let's not exaggerate his alpha male status :man10:
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby LTLakerFan on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:29 pm

Fulzgold wrote:I'd rather have Lin too but he has shot a career .365 in the playoffs so let's not exaggerate his alpha male status :man10:


Yeah laugh all you want but this is one of the things you have been pissing and moaning about and telling me and others, with this apparent bullet point of yours, that YOU get it and lots of us are being "hoodwinked".

Mitch with some good luck bent Morey over on the Lin acquisition and got the superior guard period. A GAMER, a WINNER and a guy who steps up in big moments. A guy who wants to be here.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby sister golden hair on Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:08 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
Fulzgold wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
Fulzgold wrote:Actually I'm here because i'm a long time hardcore fan too and I'm not happy with what the current regime is doing. There are a lot of us out here, even if we are discouraged from stating that around here. :boxing1:


Question: Were you happy when we traded for Howard and Nash 2 off seasons ago? This regime did that and almost everyone here was overjoyed. Look at the Howard and Nash threads. It was this regime that brought all of those happy posts and posters. Two seasons later we've blown a number of first round picks and have no assets to trade. If you were happy then this is what the price was for that happiness. We swung for the fences big time and now we get 4 to 5 seasons of real tough ball to watch as Laker fans.

You can't separate the "regime" from that if you were happy with Howard and Nash then and are upset with no Melo and no assets now. Once that was done the regime was out of options.


Honestly didn't like the Nash trade at the time and here is why: Chris Paul opted in for his final year so his Free agency lined up with Dwight's. The Nash trade assured that along with Pau and Kobe's salary, that we'd be pretty capped out and couldn't make a run at CP the next year. Dwight may have stayed to play with CP and Kobe. Also I'm big on defense and Nash is not good on D as we all know.

I was lukewarm on picking up Dwight because I was always a big Bynum fan (on the court) until he started to show his terrible personality off the court. That said, I thought Dwight + CP3 would have been something to build around. It would have required using the amnesty on Pau (or Kobe-yikes that won't go over well) but if it all works we are back in the game for the next decade. It was rumored that CP3 and Dwight wanted to play together but then the Clips fired Del Negro, got Doc and suddenly CP3 had a legit contender with his Bird rights so stayed put.

I'm not a Jim Buss fan. I gave him some time but he's just awful. He's in over his head. I think his days are numbered though. Probably take 3-4 years but there's no way he'll last in my opinion.


I didn't like either move. I liked the idea of CP3 in a Laker uni far less..... Being nice here... :man10:

He and Howard are deeply flawed and two of them is no better than one.

As for Jimmy.... I put much more of this on Mitch....he's the paid basketball mind... He's either behind most of this or allowing himself to be used..... Either way I think it's time for him to go. He's playing today's game with a hand from 2005. Trading so many picks under this CBA was not smart..... Not checking Nash's health.... Not smart..... Not getting a guarantee from Howard.... Not smart.


One bad decision after another. Agreed.

And, BTW, to the earlier posters: there is a very definite "the FO can do wrong" bias in these parts. Very definitely. The responses are never on the merits. It's always that one is called a "hater" or simply "too negative."

I's weird.

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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby sister golden hair on Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:12 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:
Fulzgold wrote:I'd rather have Lin too but he has shot a career .365 in the playoffs so let's not exaggerate his alpha male status :man10:


Yeah laugh all you want but this is one of the things you have been pissing and moaning about and telling me and others, with this apparent bullet point of yours, that YOU get it and lots of us are being "hoodwinked".

Mitch with some good luck bent Morey over on the Lin acquisition and got the superior guard period. A GAMER, a WINNER and a guy who steps up in big moments. A guy who wants to be here.



I like Lin. I wanted the lakers to draft him. But let's not oversell him. He still has a a lot to prove in the league. And I hardly think he Mitch bent Morey over. I'm glad they recived a (probable late-first rounder). I just wish they hadn't given away a potentially high first rounder to Phoenix which the Suns will cash in on next off-season.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby therealdeal on Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:57 am

Those two deals are completely different. Houston gave us Lin, a 1st rounder, and a 2nd rounder for the rights to an overseas player that'll never play in the NBA. How is that NOT a win for us in every way? It has nothing to do with the Phoenix deal in which we still might have won the trade if Nash doesn't break his leg the 2nd game of the season. But since he did, we lost that trade. Badly.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:06 am

therealdeal wrote:Those two deals are completely different. Houston gave us Lin, a 1st rounder, and a 2nd rounder for the rights to an overseas player that'll never play in the NBA. How is that NOT a win for us in every way? It has nothing to do with the Phoenix deal in which we still might have won the trade if Nash doesn't break his leg the 2nd game of the season. But since he did, we lost that trade. Badly.


Agreed. Lost the Nash trade. No doubt. However, the Lin trade gives us another first and highly protected second round draft pick for 2015, and judging from Houston's offseason, I don't think they'll be as good as last season. Obviously, the worse they are the better the pick; if we get a high teens/low 20's, then I'm good.

We also have our 1st and 2nd round for next year as well in 2016. So, as it stands, currently, we'll be in the next two drafts with a ton of cap space to improve this team; through the draft, trades, and free agency. A 'hybrid' if you will...sure things could have worked out better, but they didn't, and we're now finally what seems to be moving in a forward direction, IMO.
Last edited by lukewaltonsdad on Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby therealdeal on Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:39 am

lukewaltonsdad wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Those two deals are completely different. Houston gave us Lin, a 1st rounder, and a 2nd rounder for the rights to an overseas player that'll never play in the NBA. How is that NOT a win for us in every way? It has nothing to do with the Phoenix deal in which we still might have won the trade if Nash doesn't break his leg the 2nd game of the season. But since he did, we lost that trade. Badly.


Agreed. Lost the Nash trade. No doubt. However, the Lin trade gives us another first and highly protected second round draft pick for 2015, and judging from Houston's offseason, I don't think they'll be as good as last season. Obviously, the worse they are the better the pick; if we get a high teens/low 20's, then I'm good.

We also have our 1st and 2nd round for next year as well in 2016. So, as it stands, currently, we'll be in the next two drafts with a ton of cap space to improve this team through the draft, trades, and free agency. A 'hybrid' if you will...sure things could have worked out better, but they didn't, and we're now finally what seems to be moving in a forward direction, IMO.

Absolutely. I agree 100%.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby wolfpaclaker on Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:27 am

I agree with SGH's assessment on Lin, Lin is a good backup but not worth 15 M. And he'll go to the highest bidder in a year.

However, I do think the Lin trade was a win for us and good move from the FO. There were two things I liked for us this offseason. One was keeping the draft pick, and drafting Randle. Two, was making the Lin trade. I don't see Lin worth keeping longer than this season. If he stays for cheap, great. If he wants more than MLE money, or long years at 7 M per, I'm not interested at all. Let him walk. But the deal is still good for us. We basically netted a 1st rounder back.

If I had my way, we'd tank this year, and we wind up with another top 5 draft pick along with Houston's pick (likely in the 20s). That + Randle, gives us 3 pieces for the longterm. We can keep these pieces, we can trade them. Doesn't matter which. But they are very good assets to have.

8.3 M in capspace and 15 M in salary for a 1st round pick? It's not a great move, but still a move we had to make. There's also a small chance we may deal Lin before deadline and get another asset for him.

My only fear in this trade is LA falling in love with the star power of Lin (Asian fanbase) and him putting up good numbers on a mediocre team and thus paying him longterm dollars, sort of like what we did with Young. I don't think Young or Lin are longterm difference makers. We should avoid paying them longterm dollars at all costs, considering we need to preserve capspace for 2 max players to sign to have any shot at a ring in the future. Young and Lin are the type of players you add once you already have the big fish in place. In our case, we need to sign those 2 big fish and until we do, spending longterm capspace dollars on good backup/reserve players will be a mistake IMO.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby lakerfan2 on Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:49 pm

Young not a longterm difference maker? Numbers aside, he is still one of the better players coming off the bench to give you 10+ ppg easily. We got him at a STEAL of a price, over a long term deal that will make LITTLE impact on cap space moving forward. If you're not aware already, the NBA is supposed to sign a new TV deal that is supposed to increase the cap up to $80M+. If we fill this team now with decent role players like Young, Lin, Hill, on small contracts like that, it would significantly increase our chances to sign max contract players because they would be a small percentage of a bigger cap.

You can't have players like Lin and Young AFTER max contracts are in place because why would these type of players come to an empty team? You need to fill the team up with these long term, cap friendly deals with players who want are ready to play.

As for Lin, he's shown to be a consistent player despite what the media has to say. Every day it was either Howard or Harden pointing fingers to someone, Lin the brunt of it, when they are the problems on that team.
Lin is a capable point guard and a smart one to boot. Again, stop with this we got Lin for "star power.' Sure he has an above average fanbase, but that doesn't mean squat. He works his but off to get to where he is, don't you take that away from him because you think otherwise.

And would tanking do? What would a max player think about joining a team tanking? Yeah, that's going to happen. Get that out of your head, the Lakers are NOT a tanking team. Say we do tank, and lottery somehow screws us out and we end up with a 6th pick. Congrats, you just gave the Suns the 6th and you tanked for absolutely nothing.
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby Center Court on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:40 pm

wolfpaclaker wrote:I agree with SGH's assessment on Lin, Lin is a good backup but not worth 15 M. And he'll go to the highest bidder in a year.

However, I do think the Lin trade was a win for us and good move from the FO. There were two things I liked for us this offseason. One was keeping the draft pick, and drafting Randle. Two, was making the Lin trade. I don't see Lin worth keeping longer than this season. If he stays for cheap, great. If he wants more than MLE money, or long years at 7 M per, I'm not interested at all. Let him walk. But the deal is still good for us. We basically netted a 1st rounder back.

If I had my way, we'd tank this year, and we wind up with another top 5 draft pick along with Houston's pick (likely in the 20s). That + Randle, gives us 3 pieces for the longterm. We can keep these pieces, we can trade them. Doesn't matter which. But they are very good assets to have.

8.3 M in capspace and 15 M in salary for a 1st round pick? It's not a great move, but still a move we had to make. There's also a small chance we may deal Lin before deadline and get another asset for him.

My only fear in this trade is LA falling in love with the star power of Lin (Asian fanbase) and him putting up good numbers on a mediocre team and thus paying him longterm dollars, sort of like what we did with Young. I don't think Young or Lin are longterm difference makers. We should avoid paying them longterm dollars at all costs, considering we need to preserve capspace for 2 max players to sign to have any shot at a ring in the future. Young and Lin are the type of players you add once you already have the big fish in place. In our case, we need to sign those 2 big fish and until we do, spending longterm capspace dollars on good backup/reserve players will be a mistake IMO.


Huh?

two guys who can give you 15-20 a night and teammates seem to love to play with are difference makers.. particularly when we need something to help recruit free agents in the future. No they are not all stars (well Lin might end up one) but they are exciting to watch and will have big roles this year
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Re: Byron Scott Discussion: Hired as Head Coach - 4yrs / 17m

Postby wolfpaclaker on Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:16 pm

Difference makers are guys who help teams go from lottery to playoffs, not guys who put stats on a bad team. If you look at the Clippers, they have Jamal Crawford, who is probably better than Young, but he wouldn't be the core of that team, it would be Griffen/Paul, and after that DeAndre even. The main investments on that Clippers team are Paul, Griffen and DeAndre. Lakers would need to invest in players who can first put them in position to have a core that's good enough to be in the playoffs, then worry about the utility/bench guys. I'm not against having guys like Lin/Young on the team, but say you give Lin his 7 M and Young already got 5 M, you invested 12 M combined that could have gone to a Center, a number 1 option and a number 2 option. How much do you think it will cost the Lakers to get a #1, 2 and Center? A Center that's any good will cost 15 M. A #1 and #2 all-star caliber player will cost anywhere between 15-20 M. So Lakers need to keep their salary cap pretty wide open, IMO.

I'd have a completely different opinion on paying guys like Young/Lin if they had the core in place or most of the needed pieces of the puzzle.

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