D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby The Laker Link on Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:04 pm

Balance&Options24 wrote:I hopeee we don't try to save face if Dwight leaves, like Doc said scratching and crawling for the 8th seed.


No thanks... trade whoever we can for assets that's not tanking.


Is it called Tanking if we did what we could to keep the pick we're supposed to trade to the Suns or whoever in 2014?

Who do we owe our first rounder to in 2014? Or is it our's? If it's our's already, never mind.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Weezy on Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:14 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
Balance&Options24 wrote:
Mark Heisler ‏@MarkHeisler 1m
There goes Andrew Wiggins: #Lakers won't tank if #D12 walks--and I got that from the Lakers. All the reasons why coming up on @Lakersnation



Unless we magically trade Pau for a great player, gain our full MLE back, get back our Bi-Annual exemption, have a couple good players come for vet. min......


We are going to suck regardless. Scratchin and crawlin for an 8th seed again. No thanks.



This is not pipe (copied from me at end of previous page). It could be the type of year we have without Dwight. But we have to have good luck this year as opposed to 30 year cycle "worst" injury luck of last year. Lot of ifs of course. But it's not like there is NO talent on this roster and we can't improve it this summer if Dwight leaves. You can't hate on glass is half full. What if all the young bigs actually improved their games and were used SMARTLY by the coaching situation they will have in place? (making assumption it's not Dan with full power) (if Phil is involved going forward)


There is nothing wrong with optimism, but look at things realistically for a second. Pau, has shown now for 2 seasons he is not the same player, he's declined and gets injured. Nash, is not the same player, and he's very old and gets injured, had had a bad back for a while now. The rest of the roster we currently have is Blake, Hill, MWP, Meeks, Sacre, and probably Ryan Kelly (We don't know yet if Clark is staying either, or if MWP will be amnestied). That's not what I'd call much talent. All we have to sign more players is one mini-MLE, and the minimum.

Add in the biggest factor, Kobe will be out probably til December at least, and then have to play back into shape from there. We have seen this team without Kobe, it's not pretty, and now we'd be talking no Kobe OR Dwight. So realistically, that is a team that is going nowhere. Also, we don't have a smart coach to use players smartly. I can picture 'Antoni screaming at guys, pulling out his hair in frustration and answering questions about how we suck with self deprecation and lame humor already.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby abeer3 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:29 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:^^^^ that's the worst situation for a team in the NBA : to be average ...


seems to be working for houston. according to everyone here, they're in awesome position! did so with zero high picks. again, i might endorse tanking more if half the league wasn't planning on doing the same thing next year.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Savory Griddles on Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:58 pm

I'm not sure what people define as tanking. To me, tanking is losing on purpose, or not running out your best lineup on a night in, night out basis. If we decide to trade Pau (after losing Dwight) for draft picks and maybe a good young player, that isn't tanking. That's rebuilding. If you have an old, broken house with a bad foundation and rotten wood, how stupid would you be to try and fix it as it stands? You would tear it down and start over with new wood and a fresh foundation because even if you get it looking halfway decent, there will always be problems with it.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:59 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:I'm not sure what people define as tanking. To me, tanking is losing on purpose, or not running out your best lineup on a night in, night out basis. If we decide to trade Pau (after losing Dwight) for draft picks and maybe a good young player, that isn't tanking. That's rebuilding. If you have an old, broken house with a bad foundation and rotten wood, how stupid would you be to try and fix it as it stands? You would tear it down and start over with new wood and a fresh foundation because even if you get it looking halfway decent, there will always be problems with it.

That's what most people are referring to this upcoming season if Dwight walks. I don't think anyone expects them to trot out a lineup that isn't their best, only that their best lineup will purposely not be great.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:01 pm

^'Zactly.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Savory Griddles on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:09 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Savory Griddles wrote:I'm not sure what people define as tanking. To me, tanking is losing on purpose, or not running out your best lineup on a night in, night out basis. If we decide to trade Pau (after losing Dwight) for draft picks and maybe a good young player, that isn't tanking. That's rebuilding. If you have an old, broken house with a bad foundation and rotten wood, how stupid would you be to try and fix it as it stands? You would tear it down and start over with new wood and a fresh foundation because even if you get it looking halfway decent, there will always be problems with it.

That's what most people are referring to this upcoming season if Dwight walks. I don't think anyone expects them to trot out a lineup that isn't their best, only that their best lineup will purposely not be great.

I agree, but is that a bad thing? If Dwight walks, why should we try to run with Gasol, Nash and Kobe? Even if we make the playoffs, that team gets crushed by the Thunder. I mean, why rush Kobe back from a BAD injury just to run him into the ground again to get a team that could be 10 games below .500 back into the playoffs? It's asinine and irresponsible. Kobe would have to come back at a beastmode he hasn't been at since 2005 just to drag the Lakers into the playoffs.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:31 pm

ESPNLA's Ramona Shelbourne:

One THEORY that wont go away is that Rockets option is smoke to throw people off scent Dwight has been ticketed for Dallas all along.


https://twitter.com/ramonashelburne/status/352538451574407168

Would be... :man4: :man4: :man4:
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:33 pm

Woj just dropped this little diddy:

Kobe Bryant challenges Dwight Howard in meeting
ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI
July 3, 2013

When Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant spoke to Dwight Howard on Tuesday, his words to the free-agent center resounded an unmistakable and unflinching message: Let me teach you how to be a champion.

"You need to learn how it's done first, and I can teach you here," Bryant told Howard during the Lakers' presentation, witnesses in the room described to Yahoo! Sports.

Bryant didn't come to Howard's recruitment meeting in Beverly Hills to appease him, but to challenge Howard to stay and embrace the burden of the franchise's culture and embrace Bryant's demanding disposition. Bryant invoked Michael Jordan's hard-driving ways as his blueprint, and how it pushed the Chicago Bulls to six titles.

Bryant, a five-time NBA champion, insisted he wouldn't retreat in pushing Howard every day, that as much as the Lakers needed Howard, Howard needed Bryant and the Lakers, too.

"You have to learn how it's done," Bryant told Howard, witnesses described. "I know how to do it and I've learned from the best – players who have won multiple times over and over."

"Instead of trying to do things your way, just listen and learn and tweak it, so it fits you," Bryant told him.

Howard has retreated to Colorado for a few days, surrounded by representatives, to make a decision on his future. The Lakers are fighting frontrunner Houston, Dallas, Atlanta and Golden State to sign him.

At times in the 2012-13 season, Bryant and Howard clashed over decidedly different day-to-day approaches to the game. Away from the floor, Howard's lighthearted tomfoolery clashed with Bryant's relentlessly serious-minded way. Bryant is rehabilitating a torn Achilles, but is expected to be back early in the Lakers season.

Before the Lakers ever traded for Howard a year ago, each player had reservations about playing together, about how they would blend. As the Lakers struggled, the construction of a relationship was clearly strained, but there were times when they found common ground.

If this was goodbye between them on Tuesday, Bryant had gone out the way he had come into a relationship with Howard: telling him his basketball truths, his beliefs, his way.

"You have to learn how it's done," Bryant told Dwight Howard on the way out of the Lakers, or maybe the way back into them.

Only now, Dwight Howard gets the final word.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kobe-bryant-challenges-dwight-howard-in-meeting-211443923.html
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby unpossibl1 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:35 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:Woj just dropped this little diddy:

Kobe Bryant challenges Dwight Howard in meeting
ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI
July 3, 2013

When Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant spoke to Dwight Howard on Tuesday, his words to the free-agent center resounded an unmistakable and unflinching message: Let me teach you how to be a champion.

"You need to learn how it's done first, and I can teach you here," Bryant told Howard during the Lakers' presentation, witnesses in the room described to Yahoo! Sports.

Bryant didn't come to Howard's recruitment meeting in Beverly Hills to appease him, but to challenge Howard to stay and embrace the burden of the franchise's culture and embrace Bryant's demanding disposition. Bryant invoked Michael Jordan's hard-driving ways as his blueprint, and how it pushed the Chicago Bulls to six titles.

Bryant, a five-time NBA champion, insisted he wouldn't retreat in pushing Howard every day, that as much as the Lakers needed Howard, Howard needed Bryant and the Lakers, too.

"You have to learn how it's done," Bryant told Howard, witnesses described. "I know how to do it and I've learned from the best – players who have won multiple times over and over."

"Instead of trying to do things your way, just listen and learn and tweak it, so it fits you," Bryant told him.

Howard has retreated to Colorado for a few days, surrounded by representatives, to make a decision on his future. The Lakers are fighting frontrunner Houston, Dallas, Atlanta and Golden State to sign him.

At times in the 2012-13 season, Bryant and Howard clashed over decidedly different day-to-day approaches to the game. Away from the floor, Howard's lighthearted tomfoolery clashed with Bryant's relentlessly serious-minded way. Bryant is rehabilitating a torn Achilles, but is expected to be back early in the Lakers season.

Before the Lakers ever traded for Howard a year ago, each player had reservations about playing together, about how they would blend. As the Lakers struggled, the construction of a relationship was clearly strained, but there were times when they found common ground.

If this was goodbye between them on Tuesday, Bryant had gone out the way he had come into a relationship with Howard: telling him his basketball truths, his beliefs, his way.

"You have to learn how it's done," Bryant told Dwight Howard on the way out of the Lakers, or maybe the way back into them.

Only now, Dwight Howard gets the final word.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kobe-bryant-challenges-dwight-howard-in-meeting-211443923.html


Yikes. Dwight won't step up to the challenge, he will be offended that Kobe suggested he still needs to learn. Bye bye Dwight.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:37 pm

None of Woj's article surprises me.

Again, it comes down to how much Dwight is about rising to the challenge laid out before him of guiding the Lakers to a title or if he's more about having fun in a small market with lower expectations in Texas.

I suspect I know the answer, but I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:40 pm

Why would Houston do that? Lol
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:43 pm

Yeah doubtful Dwight has that kind of serious introspection into his own areas of weakness, be it in skills or in mental approach to the game, to take an honest appraisal of himself. Likely got offended if true. But it is true what Bryant said to him.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby pound4pound1 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:45 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:Woj just dropped this little diddy:

Kobe Bryant challenges Dwight Howard in meeting
ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI
July 3, 2013

When Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant spoke to Dwight Howard on Tuesday, his words to the free-agent center resounded an unmistakable and unflinching message: Let me teach you how to be a champion.

"You need to learn how it's done first, and I can teach you here," Bryant told Howard during the Lakers' presentation, witnesses in the room described to Yahoo! Sports.

Bryant didn't come to Howard's recruitment meeting in Beverly Hills to appease him, but to challenge Howard to stay and embrace the burden of the franchise's culture and embrace Bryant's demanding disposition. Bryant invoked Michael Jordan's hard-driving ways as his blueprint, and how it pushed the Chicago Bulls to six titles.

Bryant, a five-time NBA champion, insisted he wouldn't retreat in pushing Howard every day, that as much as the Lakers needed Howard, Howard needed Bryant and the Lakers, too.

"You have to learn how it's done," Bryant told Howard, witnesses described. "I know how to do it and I've learned from the best – players who have won multiple times over and over."

"Instead of trying to do things your way, just listen and learn and tweak it, so it fits you," Bryant told him.

Howard has retreated to Colorado for a few days, surrounded by representatives, to make a decision on his future. The Lakers are fighting frontrunner Houston, Dallas, Atlanta and Golden State to sign him.

At times in the 2012-13 season, Bryant and Howard clashed over decidedly different day-to-day approaches to the game. Away from the floor, Howard's lighthearted tomfoolery clashed with Bryant's relentlessly serious-minded way. Bryant is rehabilitating a torn Achilles, but is expected to be back early in the Lakers season.

Before the Lakers ever traded for Howard a year ago, each player had reservations about playing together, about how they would blend. As the Lakers struggled, the construction of a relationship was clearly strained, but there were times when they found common ground.

If this was goodbye between them on Tuesday, Bryant had gone out the way he had come into a relationship with Howard: telling him his basketball truths, his beliefs, his way.

"You have to learn how it's done," Bryant told Dwight Howard on the way out of the Lakers, or maybe the way back into them.

Only now, Dwight Howard gets the final word.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kobe-bryant-challenges-dwight-howard-in-meeting-211443923.html





nice job, Kobe...challenge the mental midget...he's probably buying a house in Houston already
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:47 pm

One thing I compliment Dwight on: No matter which team he chooses, he has very much endeared himself to that team's fanbase.

Only fanbase that might have previously had a tepid reaction is Lakers fans, but him signing on to come back would mean he values LA and took Kobe's challenge to heart. That would prove a lot to me (& most of us, I'm sure).
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby lakerfan2 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:49 pm

Hey, if Dwight can't handle that pressure, that fire, then go ahead.

I want a player who has the will to compete day in and day out. Put his full potential on the line and take leadership.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:57 pm

Can you imagine if Dwight came to the Lakers to play on the squad that Magic "Buck" Johnson captained, and was as he has always been in his career, not serious enough about the "winning"? :man4: :man4: :man4: Magic would have ripped him a new one every day. Jordan same thing. Bird same thing. Kobe said what needed to be said. Either he gets it and is all in to being worth what the Lakers do for him as a franchise cornerstone player, or he just winds up being a pain in the butt when times get tough again.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby unpossibl1 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:57 pm

Kobe is 100% right, and if someone he respected went to Kobe and said that it would have lit a fire under him and driven him even further to be great. Kobe thrives off of challenges and to him, what he said to Dwight was both a compliment and a motivator to return.

Dwight, though, strikes me as one of the "new generation" of stars. These guys don't want to be challenged, don't want to be pushed, and certainly don't want anyone questioning their greatness. From Dwight's perspective Kobe's comments were probably not well received.

It's just two different generations, two different personalities, and two different work ethics, which completely changes the meaning of Kobe's message.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby revgen on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:58 pm

What Kobe said during that meeting probably wasn't anything he hasn't told Dwight already. Maybe it was a little more in depth, but I doubt that Dwight was surprised by what Kobe told him.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:00 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:None of Woj's article surprises me.

Again, it comes down to how much Dwight is about rising to the challenge laid out before him of guiding the Lakers to a title or if he's more about having fun in a small market with lower expectations in Texas.

I suspect I know the answer, but I hope I'm wrong.

Exactly. This comes as no surprise from Kobe. He's going to be extremely honest and forth coming with you. I don't know if this is exactly what Dwight wants to hear in some of the things Kobe said, but it will surely tell us the truth about Dwight. Is he serious about winning and learning how to do it?

Kobe is just a straight shooter.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:00 pm

Who likes adversity? Probably nobody I would imagine. Kobe Bryant has undergone a tremendous amount of adversity throughout his NBA career and bounced back multiple times. He attacks adversity, and I've never seen anybody player in any professional sport want more then he does. He's a 5-time champion unafraid of the moment and his always 100% mentally ready to go to war. We all know his penchant for suiting up less then 100% percent physically. He's a living legend. I've come to admire him. He holds himself to a high standard, and I commend that.

Dwight has an opportunity here to learn from one of the great players of all-time. He has an opportunity to be a protege to a superstar who is a proven multiple time champion. He has an opportunity to embrace this culture of winning and legends from the past and start a legacy here with the greatest franchise in professional sports, IMO. Dwight has to learn how it's done. He has Kobe offering himself in such a way which is the highest compliment; Kobe wouldn't offer that challenge to anybody if he didn't see greatness in that person.

This is it for Dwight. You can't go back on this decision. We have everything he needs right here to be successful. I pray he wants to stay and start something very special here for his career. It would be in his best interest. The Lakers will continue winning with or without him. I prefer it to be with him...
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:03 pm

Where were you when he was growing up, Dad? :man10: :man12: Still cracks me up you chose that name. Love it.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Weezy on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:03 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:nice job, Kobe...challenge the mental midget...he's probably buying a house in Houston already


I'm not going to blame Kobe if Dwight walks, or for saying what he's quoted as saying here. Do we want Kobe kissing Dwight's a** and lying in order to get him to stay, or do we want Kobe being honest and real about how hard it is to win a title and that he knows what it takes? If I were Dwight I would love the opportunity to learn to be a champion from Kobe, that's like learning from this generation's MJ. Kobe demands hard work, that players give their all and know their roles, I'm glad he was straight up about all that. If Dwight can't handle that he can leave, but it's better it was said, because if it wasn't there would just be clashes between these guys later if Howard wasn't buying into this from day one. If Dwight wants his own team and to take it easy, have fun, do it his way, go to Dallas and play with old Dirk, or Houston and learn how to win from Harden and Parsons. :man11: If he wants to learn how to win from a 5 time champion and is willing to listen, stay here and work hard for it. Kobe doesn't BS and I like that, if he's not up for the challenge he can walk.

I'll also add that I would say Phil challenged Shaq, Phil challenged Kobe, Kobe and Shaq challenged eachother, and this all led to titles. Then later with Pau, we lost in '08 and Pau being soft was a factor. Kobe challenged Pau to step up and toughen up, be the player he knew he could be, and we won more titles. Phil also challenged Kobe to be more balanced in those title teams between scorer and facilitator and IMO he did. So this is Dwight's turn, you want to win, learn from those that know what it takes, don't think you know it all already.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Rooscooter on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:03 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:Yeah doubtful Dwight has that kind of serious introspection into his own areas of weakness, be it in skills or in mental approach to the game, to take an honest appraisal of himself. Likely got offended if true. But it is true what Bryant said to him.


Based on past "challenges" he's had I'd have to agree. To me he seems to be looking for a very good support team that he can hide in while at the same time be seen as the "alpha" of that team. It was that way in Orlando... the year they went to the finals he was a part of that team but not the reason they got there in the same way Kobe or even LeBron were the reason for their championship runs.

I hope the rumor about GS is true. If he leaves it would be nice to get a couple pieces and some picks. Getting another starting caliber big would allow us to off-load Pau as well getting more picks/pieces potentially. No Howard but suddenly a lot more than we had in terms of youth and talent..... at least in terms of numbers and in turn future flexibility.
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Re: D12 Discussion: aaand now we play the waiting game... (1070)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:05 pm

revgen wrote:What Kobe said during that meeting probably wasn't anything he hasn't told Dwight already. Maybe it was a little more in depth, but I doubt that Dwight was surprised by what Kobe told him.

This. and I'm nice it was a nice balance between what Kobe told Dwight privately at the meeting and what Nash and Mitch told him. Because remember reports came out yesterday that Dwight at first met with the whole group and then he met privately with everyone.
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