Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby therealdeal on Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:52 pm

trodgers wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
trodgers wrote:TRD: I don't see why anyone would simply accept a claim like that without any evidence to bolster it. (And it's still not teased apart from confounds - like playing on a team without the best defensive player because he's out due to injury and being on a team of chuckers.) Metta gave us two awesome defensive seasons. And perhaps a bit more when he wasn't injured.

What did I say? :man10:

:man10: TRD/Revgen...same person? :man1:

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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby revgen on Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:46 pm

trodgers wrote:Revgen: We might well agree on that final point - and maybe that's the source of disagreement about what we should do now. Given that we can't do better with D'Antoni, I'm imagining our best moves with D'Antoni. You're imagining our best moves without D'Antoni. I get that.

My fear is that people (I don't think this is you, Revgen) who don't think we need "better offense" are thinking about building a team that will put up flashy numbers in the regular season. Our current team will struggle to stay above .500 and will get smashed in the playoffs. A team with Kobe and Melo might well struggle during the regular season (but I can't imagine them being worse than what we have), but that team will have two superstars - and that's something it's hard to compete with in the playoffs.


Having two ISO-centric superstars is fine if the rest of the team is full of rebounders, hustlers, decent floorspacers and defensive-minded players with a coach who emphasizes defense. Preferably vets. It worked with the 3-peat squad. Worked in Miami. That's not going to happen under D'Antoni, which is a problem that can't be fixed unless he goes.

If we had a superstar PG (CP3) and Kobe, then it may work under D'Antoni. But IMO that ship has sailed.

If anybody has a plan/idea to bring in a superstar PG that's realistically feasable, I'm all ears.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby thkthebest on Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:28 pm

I just want to know. Is our goal to be good or to be a championship team? If it's to be a championship team, can you imagine Melo as the #1 option leading a championship team? I mean, Melo is a good player, but look at the history of the NBA. Actually, just look at the past 20 champions.

Kobe, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, LeBron, Dirk, Hakeem, etc. Melo is nowhere near as good as any of them. I won't go as far as to say it's impossible to win with Melo as the #1 option since there will always be those "random" champions, but I find it really, really hard to imagine any scenario that has Melo leading a championship team. It's just... I just can't process that. :man10:

Then, there's another situation. Let's say we sign Melo, who eventually becomes our #2 option. I'm guessing that some people see this as one of our ideal situations, but I don't see that as an ideal situation either. For a #2, you want a player like Pau, Pippen, KG, etc. Lets take a look at 2010 KG. Current Melo is better than 2010 KG as the #1 option. Melo can create his shot any time he wants. He can score in almost any situation, even if it's not always the most efficient shot, but as a #2 player, I'd say KG is infinitely better because his abilities shine while Melo's talents are limited. KG doesn't need the ball to be effective. He can bring bigs out of the paint because he can space the floor as a big. He's always setting great (illegal) screens, and he's a great passer. I don't mean a great passer in the sense that he creates shot for others (he can do that too), but he simply doesn't stop the ball. Occasionally, he can also make plays with the ball. He plays great defense. And, despite his douchebaggery ways, he's also a leader. Melo provides none of that. Seriously, his only positive attribute is scoring the ball, and if that's not happening, he's not impacting the team positively.

I just can't see Melo as the #1 or #2 option on a championship team. He can lead some really good ones but probably not a champion.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby therealdeal on Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:12 am

I disagree. Carmelo Anthony doesn't have to be Kevin Garnett, he has to be some approximation of Paul Pierce. A scorer that also rebounds and can occasionally dish/defend if and when necessary. The Garnett comparison is just the wrong Celtic. People said the same thing about Pierce when he was alone in Boston: is this dude really a Champion?

Kobe is the leader, fine. But that doesn't mean Carmelo doesn't score and isn't involved in the offense. A two headed post attack of Carmelo and Kobe sounds awesome to me. They're two of the best wing-ish post players in the game. As Kobe comes into this part of his career he's going to pass more and you saw it last night. That doesn't mean he won't occasionally score a lot, but that means there's more to go around. If we had Carmelo right now instead of Pau we'd be a playoff team. Easily.

As for if we're trying to be good or winning a Championship... I think one comes before the other. Right now we're just trying to be good. Once we're there we can start THINKING about a Championship. Now the question becomes: does Carmelo make us good? That answer must be obvious.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby thkthebest on Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:10 am

PP is a better and more willing passer than Carmelo. He's a good defender in his own right, and he's just a smarter player in general. I believe there was a game last year where Carmelo had a grand total of 6 passes. Not assists. Passes. Let that sink for a moment. Carmelo has subpar defense. A lot of times, he's lazy. He can give good effort, but even when he does, it's usually only a good initial effort..in spurts. Once the ball is out of the player's hands (the one he's guarding), he becomes lackadaisical again. He's caught ball-watching a lot.

But I've been wrong before. Even if Melo becomes our PP-like player, Celtics only won one championship...with a pre-injury Kevin Garnett, one of the greatest PF of all-time, and Ray Allen, one of the greatest shooters of all-time. Their big 3 had a complementary set of skill sets. KG could post up, pick and pop, pick and roll, etc. Ray Allen, one of the greatest shooters of all-time, can move without the ball and run off screens for days. Pierce was their primary iso player and ballhandler. They had a deep bench with Posey, Tony Allen, Powe, Davis, etc.

If we get Carmelo, we'd have no money to get anything like that. We'd have overlapping talents that will be marginalized between him and Kobe (one of the reasons why Wade and LeBron struggled their first year). Except anything Melo can do, Kobe can do better. Well, he used to do better. The jury's still out on how he'll be after the achilles injury.

And Pau sucks. Of course replacing Pau with Carmelo would get us to the playoffs. Lol. Replacing Pau with Kris Humphries would make us a better team.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby therealdeal on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:00 pm

thkthebest wrote:P is a better and more willing passer than Carmelo. He's a good defender in his own right, and he's just a smarter player in general. I believe there was a game last year where Carmelo had a grand total of 6 passes. Not assists. Passes. Let that sink for a moment. Carmelo has subpar defense. A lot of times, he's lazy. He can give good effort, but even when he does, it's usually only a good initial effort..in spurts. Once the ball is out of the player's hands (the one he's guarding), he becomes lackadaisical again. He's caught ball-watching a lot.

Well somewhere I wrote that Pierce is the better passer, but Carmelo is the better rebounder. That's true to me. Carmelo is also the more explosive scorer. I picked Pierce because it's a closer approximation to me than Garnett was in your example and because their two games will age gracefully. I don't think Carmelo is Paul Pierce, just that there's a little bit of a mold there to follow. Defensively Pierce is almost exactly the same way as Carmelo is. Initial effort, then lackadaisical effort from there.

thkthebest wrote:If we get Carmelo, we'd have no money to get anything like that. We'd have overlapping talents that will be marginalized between him and Kobe (one of the reasons why Wade and LeBron struggled their first year). Except anything Melo can do, Kobe can do better. Well, he used to do better. The jury's still out on how he'll be after the achilles injury.

Carmelo costs 21 million, Kobe 24. Add about 4 million if Nash is forced into the three year stretch and we keep Sacre. That's only 45 million. There's 13 million or so left to spend before the cap. We have plenty of room to get more pieces if there's someone(s) out there who we think makes us contenders. Marginalizing them? Sure. But you get that with any great pairing. LeBron marginalizes Wade. Shaq marginalized Kobe. Magic marginalized Kareem. etc. etc. etc.

If you can pair two great players of the generation together you do it and you live with the consequences. Wade and LeBron might have stepped on each other's toes, but they got to the Finals. A hell of a lot better than what we're looking at now.
thkthebest wrote:And Pau sucks. Of course replacing Pau with Carmelo would get us to the playoffs. Lol. Replacing Pau with Kris Humphries would make us a better team.

True, but that's my point! We'd basically just be swapping Pau for Carmelo next season for a few million dollars more. Doesn't that make us a much better team?
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby Balance&Options24 on Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:49 am

While free agency is a long way away and there is lots of basketball left to be played, the team that most fans and media peg as Anthony’s likely destination is the LA Lakers, however insiders around the Knicks and Carmelo peg the LA Clippers as more likely to land Anthony if he leaves the Knicks. Openly suggesting the Knicks and Clippers would try and consummate a trade at the trade deadline to insure LA has the rights to Anthony. HoopsWorld - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.OQ7UN8Q9.dpuf
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby revgen on Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:03 pm

Interesting. Melo is currently making $21.3 mil this season. The highest paid player on the Clipper roster is CP3 at $18.6 mil. Behind him is Griffin, who is making 16.4 mil. The rest of the players are making 11 mil or less.

The Clippers are the 4th seed in the west, and currently on a 5 game winning streak. Why would they shake up a roster that's performing so well? Even they could, they'd have to give up Deandre + enough role players to make up the $21.3 mil. That's a lot to give up to bring Melo onboard.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby Barnstable on Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:14 pm

revgen wrote:Interesting. Melo is currently making $21.3 mil this season. The highest paid player on the Clipper roster is CP3 at $18.6 mil. Behind him is Griffin, who is making 16.4 mil. The rest of the players are making 11 mil or less.

The Clippers are the 4th seed in the west, and currently on a 5 game winning streak. Why would they shake up a roster that's performing so well? Even they could, they'd have to give up Deandre + enough role players to make up the $21.3 mil. That's a lot to give up to bring Melo onboard.


They're not. This sounds bogus to me.

No reason for the clippers to pull the trigger on this deal.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby therealdeal on Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:02 pm

Yep. That's bull crap unless they plan to move Griffin.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:40 pm

I read that about a week ago and it was centered around a Griffin/Melo swap.

I don't see it happening. That cheap a** owner that shall not be named loves Griffin and his growing image that brings in the money.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby trodgers on Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:51 pm

Griffin at his salary is almost a guaranteed "no championship" for whatever team he's on.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby Damian Necronamous on Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:34 pm

Screw Carmelo - he isn't coming.

With Kobe's fat contract, we're better served drafting Caulie-Stein, re-signing Farmar, Johnson, Henry, Young and Hill, then signing Lowry and Spencer Hawes.

Kyle Lowry...Jordan Farmar
Kobe Bryant...Nick Young
Wesley Johnson...Xavier Henry
Jordan Hill
Spencer Hawes...Willie Cauley-Stein

The next year, you probably have to dump Jordan Hill, but after doing so, you have enough money to add on Kevin Love and surround him with a pretty good supporting cast.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:35 pm

trodgers wrote:Griffin at his salary is almost a guaranteed "no championship" for whatever team he's on.


So he is a perfect match for Melo in a trade.......
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:40 pm

My guess is that the only way Melo leaves NYC is by trade. He doesn't strike me as a guy that would give up a penny to chase a title. That's why I don't think he will be FA target for us..... If he's coming here it will be in a deal for Pau along with a max extention.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:52 pm

Best "news" was rumors say Lakers aren't willing to offer Melo a max contract ... was in the Kyler article on Hoopsworld... too lazy to link right now
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby revgen on Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:58 pm

Rooscooter wrote:My guess is that the only way Melo leaves NYC is by trade. He doesn't strike me as a guy that would give up a penny to chase a title. That's why I don't think he will be FA target for us..... If he's coming here it will be in a deal for Pau along with a max extention.


Which is probably why the Knicks front office is spreading these rumors. They probably had some discussions with the Lakers FO, but Mitch and co won't give them what they want.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:36 pm

As the other poster noted, I agree that Melo only leaves if he's traded. He'll be shopped heavily in or around as the trade deadline approaches. The Knicks are getting worse by the day; if he can jump ship to a competitive team in a big market, keep his birdrights, I think he'll take that in a heartbeat.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby LakersN4 on Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:57 pm

Knicks floating these pipe dreams of Rondo forcing his way there to try to prevent Melo from forcing his way out.. I'm sure the Knicks know he's gone & they're trying to dump Amare on us but Mitch won't go for that, especially with the leverage of signing him in the offseason.. Wouldn't be surprised to see something like Pau + Wes for Melo go down at the deadline.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:40 pm

Does anyone know if we were able to sign Greg Monroe to about 12 million per this offseason and X man and Farmar to 3 million per season for a few years, if those 4 guys (counting Kobe) would leave us enough room to sign Kevin Love in 2015 with cap holds, etc? I feel like a front line of Love and Monroe with Farmar and X man off the bench would be an excellent start.

I bring this up because I would much rather suck for another season even though we don't have a draft pick if I have to choose between Love and Melo.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby Pig Miller on Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:55 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:Does anyone know if we were able to sign Greg Monroe to about 12 million per this offseason and X man and Farmar to 3 million per season for a few years, if those 4 guys (counting Kobe) would leave us enough room to sign Kevin Love in 2015 with cap holds, etc? I feel like a front line of Love and Monroe with Farmar and X man off the bench would be an excellent start.

I bring this up because I would much rather suck for another season even though we don't have a draft pick if I have to choose between Love and Melo.
Savory Griddles wrote:Does anyone know if we were able to sign Greg Monroe to about 12 million per this offseason and X man and Farmar to 3 million per season for a few years, if those 4 guys (counting Kobe) would leave us enough room to sign Kevin Love in 2015 with cap holds, etc? I feel like a front line of Love and Monroe with Farmar and X man off the bench would be an excellent start.

I bring this up because I would much rather suck for another season even though we don't have a draft pick if I have to choose between Love and Melo.


we should be able to, but you're also forgetting the salary of the 1st rounder we'll have this season.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby therealdeal on Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:35 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:Does anyone know if we were able to sign Greg Monroe to about 12 million per this offseason and X man and Farmar to 3 million per season for a few years, if those 4 guys (counting Kobe) would leave us enough room to sign Kevin Love in 2015 with cap holds, etc? I feel like a front line of Love and Monroe with Farmar and X man off the bench would be an excellent start.

I bring this up because I would much rather suck for another season even though we don't have a draft pick if I have to choose between Love and Melo.

2014-2015-
Kobe- 23.5
Monroe- 12
Sacre- 1
Nash- 3
Farmar- 2
Henry- 2
Total: 43.5 (leaving roughly 14.5 million)

2015-2016-
Kobe- 25
Monroe- 14
Sacre- 1
Farmar- 3
Henry- 3
Total- 46 (leaving roughly 12-13 million)

The amount that Love would make is 17.4 million. That's where it would start at I believe meaning no. We couldn't offer Love a max contract (he'll get max money) with your plan.

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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby Savory Griddles on Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:12 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:Does anyone know if we were able to sign Greg Monroe to about 12 million per this offseason and X man and Farmar to 3 million per season for a few years, if those 4 guys (counting Kobe) would leave us enough room to sign Kevin Love in 2015 with cap holds, etc? I feel like a front line of Love and Monroe with Farmar and X man off the bench would be an excellent start.

I bring this up because I would much rather suck for another season even though we don't have a draft pick if I have to choose between Love and Melo.

2014-2015-
Kobe- 23.5
Monroe- 12
Sacre- 1
Nash- 3
Farmar- 2
Henry- 2
Total: 43.5 (leaving roughly 14.5 million)

2015-2016-
Kobe- 25
Monroe- 14
Sacre- 1
Farmar- 3
Henry- 3
Total- 46 (leaving roughly 12-13 million)

The amount that Love would make is 17.4 million. That's where it would start at I believe meaning no. We couldn't offer Love a max contract (he'll get max money) with your plan.

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That's what I was afraid of. Love is my main target. He is a top 5 player in the league IMO. God, that freaking Kobe deal KILLED us.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby therealdeal on Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:24 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:That's what I was afraid of. Love is my main target. He is a top 5 player in the league IMO. God, that freaking Kobe deal KILLED us.

Not really. We can do something similar next season to what we did this season, save our money for Love, then Kobe expires in time for Durant in 2016. That's probably the plan or something close to it.
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Re: Carmelo Anthony: May Join Lakers to Play with Kob

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:26 pm

Whoa there Savory... Love can't stay healthy for any length of time and has proven nothing from a leadership point of view. Top 5 is a little high IMO.
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