Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

7cody wrote:Am I seriously the only one concerned that Dwight takes off his jersey before the game ends? Is there something that I don't know?

Someone please tell me that this just his thing and that he has been doing this since he was a rookie.

I really don't think it's a big deal, he's done it after other games as well. I believe he also doesn't wear the top part of his jersey during shoot-around before the game, just that black shoulder protection stuff he's got on underneath. Maybe the jersey is uncomfortable to wear over that black thing soaked with sweat, who knows.

khmrP wrote:the record isn't sarcastic makes no sense, that is all. READ it and try to make sense, it doesn't

Still?

Ok guy on Clublakers forum: "Our record is no laughing matter."

Back on topic now?

Weezy wrote:

7cody wrote:Am I seriously the only one concerned that Dwight takes off his jersey before the game ends? Is there something that I don't know?

Someone please tell me that this just his thing and that he has been doing this since he was a rookie.

I really don't think it's a big deal, he's done it after other games as well. I believe he also doesn't wear the top part of his jersey during shoot-around before the game, just that black shoulder protection stuff he's got on underneath. Maybe the jersey is uncomfortable to wear over that black thing soaked with sweat, who knows.

It's hard to tell, but it doesn't look like he wants to play. I didn't see him boxing out, calling for the ball, imposing his will. I just kinda saw him going half speed all game.

I guess we won't know for a while, but maybe he doesn't like playing with the Lakers

7cody wrote:

Weezy wrote:

7cody wrote:Am I seriously the only one concerned that Dwight takes off his jersey before the game ends? Is there something that I don't know?

Someone please tell me that this just his thing and that he has been doing this since he was a rookie.

I really don't think it's a big deal, he's done it after other games as well. I believe he also doesn't wear the top part of his jersey during shoot-around before the game, just that black shoulder protection stuff he's got on underneath. Maybe the jersey is uncomfortable to wear over that black thing soaked with sweat, who knows.

It's hard to tell, but it doesn't look like he wants to play. I didn't see him boxing out, calling for the ball, imposing his will. I just kinda saw him going half speed all game.

I guess we won't know for a while, but maybe he doesn't like playing with the Lakers

I thought we were mad at him for trying to call for ball in the post?

7cody wrote:

Weezy wrote:

7cody wrote:Am I seriously the only one concerned that Dwight takes off his jersey before the game ends? Is there something that I don't know?

Someone please tell me that this just his thing and that he has been doing this since he was a rookie.

I really don't think it's a big deal, he's done it after other games as well. I believe he also doesn't wear the top part of his jersey during shoot-around before the game, just that black shoulder protection stuff he's got on underneath. Maybe the jersey is uncomfortable to wear over that black thing soaked with sweat, who knows.

It's hard to tell, but it doesn't look like he wants to play. I didn't see him boxing out, calling for the ball, imposing his will. I just kinda saw him going half speed all game.

I guess we won't know for a while, but maybe he doesn't like playing with the Lakers

I guess you haven't been around here much lately, whether he wants to play right now or not has been discussed quite a bit in this thread for a while now. Whether or not he wants to play is a different issue, I personally just don't think him taking the jersey off means anything one way or the other. His effort on the court, his body language, that is a different story.

khmrP wrote:

7cody wrote:

Weezy wrote:

7cody wrote:Am I seriously the only one concerned that Dwight takes off his jersey before the game ends? Is there something that I don't know?

Someone please tell me that this just his thing and that he has been doing this since he was a rookie.

I really don't think it's a big deal, he's done it after other games as well. I believe he also doesn't wear the top part of his jersey during shoot-around before the game, just that black shoulder protection stuff he's got on underneath. Maybe the jersey is uncomfortable to wear over that black thing soaked with sweat, who knows.

It's hard to tell, but it doesn't look like he wants to play. I didn't see him boxing out, calling for the ball, imposing his will. I just kinda saw him going half speed all game.

I guess we won't know for a while, but maybe he doesn't like playing with the Lakers

I thought we were mad at him for trying to call for ball in the post?

The poor guy just can't win, can he? Maybe it's because he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't He's damned if he asks for the ball, because his post game is complete garbage and he's just going throw up an ugly brick most of the time. He's damned if he doesn't, because he's supposedly a MAX DEAL superstar brought in to help Kobe get a 6th ring. He damn well better want the ball in big moments.

Which is why Dwight Howard is a fraud: He is the worst of both worlds. A whiney primadonna with no game.

khmrP wrote:

7cody wrote:

Weezy wrote:

7cody wrote:Am I seriously the only one concerned that Dwight takes off his jersey before the game ends? Is there something that I don't know?

Someone please tell me that this just his thing and that he has been doing this since he was a rookie.

I really don't think it's a big deal, he's done it after other games as well. I believe he also doesn't wear the top part of his jersey during shoot-around before the game, just that black shoulder protection stuff he's got on underneath. Maybe the jersey is uncomfortable to wear over that black thing soaked with sweat, who knows.

It's hard to tell, but it doesn't look like he wants to play. I didn't see him boxing out, calling for the ball, imposing his will. I just kinda saw him going half speed all game.

I guess we won't know for a while, but maybe he doesn't like playing with the Lakers

I thought we were mad at him for trying to call for ball in the post?

If he wants to be effective in the post then he needs to play PNR, slasher - basically he needs to work with a ballhandler like Nash to set him up for easy and unstoppable looks

Dwight does not have the skills to be a consistent back to the basket scorer in the post - you can't run the offense through him in the post - he can't even score consistently on single coverage

I don't know who the hell taught him to hold the ball so low. Keep it up high, there's a reason why Gasol, who is also an ineffective volume scorer, can at least attempt a shot without getting stripped

Start playing to your strengths. If you ever develop more skill and work on other aspects of the game, then you can use them, but until you develop the needed skills - stop forcing the issue. You're a max player that can't shoot free-throws, has no jump shot, cannot play with you back to the basket and is unable to create his own shot with single coverage on a consistent basis. I say stick with what you do best, dominate the game defensively (which in itself would help us win so many more games...), and work with the ballhandler to get easy shots, look for the lobs, the bounce passes down the lane, hustle in transition for easy points with your superior athleticism to other bigs in the NBA - but please stop embarrassing yourself by getting owned in the paint on a consistent basis, unable to score efficiently on a high volume with single coverage or even able to pull off a shot attempt, and do what you do best...

I remember Howard scoring of the PNR a lot and using outside shooters to spread the floor and set him up for easy lobs. I also remember him dominating the board offensively and averaging probably an easy 8-10 points a game just on putbacks and tip ins

Why won't he do the same for us?

Weezy wrote:

7cody wrote:

Weezy wrote:

7cody wrote:Am I seriously the only one concerned that Dwight takes off his jersey before the game ends? Is there something that I don't know?

Someone please tell me that this just his thing and that he has been doing this since he was a rookie.

I really don't think it's a big deal, he's done it after other games as well. I believe he also doesn't wear the top part of his jersey during shoot-around before the game, just that black shoulder protection stuff he's got on underneath. Maybe the jersey is uncomfortable to wear over that black thing soaked with sweat, who knows.

It's hard to tell, but it doesn't look like he wants to play. I didn't see him boxing out, calling for the ball, imposing his will. I just kinda saw him going half speed all game.

I guess we won't know for a while, but maybe he doesn't like playing with the Lakers

I guess you haven't been around here much lately, whether he wants to play right now or not has been discussed quite a bit in this thread for a while now. Whether or not he wants to play is a different issue, I personally just don't think him taking the jersey off means anything one way or the other. His effort on the court, his body language, that is a different story.

The jersey thing is new to me. I don't know, it bothers me, but not as much as his attitude on the court.

7cody wrote:You're a max player that can't shoot free-throws, has no jump shot, cannot play with you back to the basket and is unable to create his own shot with single coverage on a consistent basis.

Well when you put it that way...

PAY THE MAN!

SpencerHarrison wrote:

7cody wrote:You're a max player that can't shoot free-throws, has no jump shot, cannot play with you back to the basket and is unable to create his own shot with single coverage on a consistent basis.

Well when you put it that way...

PAY THE MAN!

He's worth the effort without the free-throws, jumpshot, and lack of post moves if he can bring back his 3X DPOY effort

edit: meant to say that he's worth the money

7cody wrote:Dwight took his jersey off before the game even ended. Am I looking into this too much or is there something I don't know?

If he doesn't want to impose his will and play with great effort, then we should trade him. If he's truly hurt and unable to play well, then we need to get that surgery and get him prepped to dominate next year.

We aren't winning a chip this year anyway. We need to make the playoffs for a successful season at this point.

I missed that, had dosed by then. He did it again?? That's just rude to the organization. Also seems to show yet again just how much he wants to stay. This is his season from hell. It's ours too. Eff that the F.O. no offense to Mitch effed up making the right choice with Phil when they had the balls to can Brown early in the season. We'd at least be respectable and who knows what might have happened if playing to our strengths as a plan rather than the coach being overridden by his players.

Just to make things clear. Every single team in the NBA would (and will) throw a max deal at Howard.

I would be surprised to see Dwight here next year!

He is trying to entertain people with his laughs instead of his heart his effort to compete!

We are watching basketball game, not circus, Dwight!

You are a basketball player, not a clown crybaby!

kenzo wrote:Just to make things clear. Every single team in the NBA would (and will) throw a max deal at Howard.

we have some GMS on this board only gona offer $10 maybe $12mill if Howard shows a bit more effort

kenzo wrote:Just to make things clear. Every single team in the NBA would (and will) throw a max deal at Howard.

Doesn't mean he's worth it, that's just what big names get. Howard certainly earned his big name and the title of 'star' in Orlando, but he hasn't here, and more is expected of you here. I can even say that he was worth the max before this new CBA, but in the new NBA, where teams can afford to only have maybe 2 max players at one time, I'm sorry he's not worth that anymore. If LeBron is worth 15 mil, Howard isn't worth 20, and yes I realize he took less to play in Miami, but still.

Overall, Dwight isn't as talented as some of the other superstars in this league, but, when healthy, he is so much better than the other Cs in this league, he warrants the max, IMHO. A healthy Dwight guarantees that you will massively outproduce basically any team in the league at the C position. He also led a team that had Nelson-Hedo-Lewis in the lineup to ELITE defensive efficiencies. He just hasn't been the same player in L.A. and I am more than willing to chalk that up to health. Next year, regardless of where he ends up, his true impact will be on full display.

Is sayin Howard is much better than all other centers really saying much though? I don't think he warrants the max because he's the best of a mediocre bunch, the best at his position. Center doesn't even seem to be an important position in winning a title anymore. And as for his health holding him back, how do we know he will ever go back to what he was health wise? It's been what, 10 months since his back surgery? If he still feels the effects as bad as he says he does how do we know that ever goes away, that he ever gets his old athleticism back? And do you really want to go into the future with a 27 year old who's game is THAT based on athleticism in the first place? We get maybe 3 years then he really starts to decline, then what?

L4L wrote:Overall, Dwight isn't as talented as some of the other superstars in this league, but, when healthy, he is so much better than the other Cs in this league, he warrants the max, IMHO. A healthy Dwight guarantees that you will massively outproduce basically any team in the league at the C position. He also led a team that had Nelson-Hedo-Lewis in the lineup to ELITE defensive efficiencies. He just hasn't been the same player in L.A. and I am more than willing to chalk that up to health. Next year, regardless of where he ends up, his true impact will be on full display.

^You're assuming that he's going to return from his injuries and be the same player he used to be?

It's been 4 months already since he's been cleared for basketball related activities (he was cleared in October) and he's still telling reporters that he's feeling tingling in his legs everytime he sits down in a chair.

D12 may have to come to a realization that his back may never be what it used to be. He needs to add fundamentals to his game. Nash has played with a bad back for years, yet manages to be competitive by relying on fundamentals. D12 has yet to show the commitment in the 9 years he's played in the league to improving his fundamentals at all.

revgen wrote:^You're assuming that he's going to return from his injuries and be the same player he used to be?

It's been 5 months already since he's been cleared for basketball related activities (he was cleared in October) and he's still telling reporters that he's feeling tingling in his legs everytime he sits down in a chair.

I think given an entire off-season to workout and regain some of his former physical prowess, he'll be more or less the same player, yes.

Weezy wrote:Is sayin Howard is much better than all other centers really saying much though? I don't think he warrants the max because he's the best of a mediocre bunch, the best at his position. Center doesn't even seem to be an important position in winning a title anymore. And as for his health holding him back, how do we know he will ever go back to what he was health wise? It's been what, 10 months since his back surgery? If he still feels the effects as bad as he says he does how do we know that ever goes away, that he ever gets his old athleticism back? And do you really want to go into the future with a 27 year old who's game is THAT based on athleticism in the first place? We get maybe 3 years then he really starts to decline, then what?

I think it is. The current climate is what it is. At the end of the day, what matters more than how good an individual player is is how much better he is than the person he is playing. This is one reason why you constantly hear analysts yapping about matchups. Dwight greatly outproduces everyone at his position besides Andrew Bynum.

Defense will always be important to winning titles. I think Dwight will be fine. Length never declines. As long as he keeps his weight in check, he can always be relatively quick. Look at KG's impact on the defensive end. As his body waned, the impact remained. Consider what Dwight is doing this year at less than 100% in the first place. It is a sneak peak at what he'd be capable of as his athleticism declined.

There are less than 5 players in the league who can impact a game as much as a healthy Dwight Howard. That is enough to give him a max, IMHO. Even if you only get three years, a three year window isn't exactly short. Almost no one gets a 10+ year window.

You make good points as always, even if I don't fully agree. I guess I've just been spoiled by Kobe and the huge window he's given us, you're right, almost nobody gets 10+ years. Still my concerns remain, Dwight isn't that long, or even THAT tall, he's always relied on athleticism to make that not matter. He's also no KG, not as smart, and IMO not as focused, doesn't play with that edge and passion that KG does that has allowed him to keep going at a high level like Kobe. Also if this is a preview of Dwight declined, consider me unimpressed, little to no offensive game when he's not spoon fed, defense and effort when he feels like it. I believe with an offseason off to get right he could regain his old strength, but I don't know about everything else, and he's not going to have that anyway considering he'll be needing surgery. I'd almost prefer he call it a season and get it now so he CAN come back 100%, we're a long shot to make the playoffs even with him.

Some of the same things were said about Bron (relies on athleticism, doesn't have a jumpshot, doesn't play D, quits...). I'm not saying Dwight = Bron but Howard can be great.

Tired to see his face in purple and gold...

Howard's not worth 20M. Not saying that's not what he's gonna get, or that we should offer him less, because I don't know if we have many alternatives. No only has he not earned to be a 20M player as a Laker (not even close), I'm not so sure he's gonna be close to the guy he was in Orlando, and therefore he's not gonna be worth it ever again. We'll see what happens.

Lakers should give him until next season deadline to become himself again ( I highly doubt it as back pbs never completely go away ) and if he hasn't made any significant progress , I'm sure we could find a trade partner ... assuming he's staying ... I doubt our FO would do that though too

Stephen A. Smith is saying Dwight wants out of L.A., and that Dwight told Rudy Gay he's going to Brooklyn.

"Not happy being in L.A., not happy playing alongside Kobe."

Here's the podcast...go to about the 33:47 mark. http://espn.go.com/espnradio/newyork/play?id=8948652

Transcript is HERE.

Take it for what it's worth.