D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:21 am

therealdeal wrote:
Finwë wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I don't know if I saw someone not having enthusiasm for the game. I think he works really hard. But when he doesn't get a shot attempt in the entire half, I don't blame him for getting frustrated.

Doc Brown's post is a reply to this line of thinking. Was he frustrated because he didn't get touches, or did he not get touches because he wasn't working for them in any noticeable way?
That's the lack of enthusiasm or effort we were talking about, people who really want the ball put themselves in positions to get it, go set hard screens, roll hard to the basket, try for offensive rebounds, seal their man, ask for it consistently. Was Howard doing any of that?

No, but he has been. I think he's already just frustrated in general that he's not getting enough touches. But when he gets SOME he works really hard (or has lately). Last night he didn't get ANY so he stopped doing the little things that he was doing before.

I'm with JSM, this is on coaching. We're not featuring Dwight enough right now. I'm not saying we need to feature him a lot, but something is better than nothing. D'Antoni has been better since he cut down the rotations, but he's missing this one for sure. When Dwight runs the floor, he's got to be rewarded. He does it a few times a game and doesn't even get a look. That's not okay.


Most of it falls on coaching. Not that Dwight isn't blameless in all of this but his lack of touches on the block is from D'Antoni's coaching philosophy, IMO. We've historically had two of the greatest big men in Kareem & Shaq. However, we've also had two historically great coaches who knew how to use them effectively in Phil & Riley.

We have been playing better, but I just don't think we can go forward with Dwight only getting 1 shot in the 2nd half. D'Antoni wants a guy like Tyson Chandler; defend and rebound, set hard screens, and doesn't complain about touches. Go and study the Triangle and look how effectively we got Shaq the ball; albeit, we had better post entry passers but the point remains that we had great ball movement & played inside-out.

Simply put, MDA just doesn't know how to use Dwight.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Chillbongo on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:35 am

Seriously, people still talking about shot attempts?

Look, the dude SHOULD get more than 7 attempts, but what about the 7 attempts he did get?

1-7....that's just disgusting :hurl:

I don't even know what the problem is anymore. MDA, injuries, our ball movement - but this clearly isn't working out. If he can put up 20/12 one day, he should be able to do it again. If he can't, he's overrated.

The Dwight apologists need to stop...at this rate if we get the dude 21 looks he's only going to make 3.

Hardly efficient offense. And I'm only talking about offense.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Coach Chris on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:43 am

Howard is getting the touches he deserves, his own play is the limiting factor. I don't buy the coaching excuse, I think that MDA would prefer an open 2-footer over an open 20-footer 100 times out of 100. When he made the comment that the straight post dump was an ineffecient play, that seemed to transfer to many fan's brains as him saying he doesn't like post play. Those two ideas aren't the same. If you have prime Shaq, then a straight post dump makes sense. Shaq was a master at sealing his man, especially on the re-post. Howard isn't there. In most of his biggest offensive games this season, he was moving in the post and using his strengths. When he doesn't, he isn't involved as much. As some have said, you see guys like Clark and Jamison diving in the lane, so it is something that is obviously in the game plan. Dwight sometimes does, sometimes doesn't. Why I have no idea, but I don't blame MDA or his teammates for the games that he doesn't.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:58 am

Doc Brown wrote:I'm not saying he should be disruptive, but the more and more I watch him, I see that he just doesn't know how to seal his man or duck in for easy buckets. Even if the play isn't called for him, he doesn't have the awareness or the chemistry with his teammates to know when he should do that.

Clark and Jamison get easy buckets off the same play we run with Kobe getting the ball on the wing/post area because they know when to cut and move. Dwight doesn't know how to do that, so he just looks lost when he isn't in a straight up post up. He's athletic enough and strong enough to be able to get a lot of easy looks, he just doesn't work to get those looks.

No man he's been sealing great. That dunk on Josh Smith was because Dwight sealed his man. Kobe has been attacking because Dwight seals well around the rim. The difference is Dwight usually gets rewarded for that, yesterday he wasn't getting rewarded.

Dwight doesn't really know how to cut yet with Kobe, that's true. But that took Bynum 2-3 years to perfect. Howard doesn't have that yet.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby JGC on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:08 pm

Chillbongo wrote:Seriously, people still talking about shot attempts?

Look, the dude SHOULD get more than 7 attempts, but what about the 7 attempts he did get?

1-7....that's just disgusting :hurl:

I don't even know what the problem is anymore. MDA, injuries, our ball movement - but this clearly isn't working out. If he can put up 20/12 one day, he should be able to do it again. If he can't, he's overrated.

The Dwight apologists need to stop...at this rate if we get the dude 21 looks he's only going to make 3.

Hardly efficient offense. And I'm only talking about offense.


Were you wishing that Nash wouldn't get more looks too when he was 0-5?
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Chillbongo on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:25 pm

therealdeal wrote:No man he's been sealing great. That dunk on Josh Smith was because Dwight sealed his man. Kobe has been attacking because Dwight seals well around the rim. The difference is Dwight usually gets rewarded for that, yesterday he wasn't getting rewarded.

Dwight doesn't really know how to cut yet with Kobe, that's true. But that took Bynum 2-3 years to perfect. Howard doesn't have that yet.

I'll admit that he has been effective at sealing his man, and that is part of the reason Kobe has been able to get to the basket like he has.

But that to me is part of the larger issue, Dwight's offensive game is severely limited....and when not at 100% he really struggles. I admit there is almost no other 2-way player putting up the numbers he puts up - but we should be able to rely on him for offense in key moments - but we cant and IMO that hurts the team the most.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Tobias Funke on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:26 pm

I didnt want to seem like I was piling on MDA since I was one of the few who were still irate about his hiring even when most had moved on, but I have to ask.....why do we have an offensive-minded coach if Dwight's basically gonna get worse offensively as the season goes along?

Kobe and Nash (and do a lesser extend Pau) they've mastered the game skill-wise on offense, and they're really just limited by being older and less athletic and how much the coach reigns them in creatively. Metta is just a lost cause on offense IMO. Jamison and Co. are all really just doing what they were brought in to do when they actually get minutes.....hustle, make some buckets and try not to get run off the court when the starters are out. Clark is the break out star of the bunch it looks like, but getting decent minutes for the first time kinda helps.

Obviously they're entertaining players, but if we plan on not getting swept in the event that we do make the playoffs, then riding in on Kobe and Nash's backs is about as good a plan as fixing a leak with duct tape. The real solution is to get the team to play defense, but with MDA as our coach thats not realistic, so we have to try and find a way to get Dwight going on offense, atleast to get players in foul trouble.

Dwight's obviously not an offensive mastermind and I doubt even he would claim that he is, so its up to the coach to come up with a solid plan to get him going, even if he starts slow. Unless he wants to hand Kobe and Nash the clipboard and tell them to solve that riddle as well.

And no Im not making any excuses for Dwight, period, and I could go on for an hour about his hands of stone alone. But cmon, Dwight was Dantoni's biggest opportunity to make an imprint and he's failed big time.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:27 pm

Well I think it's an eye opener for Dwight and the main reason he's going to go back to work with Hakeem this summer.

His post game is so limited he's been really ineffective this season without his strength and athleticism. I think this summer not only will he dedicate himself to regaining his former strength, but to developing more in the post.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Chillbongo on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:36 pm

Yeah, and I hope he becomes a student of the game and takes time to learn the intricacies and simple things.

Putting a few classic post moves to use is just a matter of muscle memory. If he's injured fine, he'll get a pass for this season only, but there's no excuse for him not to have a drop step going both ways, mixed in with fakes and some dream shakes to the basket.

He's a good passer and he plays off ball pretty well. I don't know if it's him or MDA like Coach Chris, but he really needs to execute those off-ball habits all the time. He's the supposed #2, alpha in the making of this team. We can't have him be passive out there on offense. I like what he's been doing on defense however....at least on the boards.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:50 pm

therealdeal wrote:I don't know if I saw someone not having enthusiasm for the game. I think he works really hard. But when he doesn't get a shot attempt in the entire half, I don't blame him for getting frustrated.


Im going to use this to disagree and make the point I had planned on making a while ago.

Dwight doesn't get the ball because of Dwight. Here is what is wrong with Dwight on offense:

1. Sealing- Dwight is absolutely horrible at sealing his man properly. He gets into low position with a man on his hip but he doesn't extend his arms to give him the seperation he needs. What happens? He gets the ball and the defender easily rips him or is able to hold his arm down so Dwight has an ugly shot. There was one play two games ago where Dwight had his man under the basket, got the ball and could do nothing with it. The first thing I though about was Shaq having the same deep seal on his man which would of resulted in the defender getting Shaqnutts in his grill. Dwight, however, kept his arms close and allowed the defender to rotate on him taking away Dwights advantage.

2. Multiple efforts- Kobe and MWP show how you get post position on defenders. Dwight gets in deep but never actually sets up more than once. It was something Drew finally learned 2 seasons ago. Dwight hasn't learned it yet. Sometimes he has good position but the guys don't see him for whatever reason. When that happens he has to reestablish post position with that arm out high demanding the ball. He doesn't do it. In fact, because of he doesn't get his man on his hip when he finally gets the ball its a turnover or missed free throws.

3. Soft Picks- Dwight almost never sets a good pick. He hedges his picks which allows teams to not only continue playing him but also the guard. In that we lose our advantage. Dwight has to learn to set solid hard picks which will open up the penetration for the guards. It will also help him when he slips the pick and rolls hard. Additionally he doesn't set the pick to free the guard he sets it to free himself which is why the picks are never strong. He has improved here but still misses more than he makes.

4. Passing- Two players on the team have nearly no passing ability. The first is MWP who has been called the blackhole on the team. The second is Dwight who gets the ball and is looking to do one of his signiture post moves that don't work often enough. He needs to learn to post and re-post using the two-man game as well as looking for guys on the wings when he is working in the box and the double team comes. If he learns to pass it will give him more space to work as teams can't just camp in the paint on him.

5. Kwame-itus- He needs to SLOW THE F DOWN. I swear 90% of his misses is because once he goes to his move it is like he goes in at 140% speed. His hands have to be ready and his touch has to be purposeful. Right now when I see him on the box I just see a guy hoping the ball drops in. WHen he slows down he is able to operate better and visualize the rest of the guys.

6. Free throws- He has to make his freethrows. In several games we have lost because a team sent Dwight to the line 3 or 4 straight times where he missed them all. On the other end they get a bucket. We have gone down by 2 to down by 10 in no time because we can't cash in at the line. His form is much better but still a team can't fight that type of let down every game.

ok. Im done for now. lol
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Vasashi17 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:55 pm

Tobias Funke wrote:I didnt want to seem like I was piling on MDA since I was one of the few who were still irate about his hiring even when most had moved on, but I have to ask.....why do we have an offensive-minded coach if Dwight's basically gonna get worse offensively as the season goes along?

Kobe and Nash (and do a lesser extend Pau) they've mastered the game skill-wise on offense, and they're really just limited by being older and less athletic and how much the coach reigns them in creatively. Metta is just a lost cause on offense IMO. Jamison and Co. are all really just doing what they were brought in to do when they actually get minutes.....hustle, make some buckets and try not to get run off the court when the starters are out. Clark is the break out star of the bunch it looks like, but getting decent minutes for the first time kinda helps.

Obviously they're entertaining players, but if we plan on not getting swept in the event that we do make the playoffs, then riding in on Kobe and Nash's backs is about as good a plan as fixing a leak with duct tape. The real solution is to get the team to play defense, but with MDA as our coach thats not realistic, so we have to try and find a way to get Dwight going on offense, atleast to get players in foul trouble.

Dwight's obviously not an offensive mastermind and I doubt even he would claim that he is, so its up to the coach to come up with a solid plan to get him going, even if he starts slow. Unless he wants to hand Kobe and Nash the clipboard and tell them to solve that riddle as well.

And no Im not making any excuses for Dwight, period, and I could go on for an hour about his hands of stone alone. But cmon, Dwight was Dantoni's biggest opportunity to make an imprint and he's failed big time.


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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:04 pm

Jameer Nelson on D12's comments about the Magic team...

"At some point, when are you gonna, as a man, when are you going to take ownership and stay out of the media in a professional manner?" Nelson said, according to Brian Schmitz of the Orlando Sentinel.

"I would be less of a man to comment on certain things that people comment on about me and my teammates."
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby last stand on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:25 pm

So I see jameer wanted to play smush Parker and comment on it
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:04 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
Im going to use this to disagree and make the point I had planned on making a while ago.

Dwight doesn't get the ball because of Dwight. Here is what is wrong with Dwight on offense:

1. Sealing- Dwight is absolutely horrible at sealing his man properly. He gets into low position with a man on his hip but he doesn't extend his arms to give him the seperation he needs. What happens? He gets the ball and the defender easily rips him or is able to hold his arm down so Dwight has an ugly shot. There was one play two games ago where Dwight had his man under the basket, got the ball and could do nothing with it. The first thing I though about was Shaq having the same deep seal on his man which would of resulted in the defender getting Shaqnutts in his grill. Dwight, however, kept his arms close and allowed the defender to rotate on him taking away Dwights advantage.

2. Multiple efforts- Kobe and MWP show how you get post position on defenders. Dwight gets in deep but never actually sets up more than once. It was something Drew finally learned 2 seasons ago. Dwight hasn't learned it yet. Sometimes he has good position but the guys don't see him for whatever reason. When that happens he has to reestablish post position with that arm out high demanding the ball. He doesn't do it. In fact, because of he doesn't get his man on his hip when he finally gets the ball its a turnover or missed free throws.

3. Soft Picks- Dwight almost never sets a good pick. He hedges his picks which allows teams to not only continue playing him but also the guard. In that we lose our advantage. Dwight has to learn to set solid hard picks which will open up the penetration for the guards. It will also help him when he slips the pick and rolls hard. Additionally he doesn't set the pick to free the guard he sets it to free himself which is why the picks are never strong. He has improved here but still misses more than he makes.

4. Passing- Two players on the team have nearly no passing ability. The first is MWP who has been called the blackhole on the team. The second is Dwight who gets the ball and is looking to do one of his signiture post moves that don't work often enough. He needs to learn to post and re-post using the two-man game as well as looking for guys on the wings when he is working in the box and the double team comes. If he learns to pass it will give him more space to work as teams can't just camp in the paint on him.

5. Kwame-itus- He needs to SLOW THE F DOWN. I swear 90% of his misses is because once he goes to his move it is like he goes in at 140% speed. His hands have to be ready and his touch has to be purposeful. Right now when I see him on the box I just see a guy hoping the ball drops in. WHen he slows down he is able to operate better and visualize the rest of the guys.

6. Free throws- He has to make his freethrows. In several games we have lost because a team sent Dwight to the line 3 or 4 straight times where he missed them all. On the other end they get a bucket. We have gone down by 2 to down by 10 in no time because we can't cash in at the line. His form is much better but still a team can't fight that type of let down every game.

ok. Im done for now. lol

I disagree on sealing. I think he does a great job of sealing his man when he wants to, we've seen it whenever Kobe comes down the floor and dunks the ball. That Josh Smith posterization happened because Kobe drove past Josh and Dwight sealed the help from getting to him. He doesn't do it every play, but he can do it and has done it.

I think he has been setting much better screens lately. Nash has been getting absolutely WIDE open looks and so has Kobe. Earlier in the season his picks looked awful. Lately he's done a great job. The next step is the roll. He sets great screens but he's not gotten the rhythm yet on when/where to roll with these guys.

He's an alright passer. Not great, but not that bad either.

Everything else I agree with and I think is partially explained by his injuries. Second efforts and weak hands especially.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby JSM on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:41 pm

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
Rashard Lewis responded to Howard: "It's disrespectful more than anything. We helped Dwight become the player he was." (via @MagicInsider)


Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
Shard on Dwight: "Its just strange. If anything he should be focused on playing for the Lakers and making the playoffs." (via @MagicInsider)
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Coach Chris on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:01 pm

So now we can count the next Orlando game as a loss?
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:28 pm

therealdeal wrote:
I disagree on sealing. I think he does a great job of sealing his man when he wants to, we've seen it whenever Kobe comes down the floor and dunks the ball. That Josh Smith posterization happened because Kobe drove past Josh and Dwight sealed the help from getting to him. He doesn't do it every play, but he can do it and has done it.

I think he has been setting much better screens lately. Nash has been getting absolutely WIDE open looks and so has Kobe. Earlier in the season his picks looked awful. Lately he's done a great job. The next step is the roll. He sets great screens but he's not gotten the rhythm yet on when/where to roll with these guys.

He's an alright passer. Not great, but not that bad either.

Everything else I agree with and I think is partially explained by his injuries. Second efforts and weak hands especially.

I don't think you are following what I mean by "sealing" his man. I'm not talking about setting screens like he did intentionally or unintentionally for Kobe's Postering of Josh. I am solely talking about when Dwight seals his man waiting on the ball. He doesn't use his hips and butt to keep his man off of him. His biggerst complaints this year are he is being held in the paint. Part of that problem is what I described in that he doesn't create the right space. Stu mentions it all the time about him not using his "butt". He really needs to learn the post and repost positioning that Shaq and Drew (last couple of years) use. It would settle a ton of his post entry issues.

As far as the screens I agree, and even noted, that he is setting them much better. However, he is still setting more soft screens than solid ones. He has to do that before he can do anything else. Timing comes from freeing up the gaurd and forcing the team to either switch or trail. When he sets week ones it effects his overall effeciency in my opinion. He still has a ways to go with this.

I have yet to really see him make any real passes out of the post. He can make basic passes but the ones I am talking about (post and re-post or cutter types) he is lacking. His lack of passing skills is why once he gets the ball teams just collapse on him. They aren't afraid of him hitting the open man, making the shot or making the free throws if they foul him. Just like the screens if he learns to mix up that pass/shoot (Kobe haters favorite statement) he will open the lane up for himself and get more quality touches.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby borri on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:31 pm

JSM wrote:
Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
Rashard Lewis responded to Howard: "It's disrespectful more than anything. We helped Dwight become the player he was." (via @MagicInsider)


Shard is 100% correct. All those shooters that ORL had made D12 is the player he was. Now that D12 doesn't have that spacing, we can now see how rudimentary his post skills are.

I for one was fooled.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby charvin on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:39 pm

I don't agree with him saying this comment, especially with the timing of it, but it goes both ways. D12 made the team look better than it was also. No D12 to attract double teams, no open 3-pointer for you!

borri wrote:
JSM wrote:
Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
Rashard Lewis responded to Howard: "It's disrespectful more than anything. We helped Dwight become the player he was." (via @MagicInsider)


Shard is 100% correct. All those shooters that ORL had made D12 is the player he was. Now that D12 doesn't have that spacing, we can now see how rudimentary his post skills are.

I for one was fooled.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:41 pm

John Denton ‏@JohnDenton555
Rashard on D12's return to Orlando on Tues: "Oh, I’ll be watching. I’ll be glued to the TV. I still feel like there’s a piece of Orl in me."

Retweeted by Alex Kennedy
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16 mins Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
It's crazy how far Dwight Howard has fallen. One Western Conference executive recently told me he wouldn't touch Howard with a 10-foot pole.
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29 mins Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
By the way, notice that Rashard Lewis said they helped Dwight Howard "become the player he WAS." Not "become the player he is." #burn
Expand

31 mins Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
For those who missed Dwight Howard's comments, he said: "My team in Orlando was a team full of people that nobody wanted."
Expand

32 mins Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
Rashard: "We made a good run. Hell, look at those banners hanging in the stands. They don’t say Dwight Howard on them." (via @MagicInsider)
Expand

36 mins Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
Shard on Dwight: "Its just strange. If anything he should be focused on playing for the Lakers and making the playoffs." (via @MagicInsider)
Expand

38 mins Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
Rashard Lewis responded to Howard: "It's disrespectful more than anything. We helped Dwight become the player he was." (via @MagicInsider)
Expand

39 mins Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
I talked to a few of Dwight Howard's former Orlando Magic teammates last night. They chose not to comment on his quote, but weren't pleased.
Expand
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:51 pm

I know he's having a disappointing season, but shut up and be a professional. All this yakking is hurting his image. Even more.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Weezy on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:52 pm

Ouch. Is it possible Dwight is the most disliked NBA player at the moment ?
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Balance&Options24 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:57 pm

Weezy wrote:Ouch. Is it possible Dwight is the most disliked NBA player at the moment ?



I believe so, it's worst than post decision Lebron.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby D.B. Cooper on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:57 pm

Can Dwight just shut up and just focus on the Lakers and his next opponent.
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: C.L

Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby last stand on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:58 pm

borri wrote:
JSM wrote:
Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
Rashard Lewis responded to Howard: "It's disrespectful more than anything. We helped Dwight become the player he was." (via @MagicInsider)


Shard is 100% correct. All those shooters that ORL had made D12 is the player he was. Now that D12 doesn't have that spacing, we can now see how rudimentary his post skills are.

I for one was fooled.


or its a loss in athleticism considering he wasn't even supposed to be on the court until january like mitch, dwight, and stephen A smith have all said
everyone has their top 10 lists of women heres mine

1. emma watson
2. Natalie Portman
3. Mila Kunis
4. Emma Stone
5. Megan Fox
6. jessica biel
7. Teresa Palmer
8. Katy Perry
9. jessica alba
10. Olivia Wilde
last stand

 
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Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:43 pm

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