D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby scissors on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:02 pm

Maybe if Nash and Kobe baby this guy a bit and tell him how valuable he is, maybe he'll buy in to all this. After all its not that hard pumping up an immature guy. Just gotta baby him and stop with the tough love.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby khmrP on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:05 pm

Weezy wrote:
JGC wrote:Ok so just curious. If you could do it all over again, and let's assume Drew would remain healthy, would you still trade Dwight for Drew?

I think the answer is a lot harder now than it was a few months ago.


If I had it to do over again, KNOWING that Drew would miss the entire season I probably wouldn't. No, Drew wouldn't have played, but Bynum would be expiring just like Dwight and only we wouldn't have had to deal with this circus. Possibly no hiring of 'Antoni, no delusional front office banking on Dwight as our future, hoping he'll re-sign for the max when he hardly seems worth it, though Pau probably still gets injured having to play with no Bynum so we'd be screwed just the same. The only thing we lose is we never get and discover Earl Clark. I'd probably avoid this circus and growing to really dislike Dwight and having to go through the frustration and disbelief that our FO thinks he's the guy to lead us into the future to championships if I had it to do over again. So I guess I'm saying I'd happily take neither Drew or Dwight.


Howard still has tradable value, something I doubt Bynum has very little off.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby Weezy on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:09 pm

karacha wrote:^

Pau would probably go down sooner and we would not even discuss making the playoffs (potentially). And we'd probably let Clark go, and that would be a disaster of epic proportions.


I'm not sure if you were responding to my post or not, you pointed at it but that could have been a mistake. In my scenario we don't trade Drew, so we never get Clark. And knowing that I still stand by it so we never have to deal with Dwight and his crap. I'd rather go down due to injuries and have a legit excuse than go down due to lack of effort on the part of a player like Dwight and be one of the embarrassments of the league, if that makes sense.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby SpencerHarrison on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:20 pm

UNITE AGAINST DWIGHT!

Honestly I just can't stand the guy. Even in the "big" games he has had numbers wise, I've been indifferent. I would rather lose with Sacre in there than watch Dwight get chippy with Nash. What an absolute clown.

It's fitting that his success came with the Magic, because Dwight Howard was an illusion (thank you, thank you).

As Kobe so famously said, ship his (expletive) out.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby Weezy on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:23 pm

khmrP wrote:
Weezy wrote:
JGC wrote:Ok so just curious. If you could do it all over again, and let's assume Drew would remain healthy, would you still trade Dwight for Drew?

I think the answer is a lot harder now than it was a few months ago.


If I had it to do over again, KNOWING that Drew would miss the entire season I probably wouldn't. No, Drew wouldn't have played, but Bynum would be expiring just like Dwight and only we wouldn't have had to deal with this circus. Possibly no hiring of 'Antoni, no delusional front office banking on Dwight as our future, hoping he'll re-sign for the max when he hardly seems worth it, though Pau probably still gets injured having to play with no Bynum so we'd be screwed just the same. The only thing we lose is we never get and discover Earl Clark. I'd probably avoid this circus and growing to really dislike Dwight and having to go through the frustration and disbelief that our FO thinks he's the guy to lead us into the future to championships if I had it to do over again. So I guess I'm saying I'd happily take neither Drew or Dwight.


Howard still has tradable value, something I doubt Bynum has very little off.


He does, but we're not going to use it, so to me he's no different than Bynum as an expiring because I'm pretty sure Dwight is walking at the end of the season. I know the 30 mil more from us argument, but I think he'd leave that to not play for a team he seems to hate.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby last stand on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:29 pm

i think it's clear that the only thing howard has in common with bynum is both are the popular scapegoats.

everyone seems to ignore how bad nash and artest have been defensively, everyone seems to ignore how jamison has somehow been worse than those two defensively and people ignore that bench scoring outside of jamison doesn't exist

dwight hasn't done himself any favors with his mouth and attitude (just like bynum didn't) but the desire to pin everything on one person is ridiculous. the only person who deserves to be somewhat immune is kobe because he's had a great season especially in year 17 but everyone else has done their fair share to torpedo this season
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:33 pm

Howard reminds me a lot of how LBJ was in Cleveland. Always wants to laugh and play games, never took anything serious and when the going got tough, LBJ/D12 crumbled. Very immature and not ready to lead a team to a ring.

Lebron has since figured it out and has grown up immensely since leaving Cleveland, D12 seems to be still stuck in that, "I just want to have fun" stage and as long as his focus is on that, much like the LBJ Cleveland teams, we will come up short.

D12 should be in that win at all costs and total focus by now in his career and I find it troubling that a person in his 9th season still hasn't figured it out.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby Lakerjones on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:41 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Howard reminds me a lot of how LBJ was in Cleveland. Always wants to laugh and play games, never took anything serious and when the going got tough, LBJ/D12 crumbled. Very immature and not ready to lead a team to a ring.

Lebron has since figured it out and has grown up immensely since leaving Cleveland, D12 seems to be still stuck in that, "I just want to have fun" stage and as long as his focus is on that, much like the LBJ Cleveland teams, we will come up short.

D12 should be in that win at all costs and total focus by now in his career and I find it troubling that a person in his 9th season still hasn't figured it out.


^^ Great analogy, Doc. Very much agree with you. Problem is, even when LBJ wasn't clutch and was immature, he was still a MUCH better player than what we are seeing out of Howard. Howard needs to get his act together and fast. His act is growing incredibly tiresome in very little time at all. This doesn't fly. Real leaders like Nash and Kobe are down on his fooling around and lack of effort.

He won't be here long if he keeps acting like this. All of our main players have sacrificed for this team: Kobe sacrificed his shooting to run the offense, Nash sacrificed running the offense and is having to play more off ball, Pau had been relegated to three point shooting, and then to the bench . . . sure he whined about it. But D12 hasn't had to sacrifice anything and he's acting like a female dog right now.

I think his teammates know full well that this guy isn't bringing his all. Look at Earl Clark even telling him to chill the hell out.

Really, Earl Clark was the best thing we got in the trade at this point. As far as I'm concerned Dwight's buying his own ticket out of LA. I won't cry if he goes.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby khmrP on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:47 pm

his attitude effort suck but dont put the entire blame on him, as other's have noted NOBODY is doing their job on the perimiter, even if we have prime Kareem or prime Russel out there they wouldn't be able to cover for the all the horrible D we're seeing at times. I argued with Rev bout Bynum D but its obvious now that after a while even an elite big like Howard is probably getting tired of helping only to see his man get a wide open dunk/layup cause NOBODY helps the helper on this team. On top of that the FO "allows" Brown to implelent an offense that he isn't even a master at and has to rely on an assistant to incorporate. Granted the tri isn't Phil offense either but he was/is a master of it with all the years he's used it under Winters. Follow that decision up by hiring an up tempo coach in which we have merely 1 or 2 players who fit that scheme, not even Nash is capable of playing that style anymore IMO, we didn't even win at a good rate until Kobe had to take over as the facilitator and shot creator.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby Lakerjones on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:55 pm

Earl Clark has done a good job helping the helper on defense in Dwight's case since he became a starter.

I'm not going to completely blame Howard especially when MWP is sucking, and bench guys like Jamison don't play any defense at all.

But this guy's act is really getting tiresome. He's not giving it his all, or even close to it right now. It's lack of effort. That's what's not really acceptable right now. And the worst part is the blame game from him. You don't blame that play on Nash. He didn't move his feet AT ALL when Nash was double teamed and trapped. And then he's blaming it on Nash. I think Nash has been biting his tongue somewhat, but Dwight's dishonesty about being cleared to play, and all the weak play he's been giving out lately has obviously been bothering the leaders of our team. And these aren't nobody leaders. This is Steve Freaking Nash and Kobe Bryant - two of the best who have ever played the game.

In other words - screw Dwight. Get it straight or GTFO. You don't want to play hard? You don't want to sacrifice for the success of the team? So long. We won't miss you.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby LooN3y on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:00 pm

defense is bad, but when dwight constantly asks for the ball and stop the offense and tries to post up and gets stripped, misses free throws, makes a bad pass, or airballs a jump hook, doesnt help either.


this guy is a cancer, if nash and kobe 2 former MVPS one that has 2 and another that has 5 rings gives you [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.], you must be doing something wrong.


and we're talking about NASH


ship his a** out
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby Weezy on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:07 pm

I'm not trying to put ALL the blame on Dwight, just a lot of it. IMO his attitude, lack of effort, passive aggressive comments to the media, dislike of the coach and seemingly not even getting along with some teammates are a cancer infecting this team. It's not a coincidence to me that we were wining when Dwight was out and Pau was in. Pau has had his issues with 'Antoni, his role, and his body, but he was still giving all he could on the court.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby 432J on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:18 pm

if dwight was 100% the problem would be alot less than what it is now

but with dwight battling injuries all season long and his lack of fundamentals exposed, it's a HUGE part of the problem that has been this entire season. and who knows if he'll ever get back to where he was a few years ago
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby noobiew on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:28 pm

By Kevin Ding

MIAMI – What's wrong with you if the Greatest Teammate Ever is fed up with you?

Well, what's wrong with Dwight Howard is he still isn't trying.

And for Steve Nash – who has spent close to two decades in the NBA making anyone who tried hard next to him look better than ever and who said during his own MVP heights that if everybody worked as hard as he does, he wouldn't even be in the league – not trying is infuriating.

They were always the most curious pairing of all the complex ones on these Lakers: The ultimate underdog and the No. 1 overall everything. The one who after practice Saturday was doing extreme pushups in conjunction with sprints, the other who was sitting in a courtside seat playing with his phone.

Neither of the Lakers' celebrated acquisitions has been healthy this season, which is part of the problem. It's about the only thing Nash and Howard have had in common.

For months, Nash has been talking about the Lakers needing to have "shared experiences" to grow together. That's tough if the teammates are seeing the experiences from totally different perspectives.

That's what prompted Nash and Howard to yell at each other in the third quarter of the Lakers' loss Sunday in Miami.

Nash drove and was trapped on the baseline by two Miami defenders, Udonis Haslem about to force Nash out of bounds and Mario Chalmers also there between Nash and Howard, who stood deep in the paint. The other three Lakers had the floor spaced the way Mike D'Antoni wants, all behind the 3-point arc, so no other Heat player could get to Howard.

Howard had time to stand there, stare at Nash and the two Heat players, hold his arms up and wave them.


So Howard's eyes and arms were working. Tragically, his legs and feet were not.

Are we going to chalk this up to after effects from his April back surgery, too?

Howard just stood there instead of trying to help Nash create a passing lane – and get himself an easy dunk, as Nash gestured afterward would've happened if Howard just did something besides stand there.

In Howard's eyes, he was open, so give him the ball. That has been Howard's point of view much of the season: He simply wants the ball, wants his touches, wants his shots – and yet refuses to buy into the D'Antoni doctrine that "the ball finds energy."


If Howard really lusts for individual offense so badly, why not try harder to get the ball? Even if he can't explode like he did when he fully trusted his body, at least try to do something. Just look at how well things went even with makeshift non-Nash point guards for Jordan Hill – with a herniated disk in his back and other injuries before requiring hip surgery – when he simply rolled hard off picks.

When teams trap or zone Nash, as they usually do, and stay at home on Kobe Bryant on the backside, it's pretty obvious that Howard is the guy with no one on him for the moment after the pick.


Catch, step, step. Score.

Not always, but certainly often – if you try.


Watch footage of those old Phoenix sets and it's more like pick and run for how hard the Suns would cut. Nash's magic has always risen out of everyone moving, teammates inspired by trust in him getting them the ball right on time if they brought real energy.

When Howard did not in that moment Sunday, after so many games now feeling trapped by so many instances of Howard's immobility, Nash snapped – far more so than when the two squabbled in Denver on Dec. 26, Howard's most lifeless game of the season besides Thursday in Boston.

Why won't Howard try?

He's simply afraid to hurt himself?

He wants to save his body for free agency and beyond?

He really hates pick-and-roll offense so much now – maybe because Shaquille O'Neal is so deep in his head that he's determined to prove O'Neal's preseason statement incorrect about the only way Howard is the best center in the league? ("If you want to go to flash and dunking and the pick and roll, you gotta go with Dwight Howard.")

Does it even matter?

When you know that this whole team's fate rides on Howard's level of effort, are 39 years old and just faced your own basketball mortality with a seven-week broken leg (and yes, Nash came back and is playing through his own nerve damage in his left leg, as Howard regularly cites about his left leg), it's enough to start steaming inside.

Even if you're known as the Greatest Teammate Ever.

Nash is not convinced Howard is incapable of playing pick and roll.

"We'd like to get him in the pick and roll more," Nash said Sunday. "I think that's how he was really good in Orlando. He'd pick and he'd dive and they'd swing and put it in to him, so he could get deeper catches and the help side has a more difficult time coming to him.

"I don't know. It's been difficult really to get him into that game – running into pick and rolls, diving hard, looking for the ball. We really haven't found that rhythm from him yet."

From him.

Howard would probably say for him.

He sat down after the game Sunday to do an interview with a highly attractive female reporter from Puerto Rico wearing clingy clothes and huge heels. Her first observation/question?

I watched the game today and you don't seem to be given the ball very much ...

Indeed, despite all the Defensive Player of the Year awards, the superficial stardom that Howard craves comes only from one end of the court.

It becomes a crucial issue when the Lakers aren't convinced Howard will consistently play hard on defense unless he has a role he accepts on offense.

Nash is not blameless for the Lakers' struggles; Bryant and D'Antoni, either. Rest assured, though, that even as the Lakers' brass tries to placate Howard so he'll re-sign, those three are on the same page about what hasn't clicked on Howard's end.

They've tried to feed him in the post early in games despite the analytics showing little production, and he has been trying a little harder in recent weeks – aside from sitting out because of fears over shoulder pain.

He tried on defense in the fourth quarter in Charlotte despite not getting any shots during the Lakers' improbable, important rally. And as long as Howard tries some – and his right shoulder appears to be sound enough for that considering he was hoisting 3-pointer after 3-pointer as his final warmup before tip-off Sunday – the Lakers will keep getting better.

They actually are in position to win their next two before the All-Star break (Suns, Clippers) and then two after (Celtics, Trail Blazers), all home games, and reach .500. As long as Howard tries some, yes, the Lakers will make the playoffs – as there's plenty of time to catch mediocre Utah or inexperienced Houston. And what if he really tries hard?

Even with his quarrel with Howard on Sunday, Nash said the Lakers are "sputtering in the right direction."

He isn't fed up to the point of giving up.

"We're not in here ready to quit on each other," Nash said. "We're still going for it. But it's just been really slow going."

That's how it goes when someone in a group believes failure is being done to him instead of by him.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby jonnyshevanel on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:43 pm

Rick Fox was spot on in that ESPNRadio interview. Dwight is either going to have an awakening and start playing like a winner or he's going to be gone, and hopefully we can get something in return for him if he does end up gone
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby XXIV on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:46 pm

^ After the news came out that Mitch assured Dwight that he won't be traded I don't know if they will go back on their word. We'd likely have to get a really good offer but I'm not certain a team will offer that for a potential half season rental of Dwight.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby The Rock on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:04 am

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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby The Rock on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:05 am

Hes like D-Whistle from 06-08. Hes worn down by injuries but his attitude has made things look really bad
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby dj vitus on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:06 am

Miami threw a wrench in our offense by fronting Dwight every trip down the court. We never adjusted. Both games. Never adjusted.

So why did we not practice lobbing the ball over a defender for an easy Dwight dunk under the basket? We knew they were gonna run the same defense over and over and over. :freak2:

It's easy to blame Dwight, but no one person gets all the blame. Coach needs to adjust. D'Antoni is making Spo look like a genius out there. That and Nash needs to expect Dwight to not score 22 points every single game. That's not Dwight. Dwight has has many games where he would score 5 or 6 points and/or foul out early. Those games, we need to spread the offense. Pick and roll with Clark, Jamison, Sacre, etc.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:22 am

^D'Antoni hasn't made in-game adjustmenst to save his life so far; that's where I miss Phil. Addtionally, nobody on our team can make an entry pass.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby Jordan-esque on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:31 am

Kobe/Dwight topic so...

Kobe: "People trying to find (bleep) between me and Dwight need a life. It's manufactured. At least the Shaq stuff was warranted."

http://lakeshowlife.com/2013/02/10/kobe ... ight-talk/

"It’s really not that big of a deal. This thing (that started in Boston), they really made something out of nothing. There’s nothing I said that was out of the ordinary or that I haven’t said before in talking to him.”

“Honestly, I’m done talking about it. There’s nothing to talk about. I’m done with it. There’s nothing to discuss.”

"People trying to find (bleep) between me and Dwight need to get a life, it's silly. At least the Shaq stuff was warrranted. This is comical."

"I told Dwight that story and how people making it out to be is total (bleep)."


More from Kobe:

http://www.lakersnation.com/video-kobe- ... dl1tohasHg

“It’s conflict that is actually manufactured. I didn’t say anything wrong…I wasn’t hammering him over the head or taking a run at him.”

“I’ll own up to my (bleep) if I took a run at somebody."

After laughing that statement off, Kobe also informed reporters that although he wasn’t one to address media stories with his teammates, he did reach out to Howard to clarify that he was not calling him out, and that his quotes were taken out of context. Asked if they were able to laugh off the stories in the locker room.

“I think they’re entertaining. I have a sick sense of humor I guess.”
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby LooN3y on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:37 am

hes gone, i dont see any reason for him to stay unless he does a complete 180 and gives into the team.

LA doesnt want him
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby Nikez on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:36 am

last stand wrote:i think it's clear that the only thing howard has in common with bynum is both are the popular scapegoats.

everyone seems to ignore how bad nash and artest have been defensively, everyone seems to ignore how jamison has somehow been worse than those two defensively and people ignore that bench scoring outside of jamison doesn't exist

dwight hasn't done himself any favors with his mouth and attitude (just like bynum didn't) but the desire to pin everything on one person is ridiculous. the only person who deserves to be somewhat immune is kobe because he's had a great season especially in year 17 but everyone else has done their fair share to torpedo this season

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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby havoc33 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:06 am

There was another sighting that was very telling towards the end of the Miami game. Don't remember exactly when it happened, but it was during the later parts of the 4th quarter, Lakers were falling behind... So coming out of a timeout, the camera actually catches Howard, Kobe and Nash in closeup shot. Kobe and Nash are passionately discussing strategy, next play or whatever.. and the thing is Howard is standing right there next to Kobe. They are all three facing the camera. But Howard has both his arms on his hips, and is not even listening to the conversation, he is looking the other way with a totally blank face. I just couldn't believe it. The guy was totally tuned out, and this is crunch time, with two of the greatest trying to find a way to come back in the game. You would think that Howard would be engaged in such a conversation? I mean it looked ridiculous.. you could see that Howard was not into it, and i don't know if that's because he checked out already or if he felt left out of the convo, but needless to say he is not on the same page as Kobe and Nash at all. Those two are running the show and Howard is not buying in. Did anyone of you catch this? Maybe someone can find the clip?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: (p.863: Nash Frustrated w/Dwight)

Postby The Rock on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:55 am


Just from 4 yrs ago when he had the amazing run to the finals, that explosion quick feet off the ground isnt there this year. 40/14 against an Ilgauskas/Ben Wallace/Varejao group that troubled Duncan a lot in the 07 finals is pretty damn good. We need this guy to get his attitude straightened out & then his body healthy
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