Chris Paul Doesn’t Fear Lakers

XXIV · by **XXIV** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:06 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
XXIV wrote:Like I mentioned in another thread, in the short term Nash + Pau + Kobe + Dwight > CP3 + Kobe + Dwight

I disagree. CP3 is the best PG in the game and simply one of the best ever. Really, i can't think of another PG who i would take outside of Magic if i had to start a team. He can do it all. Put him on ANY team and they are playoff contenders. Some of you Laker fans don't know how good he really is. The guy is just so good.

Nash is still playing at a high level but he ain't on CP3's level right now.

Sure CP3 might be the better player, but he's not by a lot. Current Nash is a better shooter and just as good a facilitator if not better than Paul, add to that Pau Gasol and it really shouldn't be a question as to why I'd rather take the duo over CP3 alone.

Lets Go Lakers · by **Lets Go Lakers** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:09 pm

I love the Clippers along with the Lakers as i'm a LA resident for over 30 years but there is no way the Clippers are winning it all this year. The stars would have to align for that to happen. That means Blake develops an overall game reminiscent of Malone. DJ plays with a brain instead of always being out of position and learns to box out instead of just reaching for balls.

It's just not happening. They are sorely lacking in bigs. DJ is one of the most overrated big men in the game. All the raw tools but no basketball IQ. This team made some bad offseason choices last year. They needed a solid 3 to back up Butler and more bigs but they got another guard on a team heavy with guards.

JGC · by **JGC** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:16 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
XXIV wrote:Like I mentioned in another thread, in the short term Nash + Pau + Kobe + Dwight > CP3 + Kobe + Dwight

I disagree. CP3 is the best PG in the game and simply one of the best ever. Really, i can't think of another PG who i would take outside of Magic if i had to start a team. He can do it all. Put him on ANY team and they are playoff contenders. Some of you Laker fans don't know how good he really is. The guy is just so good.

Nash is still playing at a high level but he ain't on CP3's level right now.

You're right. CP3 overall, right now, is better than Nash. So what. No one is arguing otherwise.

What people are saying is that Nash and Pau is better than just CP3. Which, is true.

Doc Brown · by **Doc Brown** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote: DJ plays with a brain instead of always being out of position and learns to box out instead of just reaching for balls.

Reggie is on the Nets now....... :man1:

Lets Go Lakers · by **Lets Go Lakers** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:19 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:
XXIV wrote:Like I mentioned in another thread, in the short term Nash + Pau + Kobe + Dwight > CP3 + Kobe + Dwight

I disagree. CP3 is the best PG in the game and simply one of the best ever. Really, i can't think of another PG who i would take outside of Magic if i had to start a team. He can do it all. Put him on ANY team and they are playoff contenders. Some of you Laker fans don't know how good he really is. The guy is just so good.

Nash is still playing at a high level but he ain't on CP3's level right now.

Peculiar wording there. I assume you mean "Some of you other Laker fans don't know how good he really is".

Either way, I think you're wrong. I think we all know and understand how good of a player he is. He's a terrific basketball player, there's a reason Mitch was willing to give up the kitchen sink to get him. He's got fantastic vision, he's a great shooter, and he's got the same winners mentality that Kobe Bryant has.

However, he's also somewhat injury prone. He flops around the court, getting cheap calls and whines to the refs about it when he's the type of player who's greatness surpasses that kind of behavior. If he were an average player and that was a tool he used to stay relevant it'd almost bother me less. But he's an other worldly talent who uses it and it's absolutely ridiculous.

And besides all of that, Nash is one of the best PGs to ever play the game and even at his advanced age he remains relevant and capable of carrying a team laden with stars to the next level. He, along with Gasol, will provide more for the team than just Paul would alone. Even given how great Paul is.

I'm sorry but right now, CP3 is a level above Nash. And that's not a knock on Nash, he's 38 freaken years old. It's just a credit to CP3. He has no weakness in his game. He does everything you want from your PG to the highest level. And i don't have the stats but i bet you during his time in the NBA, he is by far the league leaguer in turnover/assist ratio. The guy almost never turns the ball over. It's almost a shock when he does becuase he's so much in commmand of his dribble and awareness of the defense. Nash has a much worse turnover/assist ratio because he gambles more and takes more risks.

Nash is a better shooter but not by that much. Paul can shoot both the 3 and FTs. He can also defend. He is one of the league leaders in steals every year. As a matter of fact, i would guess that during his time in the game, he probably leads the nba in that category. And that's not by just jumping passing lanes or gambling. It's by having good awareness and hands.

He can get to the rack anytime he wants. He can literally decide to take over a game when he thinks the team needs it offensively. I'm sorry but Nash can't do that right now. CP3 did that for many games last year. He's a much better defefender and his impact on the game right now is noticeably bigger than Nash when you look at the overall picture.

Lets Go Lakers · by **Lets Go Lakers** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:23 pm

JGC wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:
XXIV wrote:Like I mentioned in another thread, in the short term Nash + Pau + Kobe + Dwight > CP3 + Kobe + Dwight

I disagree. CP3 is the best PG in the game and simply one of the best ever. Really, i can't think of another PG who i would take outside of Magic if i had to start a team. He can do it all. Put him on ANY team and they are playoff contenders. Some of you Laker fans don't know how good he really is. The guy is just so good.

Nash is still playing at a high level but he ain't on CP3's level right now.

You're right. CP3 overall, right now, is better than Nash. So what. No one is arguing otherwise.

What people are saying is that Nash and Pau is better than just CP3. Which, is true.

Well, i disagree.

I think there is such a thing as too much talent on the floor at the same time. Howard can run the P&R great with Nash. So can Pau but i think given CP3's prime years are in front of him and him having Howard and Kobe would be better than an old Nash, Paul, Howard and Kobe.

Yeah, the pieces do fit great on this current team but i still would take CP3 over Nash/Pau. Both are declining players. CP3 is just entering his prime.

kray28 · by **kray28** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:26 pm

My faith in humanity is completely shaken and perhaps irreparably destroyed since I found out that Chris Paul said that he does not fear the Lakers.

Lets Go Lakers · by **Lets Go Lakers** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:28 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote: DJ plays with a brain instead of always being out of position and learns to box out instead of just reaching for balls.

Reggie is on the Nets now.......

He was a fan favorite for a reason. The guy has no raw talent but hustles every second he's out on the court and boxes the sh*t out of everyone. All DJ does when a shot goes up is look up and react. I swear i've only seen him box out only a handful of times and i saw almost every single Clipper game last year. Actually, i think the art of boxing out in general is lacking in today's game. It's all about athleticism today, just like DJ is proving.

Lakerjones · by **Lakerjones** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:28 pm

kray28 wrote:My faith in humanity is completely shaken and perhaps irreparably destroyed since I found out that Chris Paul said that he does not fear the Lakers.

Nice.

Our team sure as hell doesn't fear him and the Paperclips, either, so I guess we're all even.

XXIV · by **XXIV** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:40 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote: DJ plays with a brain instead of always being out of position and learns to box out instead of just reaching for balls.

Reggie is on the Nets now.......

He was a fan favorite for a reason. The guy has no raw talent but hustles every second he's out on the court and boxes the sh*t out of everyone. All DJ does when a shot goes up is look up and react. I swear i've only seen him box out only a handful of times and i saw almost every single Clipper game last year. Actually, i think the art of boxing out in general is lacking in today's game. It's all about athleticism today, just like DJ is proving.

Same thing goes for Griffin. Often times I've seen him try to jump over people to secure a rebound instead of boxing out. These type of players will be in danger when they begin to lose their athleticism and continue to try and play the same way.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:40 pm

Why are you comparing Nash to Paul? I didn't really compare those two. I said that Paul is a better player and that Nash was the better fit. No need to apologize for having that opinion and I don't think you'll find a ton of people who say Paul isn't better than Nash.

That's not the point. The point is that Nash AND Gasol are better than Paul BY HIMSELF.

(as a sidenote, since Paul has come into the league Nash has averaged 3.03 assists/to and Paul has averaged 4.01 assists/to)

Nash is indeed the better shooter and it's actually by a lot. Nash has only dipped below 50% from the field once since Paul has been in the league, while Paul has topped 50% only once since being in the league. Nash is a career 90% free throw shooter while Paul has never broken 90% from the line. Nash is a career 42% 3 point shooter while Paul has never topped 40% from deep. Nash may be one of the best pure shooters the leauge has ever seen. Paul is not there.

Paul is certainly the better defender, but steals isn't a measure of defense. Ron Artest plays some of the best defense the league has ever seen and he's not necessarily the best thief around. Yes, Paul can take over games, but he's in his prime and he's the better player. No one is denying that.

Your argument is odd and doesn't make much sense. No one is comparing those two as players, they're comparing those two as fits for the team. Nash is the much, much better fit for the team when you take into account price and the other pieces involved. If we had Paul instead of Nash, that's one thing. That's a one-for-one swap. But we're talking about Nash/Gasol vs Paul and that's clearly in our favor.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:44 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Well, i disagree.

I think there is such a thing as too much talent on the floor at the same time. Howard can run the P&R great with Nash. So can Pau but i think given CP3's prime years are in front of him and him having Howard and Kobe would be better than an old Nash, Paul, Howard and Kobe.

Yeah, the pieces do fit great on this current team but i still would take CP3 over Nash/Pau. Both are declining players. CP3 is just entering his prime.

So what? Two Hall of Famers for One. That's basically what you're saying. You're saying you'd give up Nash, who has consistently been one of the best PGs in the game for the last 10 years, robbed Kobe of at least 1 MVP, AND a legitimate 7 footer who can pass, shoot mid-range, work the low block, and play very good post defense for a slight upgrade at the 1?

Ridiculous.

XXIV · by **XXIV** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:54 pm

For comparison here are the stats between CP3 and Nash from this past season:

Nash (Age 37): 31.6 MP, 12.5 PTS, 10.7 AST, 3 RB, 0.6 STL, .390 3P%, .532 FG%

Paul (Age 26): 36.4 MP, 19.8 PTS, 9.1 AST, 3.6 RB, 2.5 STL, .371 3P%, .478 FG%

Add to that Nash costing about half of Paul's salary and the fact that we have Gasol.

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:58 pm

it depends on who the replacement PF would've been had Cp3 trade not been vetoed. IF it was David West as some have rumored then cp3/west/kobe/howard >>>> nash/kobe/pau/howard. But if it was Mcbob all along then we are much better now with this current squad and we would still have room to reload again by 2014.

Lets Go Lakers · by **Lets Go Lakers** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:59 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:Well, i disagree.

I think there is such a thing as too much talent on the floor at the same time. Howard can run the P&R great with Nash. So can Pau but i think given CP3's prime years are in front of him and him having Howard and Kobe would be better than an old Nash, Paul, Howard and Kobe.

Yeah, the pieces do fit great on this current team but i still would take CP3 over Nash/Pau. Both are declining players. CP3 is just entering his prime.

So what? Two Hall of Famers for One. That's basically what you're saying. You're saying you'd give up Nash, who has consistently been one of the best PGs in the game for the last 10 years, robbed Kobe of at least 1 MVP, AND a legitimate 7 footer who can pass, shoot mid-range, work the low block, and play very good post defense for a slight upgrade at the 1?

Ridiculous.

It's not a slight upgrade at the 1. At least not if you look at the overall impact. CP3 is coming into his prime while Nash/Gasol are clearly on the decline. And as i said above, i think there is such a thing as having too much talent on the floor at the same time and at some point, there is only so much better you can get given that there is only 1 ball to go around. To me CP3/Kobe/Howard/(solid 4) is better than our current 4.

It just comes down to opinion. I've seen CP3 up close last year and i honestly think he is the 2nd best PG ever behind Magic. He is the perfect PG. I've seen him win games singlehandedly in the 4th quarter about 10 times last year making bucket after bucket when the offense was just dead. And i'm not talking about him chucking up clunker ala Kobe, i'm talking about high pct shots within the flow of the game. The guy can literally turn it on when he wants too offensively. And you add in everything else he does and he's that good.

And he's actually 4th in NBA history in steals per game and his win shares in 6th in NBA history. So yeah, his efficiency and impact on the game is pretty much unmatched in this era or any era.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:15 pm

I understand you love Paul, that's fine. He's a great player and no one is disputing that. I just think you're dead wrong to think that Paul by himself is better than Nash and Gasol. The idea, honestly to me, is just absolutely 100% wrong.

Nash, who has put up numbers AT LEAST comparable to Paul's at age 36-37, and Gasol, who is one of the game's elite bigs, are a far better fit than just Paul. It's really not that close.

Lets Go Lakers · by **Lets Go Lakers** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:26 pm

therealdeal wrote:I understand you love Paul, that's fine. He's a great player and no one is disputing that. I just think you're dead wrong to think that Paul by himself is better than Nash and Gasol. The idea, honestly to me, is just absolutely 100% wrong.

Nash, who has put up numbers AT LEAST comparable to Paul's at age 36-37, and Gasol, who is one of the game's elite bigs, are a far better fit than just Paul. It's really not that close.

You're putting words into my mouth. There is no such thing as CP3 versus Nash/Gasol. I'm talking about what pieces would make this TEAM better. I feel that a prime CP3 and prime Howard is a deadly combo by itself. The type that can win championships if they just had some solid pieces around them. But you add in Kobe and that's a wrap.

But an aging Nash, aging Gasol and aging Kobe with one prime Howard and i like the former team better. I am looking at peak talent here. Prime CP3 and prime Howard is deadly by itself.

But in the end, it's just all opinions here. Agree to disagree.

XXIV · by **XXIV** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:37 pm

^ Here's what you stated regarding the Nash/Pau vs CP3 debate. You clearly disagreed with my logic that having Nash along with Pau is better than CP3 alone.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
XXIV wrote:Like I mentioned in another thread, in the short term Nash + Pau + Kobe + Dwight > CP3 + Kobe + Dwight

I disagree. CP3 is the best PG in the game and simply one of the best ever. Really, i can't think of another PG who i would take outside of Magic if i had to start a team. He can do it all. Put him on ANY team and they are playoff contenders. Some of you Laker fans don't know how good he really is. The guy is just so good.

Nash is still playing at a high level but he ain't on CP3's level right now.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:00 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I understand you love Paul, that's fine. He's a great player and no one is disputing that. I just think you're dead wrong to think that Paul by himself is better than Nash and Gasol. The idea, honestly to me, is just absolutely 100% wrong.

Nash, who has put up numbers AT LEAST comparable to Paul's at age 36-37, and Gasol, who is one of the game's elite bigs, are a far better fit than just Paul. It's really not that close.

You're putting words into my mouth. There is no such thing as CP3 versus Nash/Gasol. I'm talking about what pieces would make this TEAM better. I feel that a prime CP3 and prime Howard is a deadly combo by itself. The type that can win championships if they just had some solid pieces around them. But you add in Kobe and that's a wrap.

But an aging Nash, aging Gasol and aging Kobe with one prime Howard and i like the former team better. I am looking at peak talent here. Prime CP3 and prime Howard is deadly by itself.

But in the end, it's just all opinions here. Agree to disagree.

No I did not. I have stated my point in every single post I've made and you've responded the same way: with a discussion of Nash vs. Paul which is beside the point for basically everyone else in this thread.

You said:

The type that can win championships if they just had some solid pieces around them. But you add in Kobe and that's a wrap.

And in the same post you say:

But an aging Nash, aging Gasol and aging Kobe with one prime Howard and i like the former team better.

Where does that change? Where does it become "adding Kobe means it's wrap" as opposed to "he's aging"? That doesn't make sense.

We can agree to disagree, though I think you'll find almost everyone disagrees with you.

Center Court · by **Center Court** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:20 pm

therealdeal wrote:
XXIV wrote:
Center Court wrote:He's got an icredible team this year... probably the deepest in the NBA. Not sure why he'd come out and give us all this praise

DJ/Turiaf
Griffin/Odom
Butler/Hill
Billups/Crawford
CP3/Bledsoe

he's got 2 former 6th men in role playing roles and then Bledsoe who a lot of people think can be 6th man soon. If Odom get's back to his Laker ways and Billups can stay healthy, they are a big threat. IMO the key is health for them.

They have a very deep team this year, but a lot of things have to go right in order for them to win a championship. Turiaf is looking old, DJ is useless except for the occasional lob and putback, who knows what type of Odom they'll be getting, can Butler/Hill/CP3 stay healthy, can Griffin take his game to the next level, and how will Billups come back after an injury which tends to demolish the games of even young players. It'll be interesting to see how things play out, but a lot of it will ride on their ability to stay healthy.

Jordan/Turiaf vs. Howard/Hill? Delicious.
Griffin/Odom vs. Gasol/Jamison? Still yummy.
Butler/Hill vs. Artest/Ebanks? Meh. Edge likely goes to Butler/Hill (if healthy of course).
Billups/Crawford vs. Bryant/Meeks? Delcious.
Paul/Bledsoe vs. Nash/Blake. Not so delicious, but edible.

Odd food references aside (I missed lunch), even when fully healthy we have the edge. The chances Paul, Griffin, Billups, Hill, Butler, and Crawford staying healthy for enough of the season to give them the advantage? Slim.

I'm with you guys... no part of me thinks the Clippers have a shot at beating us in a 7 game series. BUt, I do think that they are going to be a very tough out. Probably a 6 game series. But they are vulnerable as you mentioned. Health is going to be KEY and a lot has to go right for them to win a title.

LakersN4 · by **LakersN4** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:55 pm

To me, Nash & Pau for CP3 is very similar to the Bynum and Pau for Dwight trade that we were smart enough not to take.. It's an upgrade from one of the best to the absolute best at their position, but not a big enough upgrade to lose Pau for nothing.. We would be worse in the short term, better long term..Nash's age is the only reason it even gets consideration.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:18 pm

Center Court wrote:I'm with you guys... no part of me thinks the Clippers have a shot at beating us in a 7 game series. BUt, I do think that they are going to be a very tough out. Probably a 6 game series. But they are vulnerable as you mentioned. Health is going to be KEY and a lot has to go right for them to win a title.

The Clippers are certainly a good team, but they're far from a great team. Unless Griffin, Jordan, and Bledsoe make massive strides that team isn't going anywhere.

The reason they'll be a tough team to beat is because of Paul, but with our personnel he'll have to do it basically by himself.

jimbo327 · by **jimbo327** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:46 pm

It's alright. When Nash retires, CP3 can come join the Lakers with D12.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:50 pm

jimbo327 wrote:It's alright. When Nash retires, CP3 can come join the Lakers with D12.

Until he signs a real long term extension, I've been saying the same thing.

Lets Go Lakers · by **Lets Go Lakers** on Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:57 pm

XXIV wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:
Aonex wrote:Anyone think the chances of Paul leaving increased once we got Dwight? Clippers aren't overtaking the Lakers anytime soon, and will continue to live in their shadow.

His contract is up after this year and he's a FA if i'm not mistaken. I bet you if the Clippers don't go as far as the Lakers, he signs with the Lakers. Him and Howard would be scary.

We don't have the means to sign him until the 2014/2015 season.

Maybe i'm missing something but CP3 had 2 yrs left on his contract when he got traded. And in the offseason, he declined to sign an extension which would make him an unrestricted FA after this season. Can anyone confirm?

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