D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Scnottaken on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:48 am

hollywood swinger wrote::man10: :man10: :man10: @ all the BG32 hate. he is a beast.

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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Wrath12X on Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:31 am

hollywood swinger wrote::man10: :man10: :man10: @ all the BG32 hate. he is a beast.

:bang: :man10: :man10: No, he's not
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby nickvanexel on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:35 am

I hate Blake Griffin so much. Please dont come here. :(
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:13 am

hollywood swinger wrote::man10: :man10: :man10: @ all the BG32 hate. he is a beast.


Please explain how he is a "beast"? What does he do on the court that makes him a beast?

BG32 is not a perfect player just like every other player in the league BUT lets look at the reality of the situation IF true.


I thought he was a beast, now he's not a perfect player that is just like every other player in the league? He went from a beast to just like every other player in the league in two posts? :what:

1. if D12 doesn't want to be here you must deal him


You deal him for a great deal, not Blake Griffin, the guy with no post moves, no defense, a broke jumpshot and the biggest b**** mentality in the league. He is the type of player, you don't want in the playoffs, leading your team. And with the added kicker of....

Having him under contract until 2016-2017 for 18 million and then 20 million in his final year. Don't say we could trade him, because he's a beast and why would you trade a beast?

Bledsoe will be a solid role player, nothing more. He's a great defender, but he's not a true "PG" because he's a turnover machine. No midrange game, with a suspect 3 point shot. If he's not playing like Rondo with those characteristics, why would we want that as our starting PG? And with the added kicker...

He's a restricted FA next season, we are competing with every team with cap room for him at that point. We will have to overpay for him big time or let him walk. Both options are no win.

So now we have a maxed out joke in Blake Griffin and an overpaid Eric Bledsoe taking up probably 30 million of our cap room. Hell no.

2. if you can get BG32 a absolute no denying star in this league you have to do it to add to chance of attracting other players.


He's a star by game or by media praise? If it's by media praise there's a problem. Why would he attract other players? What evidence do you have that players flocked to LAC to play with him? No one wanted to play there until CP3 was there. If you make a claim like that, provide the evidence or else it's just BS.


3. you would be foolish to let him walk and HOPE that in 2014 free agents want to flock to LA which maybe FOOLS GOLD just like it was fools gold think D12 wouldn't won't to leave simply because we are the Lakers.


So shortsighted. We are screwed if we don't take this deal because of 2014? No, the 2014 class sucks, we are screwed if we take this deal in 2015 and on for the reasons stated above with the contracts of BG and EB.

Why would it be fools gold if most thought D12 wouldn't leave because we are the Lakers? Unlike your claims, there is actual evidence that great big men NEVER leave the Lakers and stay and make a legacy. Why wouldn't we think any different when the next "great" big man comes through LA?

4. also if true you can get a stud young talented pg in the deal in bledsoe which is a massive need for this team.


Stud? No
Young and talented? Yes

We have a massive need at PG, so we trade one of the best bigs in the league to get him? Bledsoe hasn't done s*** in this league to be a stud. Most of his stock is based on potential and the blinders when it comes to the negatives I mentioned above about him. Having an overpaid Bledsoe on our team in two years is dumb.

5. as much as it sucks yes we are committed to that fool of a coach MDA so why not give him a young athletic big who can play in his system. Imagine going small with BG32 at the 5 surrounded with shooters giving bigs massive headaches trying to run the floor with him.


Imagine going into the playoffs with Blake Griffin as your big man. He won't get doubled and the shooters won't be open, then we are depending on BG to break down the D and lead the team. LOL at that thought.

Griffin and Pau would be a terrible combo. No defense, no inside presence and two mentally soft players as your bigs in the playoffs. They would be eaten alive.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Kingsama on Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:38 am

I'm not high on BG32 as he is "too nice", really needs a lot of development, and has yet to prove he can be a force in the league, but I don't think he is fools gold. He has a reputation for being a very hard worker and I bet he would soak up being a Laker quickly. Instead of crying about Kobe being hard on him I think he would buy into it. I could see him developing here the way that Dwight most likely never will. I think the best option is keeping a Dwight who is buying into Lakerdom, but if that isn't happening and you can get BG32 AND young backcourt talent that isn't something the thumb your nose at. Add that to a possible shipping of Pau for youth and pics and the Lakers could still remain financially flexible and have a youth movement. Besides, I don't know if I really want the Lakers to gamble on '14 or '15 and rebuild through the draft. But I trust Mitchell so lets see how this goes.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby noobiew on Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:41 am

Man Blake Griffin is overrated but Bledsoe is a stud and very intriguing & tempting. Of course resigning Dwight is still our main first priority but if Dwight still preferring Houston or really wants to leave and play with CP3 then I would do the deal rather than let's Dwight walks away for nothing.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby bigdog2013 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:20 am

Blake Griffin and Bledsoe might be a better fit for Mike Dantoni system. They can really run and gun with those 2 guys. I doubt the lakers will make this trade.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby kenzo on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:45 am

And i thought that the idea of Bynum for Kidd was stupid... :freak2:
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby abeer3 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:31 pm

not a huge fan of either griffin (who has what i think may be fatal flaws in terms of developing into a franchise player) or Bledsoe (who really hasn't shown much at all), i'd prefer such a move to howard walking for nada.

but until howard tells them he's leaving, the lakers need to play hardball with everyone: no s&ts is the stance.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby LOSLAKERS on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:28 pm

Lakers have no time with Kobe, Nash, and Pau to afford letting Dwight walk for nothing.

I am 100% down for a s&t for Blake or whoever if Dwight is just gonna walk. I have also been a long time Raptors fan so I know what waiting and rebuilding is like... and I'm fine with that for however long as long as we give Kobe a legitimate chance to contend in his last couple years. I couldn't care less about cap space to rebuild. I care about the next two years. If that sets the future Lakers franchise back a few years so be it.

A player like Kobe comes once in a lifetime. Nash and Pau are rare as well. But to grow up and spend years watching a player like Kobe is something that only time can give you. To just sit back and say "hey let's rebuild" while Kobe is still here is a huge slap in the face and it won't be until another 20 years where I can have a chance to have gotten a similar attachment to a player as I do to Kobe.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby lakerfan2 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:00 pm

An undersized Dwight with no defense. Yeah, okay.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Weezy on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:07 pm

Blake doesn't make us a championship contender though, replacing Dwight with him makes us worse. And that is again coming from someone who doesn't even like Dwight and finds him overrated. I think Griffin is even more overrated and that anyone who says he's a beast probably only looks at some of his stats, watches him during all star weekend and on ESPN highlights. He's a flashy dunker and athletic. He can't shoot free throws (or shoot very well in general), he doesn't play real defense, his rebounding numbers are so so for someone that tall and athletic (and get even worse in the playoffs), and I think he's soft and can be taken off his game with physical play. Letting Dwight walk does mean we aren't as good for a season most likely, but then we have room to sign better players in '14 and '15. That's not exactly a full on rebuild, and this isn't the Raptors, the Lakers spend or make moves to get better all the time. All Griffin would do for LA is put a band aid on a wound that needs stitches, it makes us look better on the surface with fans in the wake of losing Dwight, but it doesn't get us anywhere near a title. So what's the point of trading for a guy with that long a contract that's really highly paid if it doesn't actually make us contenders. I actually would rather do a rebuild than do that.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby FabFourLakers on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:47 pm

Boy you guys act like Griffin is a scrub....tell me this...IF we lose Dwight to Houston for nothing....who exactly is comign to the Lakers in 2014 that is BETTER than BG? LeBron ain't coming, as much as ppl want to believe it...he will not come here. AFter that, it's a bunch of older players that will either be washed up or not even close to being worth the max. Just a bunch of former all stars and players that will make us marginally better. I think after LeBron, the crop of FA's are just as overrated as BG....except BG still has room to improve and he's MUCH younger (24 years old).

Also, people have NOT been paying attention to how good Eric Bledsoe really is. First off, he's probably the 2nd or 3rd best defender at his position behind Russell Westbrook and Rajon Rondo. Secondly, he is also very young and can improve his jump shot and decision making (only 23 years old). Thirdly, he will play behind Nash for a year and he will surely learn a lot under his tutelage. Fourthly, did i mention that he's a damn good defender and we've primarily had trouble against these fast and athletic PG's that have seemingly taken over the Western Conference? Lastly, he's on a cheap deal, and yes he's restricted next year, but at the very least, I think the Lakers should be able to retain him on a cheaper deal than most think (probably something like 4 years, 24M), without totally killing our cap space in 2014.

I also think that Kobe/BG will be a very effective duo....more effective than cp3/BG. I dunno, im not opposed to getting a guy like BG. He kinda took a step back this past year, but I'm willing to bet that he will have a huge year next year and put up the 20/11 numbers that he had 2 years ago.

I know that if we let Dwight walk, we keep the cap space and we have a shot at 2 top FA's...but besides LeBron, I can't think of anyone else that's going to help us more than BG would. My preference is to keep Howard, but if he is gonna leave for Houston, I would prefer to get someone like Blake Griffin and Bledsoe for him (and possibly even a future first round pick).
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby FabFourLakers on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:49 pm

But i guess if we let Dwight walk, it'll be nice to have space for 2, possibly 3 star FA's (only possible if Nash retires), along with the possibility of Kobe and Gasol re-signing on much cheaper deals. The Lakers can reload very quickly...that's the best part about this whole situation.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Weezy on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:26 pm

It's not just about who's better than Griffin, it's about how he fits and what needs he fills. We need defense, we need rebounding and hustle, and we need scoring other than dunks, Blake really doesn't do any of that. Why take a player that doesn't fill needs just because? That's not a guy I want as a huge piece of my franchise for a bunch more years, not a guy I see as a key piece to a title. I don't give a crap if Howard walks, but the thought of having Griffin instead makes me want to get down on my knees and beg him to stay. He's a lot like Dwight, minus the defense, boarding, and he makes Dwight look tough. :man10:
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby abeer3 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm

Dwight >>>> griffin >>>>> nothing
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby 432J on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:53 pm

can't believe some of you would prefer to let dwight walk and get nothing back instead of griffin

trust me, i can't stand ginger boy and his chronic flopping. hell, even seeing his face annoys me. yes he's overrated but he's a whole lot better than most anything else we'd get in return. the dude is a freak of nature in terms of athleticism and i know that acquiring him would be alot better than getting nothing back in return. i'd rather dwight than griffin any day of the week but if dwight leaves, they sure as hell better get something in return
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:56 pm

kenzo wrote:And i thought that the idea of Bynum for Kidd was stupid... :freak2:

No kidding lol. We could get so much more in return for Dwight if signing and trading him was something Mitch and Co were thinking of doing then Blake and Bledsoe. With all that said if Dwight does go somewhere else I think we better to just let him go and have even more ample cap room for the 2014 & 2015 free agents.
Last edited by Battle Tested20 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:01 pm

Weezy wrote:It's not just about who's better than Griffin, it's about how he fits and what needs he fills. We need defense, we need rebounding and hustle, and we need scoring other than dunks, Blake really doesn't do any of that. Why take a player that doesn't fill needs

This. More than anything this is why Blake plain and simply shouldn't be on our team. Now if we could sign and trade for some with a very small contract or who is expiring after this upcoming season....fine I'd be okey with that.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:12 pm

abeer3 wrote:Dwight >>>> griffin >>>>> nothing


Those dashes are too close.

Picking up Blake would be going backwards. The guy is all athletecism but has very little substance to his game. Could he improve? Of course. Should the Lakers be the team to try to help him with his brick building? I don't think so.

Also, I agree with some here getting Blake because Blake is better than nothing is not good enough to get Blake.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Battle Tested20 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:14 pm

^ :man10: idk why but I really enjoyed your post there puffy. It's Real Talk, poor Blake haha
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby unpossibl1 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:31 pm

It's a tricky situation. One of the things that I think is being overlooked is that trading Dwight for Griffin/Bledsoe doesn't necessarily mean keeping them. The new NBA is all about assets. Unfortunately, because of the new CBA the best assets you can have are superstar players who can carry a team to a title almost on their own (LeDouche/Durant) or all star players stuck on rookie contracts.

If Dwight goes to Mitch and says no matter what he isn't coming back to the Lakers, so trade him to the Clips or he goes to Hou or Atl, then Griffin/Bledsoe isn't a terrible deal. Griffin and Bledsoe are not going to carry a team to a title, but would teams give up future first round picks for them? Absolutely.

If the Lakers want to rebuild through the draft and value cap space they could send Dwight to the Clips and flip either Bledsoe, Griffin, or both to teams with cap space in exchange for first rounders. So for those of you who say they would rather have cap space than Griffin and Bledsoe, wouldn't it be better to have BOTH cap space and picks? Then they have a chance to sign a superstar who can carry them to a title with the cap space AND still lock up young players on rookie contracts.

So not wanting Griffin/Bledsoe isn't a good reason to shoot down the deal. However, I totally understand the argument about not wanting to build a powerhouse Clippers team and also not allowing Dwight to get what he wants. If Dwight is dumb enough to leave the Lakers they shouldn't help him do it.

Anyway, like I said, tricky situation. In a vacuum yeah, you take Griffin/Bledsoe and run, even if you do just flip them for picks/cap space. However, given the hostility between the Clippers and Lakers and the principal of standing firm against a superstar making an unheard of decision I totally get why they would hesitate to do it.

By the way, let's say Dwight ends up giving in and re-signing. Then what? He wasn't happy that the LA fans were wary of him (which was a result of his hesitancy to commit to LA...or say anything positive at all about staying), so how would he be able to rebuild his image here? It's been made clear that the Lakers aren't his top choice, so if he does re-sign it's because he couldn't force his way to Chris Paul's team, not because he truly wants to be a Laker. So how does he rebuild his image in LA after that?
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby noobiew on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:47 pm

^^ Hey guys, I don't know why we were saying and talking about defense and rebounding here when we have Mike "no defense" D'Antoni as our head coach, Blake Griffin and Bledsoe are athletic, young, speedy and got a pair of fast legs to run and run, they will fit in perfectly into Mike D'Antoni run and gun style system, Mike D'Antoni would love Griffin tho.

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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:56 pm

And don't get me wrong I would take Blake as a high energy third option type project. Thinking of him as a guy to rely on when it matters. Can people really not see that?
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:58 pm

FabFourLakers wrote:Boy you guys act like Griffin is a scrub....tell me this...IF we lose Dwight to Houston for nothing....who exactly is comign to the Lakers in 2014 that is BETTER than BG? LeBron ain't coming, as much as ppl want to believe it...he will not come here. AFter that, it's a bunch of older players that will either be washed up or not even close to being worth the max. Just a bunch of former all stars and players that will make us marginally better. I think after LeBron, the crop of FA's are just as overrated as BG....except BG still has room to improve and he's MUCH younger (24 years old).


Is Blake Griffin worth max? Does his play on the court warrant a max deal? Does his play on the court warrant 17 mil, 18 mil, 19 mil, 20 mil for the next 4 seasons? Should we tie up a major part of our cap on a guy that has "potential"? What does Blake do, for a max guy, that makes him championship caliber and a must have player to win a ring?

We lose that cap room, we might miss the chance to get a guy in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. Kobe plays for 3 more seasons, Bledsoe needs a new deal, we have Blake on his max deal, who are we going to pick up with those 3 taking up a majority of our cap? Those 3 aren't winning a ring, mainly because two of them aren't that good.


Also, people have NOT been paying attention to how good Eric Bledsoe really is. First off, he's probably the 2nd or 3rd best defender at his position behind Russell Westbrook and Rajon Rondo. Secondly, he is also very young and can improve his jump shot and decision making (only 23 years old). Thirdly, he will play behind Nash for a year and he will surely learn a lot under his tutelage. Fourthly, did i mention that he's a damn good defender and we've primarily had trouble against these fast and athletic PG's that have seemingly taken over the Western Conference? Lastly, he's on a cheap deal, and yes he's restricted next year, but at the very least, I think the Lakers should be able to retain him on a cheaper deal than most think (probably something like 4 years, 24M), without totally killing our cap space in 2014.


How good is he on offense? All I see is a turnover prone point guard with a broke jumpshot that is a solid defender. Basically we are trading D12 for potential and have to pay a premium to see IF these guys pan out. Blake hasn't improved one bit since his rookie year. Bledsoe still has time, but are we going to overpay to have to see it? You talk about how GOOD he is, 3rd best PG defender, young and with potential and we are going to get him for 6 MILLION a year? People in the league get paid more for less. He's at least getting 10 million.

I also think that Kobe/BG will be a very effective duo....more effective than cp3/BG. I dunno, im not opposed to getting a guy like BG. He kinda took a step back this past year, but I'm willing to bet that he will have a huge year next year and put up the 20/11 numbers that he had 2 years ago.


Why will they be effective? What does Blake Griffin do that will make him more effective with Kobe?

I know that if we let Dwight walk, we keep the cap space and we have a shot at 2 top FA's...but besides LeBron, I can't think of anyone else that's going to help us more than BG would. My preference is to keep Howard, but if he is gonna leave for Houston, I would prefer to get someone like Blake Griffin and Bledsoe for him (and possibly even a future first round pick).


You can't see anyone that will help us more because you are only looking at 2014 and not beyond.

We are going to overpay on "potential" and "young" with this deal.
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