D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:23 pm

last stand wrote:People hate Howard for not winning a championship yet want love who as yet to even make the playoffs. Lol sounds pretty logical


Why do people "love" Howard? Dunks?.... Blocks into the 9th row?.... smiling in the face of a tough situation?.... the 12 time a year he hits two in a row at the line?... Showing the stat sheet to teammates and reporters after a loss?..... How he promises to work on his game in the offseason yet sets a new career low in FT% year after year?.... The masterful post moves?... the ability to hang on to the ball in traffic?..... Unexplainable fouls?...

Howard has a huge fan following for the ESPN Highlight plays not because he elevates his or his teammates game.

He's a great talent and a good player who needs a shot of reality. He has a chance (slim one at his age) to take a next step and grow with a team.... instead it seems he wants to play the same "me" games again this offseason as the previous two. Crappy teams like Orlando play along.... I hope this proud franchise doesn't. If the old man were still alive he most likely sent Howard the same place the other large guy that demanded to be paid went....

As for Love.. you're exactly right... he's done nothing either. The one big difference I see is that Howard want's to be the undisputed "guy" on a team and Love hasn't indicated that as of yet. I don't think you build a team with max players in the front court under this new CBA..... you've got to have the skilled positions be by far your first best players.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Helljumper on Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:45 pm

slimjim wrote:Howard's offensive game doesn't even warrant option 2 on a championship calibre roster. Any team paying Dwight Max money under the new CBA and expecting option 1 or 2 on offence will not win a ring.

The league is shifting in a major way. A team can no longer spend their way to a RING or cover flaws. Smart management will rules this new era/cba of basketball.

Dwight Howard being paid like he's option 1... is not smart management.


Yes, the league is shifting in a major way ... away from slowed down post-play and towards spacing the floor in order to allow athletes to attack the rim. That's what Orlando did to almost win a championship with Dwight as Option #1. They did that with Lewis, Turkoglu, and Alston. Mitch isn't as incompetent as Orlando management. He'll surround Dwight with the shooters he needs, but he'll also know how to allocate that money better. Imagine if Orlando had a cheaper player who could easily match Lewis's shooting ability, and replaced Lewis and his $20 million with a multidimensional two-way player who could be a legitimate #1 option from the perimeter in the clutch. That's what we'll have the flexibility to do. I'm shocked that you don't even think Dwight's a capable #2 option.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:01 pm

^^Imagine the previous CBA.....
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby last stand on Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:52 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
last stand wrote:People hate Howard for not winning a championship yet want love who as yet to even make the playoffs. Lol sounds pretty logical


This is actually kind of funny. Almost as funny as comparing Dwight to Lebron in the realm of game progression over the course of their respective careers. No one is hating on Dwight for not winning a championship and no one is saying Love is what Howard is in any shape. Of course Love has been playing on a bad team so it isn't his fault the team isn't in the playoffs.


My point was never that Lebron and Dwight have advanced the same amount skill wise. Dwight advanced from 2009-2011 plenty. Got hurt and wasn't the same coming back. I don't have any doubt we can win a championship with Dwight, just like I had no doubt that Lebron would become able to close and win championships
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:22 am

last stand wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:
last stand wrote:People hate Howard for not winning a championship yet want love who as yet to even make the playoffs. Lol sounds pretty logical


This is actually kind of funny. Almost as funny as comparing Dwight to Lebron in the realm of game progression over the course of their respective careers. No one is hating on Dwight for not winning a championship and no one is saying Love is what Howard is in any shape. Of course Love has been playing on a bad team so it isn't his fault the team isn't in the playoffs.


My point was never that Lebron and Dwight have advanced the same amount skill wise. Dwight advanced from 2009-2011 plenty. Got hurt and wasn't the same coming back. I don't have any doubt we can win a championship with Dwight, just like I had no doubt that Lebron would become able to close and win championships

Dwight has only marginally improved on the offensive end over the years.Nothing is a given just like Dwight getting hurt and not being nearly the player he was. Can he come back? sure but no one knows for sure.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby lakersin4 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:17 am

Helljumper wrote:
slimjim wrote:Howard's offensive game doesn't even warrant option 2 on a championship calibre roster. Any team paying Dwight Max money under the new CBA and expecting option 1 or 2 on offence will not win a ring.

The league is shifting in a major way. A team can no longer spend their way to a RING or cover flaws. Smart management will rules this new era/cba of basketball.

Dwight Howard being paid like he's option 1... is not smart management.


Yes, the league is shifting in a major way ... away from slowed down post-play and towards spacing the floor in order to allow athletes to attack the rim. That's what Orlando did to almost win a championship with Dwight as Option #1. They did that with Lewis, Turkoglu, and Alston. Mitch isn't as incompetent as Orlando management. He'll surround Dwight with the shooters he needs, but he'll also know how to allocate that money better. Imagine if Orlando had a cheaper player who could easily match Lewis's shooting ability, and replaced Lewis and his $20 million with a multidimensional two-way player who could be a legitimate #1 option from the perimeter in the clutch. That's what we'll have the flexibility to do. I'm shocked that you don't even think Dwight's a capable #2 option.

Dwight is still a good C to have with the shift of the league, since he doesn't have a post game for the shift away from it to impact his game. What he needs to do is swallow his pride, take all the lobs, easy dunks, putbacks etc he can, be the best rebounder in the league, & dominate on defense. If he does those things, he can no doubt be the best C in the league by a wide margin & also the 2nd best player on a championship team, but I think you need another 2B type guy that will put up 17-19 PPG taking those shots created by not forcing it into Dwight & letting him get stripped or sent to the line.

Everyone talks about how much Lebron worked on his game since going to Miami & he has certainly improved on the defensive end.. But much of his improvement on the offensive end was just a matter of playing to his strengths more than trying to prove he has a jumper.. If Dwight focuses on his strengths all of a sudden his overall game will look better too.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Helljumper on Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:07 am

lakersin4 wrote:
Helljumper wrote:
slimjim wrote:Howard's offensive game doesn't even warrant option 2 on a championship calibre roster. Any team paying Dwight Max money under the new CBA and expecting option 1 or 2 on offence will not win a ring.

The league is shifting in a major way. A team can no longer spend their way to a RING or cover flaws. Smart management will rules this new era/cba of basketball.

Dwight Howard being paid like he's option 1... is not smart management.


Yes, the league is shifting in a major way ... away from slowed down post-play and towards spacing the floor in order to allow athletes to attack the rim. That's what Orlando did to almost win a championship with Dwight as Option #1. They did that with Lewis, Turkoglu, and Alston. Mitch isn't as incompetent as Orlando management. He'll surround Dwight with the shooters he needs, but he'll also know how to allocate that money better. Imagine if Orlando had a cheaper player who could easily match Lewis's shooting ability, and replaced Lewis and his $20 million with a multidimensional two-way player who could be a legitimate #1 option from the perimeter in the clutch. That's what we'll have the flexibility to do. I'm shocked that you don't even think Dwight's a capable #2 option.

Dwight is still a good C to have with the shift of the league, since he doesn't have a post game for the shift away from it to impact his game. What he needs to do is swallow his pride, take all the lobs, easy dunks, putbacks etc he can, be the best rebounder in the league, & dominate on defense. If he does those things, he can no doubt be the best C in the league by a wide margin & also the 2nd best player on a championship team, but I think you need another 2B type guy that will put up 17-19 PPG taking those shots created by not forcing it into Dwight & letting him get stripped or sent to the line.

Everyone talks about how much Lebron worked on his game since going to Miami & he has certainly improved on the defensive end.. But much of his improvement on the offensive end was just a matter of playing to his strengths more than trying to prove he has a jumper.. If Dwight focuses on his strengths all of a sudden his overall game will look better too.


Agreed 100%
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Balance&Options24 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:45 am

They have a D12 Stay sign at Staples.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby denimPortugal on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:47 am

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Please... :disagree:
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby pound4pound1 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:49 am

denimPortugal wrote:Image

Please... :disagree:






pathetic...like it's Kobe entering free agency or something...that's just sad
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:51 am

Let the groveling begin!

(Though, am I the only one who thinks they could've used a please there? Looks like a dog command.)
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:54 am

I'm fine with it. The Lakers know what they're doing. They've been groveling since last summer when they traded for him. :man10:

The timing is great. The official signing time starts in a week and it's time to start reminding him that LA is his new home. We want him here. He's our future and we need to reinforce that.

And knowing how shaky our future is even WITH him, we really do need him back. The alternative is probably dooming this franchise to 7-8 years of mediocrity or worse.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:58 am

therealdeal wrote:I'm fine with it. The Lakers know what they're doing. They've been groveling since last summer when they traded for him. :man10:

The timing is great. The official signing time starts in a week and it's time to start reminding him that LA is his new home. We want him here. He's our future and we need to reinforce that.

And knowing how shaky our future is even WITH him, we really do need him back. The alternative is probably dooming this franchise to 7-8 years of mediocrity or worse.


You think so? I know there'd be uncertainty, and next season will pretty much be guaranteed to be just awful if Dwight walks, but beyond that we'd have flexibility and a front office that has done much more in the past with much less flexibility/assets.

I'd be cautiously optimistic that the ship can be righted much sooner than 7-8 years down the line. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby kennygee90 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:20 am

I don't even want to think of life without Howard...If we lose him there's no guarantees when we'll ever get a star of his caliber with this new cba..it can set us back 5-10 years..Dwight when healthy is a top 5 player and an mvp candidate, Kevin Love isn't.. unless we have Lebron or Durant, then no one will come close to impacting the game on both sides like Howard does..Just because we're the Lakers doesn't guarantee anything in free agency and the draft is a crap shoot, which is something I don't want to take my chances with...
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:22 am

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I'm fine with it. The Lakers know what they're doing. They've been groveling since last summer when they traded for him. :man10:

The timing is great. The official signing time starts in a week and it's time to start reminding him that LA is his new home. We want him here. He's our future and we need to reinforce that.

And knowing how shaky our future is even WITH him, we really do need him back. The alternative is probably dooming this franchise to 7-8 years of mediocrity or worse.


You think so? I know there'd be uncertainty, and next season will pretty much be guaranteed to be just awful if Dwight walks, but beyond that we'd have flexibility and a front office that has done much more in the past with much less flexibility/assets.

I'd be cautiously optimistic that the ship can be righted much sooner than 7-8 years down the line. Just my 2 cents.

Well here's the problems as I see them:

1. All that Cap Space and not a true star to spend it on. We likely overpay for someone who's even LESS of a star than Dwight Howard. Tie up our money in a second tier star like Rudy Gay.

2. Because of our Cap situation we don't get great role players. It takes years to find and develop the right role players for the right fit.

3. With our player situation dissolving, we start losing out on other FAs coming in.

4. In 3-4 years we're still hitched to an "okay" team instead of a rebuilding/rebuilt team. It takes a few more years after that to develop a kid that we like to be our "star".

If we keep Dwight, we've got more pull for more FAs, more coaches, etc. Our Cap room goes to better use. We rebuild instead in about 3-4 years.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Rooscooter on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:23 am

The ship being "righted" is the key phrase here. If by "Righted" one means a decent team that makes the playoffs (similar to the 90's) then yes we can be that by signing Howard and tweaking the rest of the roster with the limited assets available..... however if by "righted" one means championship contention then my feelings are that we are closer to that by blowing everything up. The new CBA isn't like the old one where we were able to exist above the cap forever and it really handicaps teams without first round picks.... we need the picks to rebuild with talent that are far cheaper than FA of the same quality in most cases.

Howard is a great player but he's not in the same zip code as Kobe in terms of a leader/finisher/impact player. 1 max slot and possibly 2 in the future.... I'm not sure it should be spent on front court players based on the way the game is being played and the skill level of the younger players. It's a "wings" league now... that should be the focus of rebuilding IMO.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby The Rock on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:29 am

https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/349941075676364800

Rival executives, more & more, list Houston as favorite in Dwight Sweepstakes ahead of Lakers. Trading T-Rob means Rockets can offer D12 max
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:30 am

If Dwight walks and we crash & burn next season, we'll have our own 1st round pick in 2014 in what people are speculating will be the best draft since '03. Something else to consider.

I'm not arguing that we will be better off if Dwight walks (we won't be), but I'm just saying we won't necessarily be obliterated long-term by it either.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Balance&Options24 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:31 am

The Lakers seem desperate with that move, something a team other than the Lakers would do.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:38 am

Balance&Options24 wrote:The Lakers seem desperate with that move, something a team other than the Lakers would do.


I think that stance is a little arrogant. Nothing wrong with showing your own free agent a little love. It's not exactly an over-the-top gesture.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:39 am

Balance&Options24 wrote:The Lakers seem desperate with that move, something a team other than the Lakers would do.

Why?
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:41 am

The FO needs to step up here if they want to keep Dwight.

They already missed a chance to lock him in, when they selected MDA and then backed MDA again after D12 said he doesn't prefer MDA. That was strike 1.

Do they make a move on draft night to show D12 they are making improvements to a team that has been running on E for the last 3 years? If not that's probably strike 2.

Do they make a move in FA or trade that will keep D12 here before he decides on what he wants to do? Playing with old man Nash, senile MWP and shrugs Gasol with no bench? Lakers FO needs to show D12 they are heading forward instead of treading water next season.

The FO might say D12 is the future, but looking at strike 1 compared to what the Clips did for their future players (Griffin/CP3), are they really they inclined to go all out to keep him?
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:46 am

Doc Brown wrote:The FO needs to step up here if they want to keep Dwight.

They already missed a chance to lock him in, when they selected MDA and then backed MDA again after D12 said he doesn't prefer MDA. That was strike 1.

Do they make a move on draft night to show D12 they are making improvements to a team that has been running on E for the last 3 years? If not that's probably strike 2.

Do they make a move in FA or trade that will keep D12 here before he decides on what he wants to do? Playing with old man Nash, senile MWP and shrugs Gasol with no bench? Lakers FO needs to show D12 they are heading forward instead of treading water next season.

The FO might say D12 is the future, but looking at strike 1 compared to what the Clips did for their future players (Griffin/CP3), are they really they inclined to go all out to keep him?

I agree.

The FO seems to be confused on whether or not they're trying to placate Kobe or build for the future. If they were really building for the future, MWP would be amnestied, Gasol would be traded, and they'd move forward already. Even if that means taking a dent in the 2014 plans.

They've really almost DARED Dwight to leave instead of invited him to stay. They haven't done a SINGLE thing to make this team more attractive to him. That worries me more than anything. Instead of just saying you want him here, make it obvious...
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby JLaker17 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:49 am

Doc Brown wrote:The FO needs to step up here if they want to keep Dwight.

They already missed a chance to lock him in, when they selected MDA and then backed MDA again after D12 said he doesn't prefer MDA. That was strike 1.

Do they make a move on draft night to show D12 they are making improvements to a team that has been running on E for the last 3 years? If not that's probably strike 2.

Do they make a move in FA or trade that will keep D12 here before he decides on what he wants to do? Playing with old man Nash, senile MWP and shrugs Gasol with no bench? Lakers FO needs to show D12 they are heading forward instead of treading water next season.

The FO might say D12 is the future, but looking at strike 1 compared to what the Clips did for their future players (Griffin/CP3), are they really they inclined to go all out to keep him?


Great post. They have to improve the roster somehow, because right now we are just and old injury prone team. Could we make it out of the first round, possibly. But this roster and coaching staff doesn't have championship on it.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Postby Balance&Options24 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:52 am

therealdeal wrote:
Balance&Options24 wrote:The Lakers seem desperate with that move, something a team other than the Lakers would do.

Why?

Just does not seem like something the Lakers do, never did it for Kobe.


The Lakers, especially Mitch have been adamant about want Dwight back no need for a billboard, but I guess they feel they are dealing with a different type of guy, One who needs to be shown he is wanted. We as fans haven't fully backed him merely because of free agency but as soon as he signs on the dotted line I'm sure most Laker fans will give him the full support. I for one want to see him back with a summer of getting healthy, I think we'll see a better Dwight next year.
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