Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:50 pm

OK I've drank the Dwight "has-bought-in-and-is-ready to-beast-for-us" koolaid. Actually I feel it's beyond that and it is apparent on the floor and in his demeanor. Actions finally supporting "words". He's actually motivated and inspired at the moment .....with winning, a chance for a ring and re-establishing his dominance. He really IS learning the take no prisoners "winning mentality" from the best in the business, Kobe Bryant. Not to mention Gasol and Nash. Definitely "winners" too. Well hell....MWP has a ring as well. Oh wait.....no he doesn't :bang: needs another one. :man1:

This Dwight really changes the whole equation. Think of who our most key players were then compared to same positions now. Defense with Dwight/Kobe/Metta leading everyone else with their plans and schemes as needed and on offense..... Kobe/Nash game plans for this squad vs Phil and the Tri and defenses of our 2 championship seasons.

Assuming everyone stays reasonably healthy and is reasonably (for our particular key players) "rested" going into the playoffs, helped by Pau lengthening the rotation.

Younger Gasols smoke (or maybe not so badly?) an older and slower, but very motivated current Gasol if he can shoot well, rebound and play somewhat decent D. Excellent still as an offensive presence and distributor.

Younger Kobes >>< an edge (but damn...maybe not by much?) over the way current Kobe is playing

Younger Lamar's an edge >>< Over Jamison and (rested & healthy) Clark....but by how much?

Ariza and 1st year Artest >>< An edge over current Metta World Piece

Derek Fisher ><< an edge to having Steve freaking Nash but missing Fish's toughness and physicality and better-to-a-degree defense

Rest of the 2 short rotations of championship squads >< Pretty even (?) vs this year's Meeks and Blake and (?)

No Bynum and Bynum gutting it out following year <<<<<<<< vs Dwight Howard (see above) hitting playoffs in "beast" mode.

A beasting, getting closer to "Orlando Dwight" Howard seems to me to put us maybe up with those championship squads if we figure out our defense and all around team "precision" cutting down on turnovers. But the other elite teams besides the Lakers are better this year too than our championship years.

Edit....changed title to "as good" meaning "in ballpark with" instead of "better than". What I was really getting at.
Last edited by LTLakerFan on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol better than 08/09...09/10?

Postby Weezy on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:11 pm

I can't say. This Miami team didn't exist then, this Clippers team didn't exist, the Thunder weren't this good yet, but we didn't regularly get beat down by teams like this current nuggets squad then either. I think the chemistry, mix of age and young athletes, everyone having a set role, was better then. Younger Kobe, Pau at his peak, Lamar at his best, Fisher clutch as always, Bynum contributing, Ariza balling (Artest on a mission taking his place in '10), Farmar and Shannon giving us a speedy bench. And then quality end of the bench guys in Powell, Sasha, DJ. Those teams won it all, they could absolutely get rolling they had such good chemistry (fir fun examples of this watch game 5 of the '09 Finals and game 6 of the '10 Finals), it's very hard to say this lineup is better at 34-31. 5 years ago this same roster owns, but they're old now.

Then again, you give Phil Jackson this roster and if they had stayed fully healthy and it might be a different story.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol better than 08/09...09/10?

Postby Chillbongo on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:22 pm

That 08-09 team was something else. This team is day and night away from that championship squad. But I have to say we were a lot younger then....not only with Kobe/Gasol/Fisher/Lamar, but Ariza/Shannon/Farmar/Sasha.

Everyone had a specific role on the team and were content in it. We are still figuring things out this season. I think a lot of our record is due to injuries, but I think an equal amount is due to D'Antoni being unable to truly coach a team beyond x's and o's. I don't believe in his coaching philosophy, even if he has one. Other than "when the ball moves it finds energy", which is basically a basketball fundamental.

That being said, if the players keep coaching themselves or assistants or whatever....We do have a good squad. Dwight and Earl down low, Metta can somewhat hang on the wings, Kobe is still capable of shutting guys down, and Nash...well, we have him on offense.

Meeks/Jamison/Blake/Pau/ is a SOLID bench, and though not defensively as elite as the 08-09 team, can still get stops. I really do wish we had Phil, I think he was the master of lineups and combos in his core 8-9 man rotation.

I'm telling you, even with injuries, Phil would have us at 40 wins right now.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby therealdeal on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:32 pm

Dude those teams won Championships. I am in no way going to give this current squad the edge over that one. Those teams had the perfect balance of veterans and young guys. They made it to Finals 3 times in a row.

This team right now is going to be a 6 seed if they're lucky.

Let me see how this team finishes the season before I give them any credit like that.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:45 pm

therealdeal wrote:Dude those teams won Championships. I am in no way going to give this current squad the edge over that one. Those teams had the perfect balance of veterans and young guys. They made it to Finals 3 times in a row.

This team right now is going to be a 6 seed if they're lucky.

Let me see how this team finishes the season before I give them any credit like that.


Dude? :man10: Easy Real. Of course they did. This is an observational, let's start finally talking about "what can be with the potential of this playoff squad" vs the potential of those playoff squads. If Dwight is in a great place mentally now and is on one of those "upward curves as a Laker performance wise" like the ones Bynum used to get into, I think there is some interest in the conversation about how this year's team fare's against those Lakers teams as far as talent and capability to beat each other hypothetically.

Not talking about a ring here. Not throwing in how effing good the competition is. Was a hobbled Bynum with that second ring winner enough to still get them with the 09/10 roster past this year's team when they peak if we stay healthy? Just possibly the year before with all the youngsters and speed, and no Bynum, maybe this year's squad compete's even better there? Hell I don't know. I like that it may be looking that way.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby Weezy on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:57 pm

LT, those teams could catch fire AND play amazing defense when they needed to to go along with their fantastic chemistry. That's why I give them the edge, those 2 games I cited are perfect examples of that, game 5 '09 they played D, game 6 '10 they put on an offensive clinic when I thought that series was probably over down 3-2 to Boston.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby Juronimo on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:02 pm

Are we comparing a rotation that is barely above 500 to a rotation that won 2 championships and made it to 3 finals?

I think a better comparison would be to the Smush Parker era teams.

Those championship teams had great chemistry, had 2 top 5 players on it (top 10 at worst with Pau and Kobe), had veterans and young players, were ridiculously deep, could play half court and open floor, could D up, and were hungry and desperate to a man. Not only that, we had the greatest coach of all time.

I don't see how you can compare the 2 in all honesty. Go to youtube and watch footage of that team in action. The talent level was off the charts.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:02 pm

For sure. But they were fine running well oiled machines by then. We've just started the "high performance chip" in the modern 2013 Lakers engine tuning and lubrication process. Which wasn't possible until Dwight made his mental adjustments. And Pau as well.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby Weezy on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:11 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:For sure. But they were fine running well oiled machines by then. We've just started the "high performance chip" in the modern 2013 Lakers engine tuning and lubrication process. Which wasn't possible until Dwight made his mental adjustments. And Pau as well.


We're getting better, but we also were down 25 to NO, 15 to Toronto and had to come back to win, and we still keep getting crushed by Denver, OKC, and that other LA team. That '08/'09 team had a problem of losing to crap teams as well, but they could also beat the best ones too, so we're not even close to that level yet.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby lakerfan2 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:21 pm

We were much deeper imo with those other teams.

Farmar, Sasha, Lamar were pretty consistent, night-in night-out guys.

Jamison, Clark, Blake, Meeks are on and off again.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:30 pm

Just thinking that "elite" Howard if it is possible to get more elite than where he is right now, with his finally GREAT attitude, offsets some of all of the above, when we turn into a much finer running machine. Dwight is getting his strength and hops back. Kobe has improved his mental. No Bynum the first year, and a gritty, but hobbled Bynum the second year...... maybe Dwight with this years squad gets us past our other shortcomings in comparison.

That's what this season was all about, right? Until it all turned to bleep and looked like the biggest fail ever. I've been as critical and suspicious of him because of his words and actions as anyone else, until my BS meter has finally settled on neutral and I'm ready to hope for nothing but improvement with only a few setbacks until we finally reach the post season. Maybe by then this squad will appear to at least be "in the conversation".
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby therealdeal on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:34 pm

I'd be down to make these comparisons in a little while, but right now we're just still too raw. I need more from everyone than what we've seen so far.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby Weezy on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:35 pm

The Pau of those teams was so good that he outplayed Dwight in the '09 finals though, and that's a big deal, because Dwight had destroyed Cleveland before that so he wasn't raw or anything still. We were deeper too, not 8 deep, more like 10 deep, and we have nobody like Ariza from '09, that guy was special that season.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:45 pm

YAH, but that Pau would have to do double duty with a strong Dwight (hopefully) this year plus "Back to the Future" Pau as well. He needed to rest like most players not named Kobe. Who even lost his shot frequently in the 4th from being gassed.

Just arguing here for a little glass is half full. Since we have a shiny new awesome weapon. A Dwight Howard who has bought in for whatever personal reasons and now wants to be a Laker, and WANTS to be OLD DWIGHT again. We haven't come close to seeing the peak of this team yet. Unfortunately Dan won't be of any help. I'm sure he's still morose and butt hurt about his precious offense. No contest, Phil kills him. But with Kobe and Nash and Dwight and Pau and Metta all doing the best they can to make up for Dan's not being Phil, maybe it gets us closer. No way Kobe has worked this hard this year to let Dan bleep it up, one of his remaining chances in a closing window.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby The Rock on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:52 pm

08/09 team might be one of the top 5 greatest team's ever. Our bigs ran the floor go figure Lol we had speed, athleticism, shooting, youth, Kobe's miracle clutch shooting. We had poor PG play but we were at least above average in every other position it didnt matter

This 12/13 team has got some ways to go to match that
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby Weezy on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:59 pm

The Rock wrote:08/09 team might be one of the top 5 greatest team's ever.


Whoa whoa whoa now let's not go crazy, I wouldn't even call that team one of the top 5 greatest Laker teams ever, let alone greatest ever period. I think that '10 Lakers team might have beaten the '09 team, they faced tougher competition, not sure the '09 team would have beaten the Celtics either, Artest made a big difference. That teams was great, but they also slacked off and got taken 7 games by a Rockets team they should have swept.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby The Rock on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:04 pm

Weezy wrote:
The Rock wrote:08/09 team might be one of the top 5 greatest team's ever.


Whoa whoa whoa now let's not go crazy, I wouldn't even call that team one of the top 5 greatest Laker teams ever, let alone greatest ever period. I think that '10 Lakers team might have beaten the '09 team, they faced tougher competition, not sure the '09 team would have beaten the Celtics either, Artest made a big difference. That teams was great, but they also slacked off and got taken 7 games by a Rockets team they should have swept.


Ariza in 08/09 made 40/84 3s, the dude made half his 3s! Odom made 18/31 3s over 50%. Our frontcourt guys were spacing the floor like crazy in the 08/09 playoffs and allowed Pau/Kobe to kill it in inside in their favorite spots. There were times during the Utah and Denver series where we were just toying with the other team. Houston and obviously NBA finals was tough but that team was ridiculous with the ease that they scored.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby Weezy on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:16 pm

Like I said, they were great, but top 5 team ever? You forget that 5 teams won titles with Magic, Kareem, and other guys with retired jerseys hanging on the Staples Center wall in the 80's and that Shaq and Kobe won 3 in a row? I'm not sure the 09 Lakers were better than any of those teams and the competition certainly wasn't even close. Utah, Houston, Denver, Orlando? Not the best. The '10 team had overall tougher teams and the 2000-2002 teams had wayyyy tougher competition. Oh and let's not forget the 72 team that won 33 in a row and the championship.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby The Rock on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:43 pm

Weezy wrote:Like I said, they were great, but top 5 team ever? You forget that 5 teams won titles with Magic, Kareem, and other guys with retired jerseys hanging on the Staples Center wall in the 80's and that Shaq and Kobe won 3 in a row? I'm not sure the 09 Lakers were better than any of those teams and the competition certainly wasn't even close. Utah, Houston, Denver, Orlando? Not the best. The '10 team had overall tougher teams and the 2000-2002 teams had wayyyy tougher competition. Oh and let's not forget the 72 team that won 33 in a row and the championship.


How can you say that we beat up Utah, Houston, Denver and turn around and say the 72 team was tougher? There were less teams then, basketball wasn't as advanced with the strategies back then, no euro players. Much tougher to win in today's NBA. 01 team is definitely better, no arguments, a couple of the Kareem/Magic teams are better, I dont think the 2010 team was better than the 2009 team. 2010 showed more grit and toughness but 2009 was an offensive juggernaut.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby karacha on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:55 pm

No. That old team was younger, faster, more athletic and most importantly -- had better chemistry. Sure if we had Nash+Dwight back then -- that would be a different story. But we did not. This year we have Dwight who is recovering from surgery, older Nash, older Kobe... and our main bigs on the old team (Pau+Odom) were able to run against any team, or slow it down and pound them inside. We don't have that luxury right now.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby Weezy on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:58 pm

2010 faced harder teams IMO, and they played better defense overall. A couple of the Magic/Kareem teams were better, come on, the '09 team had 1 sure hall of famer in Kobe, one probable in Pau, how many did the 80s teams have? And I would take the 2000-2002 3 Lakers teams over 09 any day. As for the argument it's harder to win now, that's a totally different subject and I don't want to get too far off topic, but I don't see it that way. Less teams means harder competition, it's not watered down, you see the same teams a lot and they know you better. Now we have like 3 to 5 legit title contenders and a ton of scrub teams. If it's harder to win now how did the Rockets won 22 In a row a few years back, how is Miami up to 19 now? Look at Miami's road to the Finals in the East last season, the competition was a joke compared to the 80's Lakers, 2000's Lakers and even 2010 Lakers.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:10 pm

Yep, and Miami's road this year may be even easier. Miami is the only team by far that's any good in the east. And the Thunder are less than they were last year. No good teams to challenge Miami.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby LTLakerFan on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:59 pm

Well when I started this thread I had no idea Kobe was about to damn near break his ankle. Hard to continue to gell and build on anything in next several weeks with that issue complicating things. :bang:
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:09 pm

While Howard is showing some signs of adjusting and getting motivated more often I've never thought he was our biggest problem. Getting Pau back actually brings back our issues IMO. I hope he comes off the bench in a back-up role to Howard rather than starts.

Our problem is at the two forward positions and on the bench. We have no one other than Kobe who can get a shot for themselves. Bynum had his issues for sure but he could also convert post touches into buckets with the second unit in a way we don't have now. Howard will be a better overall package for us but we miss Bynum's ability to score on the box without having to have someone break the defense all the way down.

While having Pau on the bench puts potential there but it doesn't solve that problem. His decline has left him at about 70% of the player he was in 09. Combine that with his pass first mentality and he isn't the guy to forcefully carry the scoring load when Kobe's resting either. MWP is an adequate role player at this point but nothing more. Nash is a shell of his 2010 days and was never a scorer.

To get back over the top again we need a SF who can take over creating and scoring and take the pressure off of Kobe and diversify the starting lineup to the point where Howard will get the space he needs to work.

I just hope we don't hear out of our front office over the summer that they want to try it again with a "healthy" team. Health has been an issue but we're not a championship team fully healthy IMO so to squander Kobe's final shot hoping that the "Names" can recapture 2006 again would be a tragedy.
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Re: Is Dan's current rotation + Gasol as good as 08/09...09/10?

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:10 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:Well when I started this thread I had no idea Kobe was about to damn near break his ankle. Hard to continue to gell and build on anything in next several weeks with that issue complicating things. :bang:


You never know..... it might shake some of the cobwebs of the ones hiding in his shadow.....
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