D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby lakersin4 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:51 pm

:man10:

A team of guys that have never won telling Dwight how much they can win together vs. Kobe, Pau, MWP, & let's not kid ourselves, Phil telling Dwight what it's like winning in LA & how they'll do it again. If Dwight meant what he said about being all about winning, it won't take him long to make his decision once July is here.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby bumrusherer on Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Houston does make more sense than us from an immediate Basketball standpoint and Financially. The wont win but he's probably win more games there and have more fun without being in the intense Laker spotlight.
He didnt seem to care for the intense reaction that comes with being a Laker.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:59 pm

Financially? Houston is nowhere near a better option financially.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby lakersin4 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:05 pm

bumrusherer wrote:Houston does make more sense than us from an immediate Basketball standpoint and Financially. The wont win but he's probably win more games there and have more fun without being in the intense Laker spotlight.
He didnt seem to care for the intense reaction that comes with being a Laker.
I still don't agree with that.. You don't win championships without rare once in a generation type players. The Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Durant, Dirk during that season they won it, Wade during stretches.. Those type of players. Harden isn't there & neither is Dwight. His best chance to win a ring is still Kobe + trust that they'll either figure it out with Pau & Nash or moves will be made to get us there by the best franchise in the league at making those moves. Even if we play out the season with the roster as is + minor tweaks, we either find someone worth adding next season in free agency or go the Mavs route of signing 2nd tier FA's to 2 year deal's with team options & we go into 15 with enough cap to get Love or LMA + Wall or Rondo if Kobe is willing to come back for MLE type money in 15-16.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby S.R.05 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:41 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:^Players can recruit even if the player is under contract from another team: See superteam in Miami


right but im saying that its still tampering regardless of the rules. arguably worse than what's actually defined as tampering by the league
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:59 pm

Showtime.Revival.05 wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:^Players can recruit even if the player is under contract from another team: See superteam in Miami


right but im saying that its still tampering regardless of the rules. arguably worse than what's actually defined as tampering by the league

oh I agree. The league allows it and these players are "teaming" up to try and make super teams. Like John316 said, it is going to mess the league up too.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby abeer3 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:00 pm

lakersin4 wrote:I still don't agree with that.. You don't win championships without rare once in a generation type players. The Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Durant, Dirk during that season they won it, Wade during stretches.. Those type of players. Harden isn't there & neither is Dwight. His best chance to win a ring is still Kobe + trust that they'll either figure it out with Pau & Nash or moves will be made to get us there by the best franchise in the league at making those moves. Even if we play out the season with the roster as is + minor tweaks, we either find someone worth adding next season in free agency or go the Mavs route of signing 2nd tier FA's to 2 year deal's with team options & we go into 15 with enough cap to get Love or LMA + Wall or Rondo if Kobe is willing to come back for MLE type money in 15-16.


agree. still not sure why everyone thinks Houston is such a great situation. totally meh.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby charvin on Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:33 pm

If D12 considers a small market team, I'm interested to see whether his endorsers shrink away or continue to stick by him.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby bumrusherer on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:37 am

therealdeal wrote:Financially? Houston is nowhere near a better option financially.

Endorsements will follow you irrespective of where you play ( KD, Lebron for example showed that you can get your endorsement money in smaller markets ) and yes, he would leave money on the table because of changing teams but that blow is softened because of the tax situation.

lakersin4 - I dont disagree, I think you need a generational player as well. But like I said, I dont think he would win a title there but I think he will win more games there over the next 2-3 years and have more fun there as well. His game wont age very well because his skill level is abysmal..so 2-3 years takes him into his 30's and at that point, who knows where he will be?
Plus, we can all scoff at having more fun being an option but from an outsiders POV, having fun and being relaxed seems to be important to him.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:43 am

bumrusherer wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Financially? Houston is nowhere near a better option financially.

Endorsements will follow you irrespective of where you play ( KD, Lebron for example showed that you can get your endorsement money in smaller markets ) and yes, he would leave money on the table because of changing teams but that blow is softened because of the tax situation.


You think endorsements are the only sources of income that Hollywood offers over Houston? Financially there is no better place for a young person, especially a talented young person, than Los Angeles. Except maybe New York.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:50 am

therealdeal wrote:
bumrusherer wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Financially? Houston is nowhere near a better option financially.

Endorsements will follow you irrespective of where you play ( KD, Lebron for example showed that you can get your endorsement money in smaller markets ) and yes, he would leave money on the table because of changing teams but that blow is softened because of the tax situation.


You think endorsements are the only sources of income that Hollywood offers over Houston? Financially there is no better place for a young person, especially a talented young person, than Los Angeles. Except maybe New York.


Don't forget taxes and cost of living Real..... the max contract we can offer vs what Houston can offer is essentially the same after taxes..... Endorsements taxes in Texas vs California is another huge deal. Houston's connection to China (most popular NBA team there by far) is another fairly big deal....

it's not as cut and dried as you make it sound.... if it were we'd have all of the best players here... and the fact is that we've attracted nearly zero of them through FA over the years. We can't even get the Vet Free Agents that Miami gets.... even when we were winning championships.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:31 pm

Of course it's as cut and dry as it sounds. Even if state taxes completely nullified an extra 30 million dollars (I don't think it does), you're talking about the entertainment capital of the west coast and possibly the world.

Dwight recently signed on to do a voice for one of Disney's animated movies. Do you think Disney gives two s***s about Dwight if he isn't in Los Angeles? He was in Orlando minutes from their other park and I don't think he had that opportunity then either. And that is just the beginning. Do you think Adidas prefers the Los Angeles Lakers or the Houston Rockets for domestic and international sales? That answer is obvious.

The Chinese connection is established, but their even greater love happens to be Kobe Bryant who plays for the Los Angeles Lakers. Howard has a greater opportunity in that area playing with Kobe Bryant than he does playing in Houston with Jeremy Lin (who might not end up staying because of money issues if they got to Howard).
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Helljumper on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:10 pm

Parsons is right. There is too much uncertainty here. Maybe our core finds the fountain of youth and comes back strong from all their injuries. Or maybe they continue to struggle with their health as they get older leaving Dwight little help. Maybe we can utilize our cap-space to put an instant contender around Dwight in 2014. Or maybe the key free agents decide to stay with their current teams and we go back to the mediocrity of the 2005-2007 era with few assets to improve. Houston has an in-tact core of very good young players, an excellent GM, and a bunch of assets they could use to continue to improve after hypothetically signing Dwight.

If Dwight's main concern really is winning it would be understandable if he decided to go to Houston. I'm not saying Houston definitely has a brighter future than us, just that it's not as risky. The onus is on Mitch to turn Pau into some young blood that Dwight can rely on next season and post-2014. And he has about a week to do it.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby noobiew on Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:05 pm

Dwight loves living in Los Angeles and LA Lakers is his first choice, he doesn't want out just holding on his re-sign to see D'Antoni gone first and hope Mitch to add few solid missing pieces to the roster to do what it takes to make Lakers to be in title contention again and to increase his championship chance with the Lakers. Stop dreaming Chandler Parsons Dwight will not choose Houston over LA.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:11 pm

therealdeal wrote:Of course it's as cut and dry as it sounds. Even if state taxes completely nullified an extra 30 million dollars (I don't think it does), you're talking about the entertainment capital of the west coast and possibly the world.

Dwight recently signed on to do a voice for one of Disney's animated movies. Do you think Disney gives two s***s about Dwight if he isn't in Los Angeles? He was in Orlando minutes from their other park and I don't think he had that opportunity then either. And that is just the beginning. Do you think Adidas prefers the Los Angeles Lakers or the Houston Rockets for domestic and international sales? That answer is obvious.

The Chinese connection is established, but their even greater love happens to be Kobe Bryant who plays for the Los Angeles Lakers. Howard has a greater opportunity in that area playing with Kobe Bryant than he does playing in Houston with Jeremy Lin (who might not end up staying because of money issues if they got to Howard).


:man10:
We'll see. We've attracted so many free agents over the years with all LA has to offer... :man12:

Every year we watch as key vet players sign elsewhere for less than we can offer but let's not let facts get in the way of a wildly optimistic post....
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:08 pm

Image

It's not optimism it's the truth. If he leaves Los Angeles, he leaves money in his hand now AND in the future. There's no possible financial advantage to going to Houston on a long-term deal in comparison to Los Angeles even WITH the state tax situation.

I never said he wouldn't leave Los Angeles. There's reasons to leave. Finances just isn't one of them.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby wcsoldier81 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:05 am

Yeah I agree with therealdeal here ... and don't forget half of the games ( well a little less minus the SA and Dallas ones) are played outside Texas where the state tax advantage won't apply ( per Larry Coon).
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby LakerJack on Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:12 am

Doc just signed on as the Clips coach, so CP3 resigns, Dwight demands s&t to the Clips or he walks to Hous, Garnet wants to go to the Clips also and Bos wants Bledsoe & Jordan to start rebuilding. How do you feel about this trade to help all teams involved:
Lakers get Griffin and Rondo
Clips get Howard and Garnett
Boston gets Bledsoe, Jordan and fillers from both LA's.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby last stand on Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:47 am

LakerJack wrote:Doc just signed on as the Clips coach, so CP3 resigns, Dwight demands s&t to the Clips or he walks to Hous, Garnet wants to go to the Clips also and Bos wants Bledsoe & Jordan to start rebuilding. How do you feel about this trade to help all teams involved:
Lakers get Griffin and Rondo
Clips get Howard and Garnett
Boston gets Bledsoe, Jordan and fillers from both LA's.


rondo and griffin. that's a little different than bledsoe and griffen. you're getting a top 5 PG arguably top 3, and a great athlete who does try to work on his game

but the big downside is you make the clippers a better team than the lakers

howard
KG
butler
crawford
paul

good god

is creating that team really worth it.

pau
griffin
noone still
kobe
rondo

ok so yes it's a faster team than last year but is it better than the clippers now? no it's not.

i'd rather try to work out a 3 way trade with the clippers and boston for pau

pau to the clippers
rondo to the lakers
bledsoe and jordan to the celtics

obviously unlikely but that'd be more appealing to me
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby LakerJack on Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:10 am

last stand wrote:
LakerJack wrote:Doc just signed on as the Clips coach, so CP3 resigns, Dwight demands s&t to the Clips or he walks to Hous, Garnet wants to go to the Clips also and Bos wants Bledsoe & Jordan to start rebuilding. How do you feel about this trade to help all teams involved:
Lakers get Griffin and Rondo
Clips get Howard and Garnett
Boston gets Bledsoe, Jordan and fillers from both LA's.


rondo and griffin. that's a little different than bledsoe and griffen. you're getting a top 5 PG arguably top 3, and a great athlete who does try to work on his game

but the big downside is you make the clippers a better team than the lakers

howard
KG
butler
crawford
paul

good god

is creating that team really worth it.

pau
griffin
noone still
kobe
rondo

ok so yes it's a faster team than last year but is it better than the clippers now? no it's not.

i'd rather try to work out a 3 way trade with the clippers and boston for pau

pau to the clippers
rondo to the lakers
bledsoe and jordan to the celtics

obviously unlikely but that'd be more appealing to me[/quote

No way the Clips want Pau, it has to be Howard and face it he is not coming back to the Lakers.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby lakersin4 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:18 am

LakerJack wrote:Doc just signed on as the Clips coach, so CP3 resigns, Dwight demands s&t to the Clips or he walks to Hous, Garnet wants to go to the Clips also and Bos wants Bledsoe & Jordan to start rebuilding. How do you feel about this trade to help all teams involved:
Lakers get Griffin and Rondo
Clips get Howard and Garnett
Boston gets Bledsoe, Jordan and fillers from both LA's.

The league has said they won't allow a KG to LAC deal because it was tied in with the Rivers deal. So KG will have to go somewhere else in the deal. With the talk of KG getting a job with Min after he retires, maybe he finishes his career where he started it. A bit of an expansion on a 4 team deal I came up with before.

LA: Love, Dwill2, Rondo
LAC: D12 + AK47 + Blake
Bos: Bledsoe, Jordan, Butler or MWP, 1st
Min: Griffin, KG, Butler or MWP

I would love to see this go down.. & it really makes sense for every team involved. Rondo would help out a ton with stopping PG's from getting inside seemingly when they feel like it against us. We still wouldn't have a legit starting SF but Love will play a ton of minutes so Earl will likely see most of his time at SF.. I think Clark, Dwill2, & a FA gives us a solid SF platoon. Much better than MWP/Ebanks' ghost. We'd be soft inside on defense with Pau/Love but Hill will help with that when he's out there. & I'm sure we'll go after a tough defensive C in free agency. Birdman just showed us all that you don't need a 20M a year C to protect the rim effectively.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby abeer3 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:11 am

if Dwight wants to win so badly, and he so wants to avoid state taxes...why not sign in SA? pretty sure they can easily clear the space.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:18 am

I like the Minny proposal above - but would still dump Gasol. I soooooo wanted him traded for depth and pieces last year even before Mike D was hired. He is breaking down and still tentative. Frankly, he is no defense at the rim at all given his 2 inch vertical and slow feet.

Trade him to Denver for Iggy with any pics we get from LAC for Howard. I don't see Denver paying Iggy long term - he is 29 and has had some injuries recently. Gasol Den, Mil, or NO may be options.

Sign Gerald Henderson for MMLE.

Sign another athletic center to help protect the rim and rebound (like the poster above said).


A bench that can defend, run the break, and mesh well with the Vets (Nash, Kobe, Iggy, LO). Future around Rondo, Henderson, Clark, Love, and Hill. No need to wait until 2014 now - Bron aint coming, and we can get Rondo, Iggy, and Love now.

Nash (24 Mins - only 55 games); Kobe (30 mins - 62 games). Rondo will start all games Nash misses then come off the bench to get starter mins and play some SG too.

Nash, Rondo, Morris
Kobe, Henderson, Glock/Shannon Brown
Iggy, S. Williams (Kobe playing 8 mins per game here to post up)
Love, Clark
Hill, LO, Sacre (Clark at times)

Sure - weak at center, but there aren't many to worry about (and we all saw Howard's many deficiencies in the post).

Top 6 PG, with Nash too
Top 3 SG.
Top 6 SF (behind Bron, Melo, George. Etc).
Top 4 PF

That is crazy good, and all fit Mike D's system. Also, a crazt stopper unit to throw out there and protect leads:

Rondo, Henderson, Iggy, Clark, Hill. Giving Kobe and Love and Nash rest to close offensively.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:34 am

The only thing holding us back next season with all these "trades" is if our NBA2k disk scratches or not.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:37 am

therealdeal wrote:Image

It's not optimism it's the truth. If he leaves Los Angeles, he leaves money in his hand now AND in the future. There's no possible financial advantage to going to Houston on a long-term deal in comparison to Los Angeles even WITH the state tax situation.

I never said he wouldn't leave Los Angeles. There's reasons to leave. Finances just isn't one of them.


Image

I notice that you didn't address our attractiveness in the past.... even when we had championship teams. That is telling IMO. Asking a Vet to play for the minimum and losing 50%+ to taxes... or going to Miami or Dallas and keeping a whole lot more....

FYI..... where you reside 9 months out of the year is where you pay taxes. As a Business owner that has done work in 47 State I can tell you that ONLY THE TIME SPENT IN THAT STATE is not taxable in your 9 month residency state.... That's a Fact you can check with the State of CA if you like.

NBA Players do not get paid by the game... they are paid equally over 9 months.

The total taxation in CA for the "Rich" is about 60% of "Taxable Income". In Texas it's about 42% Property tax in CA is nearly 40% higher per $1,000 than it is in Texas. If you do the math it just about washes out the additional year. What that means is that he can get a contract for even more one year faster while making nearly the same money.

Endorsements. He's had plenty of endorsements over the years while playing in a very small market in Orlando..... Adidas is waiting for his next contract to sign him long term. I don't think that is dependent on LA either. Again... how that contract is structured will determine how it's taxed. If it's a annual contract with incentives it will be taxed at the rates effective where his 9 month residency is.

Money might not be THE reason he leaves but it won't be THE reason he stays either.

I still believe him when he's said he want's happiness and to be liked..... What he defines as "happiness" is the key to me. Needing to be "liked" isn't really a mark of a leader but I think most with open eyes can see he isn't going to be that anyway.

I've always thought he stays but only after a whole lot of drama...... and handicapping our offseason because we won't do anything else until that decision is made.
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