It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both.

Postby MC on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:26 am

I think it's a little too early for chicken little to be running around the neighborhood screaming the sky is falling.

This was NEVER going to be instant success......... one would have to be very naive to think otherwise.

They are sitting right around the same level as we saw the Heat when they first put together their "super team". It takes time, this is not fantasy Bball or 2K13...............
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both.

Postby Weezy on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:29 am

I don't see why we can't keep both... 'Antoni isn't going anywhere, they already fired one coach this season, they won't do it again or they'll look foolish. 'Antoni will get time and deservedly so, he'll at least get this season and next IMO, it's not an instant culture change. I still don't like the hire, but he's here to stay so I have to hope the players adjust. I don't see why if we start winning and Dwight is playing well he doesn't stay when we can offer him the most money, and 'Antoni stays too.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both.

Postby Snakell Beast on Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:52 pm

In a vacuum, Dwight fits the system. With a washed up Nash (increased injuries is a part of being washed up), a hobbled Gasol, one of the worst benches in the league and a pissed off, defensive (with the refs, certainly not on the floor) Kobe, Dwight DOES NOT fit. Teams can load up on Dwight (or foul him) depending on the situation, thus limiting Dwight's offensive opportunities and rythm.

We know we can get 18 and 9 from Gasol if he is our primary post option for 35 minutes per game, ESPECIALLY with someone like Dirk or Anderson at the 4. So, the question is, do we think it is worth it to get 12 points on 40% shooting from Gasol at the 4 next to Dwight, considering that Dwight is going to be relegated to missing 8-12 free throws a night, and largely going off ball because of a combination of strips and intentional fouls when he gets touches?

This frustrated style of ball also hurts the team because Dwight is less dominant defensively, and Kobe gets into "I am pissed at the team and pissed at the situation, so I am going to gamble defensively, force tough shots offensively and complain at the refs while the other team scores on the break" mode. Trading Pau is a mistake. I would rather EITHER trade Dwight for pieces that fit a free flowing undersized, unproven soft non-championship system in what antoni brings, OR KEEP BOTH, and get a coach (Cough***PHIL***Cough) that will want to beat teams up in the paint, and then use Kobe/Nash/Metta as the outside game in an inside-out philosphy that is defensively oriented and championship tested.
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby lakerfan2 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:01 pm

Trade Dwight for pieces?

Image

So you'd rather keep an old, injured, slow, unmotivated, soft PF/C than keep a young, athletic, defensive minded, physical C?

Our problems aren't offensive, I don't know what you're trying to get here by keeping Gasol.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Lakerjones on Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:10 pm

This is incredibly premature. Check back at the end of the year.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Snakell Beast on Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:21 pm

We can get A LOT MORE for Dwight than we can for Pau Gasol. We could probably get Ryan Anderson AND Eric Gordon from the Hornets for Dwight Howard. The Hornets are already thinking that Anthony Davis might be more suited to playing the 4 (ala Tim Duncan) next to a dominating, physical center. My point is, I would PREFER to keep BOTH Gasol and Howard, and fire antoni.

If the front office is hell bent on saving face by keeping pringles, then they must give him the roster that fits his system. The current roster/coach combination is heading for at BEST a 40-42 (and at worst a 25-57) record this season.
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Congo Cash on Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:28 pm

Am I reading that right... Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson for Dwight Howard? :man3:
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:36 pm

I'd say something bad about the posts, but I don't want to be labeled a racist by the guy that's trying to keep the white Spaniard on the team and kick the black guy to the curb for another white guy in Anderson.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby LakerBoyz24 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:52 pm

It's just the fact that Gasol can't co-exist with another C, because he's really a C himself. When he does, he regresses. He couldn't coexist with Bynum, and he can't coexist with Dwight.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Snakell Beast on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:43 pm

Doc Brown wrote:I'd say something bad about the posts, but I don't want to be labeled a racist by the guy that's trying to keep the white Spaniard on the team and kick the black guy to the curb for another white guy in Anderson.


I'd say something bad about you choosing to make ad hominem attacks against me (about my completely accurate statements regarding the racism against Mike Brown) rather than fighting the losing battle of defending Dwight's free throws, or the white coach who ISN'T being ridiculed on a personal level about his appearance and mannerisms the way said black coach was, despite the fact that he has lost MORE games this season, but that would be lowering myself to your level of argumentation...which is to say the lowest level of intellect and logic in existence.
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Finwë on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:49 pm

:man10: "my completely accurate statements"
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Snakell Beast on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:54 pm

Finwë wrote::man10: "my completely accurate statements"


You're so intelligent. That rebuttal to my argument is the epitome of genius.
Also, notice, you are not addressing the point I made, you're just trying to argue against me as a person...dead give away that you have no legit counter argument.
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:02 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:.which is to say the lowest level of intellect and logic in existence.


You can just say, "You're stupid", I don't get why you have to be all fancy about it.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Weezy on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:05 pm

If your comments about the racism against Mike Brown were completely accurate, how do you explain all the hate 'Antoni is getting now? Laker fans aren't about race, we're about winning, getting results, if you don't you're going to see hate and derogatory nicknames made up for you.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby lakersyunowin on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:07 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
Snakell Beast wrote:.which is to say the lowest level of intellect and logic in existence.


You can just say, "You're stupid", I don't get why you have to be all fancy about it.

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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Finwë on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:10 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:
Finwë wrote::man10: "my completely accurate statements"


You're so intelligent. That rebuttal to my argument is the epitome of genius.
Also, notice, you are not addressing the point I made, you're just trying to argue against me as a person...dead give away that you have no legit counter argument.

I have no intention of arguing with you. You were so off base and yet so secure on your original racism rant that the effort required to help you realize it would be extremely tiring. I don't care enough.
The fact that you keep believing that you were right (I actually lol'd) after everything said just proves my point, it would take too much time to try and help you see where you are wrong, and I don't even care about the discussion..

I think you are confused. You interpreted that short post with no arguments exposed as a sign of lack of intelligence, when it's nothing more than sheer indiferrence. I don't care AT ALL about your ideas of racism in the forum. I just found hilarious that you are still sure you were right.
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Finwë on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:11 pm

Weezy wrote:If your comments about the racism against Mike Brown were completely accurate, how do you explain all the hate 'Antoni is getting now?

Noooo, don't :man10:
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Snakell Beast on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:03 pm

Finwë wrote: I don't care AT ALL about your ideas of racism in the forum.


Keep arguing at me and insulting me, yet claiming not to care...maybe you can convince yourself that it is true if you say it enough times. Once again, insult my intelligence all you want, it doesn't change reality. No matter how many people believe something, no matter how many people on this forum mock others who disagree with them, no matter how many times, or how many different ways, you try to explain to me that my opinion is wrong because you disagree with it, that STILL doesn't mean that you are right, or that your argument is rational, logical or intelligent.

Just because a person's opinion is unpopular, that doesn't make it wrong. No matter how hard you argue with me, and no matter how insulting you are to me, you will NEVER convince me that there is NO racist sentiment to the hateful, personal comments made about Mike Brown by some of the people on this forum. You can laugh at me, deride me, and mock me for believing that, but that just makes you look like the arrogant, ignorant insecure bully that you are. Traits quite in common with Racists, especially white supremacists.

Once again, though, you continue to completely ignore my original point in this thread. Convenient.
The End is nigh. Time for a total Cut and Shuffle. Kobe contract was a mistake...time to avoid making more. The future is here, whether we want it to be or not. An era is over, but for the death rattle, and it's time for the cycle to begin anew. Growth and change are scary and painful, but alas...nothing worth achieving comes easily.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:10 pm

We don't know who is what color on this forum, so we can't assess who's being racist and who isn't. And that's a good thing.

Mike Brown did a terrible job last year, and he couldn't win a game this year. D'Antoni can't win games without a star pg, so here we are, waiting for Nash.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby dmaul on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:15 pm

Honestly, race didn't enter the picture at all for me when Brown was fired and I didn't feel that way from everything I heard on talk radio, tv analysts, people I talked to at work about it, etc, even here. It just felt like he was not the right guy for this job. Same with how it appears right now with D'Antoni. When you're not doing as good of a job, in a high profile setting, as people think they will talk smack and look for anything to deride you. I didn't think any of it was racially motivated though.

My question for you: how much racism do you think is on this board - a lot, a little? Do you think most of the people who criticized Brown are racist? With the people you talk to about basketball, do they think the way Brown was treated was unjust in a racially motivated way?
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby dmaul on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:16 pm

Sorry, this question was for the OP.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby Finwë on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:00 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:
Finwë wrote: I don't care AT ALL about your ideas of racism in the forum.


Keep arguing at me and insulting me, yet claiming not to care...maybe you can convince yourself that it is true if you say it enough times. Once again, insult my intelligence all you want, it doesn't change reality. No matter how many people believe something, no matter how many people on this forum mock others who disagree with them, no matter how many times, or how many different ways, you try to explain to me that my opinion is wrong because you disagree with it, that STILL doesn't mean that you are right, or that your argument is rational, logical or intelligent.

Just because a person's opinion is unpopular, that doesn't make it wrong. No matter how hard you argue with me, and no matter how insulting you are to me, you will NEVER convince me that there is NO racist sentiment to the hateful, personal comments made about Mike Brown by some of the people on this forum. You can laugh at me, deride me, and mock me for believing that, but that just makes you look like the arrogant, ignorant insecure bully that you are. Traits quite in common with Racists, especially white supremacists.

Once again, though, you continue to completely ignore my original point in this thread. Convenient.

:man10: I seriously don't care, I just found what Doc said funny, and then your response made me laugh too. }
EDIT 1: I'll be a sport and write up a quick summary of why I think you are wrong:
Every complaint about Mike Brown was directed at his coaching decisions. There is zero evidene to back up that there's some kind of racist motive behind that. We hated his rotations, his player management, his in game decisions (such as drawing plays), his offensive system, his lack of success at making the defense better despite being considered a "defensive specialist", his inability to motivate, his long shootarounds/practices before games that tired players, his game plans against certain teams, etc, etc. Literally NOTHING of the negative perception of those variables was in any way enhanced by Brown being black.

Regarding the topic in this thread, I don't agree. I will write up a post explaining why later. Tired.

EDIT 2: When did I insult you?

BTW, you write something like "you will NEVER convince me that there is NO racist sentiment to the hateful, personal comments made about Mike Brown by some of the people on this forum." and then you are surprised that I choose not to argue (because I know your mind is closed on this and it would take hours to try to get you to see you are wrong, and maybe not even that) with you? LOL.
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Re: It's Dwight or D'Antoni...Can't keep both and Contend

Postby TIME on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:25 pm

Locking this. Thread has become more about the TC than the topic.
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
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