D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby dj vitus on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:57 pm

Did anyone point out his 4 turnovers last night on the same stat sheet? :man11:

Bagging aside, someone else mentioned that moving Pau would allow Dwight to get more touches with enough space to actually operate. Guess we need to watch more Orlando tapes to see how it worked instead of tapes of us getting blown out.

I remember Kareem saying that when the Lakers didn't run the ball through him in the beginning of the game, he would just pick up two quick fouls and ride the pine. :man10:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby cleverdevil on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:00 pm

dj vitus wrote:Did anyone point out his 4 turnovers last night on the same stat sheet? :man11:

Bagging aside, someone else mentioned that moving Pau would allow Dwight to get more touches with enough space to actually operate. Guess we need to watch more Orlando tapes to see how it worked instead of tapes of us getting blown out.

I remember Kareem saying that when the Lakers didn't run the ball through him in the beginning of the game, he would just pick up two quick fouls and ride the pine. :man10:


Haha! That Kareem quote is awesome. Sounds like me. I'm not the best teammate LOL.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Herm24 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:11 pm

He's mentally weak .. Always has been, always will be .. You want the ball then: DEMAND IT! .. Get your butt on the block and seal your man .. Dwight doesn't even know how to do that .. When you get the ball: GO UP STRONG! .. Enough of getting stripped every other time down .. When you get fouled: HIT YOUR FREE THROWS! .. Your teammates are only gonna lose confidence in getting you the ball when it becomes an empty trip once you clank both of your free throws .. Show some heart and passion .. You might be a franchise player for these other sorry organizations but not for the Lakers .. It takes much more than being 270 pounds and athletic .. You gotta have the heart, the passion, the fire, the will to get better, etc .. You got to want to be the best .. He's lucky the center position is obsolete .. He wouldn't stand a chance in the 80s and 90s ... I'm already sick of this guy ..
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:15 pm

cleverdevil wrote:
dj vitus wrote:Did anyone point out his 4 turnovers last night on the same stat sheet? :man11:

Bagging aside, someone else mentioned that moving Pau would allow Dwight to get more touches with enough space to actually operate. Guess we need to watch more Orlando tapes to see how it worked instead of tapes of us getting blown out.

I remember Kareem saying that when the Lakers didn't run the ball through him in the beginning of the game, he would just pick up two quick fouls and ride the pine. :man10:


Haha! That Kareem quote is awesome. Sounds like me. I'm not the best teammate LOL.


Kareem made that comment in 81.... when Magic was getting a little too big for his britches.... Magic hurt his knee that year and by the time everyone got back together they had sorted out their respective roles....

If Magic hadn't gotten hurt that year Kareem was on his way out if the rumors were to be believed.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby The Rock on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:16 pm

Hes doing what Pau is doing. the media after the game is bunch of questions asking why hes being ineffective and they simply point to the shot totals as way to deflect it and get the pressure of them. And we know these media pundits run away with it blaming Kobe at every opportunity they can get.

Neither mean it.

Having said that he needs to pick up his energy
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:53 pm

^^He didn't "mean" to show his teammates the stat sheet and complain to them behind Kobe's back about his shot attempts? When did Pau do this?

Did I miss something?
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby LakerFanIam on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:54 pm

To be fair though... Dwight would average a ton more shot attempts if he didn't get stripped every time he dribbles the ball in the post.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby phoenixrisingla on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:57 pm

LakerFanIam wrote:To be fair though... Dwight would average a ton more shot attempts if he didn't get stripped every time he dribbles the ball in the post.


He doesnt even have to dribble to get stripped.

Dude's "gather" move brings the ball down around his waist. :nono2:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby The Rock on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:01 pm

Both are pointing to shot attempts, its easy to point to that to take pressure off you. Dwight played like absolute junk last night and yet not much of the focus is on him. He accomplished what he sought out to do.

Either way I look at his situation like Ron's back nerve problem or whatever the hell he had last year, he looks much more fluid right now compared to last year even though his decision making has been pretty bad on the court these days. Its not like hes explosive one play and in another play on the same night he doesnt have it. The dude is moving like a stiff the whole game I pointed that out in another thread

This is what losing does all these little itty bitty petty issues come out. Trade Pau, get some shooters and athletes and make your march towards the playoffs.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Ludachris on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:01 pm

Herm24 wrote:He's mentally weak .. Always has been, always will be .. You want the ball then: DEMAND IT! .. Get your butt on the block and seal your man .. Dwight doesn't even know how to do that .. When you get the ball: GO UP STRONG! .. Enough of getting stripped every other time down .. When you get fouled: HIT YOUR FREE THROWS! .. Your teammates are only gonna lose confidence in getting you the ball when it becomes an empty trip once you clank both of your free throws .. Show some heart and passion .. You might be a franchise player for these other sorry organizations but not for the Lakers .. It takes much more than being 270 pounds and athletic .. You gotta have the heart, the passion, the fire, the will to get better, etc .. You got to want to be the best .. He's lucky the center position is obsolete .. He wouldn't stand a chance in the 80s and 90s ... I'm already sick of this guy ..

Dwight doesn't know how to seal his man without using his elbows and busting the guy in the face, and racking up cheap fouls. He doesn't know how to play with his back to the basket without getting stripped much of the time. And he can't make a free throw. The defense will continue to swipe at him and force turn overs or missed free throws. And if they continue do to so (which would be the smart thing to do) he'll never get more than 10 shots per game. He should be working harder on offensive rebounding and getting in position to score that way. He needs to use his legs and body to get position and keep his elbows down when calling for the ball in the post. And please, stop driving into a crowd in the middle when you do try a strong move.

On a side note, when was the last time a team won a championship using a dominant big man as their first or second option on offense? I mean truly dependent upon that big man to score points and be the defensive anchor. Don't say Bynum. It was probably Shaq. So why should the Lakers pin their future all on Howard? I understand Howard has the chance to be like Shaq but it doesn't appear that he has the mental toughness to live up to that, and with the way the league has evolved, it looks as if it could be easier to build a contender around a dominant wing player or a point guard instead of a dominant big man these days (like OKC, Miami, etc) and just have solid big men as role players. Not that you can really trade him for a guy worth building around right now, so I guess they're stuck with him at this point.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby revgen on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:11 pm

Ludachris wrote:On a side note, when was the last time a team won a championship using a dominant big man as their first or second option on offense? I mean truly dependent upon that big man to score points and be the defensive anchor.


Duncan
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Juronimo on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:25 pm

Not a good look Dwight. Not a good look at all. :disagree:

Dwight needs to get his **** together and go out there and play the game. Period.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Armani on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:35 pm

revgen wrote:
Ludachris wrote:On a side note, when was the last time a team won a championship using a dominant big man as their first or second option on offense? I mean truly dependent upon that big man to score points and be the defensive anchor.


Duncan


Hakeem too.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Ludachris on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:07 pm

revgen wrote:
Ludachris wrote:On a side note, when was the last time a team won a championship using a dominant big man as their first or second option on offense? I mean truly dependent upon that big man to score points and be the defensive anchor.


Duncan

In their last championship, it seemed like Duncan was the 2nd or 3rd option. He played well, no doubt, but he wasn't their primary weapon. And they could depend on Parker and Manu much of the time as their first and second options.

I guess my point was, it's been a while since a team won it all and was led by a dominant big man. It's not the norm these days. And though Howard shows flashes of having what it takes, he certainly doesn't have the attitude of the big men that were the team leaders on recent championship teams. Seems risky to build everything around him - which is the complete opposite of what my opinion was just before they signed him. Oh well.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Congo Cash on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:09 pm

^This...

That was like years ago (on both Duncan/Hakeem), the league has changed... Besides, D12 is a stiff compared to those 2... Until he learns a jumper or a post move, the offense will not be centered to him period...

Like abeer3 said, next game just keep passing him the ball, let's see what happens... :man10:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby revgen on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:18 pm

Ludachris wrote:
revgen wrote:
Ludachris wrote:On a side note, when was the last time a team won a championship using a dominant big man as their first or second option on offense? I mean truly dependent upon that big man to score points and be the defensive anchor.


Duncan

In their last championship, it seemed like Duncan was the 2nd or 3rd option. He played well, no doubt, but he wasn't their primary weapon. And they could depend on Parker and Manu much of the time as their first and second options.

I guess my point was, it's been a while since a team won it all and was led by a dominant big man. It's not the norm these days. And though Howard shows flashes of having what it takes, he certainly doesn't have the attitude of the big men that were the team leaders on recent championship teams. Seems risky to build everything around him - which is the complete opposite of what my opinion was just before they signed him. Oh well.


In 2007, maybe. In 2005, he was still a dominant force on both ends and was the guy they ran their offense through.

It's not the norm these days because the quality of big men simply stink. On top of that, the rules now cater to guards (no touch rules) while bigs have to jump through hoops (3 sec call, 5 second call, offball doubling, zones, etc) to get theirs.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby lakers_09tv on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:21 pm

Ludachris wrote:
revgen wrote:
Ludachris wrote:On a side note, when was the last time a team won a championship using a dominant big man as their first or second option on offense? I mean truly dependent upon that big man to score points and be the defensive anchor.


Duncan

In their last championship, it seemed like Duncan was the 2nd or 3rd option. He played well, no doubt, but he wasn't their primary weapon. And they could depend on Parker and Manu much of the time as their first and second options.

I guess my point was, it's been a while since a team won it all and was led by a dominant big man. It's not the norm these days. And though Howard shows flashes of having what it takes, he certainly doesn't have the attitude of the big men that were the team leaders on recent championship teams. Seems risky to build everything around him - which is the complete opposite of what my opinion was just before they signed him. Oh well.

Duncan was the first option until the Finals. He averaged more points/rebounds for the entire playoff run.

Garnett in 2008 was the last one. He the was first option until the 4th quarter.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby venky on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:37 pm

Dwight Howard is a fraud.

Russillo ‏@ryenarussillo
Just went through every LA off possession on Synergy. Dwight had 17 touches, 2 other attempts to get him ball were TO's. 11 touches..


Russillo ‏@ryenarussillo
..ended in something negative, not including missed FT possessions. He said "look at the stat sheet" I did. He's delusional.


Russillo ‏@ryenarussillo
He also had 5 fouls, couldn't set screens last night. It's not that he had a bad game, it's that he takes 0 responsibility for his poor play


So since Dwight Howard is too dumb to get what this guy is saying, it goes like this: STFU Dwight.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby abeer3 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:39 pm

i was waiting for someone to go after the "touches" angle. truth hurts. it's ok to struggle; just own up to it. kobe does. pau and dwight don't.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby thkthebest on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:41 pm

Is everyone forgetting about Dirk? :man3:

Ludachris wrote:In their last championship, it seemed like Duncan was the 2nd or 3rd option. He played well, no doubt, but he wasn't their primary weapon. And they could depend on Parker and Manu much of the time as their first and second options.

I guess my point was, it's been a while since a team won it all and was led by a dominant big man. It's not the norm these days. And though Howard shows flashes of having what it takes, he certainly doesn't have the attitude of the big men that were the team leaders on recent championship teams. Seems risky to build everything around him - which is the complete opposite of what my opinion was just before they signed him. Oh well.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. Jordan dominated the 90s. Bird and Magic domainted the 80s. People weren't going to say that bigs can't lead a championship team. Your big doesn't have to be the #1 option, but you still need an elite frontcourt.

Last year's final was the exception, but they also had arguably the two best players in the league (LeBron and Durant).

Before that, DIrk and Tyson were one of the best frontcourts. Dirk was one of the best offensive bigs in the league and Tyson was one of the best defensive bigs in the league. Lakers before them are self-explanatory. Celtics had Garnett. Spurs had Duncan.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Armani on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:47 pm

Here's your offense, Dwight -

Dwight has been regressing in the post the last two years. In the 2010-11 season, Dwight was scoring 0.93 points per post possession, making 50.6 percent of his shots in the post, and turning the ball over 14.5 percent of the time. Last season as Dwight battled injuries and trade rumors he initiated, those numbers slipped to 0.88 PPP and 49.9 percent, while his turnover rate of improved to 13.6 percent.

This season? Dwight is scoring just 0.78 points per possession in the post, making 48.2 percent of his shots, and turning the ball over an astounding 19.7 percent of the time. One out of every five times you throw the ball into the post with Dwight, he’s turning it over. That can’t be a heavy part of your offense. Kobe probably knows that but begrudgingly still attempts to feed him. This is why the quality of the post possessions you give Dwight is so important.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby LakerFanIam on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:56 pm

^^^ So Dwight turns the ball over 20% of the time that he touches it & shoots 50% from the line.... And he wants the team to get him the ball more often... Okay.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:23 pm

This is why having Phil as a head coach is so important, even if he pawns off the traveling duties on someone else. He developed Shaq into a better player, and Pau into a better player, and even hard-headed Kobe and MJ got better under Phil. Phil and his staff develop players, especially talented players who are willing to work.

Dwight has a ton of talent, but his game is really raw. He needs a coaching staff that helps him grow, who teaches him the little things, like how Pau was taught to keep the ball high when he gets it in the post. And help him develop a better post game, where he can at least get good position.

Maybe when Phil becomes an official part of the family, he can get back into the organization. :man13:
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:36 pm

LakerFanIam wrote:^^^ So Dwight turns the ball over 20% of the time that he touches it & shoots 50% from the line.... And he wants the team to get him the ball more often... Okay.


Add in the fact that out of a post up, I'd say he's hitting between 30-40% on his post moves scoring attempts and you got a pile of hot garbage down there.

But with D12 it's never his fault. Always has, always will be his M.O.
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Re: Dwight Howard Discussion: complaining about his touches

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:44 pm

Whatever happened with Dwight seeking out Kareem on the hardwood to work with him. Oh right....working on fundamentals he should have learned by 5 or 6 years ago is no fun. Let me guess......he never went to the "Big Man Camp" either, like Bynum did? Just an honest guess, don't know. Him complaining about touches is ludicrous. As others have said, when the hell is he ever open with his guy sealed. And if not and he gets the ball and has to work with it, actually putting on some go to moves he has mastered.....oh wait that's not happening either. At least he's proficient at the charity stripe. Oh wait again. Give me the ball. Eff you.
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