D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: shouldering the load

Postby phoenixrisingla on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:30 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
phoenixrisingla wrote:Surprised to see so many people in here still slamming Dwight.

I for one think he's played great the last couple games and his attitude seems to have improved too.


Does your definition of Great include free throw shooting below his already horrific average?....

He played a decent game but to say it was "Great" would seem to indicate he would at least go above his averages in some category wouldn't you think?

He was active on defense until he got his 4th foul and then committed a pretty silly 5th one.... when he went to the bench after that we separated a little because the lane was wide open and Nash and Clark had some very easy chances off Kobe action to the weak side. This is a fact.... not a slam on Howard.

I'm sure he's limited by his shoulder injury and he gave us some good defense early to establish the tone of the game on that end but I'm not sure how anyone can get to "great" from there.

What's important is that we won.... we looked like a team for once and we played some defense off of Howard for a change. The next couple games will be the key to seeing if we can salvage anything from this season.


Look, you can still try to be negative about him if you really want. And if you keep using his averages from before the injury as a water mark, you'l be likely to continue being negative.

I guess great for me means "great relative to the 50% effort" we've seen from him before. His points werent mind blowing, neither was his rebounding truth be told. But when he's that active and energetic I'll take it.

Great by comparison to what I've seen earlier this season I guess. Time to readjust our expectations for our players and this team. Baby steps boys. :jam2:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:36 pm

Exactly. And more importantly we don't see his :disagree: face after the games in the locker room. Attitude is a lot of what "playing great" is about.

The foul trouble & FT % is troubling but as long as he's content, energetic, and hustling and being a great presence on the defensive end, I'm good with that.

Yes, winning cures everything, we've known that here in LA for some time now....
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: shouldering the load

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:35 pm

phoenixrisingla wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
phoenixrisingla wrote:Surprised to see so many people in here still slamming Dwight.

I for one think he's played great the last couple games and his attitude seems to have improved too.


Does your definition of Great include free throw shooting below his already horrific average?....

He played a decent game but to say it was "Great" would seem to indicate he would at least go above his averages in some category wouldn't you think?

He was active on defense until he got his 4th foul and then committed a pretty silly 5th one.... when he went to the bench after that we separated a little because the lane was wide open and Nash and Clark had some very easy chances off Kobe action to the weak side. This is a fact.... not a slam on Howard.

I'm sure he's limited by his shoulder injury and he gave us some good defense early to establish the tone of the game on that end but I'm not sure how anyone can get to "great" from there.

What's important is that we won.... we looked like a team for once and we played some defense off of Howard for a change. The next couple games will be the key to seeing if we can salvage anything from this season.


Look, you can still try to be negative about him if you really want. And if you keep using his averages from before the injury as a water mark, you'l be likely to continue being negative.

I guess great for me means "great relative to the 50% effort" we've seen from him before. His points werent mind blowing, neither was his rebounding truth be told. But when he's that active and energetic I'll take it.

Great by comparison to what I've seen earlier this season I guess. Time to readjust our expectations for our players and this team. Baby steps boys. :jam2:


So reality is "negative"....

Great players should play great. He's injured but Kobe has been injured in the past as well and still played great.

The offensive flow was away from him for the most part and when he was involved he was fouled. He didn't shoot free throws well by any known measure of "greatness" that I'm aware of either.

As I said, he helped set the tone on the defensive end that led to the win against a tough opponent. He was largely non-existent on the offensive end but it wasn't for a lack of opportunities as much as it was him being in foul trouble and missing free throws.

I guess I reserve the word great for something that is way above average. If I started using for average performances it would lose it's meaning..... :man10:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:53 pm

Can someone please clarify if we can S&T Dwight this summer? I heard the info from another forum, but I wanted to know if anybody here can shed some light?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:55 pm

No we can't. Sign and trades aren't allowed under the new CBA for teams over the cap (or maybe the tax threshold, but for us it doesn't matter).
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby khmrP on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:58 pm

^^^its possible, $4mill above the cap is the threshold, so a few house cleaning are in order for that to happen, mainly dumping Pau for nothing or amensty.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: shouldering the load

Postby phoenixrisingla on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:58 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
phoenixrisingla wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
phoenixrisingla wrote:Surprised to see so many people in here still slamming Dwight.

I for one think he's played great the last couple games and his attitude seems to have improved too.


Does your definition of Great include free throw shooting below his already horrific average?....

He played a decent game but to say it was "Great" would seem to indicate he would at least go above his averages in some category wouldn't you think?

He was active on defense until he got his 4th foul and then committed a pretty silly 5th one.... when he went to the bench after that we separated a little because the lane was wide open and Nash and Clark had some very easy chances off Kobe action to the weak side. This is a fact.... not a slam on Howard.

I'm sure he's limited by his shoulder injury and he gave us some good defense early to establish the tone of the game on that end but I'm not sure how anyone can get to "great" from there.

What's important is that we won.... we looked like a team for once and we played some defense off of Howard for a change. The next couple games will be the key to seeing if we can salvage anything from this season.


Look, you can still try to be negative about him if you really want. And if you keep using his averages from before the injury as a water mark, you'l be likely to continue being negative.

I guess great for me means "great relative to the 50% effort" we've seen from him before. His points werent mind blowing, neither was his rebounding truth be told. But when he's that active and energetic I'll take it.

Great by comparison to what I've seen earlier this season I guess. Time to readjust our expectations for our players and this team. Baby steps boys. :jam2:


So reality is "negative"....

Great players should play great. He's injured but Kobe has been injured in the past as well and still played great.

The offensive flow was away from him for the most part and when he was involved he was fouled. He didn't shoot free throws well by any known measure of "greatness" that I'm aware of either.

As I said, he helped set the tone on the defensive end that led to the win against a tough opponent. He was largely non-existent on the offensive end but it wasn't for a lack of opportunities as much as it was him being in foul trouble and missing free throws.

I guess I reserve the word great for something that is way above average. If I started using for average performances it would lose it's meaning..... :man10:


Umm, yes the reality is negative. Have you been watching at all this year? Not a lot to be positive about until recently.

As I said, you make it sounds as if setting the defensive tone is a small thing for this team. Based on how he affected the game last night, in comparison to ho he has played this season, he had a great game. Besides, you're conveniently ignoring his 17pt 13reb game against the Jazz. or is 17 and 13 "average" too? :man10:

You can turn this into a semantics debate regarding the proper syntax of using "great" and its meanings, or you can write off every game where Dwight doesnt get 20 and 20 as an average game.

Doesnt affect me either way, friend. :man1:
Last edited by phoenixrisingla on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:01 pm

therealdeal wrote:No we can't. Sign and trades aren't allowed under the new CBA for teams over the cap (or maybe the tax threshold, but for us it doesn't matter).


Thanks. Just curious...
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:03 pm

khmrP wrote:^^^its possible, $4mill above the cap is the threshold, so a few house cleaning are in order for that to happen, mainly dumping Pau for nothing or amensty.

We wouldn't waste our amnesty on a guy who's expiring. We're not the Warriors :man10:

I suppose if we traded Pau for literally nothing then it could work, but I don't see the Lakers going that route.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby khmrP on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:07 pm

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^its possible, $4mill above the cap is the threshold, so a few house cleaning are in order for that to happen, mainly dumping Pau for nothing or amensty.

We wouldn't waste our amnesty on a guy who's expiring. We're not the Warriors :man10:

I suppose if we traded Pau for literally nothing then it could work, but I don't see the Lakers going that route.


if Howard leaves us w/o any option other then S&T, why not? It could effectively put us under the cap and we could sign someone we need in addition to a S&T of Howard for more youth/picks etc.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:10 pm

Because we're still aiming for the blank canvas idea if Howard walks. We're still trying to rebuild from the ground up and if we start getting pieces back, we're still getting smashed by punitive taxes levied against teams who are "repeaters".

Part of the appeal of the total rebuild process is that we're likely going to be under the luxury tax threshold for a year so we can avoid those taxes. You start signing more guys and signing and trading guys, we're not likely to be a contender and we're going to pay out the nose for it.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby khmrP on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:16 pm

therealdeal wrote:Because we're still aiming for the blank canvas idea if Howard walks. We're still trying to rebuild from the ground up and if we start getting pieces back, we're still getting smashed by punitive taxes levied against teams who are "repeaters".

Part of the appeal of the total rebuild process is that we're likely going to be under the luxury tax threshold for a year so we can avoid those taxes. You start signing more guys and signing and trading guys, we're not likely to be a contender and we're going to pay out the nose for it.


dont matter to me since I'm not a Kobe fan but that to me would just be wasting another yr of his career or probably his last yr altogether if we're gona be inflexible with that plan. If you can sign the player to contend w/o Howard with the cap space in addition to adding solid pieces such as talented youth and picks it would make it a better transition IMO. I dont want to be like the Mavericks.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:23 pm

khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Because we're still aiming for the blank canvas idea if Howard walks. We're still trying to rebuild from the ground up and if we start getting pieces back, we're still getting smashed by punitive taxes levied against teams who are "repeaters".

Part of the appeal of the total rebuild process is that we're likely going to be under the luxury tax threshold for a year so we can avoid those taxes. You start signing more guys and signing and trading guys, we're not likely to be a contender and we're going to pay out the nose for it.


dont matter to me since I'm not a Kobe fan but that to me would just be wasting another yr of his career or probably his last yr altogether if we're gona be inflexible with that plan. If you can sign the player to contend w/o Howard with the cap space in addition to adding solid pieces such as talented youth and picks it would make it a better transition IMO. I dont want to be like the Mavericks.

Well we won't because we're based in LA, the West Coast Capital of entertainment. Dallas can't hold a candle to the appeal we have on people. I mean hell, Dwight didn't want to come here until he felt the LA lifestyle during his recovery.

I know what you're saying, but I think that's honestly the FOs take on this season: we're going all out for 2 years and then we're done with that crap for a year or two after Kobe retires. Obviously no one was expecting this epic failure of a season, but I strongly doubt it changes the future plans because we're talking about the Busses paying 100 million in just taxes for the next two seasons. If Dwight walks, we'll probably just try to fill the gap with some cheaper guys. Kobe and Gasol and probably Nash will finish their careers together (at least in LA).

Just my thoughts on how this'll go.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby khmrP on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:28 pm

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Because we're still aiming for the blank canvas idea if Howard walks. We're still trying to rebuild from the ground up and if we start getting pieces back, we're still getting smashed by punitive taxes levied against teams who are "repeaters".

Part of the appeal of the total rebuild process is that we're likely going to be under the luxury tax threshold for a year so we can avoid those taxes. You start signing more guys and signing and trading guys, we're not likely to be a contender and we're going to pay out the nose for it.


dont matter to me since I'm not a Kobe fan but that to me would just be wasting another yr of his career or probably his last yr altogether if we're gona be inflexible with that plan. If you can sign the player to contend w/o Howard with the cap space in addition to adding solid pieces such as talented youth and picks it would make it a better transition IMO. I dont want to be like the Mavericks.

Well we won't because we're based in LA, the West Coast Capital of entertainment. Dallas can't hold a candle to the appeal we have on people. I mean hell, Dwight didn't want to come here until he felt the LA lifestyle during his recovery.

I know what you're saying, but I think that's honestly the FOs take on this season: we're going all out for 2 years and then we're done with that crap for a year or two after Kobe retires. Obviously no one was expecting this epic failure of a season, but I strongly doubt it changes the future plans because we're talking about the Busses paying 100 million in just taxes for the next two seasons. If Dwight walks, we'll probably just try to fill the gap with some cheaper guys. Kobe and Gasol and probably Nash will finish their careers together (at least in LA).

Just my thoughts on how this'll go.


when I ref Dall I wasn't ref them for signing star player, I ref them because they're wasting Dirks last couple of years trying to wait and pursure certain star players. I dont want to see that happen here while Kobe is still playing at an elite lvl.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: shouldering the load

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:58 pm

phoenixrisingla wrote:Umm, yes the reality is negative. Have you been watching at all this year? Not a lot to be positive about until recently.

As I said, you make it sounds as if setting the defensive tone is a small thing for this team. Based on how he affected the game last night, in comparison to ho he has played this season, he had a great game. Besides, you're conveniently ignoring his 17pt 13reb game against the Jazz. or is 17 and 13 "average" too? :man10:

You can turn this into a semantics debate regarding the proper syntax of using "great" and its meanings, or you can write off every game where Dwight doesnt get 20 and 20 as an average game.

Doesnt affect me either way, friend. :man1:


Not at all.... setting the defensive tone is a positive.... but that's the one thing he's done consistently this year.... He's gotten frustrated when the others stand and watch him and then has bailed a couple of times.....

The last couple games the others have actually began to play off of him and rotate to protect him when he rotates.... that's not a Dwight thing... he's been doing that.... it's a Pau, Kobe, MWP and Nash thing. They were the reason the D is better... Dwight was about the same until he was limited by fouls.

It seems we won't see eye to eye on this. When Dwight has a "great" game I'll be back to congratulate him on it..... :man12:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:02 pm

LA Lakers

Dwight today directly addressed how things are better between him and Kobe now: "I'm happy that me and Kobe are ...

getting on the same page."

Dwight said it wasn't always an easy process.

"Two big dogs, and we bump heads," he said. "Instead of us bumping heads, we need to do things to lead this team."

Dwight said the team meeting Wednesday in Memphis was helpful in refocusing everyone off individual desires -- including him and Kobe: "We both want to win."

Dwight also said he feels like him and Kobe are at a point to "think as one and be one on the court. That took some time, but we're getting better."

Dwight declined to get into any specifics of the team meeting but said: "It really helped. It helped everybody on the team. It was great. People said it was like a 'Come to Jesus' meeting. ... None of the stuff was taken personally. We all want to hang another banner up here, and we all want to have rings."



http://sulia.com/channel/la-lakers/f/2c ... ce=twitter
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby XXIV on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:23 pm

^ You could definitely tell there was something going on between Kobe and Dwight, but it appeared Kobe was really trying to fix whatever the issue was while Dwight was busy pouting and showing the stat sheet to the media. I'm glad Dwight feels things are better and hopefully it continues even if we were to have another bad stretch.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:26 pm

khmrP wrote:when I ref Dall I wasn't ref them for signing star player, I ref them because they're wasting Dirks last couple of years trying to wait and pursure certain star players. I dont want to see that happen here while Kobe is still playing at an elite lvl.

Well to their credit they were actually poised to do what we did and were spurned by the star they tried to get. They've still got a chance at Dwight this summer and you know they'll be making a pitch to him.

We SHOULD be in a better position than we are now, but if things fall apart this summer I don't know if the Busses will be willing to continue spending likely well after Kobe retires. I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to pay in 2016 a ton of money because in 2014 they gave Kobe a team that was supposed to be a contender but wasn't.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby karacha on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:29 pm

This is why Kobe is the leader, and if Dwight wants to lead, he has the opportunity to learn. That's OK. Kobe wasn't exactly... uhhh... the easiest player in the world to work with early in his career. He knows it, Phil knew it... it takes time to mature.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: shouldering the load

Postby phoenixrisingla on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:47 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
phoenixrisingla wrote:Umm, yes the reality is negative. Have you been watching at all this year? Not a lot to be positive about until recently.

As I said, you make it sounds as if setting the defensive tone is a small thing for this team. Based on how he affected the game last night, in comparison to ho he has played this season, he had a great game. Besides, you're conveniently ignoring his 17pt 13reb game against the Jazz. or is 17 and 13 "average" too? :man10:

You can turn this into a semantics debate regarding the proper syntax of using "great" and its meanings, or you can write off every game where Dwight doesnt get 20 and 20 as an average game.

Doesnt affect me either way, friend. :man1:


Not at all.... setting the defensive tone is a positive.... but that's the one thing he's done consistently this year.... He's gotten frustrated when the others stand and watch him and then has bailed a couple of times.....

The last couple games the others have actually began to play off of him and rotate to protect him when he rotates.... that's not a Dwight thing... he's been doing that.... it's a Pau, Kobe, MWP and Nash thing. They were the reason the D is better... Dwight was about the same until he was limited by fouls.

It seems we won't see eye to eye on this. When Dwight has a "great" game I'll be back to congratulate him on it..... :man12:


Haha. Works for me. :jam2:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby last stand on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:15 pm

Everyone could see the animosity. Kobe with age was the bigger man and met him halfway. Dwight hasn't been very secretive lately. He's letting his feelings be known
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby tttttada on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:30 pm

Quite frankly, this guy is starting to piss me off. It seems like everyone on this team is making a sacrifice and playing out of their natural style/comfort zone.

Nash - taking more of a SG role
Kobe - sacrificing his scoring, and he's playmaking
Pau - coming off bench, playing in the high post (opposed to the low post, where he prefers)
MWP and Clark - doing whatever it takes

And yet, Howard is all about wanting this and that. Him talking about being humble is quite laughable. He's the new guy, he should be making the biggest sacrifice.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby Balance&Options24 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:37 pm

Man I hope this dude is like a sponge and soaks in everything he can from Kobe.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:47 pm

^It's this generation.

The Kobe era of players (and earlier) were all about confrontation and bringing the best out of others. Whereas Dwight & LeBrons generation is all about milk and cookies and being besttttttt friends with each other.

I think it's just a general trend in social interaction. I see it in schools, the work place, etc. too. We're turning into sissies :man6:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: a shoulder to cry on

Postby GoldHammish on Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:15 pm

therealdeal wrote:No we can't. Sign and trades aren't allowed under the new CBA for teams over the cap (or maybe the tax threshold, but for us it doesn't matter).

Actually, I believe I read a week or so ago Larry Coon tweet that teams over the cap can send players out via S&T, but they (we) cannot receive a sign-and-traded player.
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