D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby odom1year on Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:55 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
odom1year wrote:Shaq complained Kobe's shooting.
Bynum complained Kobe's shooting.
Pau complained Kobe's shooting.
And now D12 complained Kobe's shooting.

Kobe, please don't shoot too much. Keep the team alive for playoffs please !


Bynum won 2 championships with Kobe
Shaq won 2 championships with Kobe
Pau won 2 championships with Kobe


You're right..... there is a pattern......


LMAO... This kid doesn't even watch the games. All he cares about is that its Kobe's fault. What is funny is that Kobe/Shaq both averaged nearly 25 shots a game. As for Kobe/Bynum um Drew only became a force the last 2 years of his time here. As for Kobe/Pau that is all on Pau who choses not to be aggressive. Yes, Kobe is obviously the problem. Thanks to Odom1year for opening our eyes :bow:


All I care about is lakers winning chance. Taking lots of shots with 30 FG% and committing team high turnovers, not his faults ? Saying Pau/D12 not aggressive is a joke. Did you know they complained not getting enough touches through Media ?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby JGC on Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:55 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
JGC wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:You don't think we've been trying to give him better looks?.... the only thing he's able to convert on a consistent basis is a lob right now. His back to the basket game isn't good.... even by his standards. He can't seem to create a shot at all in the paint by himself either.... every time he moves with the ball he loses it one way or another as well.

Not so sure how he could be getting better looks with the team we have.... it isn't as if we have 3 floor spacers and a super quick point guard out there....


Every other team we play against, is able to get a couple of lob plays for their bigs per game. I don't even remember the last time we got a lob play for Dwight.

I do agree with you though, we don't really have the players needed to properly space the floor. And running PnR with Dwight doesn't work because he has no handles and routinely gets stripped.

It's just sad that DeAndre Jordan gets only 4 fewer FGs per game than Dwight Howard.


I know you have an agenda but come on it is obvious you understand the game better than the crap you are spewing right now. Hell I'll bite anyway.

The difference is two things:

1. A lot of Lobs are created off of great picks and off the ball moving.
2. The problem the Lakers have over those teams (and with Mikes system) is they do not move without the ball. Dwight, Like Drew did, only sets up once not mulitple times like Shaq did on the floor. Its a shame that DeAndre moves without the ball so well.

Bonus: Jordon doesn't have the benefit of getting so many foul shots as Dwight. Although when he does it usually is part of an And1 and not 2 free throws like it is for Dwight most of the time.


I'm not sure what your misguided theories about my so-called agenda are... but what do they possibly have to do with my comments?

Anyway, I agree with the rest of your comments. You're right, we don't move well off the ball. Actually, we don't even try.

There's no reason we couldn't do some of these things. It would be a benefit to Dwight, and it would be a benefit to some of the other players as well. I don't want to hear excuses about age. Rip Hamilton was running around all game long. I mean it IS the game of basketball after all.

I don't feel like we've really been doing the BEST job we can, at taking advantage of the league's best center despite some of his clear limitations.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:03 pm

odom1year wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:LMAO... This kid doesn't even watch the games. All he cares about is that its Kobe's fault. What is funny is that Kobe/Shaq both averaged nearly 25 shots a game. As for Kobe/Bynum um Drew only became a force the last 2 years of his time here. As for Kobe/Pau that is all on Pau who choses not to be aggressive. Yes, Kobe is obviously the problem. Thanks to Odom1year for opening our eyes :bow:


All I care about is lakers winning chance. Taking lots of shots with 30 FG% and committing team high turnovers, not his faults ? Saying Pau/D12 not aggressive is a joke. Did you know they complained not getting enough touches through Media ?


LOL... You are funny. You know what I did? Yes, I actually watched the games and know that Kobe turns the ball over more when he is trying to make a pass to a teammate who isn't moving. He's never been a great passer but our guys don't move. You would know that if you could watch the games.... um actually that probably wouldn't help any way. Pau and D12 not aggressive is a joke? Really? WOW, I guess not attacking smaller players is aggressive. I suppose getting outrebounded by guys 2-6 inches shorter than our 7 footers is aggressive. I suppose getting the ball deep on the block only to have it stripped away is aggressive. I suppose getting the ball at the elbow with a one on one but settling for a long duece is aggresive. I suppose not running down the court and setting up early deep position (like Shaq and even Drew) to get the ball and punish the defense is being aggressive. You are so right it is a Joke that I didn't see the aggression. Plus they complained to the media which makes it even more serious cause we know you can't put anything that isn't tru on the internet.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby odom1year on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:03 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
odom1year wrote:
kobe_mamba wrote:odom1year......clearly you have an agenda against Kobe '5 Rings' Bryant.... :bang:


Not sure you care about Lakers winning chance or Kobe's shooting chance. At this point, atleast it proved too much shooting on Kobe was not the way to win. You don't realize we have easy win when Kobe shoots under 20 shots !?


you do realize that is the dumbest statement I have heard today? Since the box scores don't show what happens in the game I'll help you. The Lakers problems aren't offensive they average more than 100 points a game. It is....wait for it... the damn defense. Offensive side of the ball is: Off ball movement, missed open shots and TURNOVERS you know what happens to our center 50% of the time he goes for an offensive move.


I know defense is the biggest problem to this Lakers. Kobe played too much attention in offense which made him playing with less energy in defense. For defense, it's more about attention and spirit. I don't think D12 and Pau getting lost in offense will make them playing any better in defense.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby 432J on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:21 pm

they need to trade dwight NOW so they can get something in return as opposed to waiting until the summer and having him leave for nothing

he flat out sucks. just watch him post up and see how much he lacks the basics and fundamentals. get the ball, 3 dribbles, misses awkward looking hook shot. all his points come off easy putbacks or by getting the ball right under the hoop. he is a FRAUD

he didn't want to be here in the first place, why would he stay with the team sucking so bad? trade him ASAP. he's one part of this huge problem
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Ariza3 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:32 pm

It’s never a good thing when the two best players on a team aren’t on the same page. However, it’s even worse when the team is the Los Angeles Lakers and the players are Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant.

This historic franchise is accustomed to winning, and after an amazing off-season many people expected this roster to set league records. A few months into the season, the Lakers are struggling mightily and they are currently an embarrassing 17-24.The chances of missing the playoffs are beginning to increase and the Lakers are not playing like a cohesive unit.

The chemistry on the court is clearly lacking and Kevin Ding reports that Howard is “mocking” his teammate Kobe Bryant. Bryant is struggling from the field as of late and Howard feels inclined to ridicule the team captain about it.

Despite Kobe Bryant shooting at a career-high level, Howard has mocked Bryant’s shooting stats behind his back when he hasn’t shot well, leaving Lakers teammates feeling awfully uncomfortable.

Something like this is not expected from a team that has championship aspirations and it is quite sad seeing such a division in the Lakers’ locker-room.

There have been reports of an apparent Bryant and Howard feud, but the two knocked down the rumors before they could escalate. However, it seems appears as though the two do have animosity for each other. These reports have some truth behind them and there is definitely a chance that Howard and Bryant no longer see eye-to-eye.

Still, it is still a little shocking to hear a center that shoots 50 percent from the free-throw line with limited offensive moves mock the leading scorer in the NBA.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Pig Miller on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:35 pm

432J wrote:they need to trade dwight NOW so they can get something in return as opposed to waiting until the summer and having him leave for nothing

he flat out sucks. just watch him post up and see how much he lacks the basics and fundamentals. get the ball, 3 dribbles, misses awkward looking hook shot. all his points come off easy putbacks or by getting the ball right under the hoop. he is a FRAUD

he didn't want to be here in the first place, why would he stay with the team sucking so bad? trade him ASAP. he's one part of this huge problem



really, he sucks? he's on the level of a luke walton, a jamal magloire, a d-league player?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby karacha on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:56 pm

He definitely sucks. I suggested trading him to Miami for Joel Anthony in the gameday thread. :jam2:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Pig Miller on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:59 pm

karacha wrote:He definitely sucks. I suggested trading him to Miami for Joel Anthony in the gameday thread. :jam2:


if i were jim buss, i'd take out a $80M loan, go bet it on miami to win the title.

then i'd trade dwight for ray allen and a 2nd round pick.

jim buss can then use the winnings for next year's roster overhaul
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby karacha on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:00 pm

^

Why not? Allen would be a good fit here, we need some shooters. :man9:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby last stand on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:16 pm

It's obvious hirin d'antoni was a mistake. Look at Dwight's stats under mike brown and that was at 60%

Dwight obviously performed better in a slower offense that featured the post. Now we have an offense the features a 40 year old PG and leaves our franchise SG and center out to dry

Would rather have Scott skiles or Avery Johnson right now. Hell I'll take mike brown back. At least he knew the team was old and slowed the game down
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:19 pm

Tom Thibodeau / Noah / NateRob / Jimmy Butler for D12 / Morris
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby last stand on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:21 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Tom Thibodeau / Noah / NateRob / Jimmy Butler for D12 / Morris


Lol not even Tom can make this team work defensively. Positions 1-4 are basically useless defenisvely.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby venky on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:56 pm

I don't think Thibs would have a problem yelling at Kobe to focus on his man. He's known Kobe since Kobe was a teenager. Kobe would definitely respect Thibs, not only because they've known each other for a while, but also because Thibs is a competent coach, something Antoni isn't. Thibs is a fantastic coach and would have a profound impact on the defense imho.

It's a shame he decided to interview for the Chicago job.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby 432J on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:02 pm

Pig Miller wrote:
432J wrote:they need to trade dwight NOW so they can get something in return as opposed to waiting until the summer and having him leave for nothing

he flat out sucks. just watch him post up and see how much he lacks the basics and fundamentals. get the ball, 3 dribbles, misses awkward looking hook shot. all his points come off easy putbacks or by getting the ball right under the hoop. he is a FRAUD

he didn't want to be here in the first place, why would he stay with the team sucking so bad? trade him ASAP. he's one part of this huge problem



really, he sucks? he's on the level of a luke walton, a jamal magloire, a d-league player?

he's sure playing like jamal magloire lately

he has no post game and his fundamentals are severely lacking. i honestly can only think of a few occasions this season where he's actually scored in a way other than free throw, easy putback, or alley oop

it's clear he's going to walk at season's end, they might as well get something in return
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby D.B. Cooper on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:08 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
odom1year wrote:Shaq complained Kobe's shooting.
Bynum complained Kobe's shooting.
Pau complained Kobe's shooting.
And now D12 complained Kobe's shooting.

Kobe, please don't shoot too much. Keep the team alive for playoffs please !


Bynum won 2 championships with Kobe
Shaq won 2 championships with Kobe
Pau won 2 championships with Kobe


You're right..... there is a pattern......

Kobe/Shaq won 3
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Congo Cash on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:22 pm

D12 can't post up, has stone hands, can't shoot FTs, so yeah give him more possessions, real genius... :freak2:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:11 am

The Los Angeles Lakers have consistently turned away trade inquiries in recent weeks for All-Star center Dwight Howard and still believe they have a strong chance of signing him to a new contract when Howard becomes an unrestricted free agent this summer, according to sources close to the situation.

But sources told ESPN.com this week the Lakers might be forced to reconsider that position between now and the Feb. 21 trade deadline because of Howard's growing unhappiness with his role under coach Mike D'Antoni and the potential that raises for Howard leaving them in July without compensation.

Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak, however, said that a trade is not imminent.

"I don't think we're at the point where you say, 'It's time for a trade,' and a trade happens in three to four days. That's just not how this league works," Kupchak said in a phone interview with ESPN.

Howard has not publicly indicated any desire to sign elsewhere when he becomes an unrestricted free agent July 1 and came to Los Angeles determined to succeed with a minimum amount of fuss after the hits he took image-wise during his drawn-out departure from the Orlando Magic. But sources say that Howard, as the Lakers' struggles have mounted, has dropped hints within team circles about his discomfort in D'Antoni's system and that he could consider moving on if things don't improve or change

Howard has, indeed, publicly struggled to mask his frustration in recent days about his role in D'Antoni's offense. After Monday's road loss to the Derrick Rose-less Chicago Bulls, in which he finished with eight points and attempted just five shots, Howard said: "They made it tough. I missed some shots early, didn't get an opportunity to go to work like I wanted to." When pressed further, Howard repeatedly pointed at a stat sheet (showing five shot attempts) and insisted the Lakers needed to "play inside-out."

"There's nothing I can do," Howard told reporters in Chicago. "Just continue to play. Not get frustrated. As hard as it is, I can't get frustrated."

The Lakers, sources say, have been telling interested teams that they don't want to make a major move of any kind between now and the trade deadline given how tumultuous their season has already been. Following the much-heralded offseason acquisitions of Howard and Steve Nash, Mike Brown was fired after just five games and replaced by D'Antoni after the Lakers flirted with bringing back legendary coach Phil Jackson.

In addition to rebuffing the trade interest in Howard, Lakers officials are also reluctant to trade Pau Gasol for players who fit D'Antoni's system better -- despite Gasol's recent demotion to the bench -- because they still have no assurances Howard will stay beyond this season and don't want to risk losing both of their elite big men after trading away Andrew Bynum in the original Howard deal last August. The Lakers' league-high $100 million payroll likewise makes it difficult to seriously consider deals involving Gasol because the Spaniard's $19.3 million salary would almost certainly require them to take back long-term contracts they want to avoid. L.A. has been trying to preserve the considerable payroll flexibility that it's on course to have in summer 2014.

The Lakers knew when they acquired Howard in a four-team deal with Orlando, Philadelphia and Denver that the 27-year-old would not immediately sign a contract extension as part of the trade because the league's new labor agreement makes it more financially advantageous for Howard to wait until July to sign his next deal. But the resulting uncertainty those circumstances bring for the Lakers has only added to the pressure felt throughout the organization as they sit seven games below .500 at the midpoint of the 82-game regular season.

When the Lakers hired D'Antoni, it was with the vision of Howard thriving alongside Nash as Amar'e Stoudemire did in Phoenix, operating as the "roll man" in a pick-and-roll offense driven by Nash as opposed to a traditional back-to-basket center.

None of those visions, however, have come to bear yet. With Nash missing seven weeks with a leg fracture --including D'Antoni's first 16 games in charge -- and Howard still recovering from back surgery last April while also coping with a recent shoulder injury, timing between the two has shown few signs of improvement.


The inability of Howard and Nash to find pick-and-roll harmony has likewise had a ripple effect throughout the roster, with the increasingly under-fire D'Antoni demoting Gasol from the starting lineup Tuesday because he feels Gasol and Howard are both most effective at the center position and haven't learned how yet to play off each other well.

Howard and several other players have soured on D'Antoni's perimeter-oriented offensive system, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard. A few have gone to him about slowing down the tempo and playing inside-out, but so far D'Antoni hasn't been willing to change.

"Without a doubt, we have utmost confidence in Mike as a coach," Kupchak told ESPN. "I think if you spoke to him, his vision on Day 1 was dramatically different than it is today. It's the coach's job to adjust and to make changes. Sometimes a player is just not going to fit. Sometimes a coach has to make changes and compromise in the way he's done things and I think that's what Mike is going through right now is just the process."


"Obviously, this isn't working," Lakers star Kobe Bryant told Yahoo! Sports after the Chicago loss.

"I've tried to go out of my way to get (Howard) the ball. Sometimes I end up looking like an idiot, because I get up in the air, I've got a shot, but I try to find him. But he thinks I'm going to shoot, so his back is turned. I'm trying to think about getting him the ball a lot -- take care of him as much as I possibly can. It takes me out of rhythm a little bit, but I'm fine with that. If that's going to help our team, I'm more than willing to do that.

"I've constantly tried to help him out, tried to talk to him," Bryant continued. "Two o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning. Texting him. Sharing reading materials. Anything to try and help him.

"He's coming off a major surgery in a market where it's just merciless; where there's demands and responsibilities of athletes. It's been tough on him."

The blame in L.A. has been widespread, with both Howard and Gasol facing criticism for not battling through these tough times with the needed resolve. D'Antoni getting second-guessed with rising volume for not tweaking his spread-the-floor system to accommodate his marquee players and Bryant critiquing himself this week for missing too many shots on an 0-2 road trip that has spiraled into six straight losses away from Staples Center and three straight losses overall heading into Thursday's game at Memphis.

Explaining the lineup change that elevated Earl Clark to a starting spot over Gasol, D'Antoni told reporters in Chicago: "We got to go small. That's just the way it is. It's after [Gasol] had a great game (with 25 points on 10-for-15 shooting Sunday in Toronto). It's not him. I talked to him and he understands where we have to go and we got to do it."

For his part, Gasol said he was "not happy about" the switch but added that "right now I'm more worried about us as a team and us struggling."

The Lakers have strongly believed from the start that Howard would stay in Los Angeles for the long term, pointing to the franchise's rich tradition with big men and the fact that they don't make a habit of losing their own marquee free agents. But those assumptions were based on the notion that Howard, once he got a taste of the Lakers' championship culture and all the ancillary benefits that come with playing in Los Angeles, wouldn't want to play anywhere else.

These Lakers, however, are miles away from a championship culture. The Chicago loss, its ninth in January, dropped L.A. to 17-24 and down to 12th place in the Western Conference, four games behind eighth-place Houston for the West's final playoff spot.

In a radio appearance two weeks ago on ESPNLA 710, Lakers executive vice president Jim Buss said he was confident Howard would want to stay in Los Angeles regardless of how this season ended up.

"If we make the playoffs, that means we're playing well and I think we'll go deep in the playoffs and it's a no-brainer that he stays," Buss said in the January 10 radio interview. "I think if it continues to fall apart because of injuries, I'm hoping we can convince him: 'Look, everybody was injured, you weren't 100 percent for the whole year, let's give it another shot next year.' It points to 95 percent that we'll be able to keep him. I can't control what he does, but I can sure make a great argument."

The Lakers, beyond all the perks associated with playing for them, have the advantage of being able to offer Howard more money and years than any other team thanks to the NBA's collective bargaining agreement. But they've gone just 2-4 since Buss' comments, with the negative atmosphere around the team only growing amid all the losing.

Calls for D'Antoni, who received a four-year contract in November when he took the job, to go away from small-ball preferences only figure to get louder in the wake of the fresh concerns voiced by Bryant.

"We need to go back to basics," Bryant told Yahoo! "We need to put guys in positions to do what they do best. We need to strip it down. Steve is best in pick-and-roll. Pau is best in the post. I'm best from the free-throw line extended down. Let's go back to basics.

"We've got to evaluate what's going on. Management is looking at it. The players are looking at it. I'm looking at myself. I'm shooting a low percentage right now, and I've got to look at that. It's on me to make shots, but I'm having to make tough shots, getting the ball 30 feet from the basket and [expletive] like that."

ESPN.com reported earlier this month that there's no shortage of rival executives who believe that the Dallas Mavericks and Atlanta Hawks -- who'll both have the requisite cap space to steal him away -- would get serious consideration from Howard if he decides to explore his options in free agency.

"I have it as Lakers, Dallas or Atlanta for Dwight," one Western Conference GM said recently.

The Brooklyn Nets are believed to still strongly intrigue Howard as a future destination after the Nets' long-running attempts to trade for him last season. But after re-signing Deron Williams and Brook Lopez last summer and taking on more than $300 million in long-term salary commitments, Brooklyn can only acquire Howard via trade now, which would likely require an additional team (or teams) to join in even if the Lakers were amenable.


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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby ZenMaster4President on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:39 am

Ah... the difference in offensive games of Bynum and Dwight...

I know one is not playing... just saying that there were people who claimed that the difference is not that big and the difference on defense more than makes up for it.

I think those people has been proven wrong.

As were those that were pointing at "attitude problems" as part of Bynum's baggage. Well, Dwight has got them in spades as well.

IF Andrew was still playing, we'd be loosing the trade badly. And even with that - the fact that Dwight might bolt and this season may be over... we may still eventually come up as the biggest losers.

Shaq was right. Dwight is no superman.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby kenzo on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:00 am

Isn't letting him walk better for us, than doing a trade? We're not winning ish this or next season anyways.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby last stand on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:00 am

ZenMaster4President wrote:Ah... the difference in offensive games of Bynum and Dwight...

I know one is not playing... just saying that there were people who claimed that the difference is not that big and the difference on defense more than makes up for it.

I think those people has been proven wrong.

As were those that were pointing at "attitude problems" as part of Bynum's baggage. Well, Dwight has got them in spades as well.

IF Andrew was still playing, we'd be loosing the trade badly. And even with that - the fact that Dwight might bolt and this season may be over... we may still eventually come up as the biggest losers.

Shaq was right. Dwight is no superman.


Lol no. Not at all. You'll see next season. Whether he's here or not
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Ludachris on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:29 am

thkthebest wrote:Is everyone forgetting about Dirk? :man3:

Ludachris wrote:In their last championship, it seemed like Duncan was the 2nd or 3rd option. He played well, no doubt, but he wasn't their primary weapon. And they could depend on Parker and Manu much of the time as their first and second options.

I guess my point was, it's been a while since a team won it all and was led by a dominant big man. It's not the norm these days. And though Howard shows flashes of having what it takes, he certainly doesn't have the attitude of the big men that were the team leaders on recent championship teams. Seems risky to build everything around him - which is the complete opposite of what my opinion was just before they signed him. Oh well.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. Jordan dominated the 90s. Bird and Magic domainted the 80s. People weren't going to say that bigs can't lead a championship team. Your big doesn't have to be the #1 option, but you still need an elite frontcourt.

Last year's final was the exception, but they also had arguably the two best players in the league (LeBron and Durant).

Before that, DIrk and Tyson were one of the best frontcourts. Dirk was one of the best offensive bigs in the league and Tyson was one of the best defensive bigs in the league. Lakers before them are self-explanatory. Celtics had Garnett. Spurs had Duncan.

I'm not trying to argue that you don't need a good big man. I'm suggesting that maybe the traditional thinking that building around a big man like Howard, who will be your number one option and the cornerstone of the franchise, might not be the best option in today's game. While most teams are building around a guard or a forward, giving the team flexibility on the offensive end, we are building around a Center who needs to be fed the ball (or at least feels he needs to be), which tends to limit the offense, especially when the guy can't hit free throws. At least Shaq could muscle through the foul half the time and get the basket counted. Would it be better to target another type of player to build around? Up until recently, I felt strongly that Howard was the right guy to build around.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Ludachris on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:38 am

ZenMaster4President wrote:Ah... the difference in offensive games of Bynum and Dwight...

I know one is not playing... just saying that there were people who claimed that the difference is not that big and the difference on defense more than makes up for it.

I think those people has been proven wrong.

As were those that were pointing at "attitude problems" as part of Bynum's baggage. Well, Dwight has got them in spades as well.

IF Andrew was still playing, we'd be loosing the trade badly. And even with that - the fact that Dwight might bolt and this season may be over... we may still eventually come up as the biggest losers.

Shaq was right. Dwight is no superman.

That's a big assumption. I admit, that at the moment, it seems like an even swap at the moment, all things considered. But Dwight has also not been close to as active as he was before his surgery, which leads me to believe that he's not fully healed. But then again, shouldn't we be comparing these two guys hurt, since they might both be playing hurt for the rest of their careers? Granted, Bynum still had a better post game than Howard and made his free throws, which prevent people from tackling him every time he got the ball, but when he played hurt he wasn't nearly as active as Dwight has been through his recovery period.

In the end, it's not so much which player is better when completely healthy, it's which one provided more valuable to the franchise in the short and long term. Bynum's knees have proven that this trade was wise. Of course, if Howard leaves, we're simply looking at someone else to target to build around, which we likely would have done if Bynum was still here with his knee problems. So all in all, this was the better business move for the team. Though I'd prefer someone like Durant to build around instead.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Weezy on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:02 am

I can't believe we might have to consider trading Dwight because of something the team did to itself, hiring 'Antoni. Yeah, we'd probably still be mediocre under Phil, but I think Dwight would have been more of a focus, an happier because of it, and Phil knows how to get players to work together even if they don't get along, he commands respect, where 'Antoni is scared of his players. Our team might be screwed out of Dwight and going forward with one coaching hire because the owners have personal issues with Phil Jackson, it's a joke.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:19 am

Weezy wrote:I can't believe we might have to consider trading Dwight because of something the team did to itself, hiring 'Antoni. Yeah, we'd probably still be mediocre under Phil, but I think Dwight would have been more of a focus, an happier because of it, and Phil knows how to get players to work together even if they don't get along, he commands respect, where 'Antoni is scared of his players. Our team might be screwed out of Dwight and going forward with one coaching hire because the owners have personal issues with Phil Jackson, it's a joke.


^^ I could not agree more, Weezy.

I said earlier this season that if we lose Dwight this will basically be the dumbest season I've ever seen. And here we are . . . it has now come into the realm of real possibility.

No matter what anyone says about there being no guarantees with Phil or us not being that much better - the bottom line to me is this: Phil is the single BEST coach of all time in dealing with superstar egos and talent. To me, it's the reason he's such unprecedented success. He's the zen master and he can get guys to play as a team. If for no other reason, he should have been hired on that basis alone over a guy like D' Antoni who had such a disastrous turn with the Knicks last season.

The most important aspect of this season should have been winning games (obviously) and keeping Howard here. The D' Antoni hire has been failing miserably at both.

I have little doubt at this point that Howard truly is contemplating leaving. The Lakers FO, and by FO I mean specifically Jerry and Jim Buss need to really think this through. They have always been about the talent over the coaching. If they want to honor that big TV deal they got and continue to put forth a compelling product they need to address the disconnect they have between coaching and personnel. This is on them.

And by the way, Dwight was going crazy when he heard that Phil might return. He was so into it. He didn't say much of anything after D' Antoni was hired. Sort of like Kobe with the Mike Brown hire.
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