Doberman wrote:You're missing the point here: Orlando is actually TRYING to keep him. They have and will continue to try until their time runs out - which won't be til 2013. Denver didn't trade Carmelo until they were in the same situation (his contract was expiring). We're not there yet Dwight.
Again, you fail to address the fact that Williams was moved midseason in a similar situation: Utah needed to rebuild. Orlando will move Dwight now if they find the right package.
Doberman wrote:Yes. 2013. Not today like you're trying to make it sound.
I'm not doing anything of the sort. I'm not sure why you continue to display this arrogance but it's extremely irritating and you're truly tempting me to give you an official warning for baiting me.
Doberman wrote:You're avoiding mine just the same as I've addressed this many times now: Orlando WANTS TO KEEP HIM.
This is something you've just started to say. You've been pointing out that they would move him for expiring contracts. This is a new argument that I would be willing to debate.
Doberman wrote: They're not trying to trade him right now. He's NOT ON THE MARKET right now. I'm not sure why you won't accept this. You're proposing deals in a situation that doesn't exist. Howard won't be a FA in 2012, he will be in 2013. Therefore he won't be traded until then. It's that simple.
You asked for something, I provided it and now you're changing your story. I'm proposing deals that asked me to propose. You wanted examples, I provided them and now they're useless because you said so? Okay then.
Doberman wrote:It's not either or. Nothing says he can't have both which is what he'll be aiming for (all athletes do). Him playing out his contract doesn't preclude him from being traded to LA.
No it doesn't, but time is a factor whether you want to admit it or not. The faster he's in LA the more time he has to build those business opportunities that he's looking for. Wait a season and you never know what could happen that could keep him out of LA.
Doberman wrote:Yours fail to account for fundamental factors of the situation (i.e. big market, top tier contender, 2013 plan). And I've already made my proposal, which is the whole reason you're posting right now.
No they don't, they're just as feasible as yours was if not more. Your proposal is also full of presumptions, as any proposal made by a fan is. It's the nature of being a fan and not being a GM or legal council. That is my point.
Doberman wrote:Simple math and logic. $19 million and 8% raises for the next for years or about $15 million and 4.5% raises in the next 4 years. Which would you choose? And please don't come back with "he'll make up the difference in endosements", because as I already said, he can have the big contract and still come to LA for the big market.
Last warning: I will not stand to be talked down to. Your arrogance does not promote discussion it promotes anger which is by definition baiting. Enough. Either debate like an adult, or don't do it all.
You're damn straight I'll come back with he'll earn more through endorsements. And it's not four years, it's one year. No matter what he does, his next contract is going to be signed under the new CBA. If he doesn't opt out, he gets his 19,536,360 million. Then he signs a four year deal somewhere under the new CBA. However, he could choose to opt out, sign in LA for (your estimated) 15 million. He'd immediately be a marketing juggernaut. He may not make up 4 million immediately, but endorsements would roll in like there's no tomorrow. I don't know the numbers from 2010-2011, but just a few years ago Kobe was making over 20 million a year in endorsements alone. I'm sure Dwight is getting something massive for his endorsements already, but there'd be an insane boost in those numbers just from being in LA. Say he wins a couple rings here and that number just went up even more. The sooner he gets to LA the better, why wait for an extra 4 million when he can come to LA and get 10s of millions.
Doberman wrote:Because they want to keep him as long as possible, and if they can't, they can still get expiring contracts. They have no reason to rush. You want to believe they must only because you want to believe the deal will happen ASAP.
I don't believe this deal is going to happen at all. I think it SHOULD happen, that it COULD happen, but not that it necessarily will. Either now or in the future. But again, why wait? Why prolong the inevitable?
Doberman wrote:With just Durant and Howard they have a good foundation. But no, unless they're deep, they're not going to win it all.
If I remember correctly I left them with two stars and basically all their role players still. Not to mention their strong front lineup still. They'd do extremely well considering they've made great runs the way they are now.
Doberman wrote:Miami's big 3 was a bigger juggernaut and they lost to a team that was more loaded. You're not going to get it done with JUST two stars.
Just two stars? Did Dallas have more than that? Nowitski and...Kidd? Who else is a star on that team? They had a team where they all knew their roles. That's it. The Magic in 09 made it to Finals with only one real star. It's not that far fetched. The Heat weren't built well at all as a team, that's why they lost.
Doberman wrote:That doesn't match his criteria. Denver is out.
Doberman wrote:I've replied succinctly and factually to all your points. If you think I'm giving you attitude, I don't know what to say. That's simply your inference and not the reality of the matter, but I also find it ironic since it was your first response to me that was pretty snide, yet I ignored it and simply addressed your points. You've also admitted that you're letting yourself get worked up on the matter, so I don't think you're being entirely fair right now and letting your emotions get the best of you.
As Alcindor pointed out, your arrogance has upset me. You will either stop or be warned for baiting.
Doberman wrote:If Okl can net another star, then maybe. But not to the Denver deal. A "good run" is not good enough for him.
I was unaware that you knew Dwight's thoughts on the matter. You don't know if Denver could be a destination or not. If the situation looked good, why wouldn't he? He wants to win and Denver could potentially be that team depending on how things shake out.
Doberman wrote:Denver? Really?
Doberman wrote:Orlando wouldn't accept the deal, or ANY deal this year, because they don't have to move him. They'll keep him as long as they can.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I do not agree.