D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby The Rock on Tue May 07, 2013 1:37 pm

Does he really understand all this LOL this is the same guy who opted in at Orlando when he could've gotten himself free and went to the Nets to pair up with Deron Williams. Too much thinking involved with going to HOU lol just stay here
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby vaitimeri on Tue May 07, 2013 1:42 pm

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:I don't care what the Rockets have done in the past and present but anyone with a brain knows they are the dark-horse team to steal away Howard from the Lakers... and maybe Dallas or Cleveland...


Cleveland? Just stop man, please, its annoying.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Tue May 07, 2013 1:44 pm

How is it annoying? even one of the main-stream articles mentioned Cleveland as a possible destination for Howard, and it makes sense if you look at it clearly.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Tue May 07, 2013 2:11 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
The Lakers will have to rebuild from the ground up under the new CBA...no guarantees that they can build a winning team around him.....


there are no guarantees anywhere. westbrook's and rose's injuries are great reminders for people thinking about young cores and the likelihood of winning a title.

Adidas will most likely give him a similar lifetime contract to D-Roses and the amount of it will depend on his overall marketability.... City is a large part but also is being in the Playoffs and finals keep him in public view longer...


so everyone really thinks that the lakers are going to be a perennial lotto team with dwight in the fold? they had a nightmare season last year and still made the playoffs, ahead of mighty houston's young hot newness.

Go to a team with a core under contract and a "known" situation.....


known mediocrity, with little chance at improving after signing howard.

Finally..... Taxes!. Texas has no income tax. CA has about 13% for someone in his category. That's $2,600,000 on a 20M/Yr salary....


tax difference only applies to home games, so it's half that, i believe.

I'm sure all of that will play into his final decision. Don't discount the taxes aspect.... even if Adidas gives him a bigger contract in LA the taxes may negate a large part of it. Also, taxes on accumulated wealth (investments) are at play here. If he's making big money on invested past earnings he could be doubling that tax bill or more.....


i don't know what the adidas difference is, but i do know that to buy all of this logic, you have to accept two premises that i don't:

1. that the extra guaranteed year means nothing. dwight will be 32 and his game is predicated on athleticism. how much of that cash can he recover? what if he injures his back again?

2. that the lakers are going to be bad for a few years. don't buy this, either. especially if howard stays. if harden is such a big draw to houston, then howard would be a huge draw to the lakers next summer.

the only strong counters i'll grant are: a) houston with howard would be better than la with howard next year and b) howard's decision making has been super shaky in the past, which means logic may get thrown out the window.

but all logic, on and off court, indicates to me that howard will stay in la.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Center Court on Tue May 07, 2013 2:59 pm

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:Center Point -- you may have a point that no team is favored to land DH; but I bet most of the teams besides the Lakers actually care to make there roster better. the Lakers seem content in standing-pat... and having the likes of Meeks/Sacre/Clark be the savior......... YAWNNNNNN


None of those guys were ever pitted to be saviors. Get real.

we built a core of Kobe, Dwight, Pau, Nash, Jamison, Artest, Blake. Those were the guys who we surrounded Dwight with. It did not work. But Sacre was end of bench fodder, Meeks got played more than he should have due to injuries, and Clark made the most of an opportunity.

I'm still saying that a core of Kobe/Dwight/Nash/Pau/Hill can win a ring, but everything needs a MAJOR overhaul.

A 6th man level guard/PG who is young and can defend
A starting small forward to stay in front of other SF's and hit shots
Young energy players
Shooters
Defensive assistant

our tools are limited. We're stuck in a tough position but by no means are we standing pat. That is a dumb statement. But really, how much can you accomplish with no great trade pieces, no picks, no cap room, and a horrible CBA which bends us over?
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby JSM on Tue May 07, 2013 6:19 pm

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I think next year D12 will be the best center in the league. He takes so much abuse. The centers would not have a chance if calls were made.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby JSM on Tue May 07, 2013 6:24 pm

Sam Amico of Fox Sports wrote:With eight expiring contracts and a general manager hired precisely for these situations, the Atlanta Hawks are convinced they can make a major offseason overhaul.

And their No. 1 target, say multiple NBA executives, is none other than the offseason’s biggest prize: Los Angeles Lakers center Dwight Howard.

Howard’s contract is expiring after one forgettable year in LA -- a year that began in disarray and ended in disappointment following a first-round playoff sweep to the San Antonio Spurs.

While the Lakers are hoping to give the key members of their current cast another season, Hawks GM Danny Ferry believes this is the summer that could change the course of his franchise.

Granted, it won’t be easy for anyone to pry Howard away from the Lakers, considering he can sign a maximum contract with them and nobody else. But the Hawks are optimistic a chance to return to his hometown and the uncertainty surrounding the Lakers will cause Howard to pause and give them serious consideration, league executives say.

Ferry and the Hawks certainly possess the financial wiggle room. Along with the expiring deal of Josh Smith ($13.2 million), the contracts of Devin Harris, Zaza Pachulia, Kyle Korver, Johan Petro, Dahntay Jones, Anthony Tolliver and Shelvin Mack are also coming off the books.

The Hawks also hold team options on the contracts of DeShawn Stevenson and rookie Mike Scott, and there’s no indication the team will pick up either.

In other words, not only could the Hawks sign Howard, but they could pursue another star to complement Howard and returning veteran Al Horford. They are also expected to be active once the trading season heats up around the time of the draft in late June.

On top of all this, the contract of Hawks coach Larry Drew is expiring, opening the door for Ferry to handpick Drew’s predecessor should Ferry decide to go that route. Most sources believe that’s exactly what Ferry will do.

While some inside league circles are convinced Howard will take the max deal from the Lakers, many seem to think it’s no sure thing.

Kobe Bryant is coming off Achilles tendon surgery and turns 35 years old in August. The Lakers’ other top players, Paul Gasol and Metta World Peace, will each be 33 at the start of next season, and point guard Steve Nash is 39.

That makes all tough to trade when the idea is receiving equal or increased value in return -- and could mean the Lakers might soon enter a rebuilding phase, even with Howard.

These are all possible selling points for Ferry when he and Howard can finally engage in conversation, executives indicated, and points that could sway Howard’s potential decision to leave LA.

Other teams, such as the Houston Rockets and Phoenix Suns, are expected to extend offers to Howard once free agency begins -- but executives feel no one other than the Lakers and the Hawks stands much of a chance to land him.

Howard, 27, is an Atlanta native and played his high school ball at Southwest Christian Academy, from where the Orlando Magic selected him with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2004 NBA draft.

He spent the first eight years of his career with the Magic before being traded to the Lakers last August. His father is the athletic director at Southwest Christian Academy and a Georgia state trooper.

Howard averaged 17.1 points and 12.4 rebounds in 76 games with the Lakers this past season.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby therealdeal on Tue May 07, 2013 6:48 pm

Dwight isn't leaving LA to play basketball in America's poophole sports city- Atlanta.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby JSM on Tue May 07, 2013 7:11 pm

Mark Medina of the LA Daily News wrote:This is the second in a series grading the Lakers’ efforts in the 2012-13 season.

Player: Dwight Howard, Lakers center

How he performed: 17 points on 57.8 percent shooting and 12.4 rebounds per game.

The Good: Howard’s mere return to the lineup in mid October established two things. The Lakers immediately received more on their return in Howard than they ever would with Andrew Bynum, who missed the entire 2012-13 season with the Philadelphia 76ers because of persistent knee injuries. This also showed that beneath Howard’s charismatic persona lies a player willing to put in enough work to return four or five months ahead of schedule. So even if Howard’s points and league-leading rebounds still marked his lowest numbers since the 2006-07 season, it’s necessary to cut plenty of slack for Howard.

Nursing pain stemmed from offseason back surgery, Howard lacked the timing, explosiveness and conditioning that made him a three-time NBA Defensive player of the year in eight seasons with the Orlando Magic. He could’ve sat out more than six games because of a torn labrum in his right shoulder, but Howard opted to play through it even if he suffered repeated whacks to it every day.

Health issues aside, Howard also showed a willingness to grow. Over All-Star weekend, Howard put more work into his conditioning and eliminated sugar out of his diet in hopes to compensate for his injury issues. Howard wore a Posture Shirt, a protective undershirt manufactured by Santa Ana-based company Alignmed that balanced his muscle and shoulder joints together. He stopped complaining about the Lakers’ inconsistency in featuring him on offense. Howard continued stressing the need to communicate on defense, while providing positive reinforcements to his teammates.

Even with the frustrations he had with Kobe Bryant’s high expectations, Howard showed genuine interesting in improving that relationship by visiting him in his Newport Beach residence shortly after suffering his season-ending torn left Achilles’ tendon. Add all those ingredients up, and Howard’s 21.6 points through seven games in April marked his highest output all season.

The Bad: Plenty of Howard’s on-court criticism seemed grossly unfair considering most of his struggles centered on his aforementioned injuries. But Howard epitomized in the Lakers’ first-round series sweep to the San Antonio Spurs that there remains tactical and emotional adjustments he failed to make. Lacking versatility to his post game, Howard allowed opposing players to consistently front him inside.

Their persistent physical play rattled him so much that he averaged 3.8 fouls in the regular season and 4.2 fouls in the playoffs. There remained too many examples where frustration got the best of Howard, whether it was yelling at Steve Nash for a botched pass, a teammate on a failed defensive rotation or to the official over a silent whistle. That lack of focus also carried over to the foul line where he shot 49.2 percent from the line. Howard had the right intentions. But as evidenced by his Game 4 ejection against San Antonio, it’s clear Howard couldn’t handle plenty of the added pressure and scrutiny in becoming the cornerstone of the Lakers’ future.

Grade: B

Assuming Howard resigns with the Lakers, he has plenty of room to grow both from a health and maturity standpoint. But as hard as it might be for Lakers fans to see this because of how the playoffs ended, it appears Howard’s at the beginning stages of figuring out what will eventually entail a storied career filled with many championships. His willingness to learn and adapt suggest he’ll take the right steps next season to make that happen.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Tue May 07, 2013 7:20 pm

that first article is what I've been saying: Houston gets all the attention, but Atlanta is the team that could actually build a contender overnight. now, if howard won't play there (I guess, because it's Atlanta?), why would he play in Houston?
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby JGC on Tue May 07, 2013 8:30 pm

abeer3 wrote:that first article is what I've been saying: Houston gets all the attention, but Atlanta is the team that could actually build a contender overnight. now, if howard won't play there (I guess, because it's Atlanta?), why would he play in Houston?


The idea, which, I know you don't agree with, is that Houston is a team on the rise that many believe that even without a major roster change would be a better team next year. Why would they be better next year, without changes than this year? Because they have a lot of younger players that you expect to improve and they'd have another season with all of their new pieces under their belt. Now, if you can add Dwight to that mix in place of Asik, they would be even incrementally better.

Atlanta on the other hand, is a true rebuild from the ground up. The majority of their contracts come off the books this season and they're essentially starting from ground zero.

So the appeal of Houston (over Atlanta) is mainly because they're already a playoff team without any major changes, is expected to improve as their younger players develop and mature, get even more familiar with each other as this was their first season together. With Atlanta, they COULD get there or even further, but there are more question marks.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Tue May 07, 2013 8:31 pm

therealdeal wrote:Dwight isn't leaving LA to play basketball in America's poophole sports city- Atlanta.


He can leave for all I all care, only if they give us Horford/Teague/Krover.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby therealdeal on Tue May 07, 2013 9:33 pm

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Dwight isn't leaving LA to play basketball in America's poophole sports city- Atlanta.


He can leave for all I all care, only if they give us Horford/Teague/Krover.

He would just sign there, they wouldn't have to sign and trade for him.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Tue May 07, 2013 9:39 pm

And he would be smart to do so, they have better shooters and young athletes something we don't have unless the Lakers pull there head out of there rear and realize that this roster looks like a bunch of dinosaurs with no consistent shooters or athletic players.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue May 07, 2013 10:10 pm

There is some interesting comedic posting in this thread. :bow:
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby lakersin4 on Wed May 08, 2013 12:15 am

therealdeal wrote:
C0TT0NCANDY wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Dwight isn't leaving LA to play basketball in America's poophole sports city- Atlanta.


He can leave for all I all care, only if they give us Horford/Teague/Krover.

He would just sign there, they wouldn't have to sign and trade for him.

I think he'd rather they dump Hortford & whatever else to create space to bring BFF Smoove back. Korver can't be included so it'd have to just be Horford/Teague/filler/picks.. Pau & Horford has always struck me as an impossible to stop frontcourt. Honestly that's a very appealing package, & if it comes down to that or letting him walk, the choice is obvious.. But I'm still holding out hope that D12 has bought in to the franchice & we'll keep him & use a Pau trade to improve enough to get back to winning next season.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby Rooscooter on Wed May 08, 2013 6:15 am

abeer3 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
The Lakers will have to rebuild from the ground up under the new CBA...no guarantees that they can build a winning team around him.....


there are no guarantees anywhere. westbrook's and rose's injuries are great reminders for people thinking about young cores and the likelihood of winning a title.

Adidas will most likely give him a similar lifetime contract to D-Roses and the amount of it will depend on his overall marketability.... City is a large part but also is being in the Playoffs and finals keep him in public view longer...


so everyone really thinks that the lakers are going to be a perennial lotto team with dwight in the fold? they had a nightmare season last year and still made the playoffs, ahead of mighty houston's young hot newness.

Go to a team with a core under contract and a "known" situation.....


known mediocrity, with little chance at improving after signing howard.

Finally..... Taxes!. Texas has no income tax. CA has about 13% for someone in his category. That's $2,600,000 on a 20M/Yr salary....


tax difference only applies to home games, so it's half that, i believe.

I'm sure all of that will play into his final decision. Don't discount the taxes aspect.... even if Adidas gives him a bigger contract in LA the taxes may negate a large part of it. Also, taxes on accumulated wealth (investments) are at play here. If he's making big money on invested past earnings he could be doubling that tax bill or more.....


i don't know what the adidas difference is, but i do know that to buy all of this logic, you have to accept two premises that i don't:

1. that the extra guaranteed year means nothing. dwight will be 32 and his game is predicated on athleticism. how much of that cash can he recover? what if he injures his back again?

2. that the lakers are going to be bad for a few years. don't buy this, either. especially if howard stays. if harden is such a big draw to houston, then howard would be a huge draw to the lakers next summer.

the only strong counters i'll grant are: a) houston with howard would be better than la with howard next year and b) howard's decision making has been super shaky in the past, which means logic may get thrown out the window.

but all logic, on and off court, indicates to me that howard will stay in la.


First.... These are more or less the facts here. Howard is a cornerstone but he isn't a top 5 cornerstone IMO. In that he's going to carry a team down the stretch or be the mental leader..... So he will need a very strong number two guy to be on a team that will go deep in the playoffs. Now he was just on a team with 3 other HOF players that barely made the playoffs so I'm not sure of your statement about a Howard team not being a lottery team..... We were nearly one THIS year.

Taxes.... lets say Howard makes a total of 60M a year off his NBA deal, endorsements and investments...... Now even if you are right about the "road game" scenario that doesn't apply to his other income which will be a lot more than what he gets from his NBA salary. He has the potential to save between 6 and 7 million a year in Texas...... Over 5 years that's over 30 million.... Where have I heard that number before?

I'm not predicting he leaves rather showing that going to a state without income tax is a real factor here....especially in light of difference between CA and Texas.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Wed May 08, 2013 6:25 am

JGC wrote:The idea, which, I know you don't agree with, is that Houston is a team on the rise that many believe that even without a major roster change would be a better team next year. Why would they be better next year, without changes than this year? Because they have a lot of younger players that you expect to improve and they'd have another season with all of their new pieces under their belt. Now, if you can add Dwight to that mix in place of Asik, they would be even incrementally better.


you're right: you lose me at "likely to improve without changes next year". which player is poised to break out/make big strides? that was this year. i'll be shocked if any of their top players come back and look markedly different on the court next year. if anything, they'd be extremely lucky to duplicate their near perfect health from this past season.

Atlanta on the other hand, is a true rebuild from the ground up. The majority of their contracts come off the books this season and they're essentially starting from ground zero.


except their best player (who's a top 20 nba player, i'd guess, in the harden range). they'd also be able to hang onto Teague's rights. they can also afford paul (nobody else can say these things). if not, they can keep some (nearly all of the important parts) of a team that was better than Houston last year and whose core would be as young. why can't they just re-sign smith, sign howard, keep Teague and lou Williams and roll? that's a better team than harden/howard/role players. and it's in the weaker east.

i'm just trying to wrap my mind around the Houston hype. is it about harden? people think he's that good? on paper, i'm just not nearly as impressed with their potential as everyone else seems to be. Atlanta scares me more as a Dwight suitor.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Wed May 08, 2013 6:31 am

Rooscooter wrote:First.... These are more or less the facts here. Howard is a cornerstone but he isn't a top 5 cornerstone IMO. In that he's going to carry a team down the stretch or be the mental leader..... So he will need a very strong number two guy to be on a team that will go deep in the playoffs. Now he was just on a team with 3 other HOF players that barely made the playoffs so I'm not sure of your statement about a Howard team not being a lottery team..... We were nearly one THIS year.


I hope Dwight's less emotional about this season than lakers fans are. it was a Murphy's Law type year, and the team still made the playoffs (again, ahead of Houston). if you believe that's what we should expect and/or that the lakers can't find quality complimentary pieces to put around howard going forward, we can't really have a conversation. you're assuming all negatives for the lakers and all positives for other teams.

Taxes.... lets say Howard makes a total of 60M a year off his NBA deal, endorsements and investments...... Now even if you are right about the "road game" scenario that doesn't apply to his other income which will be a lot more than what he gets from his NBA salary. He has the potential to save between 6 and 7 million a year in Texas...... Over 5 years that's over 30 million.... Where have I heard that number before?


taxes on a smaller number, if what we're led to believe about the value of his endorsements varying based on location. so, potentially moot or worse. it's only saving if it comes off the same amount.

I'm not predicting he leaves rather showing that going to a state without income tax is a real factor here....especially in light of difference between CA and Texas.


Deron Williams could have done this last year and didn't. in fact, i'm trying to think of a guy who switched teams and cited taxes as a concern. let's also not forget that these guys have the best accountants money can buy. i don't pretend to be a tax expert, but i know that, for example, my parents kept a residence in texas and designated it as their primary, even though they really spent most of their time elsewhere. they did this for tax purposes. tom cruise used to have a house a couple miles from where i lived in a suburb of dallas, but i'm not sure he'd ever been to the place. in other words, i'm pretty sure dwight could get out of CA state taxes on non-basketball income, or at least greatly reduce its impact.

what's implicit in my comments above is that if taxes were a huge issue, wouldn't more players flock to the three texas teams? because all three have basically been shut out by FAs in recent years. SA just keeps their own guys, and dallas and houston have continually struck out in FA.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Wed May 08, 2013 7:24 am

abeer3 wrote:if you believe that's what we should expect and/or that the lakers can't find quality complimentary pieces to put around howard going forward, we can't really have a conversation. you're assuming all negatives for the lakers and all positives for other teams.


The reality is, if the Lakers can't find the shooters and athletic players a Howard lead team needs to be successful then he will not resign here this off-season, forget about it.... this guy has a better chance to get his complimentary pieces on another team... then he has with the Lakers...... the Lakers are to stub-born and seem satisfied to bring back the bench scrubs from last year and the same starting line-up.

I will fully support Howard if he left this mess of a team/franchise and went somewhere else.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Wed May 08, 2013 7:36 am

lol, this has to be schtick, right?

part of the reason the lakers haven't been able to recruit these athletic shooters is that they already have better players ahead of them. young guys want to play, so when they're FAs, they look for teams that have holes to fill. the lakers, on paper, had none. it's not mitch's fault everyone got hurt simultaneously, forcing guys nobody expected to be more than practice bodies into leading roles. if your beef is that the lakers should have had a third string better than other teams' second string, you can't be reasoned with.

on paper, the lakers bench this year should have been: jordan hill, steve blake, antawn jamison, jodie meeks, and earl clark. that's a good second unit. better than average, i'd argue. instead, darius morris started a bunch of games.

going forward, the lakers will have more playing time and money to offer these guys that everyone's upset about missing out on. it just can't happen this summer. one more year, and the lakers can surround dwight with several of those guys if they so choose.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby karacha on Wed May 08, 2013 7:40 am

Stub-born?
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby C0TT0NCANDY on Wed May 08, 2013 7:50 am

Giving up all those Draft picks in the Nash trade might haunt the Lakers for a while. what a stupid thing to do.
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby karacha on Wed May 08, 2013 8:00 am

C0TT0NCANDY wrote:Giving up all those Draft picks in the Nash trade might haunt the Lakers for a while. what a stupid thing to do.


Is that Dwight-related? Also, yo do know that Lakers, in general, do not develop many of their draft picks. Especially low picks?
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Re: D12 Thread: Brushin' his shoulders off (Won't need surgery)

Postby abeer3 on Wed May 08, 2013 8:07 am

karacha wrote:
C0TT0NCANDY wrote:Giving up all those Draft picks in the Nash trade might haunt the Lakers for a while. what a stupid thing to do.


Is that Dwight-related? Also, yo do know that Lakers, in general, do not develop many of their draft picks. Especially low picks?


yeah, off topic, but the lakers gave up the 17th and 48th picks in one of the weakest drafts in recent history, along with a second rounder next year and a first in 2015. only the last one concerns me, really.

back on topic: money matters and houston's not that good. discuss.
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