Dwight Discussion: Houston we have a problem (986)

Chillbongo wrote:It's also easy to say there's "no one better overall" when you aren't paying the bills.

For the impact he's made on this team offensively, he aint worth $20M.

Point blank.

I can also understand this argument. I think at the end of the day it comes down to will his performance improve (getting healthier, change of system/culture) or is this what he is now.

Hopefully by the end of the season we have a better idea.

821 pages.

Cool. Mitch will find someone better and cheaper then.

For once, I have to go along with Plaschke. Do we want this guy to be The Man? Kobe was practically begging D12 to get in his face and say how he felt about what's going on. Says a lot that D12 couldn't do that. Kobe has at least some respect for guys who stand up for themselves even when he doesn't agree with them. It has occurred to me that the way to get Kobe's respect is to get in his face and not be afraid of him. Which explains why Kobe liked Fisher, he likes Blake, etc. I think Kobe has lost respect for D12 at this point.

At the same time, it's clear D12 is not what he used to be. But I also don't believe D'Antoni is the coach for him anymore. Any other coach in the league would be salivating to have two excellent post players, each with their own gifts, but D'Antoni? Nah, he doesn't like post play and it shows. I'm not convinced PJax would have been a better hire, but I am convinced that baseball cap boy blew it with MDA as he did with Brown. Damn, why, oh why didn't baseball cap boy get Adelman way back when? Adelman is adaptable, willing to tweak his system to the players he has, knows how to get guys playing together, none of which describe Brown and MDA.

^I said during Dwightmare that I didn't see Dwight as a franchise player. We have to acquire a #1 guy (hopefully Kyrie Irving) when Nash and Kobe are gone. Unfortunately, D12 doesn't see it that way.

So, do you guys suggest we let Dwight go or trade him for two young players instead?

karacha wrote:So, do you guys suggest we let Dwight go or trade him for two young players instead?

depends on the young players obviously, but id lean towards keeping him. even if he decides he wants to leave, his heart seems set on brooklyn. we can sign and trade him in the offseason and at least get something back if it comes to that

but i still think he stays and with an offseason to heal and rehab comes back like old dwight next year

karacha wrote:So, do you guys suggest we let Dwight go or trade him for two young players instead?

Hard to say. I still believe we need to have a big man in the middle to win a chip. If D12 doesn't want to be here, I'd try trading D12 for Hibbert or Marc Gasol, whose personalities are more likely to mesh with Kobe and whomever we sign after Kobe and Nash retire. But Indiana probably turns it down. They love Hibbert. Maybe Memphis would go for it.

revgen wrote:

karacha wrote:So, do you guys suggest we let Dwight go or trade him for two young players instead?

Hard to say. I still believe we need to have a big man in the middle to win a chip. I'd try trading D12 for Hibbert or Marc Gasol, whose personalities are more likely to mesh with Kobe and whomever we sign after Kobe and Nash retire. But Indiana probably turns it down. They love Hibbert. Maybe Memphis would go for it.

Yep. Only B personality types are going to be able to co-exist with Kobe.

I would do those deals IF... Kobe was going to stick around for more years. But if he's bailing after next season, I'd rather just have Dwight although I do like Marc Gasol a lot more than Hibbert.

You guys sound stupid trying to trade the best C in the NBA who is 80% & still doing better than a healthy Bynum...

Kobe/Dwight/Nash should be untouchable, with more fitting players this is a championship roster.

revgen wrote:

karacha wrote:So, do you guys suggest we let Dwight go or trade him for two young players instead?

Hard to say. I still believe we need to have a big man in the middle to win a chip. If D12 doesn't want to be here, I'd try trading D12 for Hibbert or Marc Gasol, whose personalities are more likely to mesh with Kobe and whomever we sign after Kobe and Nash retire. But Indiana probably turns it down. They love Hibbert. Maybe Memphis would go for it.

Hibbert? You have got to be kidding me....Gasol? Not over Dwight we will still have no defense. Don't be a fool man, Dwight is the best C & these lob sided offers you want to make are making us fans look desperate.

GoldenKnight wrote:

revgen wrote:

karacha wrote:So, do you guys suggest we let Dwight go or trade him for two young players instead?

Hard to say. I still believe we need to have a big man in the middle to win a chip. If D12 doesn't want to be here, I'd try trading D12 for Hibbert or Marc Gasol, whose personalities are more likely to mesh with Kobe and whomever we sign after Kobe and Nash retire. But Indiana probably turns it down. They love Hibbert. Maybe Memphis would go for it.

Hibbert? You have got to be kidding me....Gasol? Not over Dwight we will still have no defense. Don't be a fool man, Dwight is the best C & these lob sided offers you want to make are making us fans look desperate.

Yeah but the only solution might be to get players who don't want to be the man.

I would not count on Kobe being the man dor too long. It's time to build a new young team. I would take that risk and keep Dwight and try to pair him with another star in 2014. But that's just me, of course. I would not try to get a guy to 'get along with Kobe'. Also, i think Dwight still sells tickets. That's important too.

GoldenKnight wrote:

revgen wrote:

karacha wrote:So, do you guys suggest we let Dwight go or trade him for two young players instead?

Hard to say. I still believe we need to have a big man in the middle to win a chip. If D12 doesn't want to be here, I'd try trading D12 for Hibbert or Marc Gasol, whose personalities are more likely to mesh with Kobe and whomever we sign after Kobe and Nash retire. But Indiana probably turns it down. They love Hibbert. Maybe Memphis would go for it.

Hibbert? You have got to be kidding me....Gasol? Not over Dwight we will still have no defense. Don't be a fool man, Dwight is the best C & these lob sided offers you want to make are making us fans look desperate.

Nobody said that D12 wasn't better than Hibbert or Gasol. What we're questioning is whether D12 is really a #1 guy on a team. So far, he's TO prone, his offensive repertoire stinks, and he can't even hit his FT's. If he can't see himself as anything else except "the man", then we need to consider alternatives.

GoldenKnight wrote:You guys sound stupid trying to trade the best C in the NBA who is 80% & still doing better than a healthy Bynum...

Kobe/Dwight/Nash should be untouchable, with more fitting players this is a championship roster.

karacha wrote:So, do you guys suggest we let Dwight go or trade him for two young players instead?

Can't let him walk. Even though we got Dwight, we still gave up Bynum. We have to work out at least a sign & trade.

Thing is Indiana & Memphis are good right now, and have no reason to blow it up. I would love a guy like Hibbert though. And agreed, we need someone big in the middle for a championship squad.

Out of the top 25 or so players in the league, these are really the only "available" players. And they're not even truly all avilable, they're just the ones on teams needing improvement.

James Harden
Kyrie Irving
Josh Smith
Lamarcus Aldrige
Rajon Rondo

Call me crazy, but I think we have the best chance of getting Rondo. More so than Irving. Unless Gilbert thinks a Dion Waiter/Dwight combo has potential.

No idea if the pieces fit, but if we got Rondo we would obviously move Nash. Not saying I want Rondo, just looking at the best players out there. I also feel that Kobe and Rondo would either absolutely resent each other, or love each other. Besides Kobe, Rondo is one guy that absolutely HATES losing.

karacha wrote:I would not count on Kobe being the man dor too long. It's time to build a new young team. I would take that risk and keep Dwight and try to pair him with another star in 2014. But that's just me, of course. I would not try to get a guy to 'get along with Kobe'. Also, i think Dwight still sells tickets. That's important too.

Really? I mean take this season out of it. Take the 42 mpg away. You don't think Kobe can be "the man"?

I agree part of the thing with Kobe these last few years is that we've been intent on building an instant contender. When you have a once every 15 years player in Kobe, you kind of have to forget everything (if you're the Lakers) and build around him to win.

I'm upset we lost so many picks and all that. But it's a 2 way street. We don't see the success we saw over the last 5 years without Kobe.

I dunno I'd still rather build around Kobe than Dwight. If it came between the two....yep I'd take Kobe. And I also don't think he's done after next year if we right this sinking ship.

Can't deny his ethic, intelligence, mindset, skill level, and undeniable need to win. Dwight don't have that, probably never will.

We should definitely move Nash as an expiring in 2014. And get a good PG. I would pair that guy with Dwight because I don't think we'll be able to find another really good big man.

1. Trading Howard is silly. Whatever we get in return doesn't make us contenders AND would likely ruin the rebuild in 2014.

2. Howard is the best big man in the game, building around him is a good idea.

3. If Howard were to walk this summer, oh well. Our rebuild goes through and is EVEN MORE POTENT. We then move Nash's contract (if he hasn't retired by then), and we have literally NOTHING on the books. We are free to do ANYTHING we want.

Rigth now, i believe Kobe is the guy. In 2 years? No. I want a new team if possible. Can Kobe take the back seat? I don't know. Maybe he can.

So it sounds to me like in 2 years Kobe won't be the #1 option on a team to win a ring.

Dang...that makes me sad. I think this season is screwing it up more than anything. This was supposed to be his "resting" years. And instead he's playing like 2005-06 Kobe.

I don't know if I agree, but I also believe that the best chance we have to win a ring, is right now, with kobe as #1, with Dwight, or with some combination of players that we can trade Dwight & Pau for.

And I think we have a greater chance to win rings that way as opposed to re-building around Dwight and waiting for 2014 superstar to fall in our laps.

Correct me if I am wrong, but every time we have acquired a superstar via free agency, it is because we were a good team on the cusp of being great. (Shaq, Wilt, etc).

therealdeal wrote:1. Trading Howard is silly. Whatever we get in return doesn't make us contenders AND would likely ruin the rebuild in 2014.

2. Howard is the best big man in the game, building around him is a good idea.

3. If Howard were to walk this summer, oh well. Our rebuild goes through and is EVEN MORE POTENT. We then move Nash's contract (if he hasn't retired by then), and we have literally NOTHING on the books. We are free to do ANYTHING we want.

I would agree for the most part because of point 3, but I don't agree that trading Dwight is stupid in a few cases. Like if you could get Kevin Love for him, I think that would be more awesome than stupid.

karacha wrote:So, do you guys suggest we let Dwight go or trade him for two young players instead?

If he continues this destructive behavior I'd put serious thought into it. The problem is that he still really wants to be in Brooklyn most of all, so it will be extortion prices I'm afraid.

What this team needs is numbers of good to very good young players at this point. I think it's safe to say that this group, regardless of who's coach, isn't going to get back to the finals. So that gives us a couple choices.... trade Pau for a couple pieces and hope they are the ones that make the mixture work..... or start over.

Starting over with no picks and no young talent is going to take forever if we don't trade the big contracts because we have 4 max players coming off contracts BUT we can only sign 1 max player realistically because we don't have draft picks to compensate for signing high priced players in fewer numbers vs having to spread the salary cap over 14 players..... all free agents in a couple years. So Pau, Howard and Nash could go out for picks, youth and maybe one "max" type player to keep for the post Kobe era..... If Howard doesn't want to be here.... or only wants to be here if he's catered to at every turn.... I'd get what ever I could because the odds of us being able to rebuild in "his window" are fairly remote as well..... especially when he'll get Franchise Money while not being the guy you can count on when you need a bucket.....

Weezy wrote:

therealdeal wrote: 3. If Howard were to walk this summer, oh well. Our rebuild goes through and is EVEN MORE POTENT. We then move Nash's contract (if he hasn't retired by then), and we have literally NOTHING on the books. We are free to do ANYTHING we want.

I would agree for the most part because of point 3, but I don't agree that trading Dwight is stupid in a few cases. Like if you could get Kevin Love for him, I think that would be more awesome than stupid.

What makes everyone so confident we will have a potent rebuild in 2014?

Like I said in the past the Lakers have usually gotten TOP-tier players via free agency when we're pretty good and on the cusp of being great.

Frankly, we are not good or great today. I don't know if trading Pau will turn us from *this* to good but if it does, then sure. Re-sign Dwight, renegotiate contracts, and contend.

edit: losing Dwight this summer essentially ends the Kobe era. We're not going to scramble and put together a cotender while Kobe can still lead. I'm not ready to let that happen hence my willing to trade Dwight should it come to that.

Chillbongo wrote:

Weezy wrote:

therealdeal wrote: 3. If Howard were to walk this summer, oh well. Our rebuild goes through and is EVEN MORE POTENT. We then move Nash's contract (if he hasn't retired by then), and we have literally NOTHING on the books. We are free to do ANYTHING we want.

I would agree for the most part because of point 3, but I don't agree that trading Dwight is stupid in a few cases. Like if you could get Kevin Love for him, I think that would be more awesome than stupid.

What makes everyone so confident we will have a potent rebuild in 2014?

Like I said in the past the Lakers have usually gotten TOP-tier players via free agency when we're pretty good and on the cusp of being great.

Frankly, we are not good or great today. I don't know if trading Pau will turn us from *this* to good but if it does, then sure. Re-sign Dwight, renegotiate contracts, and contend.

I think an infusion of just 1-2 guys could make us a good team right now. You never know how these things happen, all of the sudden the vibe and culture of a team starts changing from just a couple guys doing great things.

I think that could get us to being a playoff team and put us in a good place with the expiring contracts we'll have coming off the books in 2014 to make a run at someone great to put us over the top.

This is how it works out in my mind.