Dwight Discussion: D12 felt marginalized by MDA (989)

I wouldn't be surprised if Mitch went after Josh Smith. They are standing to lose a big investment in T.O. and they will be in "please the crybaby mode" to keep him here long term.

Doc Brown wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Mitch went after Josh Smith. They are standing to lose a big investment in T.O. and they will be in "please the crybaby mode" to keep him here long term.

If I were placing abet with my own money, I bet this is what happens.

If it does, I hope he stays. Not sure how much more loss of face Jimmy can handle...

TIME wrote:I'm over Dwight.

Like I said a couple weeks ago, keep Kobe, Hill, and Clark. trade the rest, to include the coach.

Weezy wrote:I argued these points already a few pages back. Basically I don't agree, Dwight is not Shaq, I don't see him ever being Shaq, doesn't have the size or the offensive game, or even Shaq's desire to win, no messing around attitude when it came time to. Also, if Kobe isn't good enough next to Dwight nobody will be, unless Durant or LeBron are coming here to be the man to Dwight's... whatever he is, I don't want to see him get the max to be here. I don't care who the next best big is, again, I don't say to keep /be stuck by default. Anyway again, I've said this all before and I'm sure I'll say it again, and if we keep Dwight as our guy for years to come I'm sure I'll be doing a lot of whining and complaining as we wallow in mediocrity.

Well he doesn't have to be Shaq... He just has to be Dwight...

Shaq dominated in a league where there were far more effective big men. Shaq today would likely win games surrounded by our bench players because he literally would be unstoppable.

But in today's fast paced game, there's not a tone of big men out there that are even in the same stratosphere as Dwight let alone Shaq. Maybe Lopez. Maybe Bynum. That's about it. And considering we won't get (or want) either of those, I'm keeping Dwight as long as he signs the contract.

When measured against the greatest, no one is going to shine. Heck Kobe has been torn down for years by fans outside of LA because he doesn't measure up to Jordan. People couldn't appreciate him for what he was. Same is happening with LeBron. And you're doing the same now with our latest prima dona.

I'm not saying I definitely want him, but honestly there's a TON of merit in keeping him. In two years he won't have Kobe to butt heads with anyway, so that won't be an issue. D'Antoni will almost certainly be fired and Nash retired. You say well who are we supposed to put next to him... Well isn't that what makes the future exciting?

And yes there's better options to put next to him than Kobe Bryant in his 17th season. I think what Dwight is (or should be) learning this season is invaluable to him, but it doesn't make him the greatest fit ever. There's a young player out there who would fit next to Dwight for sure. We just would have to find him.

And if you lose Dwight for something else... who's to say THAT kid is good enough? Who's to say that Kyrie Irving is good enough?

Weezy wrote:

therealdeal wrote:

Weezy wrote:

Punk-101 wrote:

TIME wrote:I'm over Dwight.

I'm absolutely, positively set on not committing to this guy. Trade him or let him walk. I wouldn't even want a heathy Dwight because he's not happy here and he's a cancer, imo. Here's my blame pie of why he's not happy: 60% never wanted to be here in the first place as was widely reported, 20% he's frustrated with his injuries, 10% he doesn't mesh with Kobe's personality and style of play, 10% he doesn't like MDA's system and his role.

I'm so glad to not be alone in wanting Dwight to be shown the door as soon as possible. Some are still defending him, which is fine, but also calling us shortsighted and dumb, which I obviously feel is wrong. I think I am looking out for the franchises' best interest not wanting Dwight to stay.

I'm fine with him staying as long as he's fine with staying.

Who's the next best big man? In fact, who's the next best Center we can get that's somewhere among the top big men? There isn't one. Big men are a premium and you need to keep the guy you get your hands on.

That being said, if he's serious about not wanting to be here. If he's 100% not re-signing I trade him now. I dont' think he's 100% anything and I don't think he walks away from 30 million so he's probably here forever.

In two years when we pair him with another star, all of this stupid drama will go away. Is he a winner? No. but neither was Shaq until he had a young Kobe Bryant and a young Dwayne Wade. Maybe Dwight isn't a winner until we find him his young running man.

I argued these points already a few pages back. Basically I don't agree, Dwight is not Shaq, I don't see him ever being Shaq, doesn't have the size or the offensive game, or even Shaq's desire to win, no messing around attitude when it came time to. Also, if Kobe isn't good enough next to Dwight nobody will be, unless Durant or LeBron are coming here to be the man to Dwight's... whatever he is, I don't want to see him get the max to be here. I don't care who the next best big is, again, I don't say to keep /be stuck by default. Anyway again, I've said this all before and I'm sure I'll say it again, and if we keep Dwight as our guy for years to come I'm sure I'll be doing a lot of whining and complaining as we wallow in mediocrity.

Ding Ding Ding!!!! Even at 34 years old Kobe is better than 98% of the players in the game and against his better judgement has bent over backwards trying to make this "delusional-about-his-game" prima donna.... number 1..... more effective for the good of the team and....number 2....."happy" for the good of the franchise when he (Kobe) leaves, or at least so no one can say Kobe ran off another dominant Big Man. Dwight plain and simple it is clear to me does not have the heart of a champion. We have seen front and center too many of them on the Lakers in the past. With the freaking A List of "winners" who have come before this diva.

Weezy wrote:

Punk-101 wrote:

TIME wrote:I'm over Dwight.

I'm absolutely, positively set on not committing to this guy. Trade him or let him walk. I wouldn't even want a heathy Dwight because he's not happy here and he's a cancer, imo. Here's my blame pie of why he's not happy: 60% never wanted to be here in the first place as was widely reported, 20% he's frustrated with his injuries, 10% he doesn't mesh with Kobe's personality and style of play, 10% he doesn't like MDA's system and his role.

I'm so glad to not be alone in wanting Dwight to be shown the door as soon as possible. Some are still defending him, which is fine, but also calling us shortsighted and dumb, which I obviously feel is wrong. I think I am looking out for the franchises' best interest not wanting Dwight to stay.

Lol I don't think anyone called anyone dumb. Let's not be dramatic

Dwight is not 100% but that doesn't excuse his lack of hustle at times on both ends.

Also, quit your silly trade demands & wishes already, Dwight just reassured Mitch told him personally he won't be traded. When Dwight is healthy again we will all eat our words.

We will not do better than Dwight, he is here to stay for this season, & we should give him the max because he is a superstar & he will be healthy again. Love it or hate it, Dwight is here to stay, unless he leaves.

khmrP wrote:

Legendary wrote:Stephen A. Smith is saying Dwight wants out of L.A., and that Dwight told Rudy Gay he's going to Brooklyn.

"Not happy being in L.A., not happy playing alongside Kobe."

Here's the podcast...go to about the 33:47 mark. http://espn.go.com/espnradio/newyork/play?id=8948652

Transcript is HERE.

Take it for what it's worth.

So he hates kobe that much to sign with bk for vet min?

S.A.S said that Dwight told this to Rudy Gay in the game where the Lakers played the Raptors, this is incredibly false because the last time we played them in Toronto Rudy Gay wasn't even traded yet & Calderon torched us. How could you be a real Laker fan & not know this is a piece of crap made rumor quite easy to dismantle?

GoldenKnight wrote:Dwight is not 100% but that doesn't excuse his lack of hustle at times on both ends.

Also, quit your silly trade demands & wishes already, Dwight just reassured Mitch told him personally he won't be traded. When Dwight is healthy again we will all eat our words.

We will not do better than Dwight, he is here to stay for this season, & we should give him the max because he is a superstar & he will be healthy again. Love it or hate it, Dwight is here to stay, unless he leaves.

Great, once he's 100% healthy and Kobe has retired he can lead our franchise to the kind of amazing success that the Magic enjoyed while he was there.

That is until he finds a way to have beef with someone on the team who doesnt give him the full and abject subservience that he CLEARLY deserves, starts pointing fingers, and looking for a way out.

Havent we seen this story before?

I fundamentally reject this idea of "wait until he's healthy, you'll see."

What if this is the new normal? If I was gimped and a shadow of myself, but wanted a big payday, I guess I'd claim to only be "75 percent" too and wait for the ink to be dry.

Dwight is NOT playing like a max player, let alone a "superstar". The way some people talk about it, it's some forgone conclusion that LA needs to max him out because he's here, and you know... He's D12!

I hope to god Mitch views things differently.

Essentially there are two arguments:

One side is that D12 isn't healthy, and is playing himself back into form. He needs to have the magic offseason tonic, and he will return a stronger player. Meanwhile, nothing he does right now in the media or on the court should have any effect on giving him a max contract next season.

The other end of the argument is that Dwight has been mediocre on the court, not shown hustle and effort, and has not shown anything in the media to show he's matured. His offensive game is as fundamentally flawed as it has always been, and he physically has not shown much improvement over the season. Is this really a responsible choice for the franchise?

Injuries CHANGE players. It happens. Do we just take D12 at his word, open up the vault and let the chips fall where they may? He has shown NOTHING this year to warrant a payday. Nothing.

GoldenKnight wrote:

khmrP wrote:

Legendary wrote:Stephen A. Smith is saying Dwight wants out of L.A., and that Dwight told Rudy Gay he's going to Brooklyn.

"Not happy being in L.A., not happy playing alongside Kobe."

Here's the podcast...go to about the 33:47 mark. http://espn.go.com/espnradio/newyork/play?id=8948652

Transcript is HERE.

Take it for what it's worth.

So he hates kobe that much to sign with bk for vet min?

S.A.S said that Dwight told this to Rudy Gay in the game where the Lakers played the Raptors, this is incredibly false because the last time we played them in Toronto Rudy Gay wasn't even traded yet & Calderon torched us. How could you be a real Laker fan & not know this is a piece of crap made rumor quite easy to dismantle?

We were in Memphis right before that around the time of the trade. Likely SAS had a misspeak or the equivalent of a typo. Why "TF" would even he manufacture a story and name names. Quick way to get ultimately fired. He likes his job. Gets to scream a lot.

LTLakerFan wrote:

GoldenKnight wrote:

khmrP wrote:

Legendary wrote:Stephen A. Smith is saying Dwight wants out of L.A., and that Dwight told Rudy Gay he's going to Brooklyn.

"Not happy being in L.A., not happy playing alongside Kobe."

Here's the podcast...go to about the 33:47 mark. http://espn.go.com/espnradio/newyork/play?id=8948652

Transcript is HERE.

Take it for what it's worth.

So he hates kobe that much to sign with bk for vet min?

S.A.S said that Dwight told this to Rudy Gay in the game where the Lakers played the Raptors, this is incredibly false because the last time we played them in Toronto Rudy Gay wasn't even traded yet & Calderon torched us. How could you be a real Laker fan & not know this is a piece of crap made rumor quite easy to dismantle?

We were in Memphis right before that around the time of the trade. Likely SAS had a misspeak or the equivalent of a typo. Why "TF" would even he manufacture a story and name names. Quick way to get ultimately fired. He likes his job. Gets to scream a lot.

He said a "source" told him, that's not naming names. Why would the media make up a rumor? Maybe because it's their job to stir controversy. Why would they fire him for doing his job? "Sources" Is a way to blame somebody else when it's a lie & when something is manufactured. He didn't only say Raptors once so it wasn't a typo, especially not on ESPN without a later correction. Get real.

Who cares. It doesn't take a genius to notice Dwight doesn't seem to gel with this team. I don't really care who said what and when.

Weezy wrote:"Delusion, panic, shortsightedness", not far off dumb if you ask me, basically sayin anyone who doesn't way Dwight here is only speaking with those things and is wrong. If you have a point, make it, argue it, don't come in here telling me how I'm delusional and shortsighted for not sharing the same view as you, that's not an argument, that's an insult.

none of those are even close to dumb. ridiculous. dumb implies that i questioned intelligence. which isn't true. i have no idea what your trying to do by implying that i called people dumb.

delusion- something that is falsely believed or propagated
Panic- a sudden unreasoning terror that often accompanied by mass flight
shortsightedness- lacking foresight

dumb- lacking intelligence.

the above 3 apply very well, the word dumb was never used, nor is it close. i made my point, wanting dwight gone, or wanting to just trade him for garbage invokes all 3 of the words i used. plain and simple. it's shortsighted behavior, panicking because of the media, and delusional that the team is better off for it.

SpencerHarrison wrote:I fundamentally reject this idea of "wait until he's healthy, you'll see."

What if this is the new normal? If I was gimped and a shadow of myself, but wanted a big payday, I guess I'd claim to only be "75 percent" too and wait for the ink to be dry.

Dwight is NOT playing like a max player, let alone a "superstar". The way some people talk about it, it's some forgone conclusion that LA needs to max him out because he's here, and you know... He's D12!

I hope to god Mitch views things differently.

Essentially there are two arguments:

One side is that D12 isn't healthy, and is playing himself back into form. He needs to have the magic offseason tonic, and he will return a stronger player. Meanwhile, nothing he does right now in the media or on the court should have any effect on giving him a max contract next season.

The other end of the argument is that Dwight has been mediocre on the court, not shown hustle and effort, and has not shown anything in the media to show he's matured. His offensive game is as fundamentally flawed as it has always been, and he physically has not shown much improvement over the season. Is this really a responsible choice for the franchise?

Injuries CHANGE players. It happens. Do we just take D12 at his word, open up the vault and let the chips fall where they may? He has shown NOTHING this year to warrant a payday. Nothing.

its not magic offseason tonic. it's called evidence over the years that a full offseason with no rehab allows a player to get at the minimum closer to their original self. how close varies, but it's not magic. it's called rest, training, eating, consistent sleeping, and time focused on training as opposed to rehab.

rehab is getting back to status quo, training is improving. there is a big difference and to think so is just ignoring years and years of evidence

last stand wrote:

Weezy wrote:"Delusion, panic, shortsightedness", not far off dumb if you ask me, basically sayin anyone who doesn't way Dwight here is only speaking with those things and is wrong. If you have a point, make it, argue it, don't come in here telling me how I'm delusional and shortsighted for not sharing the same view as you, that's not an argument, that's an insult.

none of those are even close to dumb. ridiculous. dumb implies that i questioned intelligence. which isn't true. i have no idea what your trying to do by implying that i called people dumb.

delusion- something that is falsely believed or propagated
Panic- a sudden unreasoning terror that often accompanied by mass flight
shortsightedness- lacking foresight

dumb- lacking intelligence.

the above 3 apply very well, the word dumb was never used, nor is it close. i made my point, wanting dwight gone, or wanting to just trade him for garbage invokes all 3 of the words i used. plain and simple. it's shortsighted behavior, panicking because of the media, and delusional that the team is better off for it.

Fair enough.

I think paying a gimpy and whiney D12 a max contract when you have seen nothing from him this year is delusional and short sighted. It seems to me that with Kobe retiring soon, there is a rush to secure some (ANY) big name "Star". Dare I say, it smacks of panic?

I usually agree with your stuff laststand, but you're really reaching here buddy.

All three of the words you mentioned (even with your own definitions) could fall under "lacking intelligence". REALLY splitting hairs...

Maybe the easier thing to do is just attack the argument as opposed to the poster?

phoenixrisingla wrote:I usually agree with your stuff laststand, but you're really reaching here buddy.

All three of the words you mentioned (even with your own definitions) could fall under "lacking intelligence". REALLY splitting hairs...

Maybe the easier thing to do is just attack the argument as opposed to the poster?

definitions derived from the merriam webster dictionary first of all. second of all you are wrong. end of story

last stand wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:I usually agree with your stuff laststand, but you're really reaching here buddy.

All three of the words you mentioned (even with your own definitions) could fall under "lacking intelligence". REALLY splitting hairs...

Maybe the easier thing to do is just attack the argument as opposed to the poster?

definitions derived from the merriam webster dictionary first of all. second of all you are wrong. end of story

Ok great, glad we cleared that up.

You made a mistake, and wont back down from it no matter what. lol

Continue name calling in lie of rational debate and have a great day!

SpencerHarrison wrote:

last stand wrote:

Weezy wrote:"Delusion, panic, shortsightedness", not far off dumb if you ask me, basically sayin anyone who doesn't way Dwight here is only speaking with those things and is wrong. If you have a point, make it, argue it, don't come in here telling me how I'm delusional and shortsighted for not sharing the same view as you, that's not an argument, that's an insult.

none of those are even close to dumb. ridiculous. dumb implies that i questioned intelligence. which isn't true. i have no idea what your trying to do by implying that i called people dumb.

delusion- something that is falsely believed or propagated
Panic- a sudden unreasoning terror that often accompanied by mass flight
shortsightedness- lacking foresight

dumb- lacking intelligence.

the above 3 apply very well, the word dumb was never used, nor is it close. i made my point, wanting dwight gone, or wanting to just trade him for garbage invokes all 3 of the words i used. plain and simple. it's shortsighted behavior, panicking because of the media, and delusional that the team is better off for it.

Fair enough.

I think paying a gimpy and whiney D12 a max contract when you have seen nothing from him this year is delusional and short sighted. It seems to me that with Kobe retiring soon, there is a rush to secure some (ANY) big name "Star". Dare I say, it smacks of panic?

you assume my desire to keep dwight howard is based on "wanting to secure any star" because kobe is retiring which is false.

wanting to keep dwight is based on knowing how good he is when healthy, and how good he is in comparison to the rest of the leagues big men.

short-sighted? no, at the very minimum dwight will improve somewhat, it can be a little or a lot with an offseason. but he will improve. that's 100%. how much remains to be seen. so if a 16 and 12 player is guaranteed to improve (which he is) he's worth keeping. dwight is down in weight, down in conditioning. ignoring athleticism which is the one big unknown right now the offseason will bring back the muscle and conditioning.

phoenixrisingla wrote:Ok great, glad we cleared that up.

You made a mistake, and wont back down from it no matter what. lol

Continue name calling in lie of rational debate and have a great day!

prove that being dumb is a requirement of either. you can't. also now i'm name calling. find where i did so. baiting to get me suspended is childish.