D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 9:38 am

If the Lakers don't have a plan to rebuilt the team around Howard this summer then he is a goner IMO and Heisler's article did not help one bit in keeping Howard here long-term... that source basically killed any hope for next season which is really juvenile.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Lakerjones on Mon May 06, 2013 9:47 am

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:
therealdeal wrote:What signs?


The fact that the Plan A scenario for the Lakers is to keep the team in tact, and also the fact that you know some unknown team is gonna have a master plan to snatch Howard away from L.A. probably Dallas..... so yeah I'm not very confident he's staying here.....


30 million dollars extra year and 200-250 million dollar Adidas contract all point to Dwight staying. The Lakers being one of the two all time most storied franchises in the NBA and among the top in all of sports are also signs pointing to him staying. He will get what he wants - he will be the franchise player here. There's almost nothing I see that would lead him any place else. Rockets have a nice young group but again, at basically full health this year they still came in under us at the 8th spot and didn't look anything like a contender any time soon. The Lakers is the most premiere destination in the NBA, period. If he walks, well . . . he's an idiot. As in complete knucklehead. It would be like if a musician got the opportunity to play in the best band in the world AND get paid the most money to do so, and got the best endorsements to do so . . . but instead chose to play with a second tier group for less money, less fame, less everything. I guess there are some people who might be so self-destructive that they would do such a thing. But it wouldn't be the smart choice.

Honestly, I think Howard's camp is trying to do something to get the Lakers FO to improve - both in their roster and their coaching choice. And I don't blame him one bit for that. It's fine, and I hope to hell that it works. Look, I don't expect the Lakers FO to come out and say they are going to do this move or that . . . so I guess I get the "we're standing pat" statement if it's a bluff. But it IS concerning. And if you're Howard, now is the time to try and put your foot down and make the FO do something to improve those two things while you are negotiating. That's fair and I'm behind him doing so. D' Antoni needs to go before he gets too settled in and comfortable here. He's awful for our team and to me he's obviously the biggest stumbling block to Howard committing here. He's basically said as much veiled behind various media sources like SAS. The Lakers FO has even gone on the defensive with Mitch saying they don't accept player's opinions about coaching hires.

To me this is all part of negotiating. Nothing more, nothing less. Like Dwighthowardsdad said, I too can't wait until early July when all of this is resolved and we can move on. Until then I don't believe a single word about Howard leaning here or there or anything else.
Last edited by Lakerjones on Mon May 06, 2013 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby JGC on Mon May 06, 2013 9:50 am

^ To be fair, the Lakers have been at times, the premiere destination in the NBA.

It is not always, the premiere destination in the NBA. The short term future is a little cloudy at the moment.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Lakerjones on Mon May 06, 2013 9:57 am

JGC wrote:^ To be fair, the Lakers have been at times, the premiere destination in the NBA.

It is not always, the premiere destination in the NBA. The short term future is a little cloudy at the moment.


Yes, why would anyone want to be in LA on the Lakers when they could be in an armpit like Houston? Our stock has not dropped that quickly, sir.

The future is always cloudy. No one can predict it. But you couldn't ask for more as a player than to be the franchise guy on the Lakers. Unless of course you want less of a spotlight, less money, less fame, less endorsements. I don't think Dwight Howard is exactly a shrinking violet. But who knows, maybe he is . . . if so it is what it is.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby therealdeal on Mon May 06, 2013 10:17 am

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:
therealdeal wrote:What signs?


The signs of the 8th wonderland LOL

Lakerjones already quoted your post, so I can see what you actually wrote.

Why did you edit this? This isn't a legitimate response, it's a flip response to a serious question. Initially you posted your actual thoughts and I would have responded to that.

Instead you look like you're trying to bait responses from me only to laugh about it.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby JGC on Mon May 06, 2013 10:29 am

Lakerjones wrote:
JGC wrote:^ To be fair, the Lakers have been at times, the premiere destination in the NBA.

It is not always, the premiere destination in the NBA. The short term future is a little cloudy at the moment.


Yes, why would anyone want to be in LA on the Lakers when they could be in an armpit like Houston? Our stock has not dropped that quickly, sir.

The future is always cloudy. No one can predict it. But you couldn't ask for more as a player than to be the franchise guy on the Lakers. Unless of course you want less of a spotlight, less money, less fame, less endorsements. I don't think Dwight Howard is exactly a shrinking violet. But who knows, maybe he is . . . if so it is what it is.


Didn't Trevor Ariza reject LA for Houston, when our stock was at its highest in the past decade or so?
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby karacha on Mon May 06, 2013 10:36 am

^

No. He wanted more money. And for the same money, the Lakers choose Metta.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby therealdeal on Mon May 06, 2013 10:37 am

JGC wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:
JGC wrote:^ To be fair, the Lakers have been at times, the premiere destination in the NBA.

It is not always, the premiere destination in the NBA. The short term future is a little cloudy at the moment.


Yes, why would anyone want to be in LA on the Lakers when they could be in an armpit like Houston? Our stock has not dropped that quickly, sir.

The future is always cloudy. No one can predict it. But you couldn't ask for more as a player than to be the franchise guy on the Lakers. Unless of course you want less of a spotlight, less money, less fame, less endorsements. I don't think Dwight Howard is exactly a shrinking violet. But who knows, maybe he is . . . if so it is what it is.


Didn't Trevor Ariza reject LA for Houston, when our stock was at its highest in the past decade or so?

Not even close.

His agent held out for too much money, so the Lakers moved on to Artest. Ariza then left to get a great paycheck that LA wasn't going to give him.

The Lakers rejected Ariza, not the other way around. Everyone knows that.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby charvin on Mon May 06, 2013 10:39 am

Greedy agent wanted to milk the Lakers for the most money possible. We just ended up getting Artest for the same contract terms instead.

JGC wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:
JGC wrote:^ To be fair, the Lakers have been at times, the premiere destination in the NBA.

It is not always, the premiere destination in the NBA. The short term future is a little cloudy at the moment.


Yes, why would anyone want to be in LA on the Lakers when they could be in an armpit like Houston? Our stock has not dropped that quickly, sir.

The future is always cloudy. No one can predict it. But you couldn't ask for more as a player than to be the franchise guy on the Lakers. Unless of course you want less of a spotlight, less money, less fame, less endorsements. I don't think Dwight Howard is exactly a shrinking violet. But who knows, maybe he is . . . if so it is what it is.


Didn't Trevor Ariza reject LA for Houston, when our stock was at its highest in the past decade or so?
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 10:45 am

therealdeal wrote:Lakerjones already quoted your post, so I can see what you actually wrote.

Why did you edit this? This isn't a legitimate response, it's a flip response to a serious question. Initially you posted your actual thoughts and I would have responded to that.

Instead you look like you're trying to bait responses from me only to laugh about it.


Sorry, I just wrote a misinterpretation nothing more.... no baiting... just confusion.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 10:48 am

Lakerjones wrote:Honestly, I think Howard's camp is trying to do something to get the Lakers FO to improve - both in their roster and their coaching choice. And I don't blame him one bit for that. It's fine, and I hope to hell that it works. Look, I don't expect the Lakers FO to come out and say they are going to do this move or that . . . so I guess I get the "we're standing pat" statement if it's a bluff. But it IS concerning. And if you're Howard, now is the time to try and put your foot down and make the FO do something to improve those two things while you are negotiating. That's fair and I'm behind him doing so. D' Antoni needs to go before he gets too settled in and comfortable here. He's awful for our team and to me he's obviously the biggest stumbling block to Howard committing here. He's basically said as much veiled behind various media sources like SAS. The Lakers FO has even gone on the defensive with Mitch saying they don't accept player's opinions about coaching hires.


This is my exact same thoughts, that... Howard is gonna milk this decision as long as possible for the Lakers to Improve the roster and make a roster suited for Howard's inside game.... we don't have enough consistent shooters... So I think.... if this drags out... then the Lakers have to react accordingly.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Doc Brown on Mon May 06, 2013 10:49 am

^^^Spitting come Ice-Fire with that post Cotton. :jam2:
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby therealdeal on Mon May 06, 2013 10:52 am

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Lakerjones already quoted your post, so I can see what you actually wrote.

Why did you edit this? This isn't a legitimate response, it's a flip response to a serious question. Initially you posted your actual thoughts and I would have responded to that.

Instead you look like you're trying to bait responses from me only to laugh about it.


Sorry, I just wrote a misinterpretation nothing more.... no baiting... just confusion.

Okay.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 10:54 am

Doc Brown wrote:^^^Spitting come Ice-Fire with that post Cotton.


????
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Doc Brown on Mon May 06, 2013 10:57 am

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:^^^Spitting come Ice-Fire with that post Cotton.


????


It's a metaphor.

Harness - energy - block - bad. It's like a carousel. Circular.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Chillbongo on Mon May 06, 2013 11:08 am

therealdeal wrote:
JGC wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:
JGC wrote:^ To be fair, the Lakers have been at times, the premiere destination in the NBA.

It is not always, the premiere destination in the NBA. The short term future is a little cloudy at the moment.


Yes, why would anyone want to be in LA on the Lakers when they could be in an armpit like Houston? Our stock has not dropped that quickly, sir.

The future is always cloudy. No one can predict it. But you couldn't ask for more as a player than to be the franchise guy on the Lakers. Unless of course you want less of a spotlight, less money, less fame, less endorsements. I don't think Dwight Howard is exactly a shrinking violet. But who knows, maybe he is . . . if so it is what it is.


Didn't Trevor Ariza reject LA for Houston, when our stock was at its highest in the past decade or so?

Not even close.

His agent held out for too much money, so the Lakers moved on to Artest. Ariza then left to get a great paycheck that LA wasn't going to give him.

The Lakers rejected Ariza, not the other way around. Everyone knows that.


Correct but if I recall correctly, we did offer him the exact same contract as Artest. His agent played pickle and when we realized Artest was available for the exact same money, we decided to go that route.

Theoretically we could have had Ariza on the Lakers on the exact same contract as Artest, but his agent was too busy bluffing and milking.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby therealdeal on Mon May 06, 2013 11:15 am

Chillbongo wrote:Correct but if I recall correctly, we did offer him the exact same contract as Artest. His agent played pickle and when we realized Artest was available for the exact same money, we decided to go that route.

Theoretically we could have had Ariza on the Lakers on the exact same contract as Artest, but his agent was too busy bluffing and milking.

I don't recall if we offered the same exact contract or not, but I wouldn't be surprised. Ariza's agent tried to say that he was as valuable to the team as Odom (8 million dollars) and we didn't bite. He also bluffed and said he had offers like that out there from someone.

So we said, okay see ya. Enjoy those offers and went with Artest, the better player and the better fit. Ariza's agent was clearly bluffing because he signed the exact same contract as Artest... NOT an 8 million dollar one.

Either way the point is that Ariza certainly did not actively decide against coming to LA. His agent tried to play hard ball and lost the game.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Chillbongo on Mon May 06, 2013 11:20 am

Yeah what a douche agent. Hindsight is 20/20, but I'm glad we went with Ron. Ariza was awesome but Ron was clutch in 2010 playoffs....that game winner put-back vs Phoenix in WCF...and Game 7 of the Finals :jam2:

In the long run though, Ariza would have been nice. I think he still would have worked with Kobe and kept his shooting on line.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby therealdeal on Mon May 06, 2013 11:23 am

Chillbongo wrote:Yeah what a douche agent. Hindsight is 20/20, but I'm glad we went with Ron. Ariza was awesome but Ron was clutch in 2010 playoffs....that game winner put-back vs Phoenix in WCF...and Game 7 of the Finals :jam2:

In the long run though, Ariza would have been nice. I think he still would have worked with Kobe and kept his shooting on line.

I mean looking back, I still make that choice all day every day. In 2010 we went up against Boston again and a Pierce that Ariza simply couldn't guard. Artest was able to do more there than Ariza would have and that saved our Finals.

It'd be nice to switch them NOW, but I'll sacrifice 2 terrible seasons from Ron for a Championship over 3-4 good seasons from Ariza and no guarantee.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Mon May 06, 2013 11:51 am

Ariza was just as crucial in the 2009 playoffs as MWP was.... Ariza made clutch steals in the WCF and stepped up huge in the finals.... yes I take Ariza over MWP everyday and any day.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Chillbongo on Mon May 06, 2013 12:10 pm

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:Ariza was just as crucial in the 2009 playoffs as MWP was.... Ariza made clutch steals in the WCF and stepped up huge in the finals.... yes I take Ariza over MWP everyday and any day.

Now you do. Hindsight is 20/20 like I said.

Knowing what happened in 2010 I am glad we chose Artest. Knowing what has transpired over the last two years I would have loved Ariza. We would have only had one. At the end of it all, that 2010 title trumps everything.

We literally won 2 games in the 2 deepest rounds of the playoffs BECAUSE of Artest. He made the most field goals of the Lakers in game 7. He D'd up PP in that entire series, possibly to a level Ariza could not have.

Hindsight is 20/20....I'm not complaining about the banner in Staples
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby JGC on Mon May 06, 2013 12:14 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Chillbongo wrote:Yeah what a douche agent. Hindsight is 20/20, but I'm glad we went with Ron. Ariza was awesome but Ron was clutch in 2010 playoffs....that game winner put-back vs Phoenix in WCF...and Game 7 of the Finals :jam2:

In the long run though, Ariza would have been nice. I think he still would have worked with Kobe and kept his shooting on line.

I mean looking back, I still make that choice all day every day. In 2010 we went up against Boston again and a Pierce that Ariza simply couldn't guard. Artest was able to do more there than Ariza would have and that saved our Finals.

It'd be nice to switch them NOW, but I'll sacrifice 2 terrible seasons from Ron for a Championship over 3-4 good seasons from Ariza and no guarantee.


I would too.

I was simply pointing out the example of Ariza, because he could have been a Laker but the allure of the grandeur of the brand and almightyness of our franchise obviously wasn't enough to get him to stay here for fair market value. He wanted to be overpaid to stay here.

People keep saying that the glorified history of the franchise has this big time appeal to players but it's not like people think it is. It has SOME appeal, but it doesn't really factor in. It's like getting a free case with your camera. It's cool and nice, but you're not gonna buy the camera because of it.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby khmrP on Mon May 06, 2013 12:22 pm

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:Ariza was just as crucial in the 2009 playoffs as MWP was.... Ariza made clutch steals in the WCF and stepped up huge in the finals.... yes I take Ariza over MWP everyday and any day.


Ariza was getting beasted on the block by Melo, it took Kobe to take over before Melo slowed just a bit and the injury he sustained also helped. So NO, Ariza would not have had the same affect defensively as MWP during 2010, he would've lost with him there instead of Peace. MWP has clearly declined but at the same time, this is Ariza 1st season since signing that big contract where's he hasn't shot a horrible % from the field.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby borri on Mon May 06, 2013 12:32 pm

I love Ariza, but...we don't beat BOS without Ron. Period.

One title with Ariza. One with Ron. I am more than okay with that.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby karacha on Mon May 06, 2013 12:57 pm

Ron was a much better choice back then.
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