D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Weezy on Tue May 21, 2013 10:24 am

And on top of that, I honestly feel like Dwight is the type of guy who's influenced some by the media. And right now, the media keeps saying that Houston is the better basketball situation, and that Dwight should go there. I still think the most likely outcome is that he stays in LA because of the money, but not liking the coach in LA and being unsure about the roster have to be big considerations. I mean we're hanging onto a garbage coach for BS reasons, a coach who literally said he doesn't like post ups, thinks it is a bad basketball play. :man11:
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby The Rock on Tue May 21, 2013 10:30 am

We're pretty much in an impossible situation

- He wants Phil back but Phil says he's not coaching anymore
- He wants Jim Buss out but uhh ye Jeanie/Jim aren't gonna go against their dad's wishes and take out Jim

So I guess we're screwed then Lol unless Dwight/MDA can patch it up miraculously

Maybe Stan can save it?
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Tobias Funke on Tue May 21, 2013 10:34 am

Weezy wrote:And on top of that, I honestly feel like Dwight is the type of guy who's influenced some by the media. And right now, the media keeps saying that Houston is the better basketball situation, and that Dwight should go there. I still think the most likely outcome is that he stays in LA because of the money, but not liking the coach in LA and being unsure about the roster have to be big considerations. I mean we're hanging onto a garbage coach for BS reasons, a coach who literally said he doesn't like post ups, thinks it is a bad basketball play. :man11:


Doesn't like post ups when his three best players do alot of their work in the post. Perfect fit I tell ya! :man10:

Like I said though, good PR move for Dwight to leak his frustrations with the coach. Maybe he wants to go to Houston and knows that the FO will double down on Dantoni and wont hire Phil, so this is his excuse to leave. Maybe he really would stay if Phil came back an he's forcing the FO's hand. Either way, pressure's on them.

No one is gonna call him a coach killer for this. He deserved that title for getting Stan fired, but MDA already looks bad by himself. Throw Phil into the mix and he looks exponentially worse, and there aren't many people who'd call Dwight unreasonable for wanting him gone.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Doc Brown on Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 am

The Rock wrote:
Maybe Stan can save it?


Stan isn't coaching this season due to family issues. He said he might come back to coaching in 2014.

Stan Van Gundy won't coach next season

By Nick Borges | ESPN.com

Stan Van Gundy, via the rumor mill, has been linked with the Atlanta Hawks, Milwaukee Bucks and Los Angeles Clippers, however that can end now as he plans to sit out the 2013-14 NBA season.

From David Baumann of Orlando's 1080 The Team: "Stan Van Gundy just told us he WILL NOT be a head coach in the NBA next season. It's a family decision. ... Gundy also told us he HAS NOT interviewed with any teams, although several teams had contacted him and he keeps telling them no."

While Van Gundy is off the 2013 market, he is a quality head coach and he will be mentioned with openings in 2014 and that might be the right time to return to the bench.

“The longer you are out, the more difficult it is to get back in ... Right now it’s not in the best interest of my family,” said Van Gundy.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby The Rock on Tue May 21, 2013 10:41 am

Fudge...
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Tue May 21, 2013 11:15 am

The Rock wrote:We're pretty much in an impossible situation

- He wants Phil back but Phil says he's not coaching anymore
- He wants Jim Buss out but uhh ye Jeanie/Jim aren't gonna go against their dad's wishes and take out Jim

So I guess we're screwed then Lol unless Dwight/MDA can patch it up miraculously

Maybe Stan can save it?


You're going to drive yourself crazy if you have an emotional swing with each of these reports leading up to and during free agency. The only things we KNOW to be true:

-The Lakers play in LA. LA is a great place to live (especially for young charismatic millionaire athletes).
-The Lakers can offer Dwight more money and a longer contract than anyone else.
-The Lakers have won more games than any other franchise and their success historically (all the way up to very recently) is unmatched.
-Dwight apparently didn't love playing for D'Antoni, but things progressed better and you could see Mike shifting some of his offense to more of Dwight in the post (which he apparently wants). That relationship is not beyond repair (some of these dumb "sourced" reports have even said as much).
-Dwight just went through a nightmarish 16 months of crap with free agency being the payoff. He's going to listen to all offers and allow other teams to line up and "kiss the ring". This is going to lead to all sorts of speculation pulling Dwight this way or that way.

We really don't know anything else. Probably best to ignore most of the stuff that comes out because it's going to be from sources with agendas. Agendas that want Dwight in LA, or Houston, or Dallas, or Atlanta, or wherever. Nobody is unbiased in this situation. The smart money still is on the Lakers. And frankly, we'll survive if he chooses to go elsewhere. Don't need someone afraid of the pressure and spotlight to lead this great franchise back to the top of the mountain here anyway.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby The Rock on Tue May 21, 2013 11:17 am

I wasn't too upset when Stephen A"s report came out but that Rudolph guy's tweets confirming it is not a good sign. Rudolph as annoying as he can be is Dwight's mouthpiece. For years he's been echoing what Dwight's been thinking
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Tue May 21, 2013 11:22 am

The Rock wrote:I wasn't too upset when Stephen A"s report came out but that Rudolph guy's tweets confirming it is not a good sign. Rudolph as annoying as he can be is Dwight's mouthpiece. For years he's been echoing what Dwight's been thinking


Even if Dwight's preference is to have MDA out, that doesn't necessarily mean he's not resigning, right? Put yourself in Dwight's shoes: Might as well lay your cards down on the table as far as what you want here in LA. Doesn't mean you'll get everything you want, but doesn't hurt to lay out your desires in case the Lakers are inclined to oblige.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby The Rock on Tue May 21, 2013 11:26 am

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
The Rock wrote:I wasn't too upset when Stephen A"s report came out but that Rudolph guy's tweets confirming it is not a good sign. Rudolph as annoying as he can be is Dwight's mouthpiece. For years he's been echoing what Dwight's been thinking


Even if Dwight's preference is to have MDA out, that doesn't necessarily mean he's not resigning, right? Put yourself in Dwight's shoes: Might as well lay your cards down on the table as far as what you want here in LA. Doesn't mean you'll get everything you want, but doesn't hurt to lay out your desires in case the Lakers are inclined to oblige.


His demands are super unrealistic though, thats the thing. He wants Phil back but only way Phil *might* be allowed to return is by being a coach and Phil just said he's done coaching. No way Jim lets Phil in the front office. And Stan just said he's not coaching here. What is the incentive left for Dwight to return? Im just thinking out loud here trying to put myself in his shoes when weighing options.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Chillbongo on Tue May 21, 2013 12:01 pm

The Rock wrote:We're pretty much in an impossible situation

- He wants Phil back but Phil says he's not coaching anymore
- He wants Jim Buss out but uhh ye Jeanie/Jim aren't gonna go against their dad's wishes and take out Jim

I wouldn't say it's so black and white.

Dwight said he was frustrated with MDA's coaching style and he's also said that he has mad respect for Phil. Dwight never said he wants "Jim out"....unless I missed some info somewhere.

So there's still a possibility of Phil taking an executive role and us hiring a different coach. Or even possibly, us hiring Phil as a VP and keeping D'Antoni until Phil fires him.

Or us firing D'Antoni and going with a different coach, and Phil not being part of the Lakers org.

Or yeah, we're screwed because even if Dwight stays, we're not going anywhere with the team as constructed, both in player personnel and staff personnel.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Lakerjones on Tue May 21, 2013 4:12 pm

Dwight wants Phil over D' Antoni. Can't say I blame him much. I knew this was going to come up in some form or another. The dude really dislikes D' Antoni and his opposition to post-play. No surprise.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby pound4pound1 on Tue May 21, 2013 4:27 pm

Lakerjones wrote:Dwight wants Phil over D' Antoni. Can't say I blame him much. I knew this was going to come up in some form or another. The dude really dislikes D' Antoni and his opposition to post-play. No surprise.



LJ, unless Phil has communicated to Dwight (since they text each other) that he IS willing to come back and coach the Lakers, i think this is just a smokescreen being used for when he departs to Houston


ask for something that can't happen so you dont look like the ultimate bad guy
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby The Rock on Tue May 21, 2013 4:28 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:Dwight wants Phil over D' Antoni. Can't say I blame him much. I knew this was going to come up in some form or another. The dude really dislikes D' Antoni and his opposition to post-play. No surprise.



LJ, unless Phil has communicated to Dwight (since they text each other) that he IS willing to come back and coach the Lakers, i think this is just a smokescreen being used for when he departs to Houston


ask for something that can't happen so you dont look like the ultimate bad guy


This is what Im thinking too
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby pound4pound1 on Tue May 21, 2013 4:34 pm

The Rock wrote:
pound4pound1 wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:Dwight wants Phil over D' Antoni. Can't say I blame him much. I knew this was going to come up in some form or another. The dude really dislikes D' Antoni and his opposition to post-play. No surprise.



LJ, unless Phil has communicated to Dwight (since they text each other) that he IS willing to come back and coach the Lakers, i think this is just a smokescreen being used for when he departs to Houston


ask for something that can't happen so you dont look like the ultimate bad guy


This is what Im thinking too



he can go if he wants...hopefully we can do a sign and trade...if not, just more caproom next summer..no biggie..
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Tobias Funke on Tue May 21, 2013 4:40 pm

^I think that Dwight would be fine with Phil joining the FO and hand picking a coach he's groomed and can mentor behind the scenes.

If it really is a case where Dwight is trying to be sneaky by asking for something he knows wont happen, then that tells me he's looked at Jim, Jeanie and Phil behind the scenes and pretty much concluded that there's no way those guys can ever work together again, whether with Phil as the coach or in management.

And honestly, you cant blame him for wanting to walk away from that level of upper management disconnect.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby The Rock on Tue May 21, 2013 4:45 pm

Not sure if this matters a whole lot but Chandler Parsons was in LA last week and signed with Dwight's agent, Dan Fegan
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Chillbongo on Tue May 21, 2013 4:49 pm

Tobias Funke wrote:^I think that Dwight would be fine with Phil joining the FO and hand picking a coach he's groomed and can mentor behind the scenes.

If it really is a case where Dwight is trying to be sneaky by asking for something he knows wont happen, then that tells me he's looked at Jim, Jeanie and Phil behind the scenes and pretty much concluded that there's no way those guys can ever work together again, whether with Phil as the coach or in management.

And honestly, you cant blame him for wanting to walk away from that level of upper management disconnect.

Is losing Dwight enough to knock some sense into Jim?
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Lakerjones on Tue May 21, 2013 4:49 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:
Lakerjones wrote:Dwight wants Phil over D' Antoni. Can't say I blame him much. I knew this was going to come up in some form or another. The dude really dislikes D' Antoni and his opposition to post-play. No surprise.



LJ, unless Phil has communicated to Dwight (since they text each other) that he IS willing to come back and coach the Lakers, i think this is just a smokescreen being used for when he departs to Houston


ask for something that can't happen so you dont look like the ultimate bad guy


I hear you Pound. And while I concede that I might be wrong, I think it's actually 100% the other way around. I think Dwight DOES want to be in LA. The thing is he wants to have the best here with him and that's Phil. He was really excited when he thought there was a chance as we all did over that weekend after Brown was fired. He was as giddy as a school girl when he talked about the possibility. That's not a smoke screen. He WANTS Phil. And like I said, why wouldn't he?

D' Antoni sucks for this team, and sucks even worse for Howard as he doesn't give a damn about giving him more possessions in the post and also doesn't care much about Defense.

I really do feel like this is Dwight's play to get things changed. He doesn't trust the FO with Jim only in charge and I get that. He wants Phil and Jeannie in the mix.

I actually feel like it's an opposite thing. I think he's playing up the possibility of leaving to Houston as a card to get what he really wants HERE. And honestly, I don't blame him at all. I just hope it works.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Tobias Funke on Tue May 21, 2013 4:57 pm

Chillbongo wrote:Is losing Dwight enough to knock some sense into Jim?


Well, he'd probably say that he's not the only one that's wrong in this situation, and he'd be right.

But whether he likes it or not, he is the one with the power, so he has to be the one to get it right, or he'll be the one that gets ALL the blame if/when it all comes tumbling down.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Chillbongo on Tue May 21, 2013 5:00 pm

That's my thinking.

Things Dwight wants:

a) new head coach/coaching philosophy: Jim's responsibility
b) improved player personnel: Mitch & Jim's responsibility
c) Phil Jackson: Jim's responsibility

Not all his fault, but definitely all in his capacity to fix.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby 432J on Tue May 21, 2013 5:03 pm

are these the same "family reasons" that SVG stepped down as HC of the heat for?
:man1:

fire dan tony and keep dwight.

done
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby abeer3 on Tue May 21, 2013 5:15 pm

The Rock wrote:Not sure if this matters a whole lot but Chandler Parsons was in LA last week and signed with Dwight's agent, Dan Fegan


might matter. I know that parsons definitely needed to fire his former agent. if you believe in your talent, don't lock yourself into a 4 year deal at the absolute minimum. there's a good chance that by the time he's eligible for bigger money, his flaws will be exposed. he might have lost 10 million or more because he went for 4 years instead of 2.

I have plenty of reasons to think morey isn't the genius that the media portrays, but one thing he was ahead of the curve on: long term deals for 2nd rounders and undrafted guys. it's predatory, really. offering them guaranteed money when they're scratching and clawing to get into the league is the ultimate in low-risk, high-reward moves. even if you bomb (which morey has done several times: j. taylor, thabeet/Flynn, joey Dorsey), there's no real damage done.

all that said, if i'm parsons' agent, i'm looking to get some of my value back in the next deal from my team: meaning--I gave you two years of production at about 7 times my contract, and I think you owe it to me to overpay.

this is where the angle comes in: fegan, who most certainly wants Dwight to stay in la (imo), might soften his stance a little if he gets a pledge from the rockets FO that they'll do right by parsons when the time comes, no matter what the circumstance. or maybe I watch too many movies.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby abeer3 on Tue May 21, 2013 5:15 pm

The Rock wrote:Not sure if this matters a whole lot but Chandler Parsons was in LA last week and signed with Dwight's agent, Dan Fegan


might matter. I know that parsons definitely needed to fire his former agent. if you believe in your talent, don't lock yourself into a 4 year deal at the absolute minimum. there's a good chance that by the time he's eligible for bigger money, his flaws will be exposed. he might have lost 10 million or more because he went for 4 years instead of 2.

I have plenty of reasons to think morey isn't the genius that the media portrays, but one thing he was ahead of the curve on: long term deals for 2nd rounders and undrafted guys. it's predatory, really. offering them guaranteed money when they're scratching and clawing to get into the league is the ultimate in low-risk, high-reward moves. even if you bomb (which morey has done several times: j. taylor, thabeet/Flynn, joey Dorsey), there's no real damage done.

all that said, if i'm parsons' agent, i'm looking to get some of my value back in the next deal from my team: meaning--I gave you two years of production at about 7 times my contract, and I think you owe it to me to overpay.

this is where the angle comes in: fegan, who most certainly wants Dwight to stay in la (imo), might soften his stance a little if he gets a pledge from the rockets FO that they'll do right by parsons when the time comes, no matter what the circumstance. or maybe I watch too many movies.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Rooscooter on Tue May 21, 2013 6:39 pm

Chillbongo wrote:That's my thinking.

Things Dwight wants:

a) new head coach/coaching philosophy: Jim's responsibility
b) improved player personnel: Mitch & Jim's responsibility
c) Phil Jackson: Jim's responsibility

Not all his fault, but definitely all in his capacity to fix.



I think you and most here are missing another possibility...... He could be weaving a near impossible scenario to excuse his exit to another team..... Cover fire if you will....
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Re: Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

Postby Vasashi17 on Tue May 21, 2013 6:53 pm

I don't like if a player controls an organization and holds them hostage. I didn't like it when Kobe did it, but for some reason, I don't mind it happening this time.

Let's be entirely honest to ourselves Laker fans....our FO is a non-basketball mind surrounded by yes men. Mitch ain't Jerry West...dude can wave around a wand, but can't wave around his man parts when he knows the boss is wrong. And you think MDA is going to say anything to the hand that feeds him....forgetit!

Jerry Buss was surrounded by Phil and Jerry West at one point....you need dissension....a form of checks and balances up top. That's why you bring Jeanie and Phil aboard. Not because they have better basketball minds...no that's just a bonus. Its because they will refuse the status quo. They won't hesitate to call Jimmy an idiot.

Dwight....let the FO have it! Cause one thing is certain...we ain't going anywhere if there isn't a change up top first.
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