D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby lAKERfaNaticKID on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:26 pm

Ok lets say we make the playoffs and somehow we end up reaching the conference finals but lose...would we squash all this beef and Howard resign?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:27 pm

khmrP wrote:
GoldenKnight wrote:
Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:But what if we trade Dwight and he plays great on the new team, that'll be like the Chris Paul trade all over again, you know the "What could've been".


if that were to happen then it's just proof he was slacking and didn't want to be here. in which case i don't care how well he plays elsewhere, he can gtfo


No, it's proof that he wasn't healthy this year because he came from back surgery & had no off-season to get into shape & regain his strength.


agree with both points, a lil slacking a lot more injury base with his current play.

^^
There has been an injury excuse for Dwight this season --while legitimate, check out his game logs. He had back surgery so I don't expect him to beast at the level he was in ORL. But how can you explain the drop after the 1st half of January?

He tore his labrum Jan 4 vs Clippers...but managed to put up 31/16/4 vs MIL 10 days later. You're telling me "because of injuries", he somehow got WORSE in the month of January? After the initial injury? If he can get 31/16/4 after back surgery and with a torn labrum, he can do it always.

The injury excuse is an excuse. The dude can assert himself, if he chooses to. That's not professional, stop giving him slack.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:28 pm

He even looked wrong during the All-Star game. I doubt he was disinterested & lacking effort there too. It's just the injury Dwight has never been like this, not even when begged & wanted out of Orlando.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby khmrP on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:30 pm

Chillbongo wrote:
khmrP wrote:
GoldenKnight wrote:
Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:But what if we trade Dwight and he plays great on the new team, that'll be like the Chris Paul trade all over again, you know the "What could've been".


if that were to happen then it's just proof he was slacking and didn't want to be here. in which case i don't care how well he plays elsewhere, he can gtfo


No, it's proof that he wasn't healthy this year because he came from back surgery & had no off-season to get into shape & regain his strength.


agree with both points, a lil slacking a lot more injury base with his current play.

^^
There has been an injury excuse for Dwight this season --while legitimate, check out his game logs. He had back surgery so I don't expect him to beast at the level he was in ORL. But how can you explain the drop after the 1st half of January?

He tore his labrum Jan 4 vs Clippers...but managed to put up 31/16/4 vs MIL 10 days later. You're telling me "because of injuries", he somehow got WORSE in the month of January? After the initial injury? If he can get 31/16/4 after back surgery and with a torn labrum, he can do it always.

The injury excuse is an excuse. The dude can assert himself, if he chooses to. That's not professional, stop giving him slack.


not everyone plays like the Bucks, some of the teams we play actually know how to defend and most of his 31pts against the bucks came by way of Kobe easy setup. His reb hasn't faded much, neither has his blks. Its only scoring and even then this was the beginning of Kobe pass 1st mentaliy, teams know this now and are adjusting. Also you didn't mention when he re-aggrevated it against Pho
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:31 pm

Chillbongo wrote:
khmrP wrote:
GoldenKnight wrote:
Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:But what if we trade Dwight and he plays great on the new team, that'll be like the Chris Paul trade all over again, you know the "What could've been".


if that were to happen then it's just proof he was slacking and didn't want to be here. in which case i don't care how well he plays elsewhere, he can gtfo


No, it's proof that he wasn't healthy this year because he came from back surgery & had no off-season to get into shape & regain his strength.


agree with both points, a lil slacking a lot more injury base with his current play.

^^
There has been an injury excuse for Dwight this season --while legitimate, check out his game logs. He had back surgery so I don't expect him to beast at the level he was in ORL. But how can you explain the drop after the 1st half of January?

He tore his labrum Jan 4 vs Clippers...but managed to put up 31/16/4 vs MIL 10 days later. You're telling me "because of injuries", he somehow got WORSE in the month of January? After the initial injury? If he can get 31/16/4 after back surgery and with a torn labrum, he can do it always.

The injury excuse is an excuse. The dude can assert himself, if he chooses to. That's not professional, stop giving him slack.


This is incorrect on so many levels. He can feel better some days more than others, it's also about match ups, just because he got 31 & 16 doesn't mean he can average that for the rest of the season. A major back injury which required surgery & a torn labrum is an "excuse" ? Give me a break. Now you're just being an irrational frustrated fan.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Jazzygirl205 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:40 pm

So what does the organization do? Trade him and opt for pieces to make a run now, or keep him, let him heal, try to build chemistry and try to go for it next season. But that's the bad part about it all, the older players on our team see time ticking and don't want to wait. On the other hand our organization wants to solidify a team that can be contenders within the next season or so "Right now". There's some risks to take, it also depends on the way he heals and recovers overtime. There's a little panic going on, mixed with a little desperation and anxiety. Or maybe that's just me as fan feeling like that :boxing1:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:42 pm

Well, I'm not calling anyone out so it looks like I'm being pretty rational.

I think it's incorrect for people to make excuses for a professional player. He's had some pretty craptastic games even before the labrum injury. What was it then, the back? I already addressed the injury issue and agreed that it HAS BEEN a huge impediment to his production this season.

But he still put up "Dwight" numbers, injuries withstanding. Can you tell me why that's there only one out of every 5 games? Because he "feels better" every once in a while?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Weezy on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:46 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:He even looked wrong during the All-Star game. I doubt he was disinterested & lacking effort there too. It's just the injury Dwight has never been like this, not even when begged & wanted out of Orlando.


The number of excuses you continue to make for this guy is something I just don't get. What has he done to earn this much benefit of the doubt? He looks ONLY inured out there, not like he's disinterested in playing here or doesn't care or isn't giving full effort at ALL, only injured? Come on nobody can seriously believe that. The guy even said a few days ago that he's not having fun, is that all about injury too?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:48 pm

Chillbongo wrote:Well, I'm not calling anyone out so it looks like I'm being pretty rational.

I think it's incorrect for people to make excuses for a professional player. He's had some pretty craptastic games even before the labrum injury. What was it then, the back? I already addressed the injury issue and agreed that it HAS BEEN a huge impediment to his production this season.

But he still put up "Dwight" numbers, injuries withstanding. Can you tell me why that's there only one out of every 5 games? Because he "feels better" every once in a while?


It's a mental game when you're not yourself physically. Howard is a completely different player post-surgery than he was pre-surgery. He is at about 75% You don't think it affects him mentally that he cannot jump as high, run as fast, score as much as he did before? Some days will be better than others when you consider all the factors than come with the injuries. I don't see how you could see you" well he did it already this season why can't he do it every game" as a logic, it's not that simple.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:55 pm

Weezy wrote:
GoldenKnight wrote:He even looked wrong during the All-Star game. I doubt he was disinterested & lacking effort there too. It's just the injury Dwight has never been like this, not even when begged & wanted out of Orlando.


The number of excuses you continue to make for this guy is something I just don't get. What has he done to earn this much benefit of the doubt? He looks ONLY inured out there, not like he's disinterested in playing here or doesn't care or isn't giving full effort at ALL, only injured? Come on nobody can seriously believe that. The guy even said a few days ago that he's not having fun, is that all about injury too?


Injury is not an excuse, it's a factor, especially multiple injuries. I agree some nights he does lack effort but you along with many other fans completely ignore the injuries. Saying effort is more of a factor than injuries is completely incorrect. Nobody can seriously believe that? Tell me why when Howard wanted out of Orlando he was still getting 20 20s? Why did he still look interested in the game even though he did not want to be there just as you say he doesn't want to be here. He sits out with a torn labrum & fans say "Dwight get over it!" So he plays & you still expect him to play as if it is now completely healed. Oh * he said he is not having fun, big deal, you think Kobe is having fun? You think Nash is having fun? Nobody likes losing. I would be shocked if he WAS having fun in a season like this. Fans find every little thing...
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:58 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:
Weezy wrote:
GoldenKnight wrote:He even looked wrong during the All-Star game. I doubt he was disinterested & lacking effort there too. It's just the injury Dwight has never been like this, not even when begged & wanted out of Orlando.


The number of excuses you continue to make for this guy is something I just don't get. What has he done to earn this much benefit of the doubt? He looks ONLY inured out there, not like he's disinterested in playing here or doesn't care or isn't giving full effort at ALL, only injured? Come on nobody can seriously believe that. The guy even said a few days ago that he's not having fun, is that all about injury too?


Injury is not an excuse, it's a factor, especially multiple injuries. I agree some nights he does lack effort but you along with many other fans completely ignore the injuries. Saying effort is more of a factor than injuries is completely incorrect. Nobody can seriously believe that? Tell me why when Howard wanted out of Orlando he was still getting 20 20s? Why did he still look interested in the game even though he did not want to be there just as you say he doesn't want to be here. He sits out with a torn labrum & fans say "Dwight get over it!" So he plays & you still expect him to play as if it is now completely healed. Oh * he said he is not having fun, big deal, you think Kobe is having fun? You think Nash is having fun? Nobody likes losing. I would be shocked if he WAS having fun in a season like this. Fans find every little thing...


That right there is enough. He's making all that money, and is supposedly a top-3 talent in the NBA and even a large supporter of his concedes he lacks effort at times. COMPLETELY inexcusable. :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby khmrP on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:02 pm

^^^like we haven't gotten that out of Bynum and Pau over the years?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:05 pm

^ Those guys aren't/weren't our franchise players or future franchise players. Bynum was geared to take on that role, but his attitude and potential injuries and the availability of Dwight changed that.

Did you not see that we traded Pau Gasol for Chris Paul?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby khmrP on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:07 pm

Chillbongo wrote:^ Those guys aren't/weren't our franchise players or future franchise players. Bynum was geared to take on that role, but his attitude and potential injuries and the availability of Dwight changed that.

Did you not see that we traded Pau Gasol for Chris Paul?


yea so? is that a reason or "excuse" for some of the ugly stat lines we've gotten from Pau this year?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Weezy on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:09 pm

I didn't say that injury was only an excuse and not a factor, I said YOU only make excuses for the guy. I can't remember a single time you weren't making an excuse for him when he was being discussed. Whether it was about he and Kobe behind friends and media reports being false (which we can all see is false from so many comments from both of them, Dwight not having fun, Kobe not caring if Dwight is here or not), to injury, to whether it not Dwight cares or is giving full effort. It's nothing but excuses for his play and behavior/attitude, nothing ever seems to be his fault or truly negative when it comes to Dwight with you, and that makes no sense as no player is above scrutiny or criticism when they deserve it, not even Kobe.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:10 pm

khmrP wrote:^^^like we haven't gotten that out of Bynum and Pau over the years?


So, what does that mean? It's ok? If the guy next to me steals a lady's purse on the street then it's ok if I do it as well? Not sure I get the logic there.

Also, the Dwight's, Kobe's and all superstars of the world are held to a higher standard. They are looked at as leaders of franchises and with great talent comes great responsibility. If he doesn't like it, he should request a lower salary & smaller role.

I'm tired of Dwight wanting all the nice things about being "the man" and none of the responsibility that comes with being a leader.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby khmrP on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:12 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^like we haven't gotten that out of Bynum and Pau over the years?


So, what does that mean? It's ok? If the guy next to me steals a lady's purse on the street then it's ok if I do it as well? Not sure I get the logic there.

Also, the Dwight's, Kobe's and all superstars of the world are held to a higher standard. They are looked at as leaders of franchises and with great talent comes great responsibility. If he doesn't like it, he should request a lower salary & smaller role.

I'm tired of Dwight wanting all the nice things about being "the man" and none of the responsibility that comes with being a leader.


no its not ok but it HAPPENS to everyone, are gona give up and trade any one who does that?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:15 pm

khmrP wrote:^^^like we haven't gotten that out of Bynum and Pau over the years?


other than the fact that bynum had his injuries, he brought it every night. he was probably our 2nd most consistent player in the 2011-2012 season. outside his antics, that was ALL under Mike Brown, and we all know how that went.

yeah, we may all be laughing with his injury and his hair, but I don't think anyone really questioned his effort on a night-to-night basis, mentality yes.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby S.R.05 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:16 pm

GoldenKnight wrote:
Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:
Jazzygirl205 wrote:But what if we trade Dwight and he plays great on the new team, that'll be like the Chris Paul trade all over again, you know the "What could've been".


if that were to happen then it's just proof he was slacking and didn't want to be here. in which case i don't care how well he plays elsewhere, he can gtfo


No, it's proof that he wasn't healthy this year because he came from back surgery & had no off-season to get into shape & regain his strength.


sorry i should have been more clear, the way in interpreted the question was what if he was traded and for the remainder of THIS SEASON played great. i'm not trying to say the shoulder and back aren't a factor, but i think there's definite signs of lethargy
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby khmrP on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:17 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^like we haven't gotten that out of Bynum and Pau over the years?


other than the fact that bynum had his injuries, he brought it every night. he was probably our 2nd most consistent player in the 2011-2012 season. outside his antics, that was ALL under Mike Brown, and we all know how that went.

yeah, we may all be laughing with his injury and his hair, but I don't think anyone really questioned his effort on a night-to-night basis, mentality yes.


so you're telling me Bynum never had 9/8 type of nights as a Laker and was pretty much invisible?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:19 pm

Weezy wrote:I didn't say that injury was only an excuse and not a factor, I said YOU only make excuses for the guy. I can't remember a single time you weren't making an excuse for him when he was being discussed. Whether it was about he and Kobe behind friends and media reports being false (which we can all see is false from so many comments from both of them, Dwight not having fun, Kobe not caring if Dwight is here or not), to injury, to whether it not Dwight cares or is giving full effort. It's nothing but excuses for his play and behavior/attitude, nothing ever seems to be his fault or truly negative when it comes to Dwight with you, and that makes no sense as no player is above scrutiny or criticism when they deserve it, not even Kobe.


The reason I defend him is because I saw A LOT of Dwight in Orlando with league pass & I know how he plays & what he is capable of. Many Laker fans here mention the injury but in all honesty ignore it's effect on him. Like I said, I agree that he lacks effort on SOME nights but I can give him that pass on his play (not effort) because I definitely know what he can bring when healthy & I know this isn't mostly about effort how you seem to think it is. No player is above criticism like you said that is why I say effort is his weak point some nights but you guys treat Howard like your own personal piñata just like you do with Pau. If Dwight was healthy & playing like crap I would agree with you 100% but seeing as how Dwight played through being in ORL while wanting out I cannot agree with you.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:21 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^like we haven't gotten that out of Bynum and Pau over the years?


other than the fact that bynum had his injuries, he brought it every night. he was probably our 2nd most consistent player in the 2011-2012 season. outside his antics, that was ALL under Mike Brown, and we all know how that went.

yeah, we may all be laughing with his injury and his hair, but I don't think anyone really questioned his effort on a night-to-night basis, mentality yes.


You cannot be serious saying Bynum brought it every night. Absolutely no way.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:22 pm

^ I'm with you in that last sentence.

The only reason I'm not willing to just smash Dwight right now is because I know he's not healthy. And that doesn't just change his physical play, but mentally that's a load to handle. He's handling it poorly sure, but when he heals up, he's going to be much closer to that dominant beast he was in Orlando than what we've seen this season.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:23 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
GoldenKnight wrote:
Weezy wrote:
GoldenKnight wrote:He even looked wrong during the All-Star game. I doubt he was disinterested & lacking effort there too. It's just the injury Dwight has never been like this, not even when begged & wanted out of Orlando.


The number of excuses you continue to make for this guy is something I just don't get. What has he done to earn this much benefit of the doubt? He looks ONLY inured out there, not like he's disinterested in playing here or doesn't care or isn't giving full effort at ALL, only injured? Come on nobody can seriously believe that. The guy even said a few days ago that he's not having fun, is that all about injury too?


Injury is not an excuse, it's a factor, especially multiple injuries. I agree some nights he does lack effort but you along with many other fans completely ignore the injuries. Saying effort is more of a factor than injuries is completely incorrect. Nobody can seriously believe that? Tell me why when Howard wanted out of Orlando he was still getting 20 20s? Why did he still look interested in the game even though he did not want to be there just as you say he doesn't want to be here. He sits out with a torn labrum & fans say "Dwight get over it!" So he plays & you still expect him to play as if it is now completely healed. Oh * he said he is not having fun, big deal, you think Kobe is having fun? You think Nash is having fun? Nobody likes losing. I would be shocked if he WAS having fun in a season like this. Fans find every little thing...


That right there is enough. He's making all that money, and is supposedly a top-3 talent in the NBA and even a large supporter of his concedes he lacks effort at times. COMPLETELY inexcusable. :bang: :bang: :bang:


Your body betraying you physically affects you mentally. Dwight has to learn to deal with that this season so yes some nights will be worse than others. Once he is back to his old self & trusting himself he will bring it every night just how he did for 8 years in ORL.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: mocking Kobe (pg 886)

Postby GoldenKnight on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:23 pm

therealdeal wrote:^ I'm with you in that last sentence.

The only reason I'm not willing to just smash Dwight right now is because I know he's not healthy. And that doesn't just change his physical play, but mentally that's a load to handle. He's handling it poorly sure, but when he heals up, he's going to be much closer to that dominant beast he was in Orlando than what we've seen this season.


This sums it up for me, basically.
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