D12 Discussion: Dwightmare over! (1139)

Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Weezy on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:30 pm

I'm not saying he stinks, just that giving him the ball tonight other than on an alley oop or 2 feet from the hoop wide open resulted in something bad most of the time. So I can see why, even if maybe not on purpose but from the back of their minds they stop going to him. I also think if he REALLY wants it he needs to fight for good position and demand it more, he can't be content with the 6 shots and stay on the opposite side of the floor that the ball is on.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby therealdeal on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:37 pm

Weezy wrote:I'm not saying he stinks, just that giving him the ball tonight other than on an alley oop or 2 feet from the hoop wide open resulted in something bad most of the time. So I can see why, even if maybe not on purpose but from the back of their minds they stop going to him. I also think if he REALLY wants it he needs to fight for good position and demand it more, he can't be content with the 6 shots and stay on the opposite side of the floor that the ball is on.

I see two things happening. He fights for GREAT position under the basket and the team somehow doesn't find him there. Sometimes it's because the defense collapses and sometimes it's because the team just misses him.

The second the thing is that he's working really hard to be okay with not shooting much. He's working hard at getting into that "defense is the only thing that matters" mentality. I saw him more than once just wave to Kobe or set a screen with the full knowledge he wasn't getting the ball back. I commend him for that.

But sometimes the team needs to look for him a bit more. I would just like to see them reward him a few more times for running the floor and sealing his man.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:46 pm

^^ I completely agree. It's just a good thing to do to reward your big man for playing great D, and rebounding the hell out of the ball. Give him a couple more bones, please.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Weezy on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:48 pm

He seals TOO far under the hoop though, directly under it, and defenders get a hand in and break up the pass, or collapse, help comes and steals the pass. He needs to come out and get the ball more, not put guys in position to make hard passes that are often turnovers.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby therealdeal on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:53 pm

I suppose so. But if they sent the ball in sooner his man wouldn't be so far back. :man10:

He usually seals really well and then after a while he's sealed his man out of bounds basically. He could do a better job of sealing and then sitting I suppose. But again, the guys have to look for him more. A couple more touches would probably go a long way to making him feel appreciated. As it is we definitely underutilized him today offensively.

But we were stroking from outside, so it was just one of those games.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Weezy on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:56 pm

Well that's a good point, and that's what I'm saying, if goes both ways, Dwight is to blame, and his teammates. For years now we haven't had guys that know how to make good post entry passes, it was a problem with Bynum too, and we still don't for some reason.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby therealdeal on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:59 pm

I think part of it is coaching at this point. We've got Blake and Nash and Kobe and all three of those guys are capable of getting the ball inside. I think before it was personnel, but I think at this point it's coaching and emphasis. We're just not emphasizing it right now.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Damian Necronamous on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:04 am

Don't discount the possibility of a Josh Smith for Pau S&T in the offseason. If Atlanta doesn't land anyone they like in FA, I'm sure they'd much rather have Pau for a year than lose Smith for nothing. Pau/Horford keeps them relevant in the East.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:05 am

S&T isn't happening with us in this new CBA.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Weezy on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:05 am

Well 'Antoni was asked about it after the game and he said our guys just aren't good at getting Dwight the ball. So he knows it's an issue, either it's on him and he's passing blame or we really do suck at it. I'm thinking a little of both. Jodie is a terrible passer, Metta only looks for his own, Nash is having passing issues like I've never seen, Kobe I rarely looking to set up Dwight down low, Clark passes off to Nash or Kobe on the perimeter mosy of the time, and that most of the players that play with Dwight. Guys need to set him up better AND he needs to make it easier for them.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby King of Clutch on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:08 am

Weezy wrote:I'm not saying he stinks, just that giving him the ball tonight other than on an alley oop or 2 feet from the hoop wide open resulted in something bad most of the time. So I can see why, even if maybe not on purpose but from the back of their minds they stop going to him. I also think if he REALLY wants it he needs to fight for good position and demand it more, he can't be content with the 6 shots and stay on the opposite side of the floor that the ball is on.

I disagree. I have always said that howard cant be that shaq guy offensively. He just isn't good enough. But even I was getting upset when ran the floor and pinned his man in the paint MULTIPLE times without players passing it to him immediately. And I wasn't even playing, lol cant even begin to understand his frustration.

Now about what shaq was saying after the game, I dont think he can avg 28 and 15. Even when 100% healthy thats a stretch. But I do think that he definitely needs to be a dominant force in order for us to be able to compete with other teams at the top of the west. It must be him and kobe. Whether it be 18 and 13, or 20 and 15, he definitely needs to be better offensively. He still is the biggest guy on the floor on most nights. I think we gave up on feeding the ball to him to early . He was working his way back into basketball when we were doing it earlier in the season, but clearly he looks much better. Maybe we should try it again.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby therealdeal on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:08 am

True enough. I just saw more than once when he had his guy sealed and there was an opportunity to get him the ball for either an easy look or a foul and we missed it, that's all. I could feel his frustration. One of those was on a play where he ran the floor and sealed his man and wasn't rewarded. That's rare. I don't know how often a Center does that and doesn't get rewarded.

Anyway, I'm digging his new found energy and effort. He's really going for every block around the rim. Yes he's goal tending a few, but he's sending a message: weak **** will get sent home.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Lakerjones on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:10 am

Weezy wrote:Well 'Antoni was asked about it after the game and he said our guys just aren't good at getting Dwight the ball. So he knows it's an issue, either it's on him and he's passing blame or we really do suck at it. I'm thinking a little of both. Jodie is a terrible passer, Metta only looks for his own, Nash is having passing issues like I've never seen, Kobe I rarely looking to set up Dwight down low, Clark passes off to Nash or Kobe on the perimeter mosy of the time, and that most of the players that play with Dwight. Guys need to set him up better AND he needs to make it easier for them.


^^ Honestly I think that's a cop out from D' Antoni. They played classic D' Antoni ball for much of the game tonight - shooting threes at a really high clip, not going to the post. That's by design. It worked for tonight, but it won't be a recipe for success against Atlanta. We need to work on getting it inside.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby King of Clutch on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:10 am

Weezy wrote:He seals TOO far under the hoop though, directly under it, and defenders get a hand in and break up the pass, or collapse, help comes and steals the pass. He needs to come out and get the ball more, not put guys in position to make hard passes that are often turnovers.

No. He seals them under the hoop so that the defender cant contest his shot, and so he can just rise and dunk on them. He's been doing that for years in orlando. Shaq used to do that too.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Weezy on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:12 am

King of Clutch wrote:
Weezy wrote:He seals TOO far under the hoop though, directly under it, and defenders get a hand in and break up the pass, or collapse, help comes and steals the pass. He needs to come out and get the ball more, not put guys in position to make hard passes that are often turnovers.

No. He seals them under the hoop so that the defender cant contest his shot, and so he can just rise and dunk on them. He's been doing that for years in orlando. Shaq used to do that too.


Well our guys need to learn to get him the ball immediately when he does that then and the coach needs to tell them too as well.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby King of Clutch on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:15 am

Weezy wrote:
King of Clutch wrote:
Weezy wrote:He seals TOO far under the hoop though, directly under it, and defenders get a hand in and break up the pass, or collapse, help comes and steals the pass. He needs to come out and get the ball more, not put guys in position to make hard passes that are often turnovers.

No. He seals them under the hoop so that the defender cant contest his shot, and so he can just rise and dunk on them. He's been doing that for years in orlando. Shaq used to do that too.


Well our guys need to learn to get him the ball immediately when he does that then and the coach needs to tell them too as well.

My thoughts exactly. I feel like we're definitely playing better, but our full potential is being capped by our current coach. Thats just me. Still time to get better though.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby King of Clutch on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:09 am

I agree with D'antoni that the lakers just aren't good at getting howard the ball. But thats where coaching comes in. Also, I don't know why this is true but I have definitely been noticing that blake seems to be MUCH better at getting howard the ball than nash. I don't understand why, because nash is clearly the superior passer. But I just see the passes that blake gives to howard when they're on the floor together, like the lobs, and pocket passes, that nash never seems to make. Guess they just lack that chemistry.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:49 am

I give him props for keeping his level of energy high on D while not getting many touches on the other end ...

I see some communication/timing pbs when it comes to feed him ... he often seals his man under the basket ... while the ball is in our PG hands around the three pt line .... difficult and predictable entry pass with no angle to make ...

Guards have to move the ball quicker and D12 has to operate on the "side blocks" more .
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby GoldenKnight on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:28 am

I love the effort Dwight brought on defense, never stopped playing & changed a chunk of shots that the box score won't show. It was really a shame to see him run the floor so many times & seal his man only for us to end up shooting a 3 pointer or swinging it elsewhere. He deserved the ball a little more.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby GoldenKnight on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:30 am

therealdeal wrote:I was frustrated for him tonight. He had maybe 3 post touches all game. I thought they should have gone into him a lot more.

But the shots were falling and he didn't stop working hard.

Big props to him for his defensive effort.


:jam2: Agreed!
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:14 am

It's obvious as night and day that Dwight is still languishing from his back injury. He is nowhere near as explosive as before. I've heard that his injury takes more than 1 year to heal and that he should be close to 100% come next season. I hope that's the case becasue if he isn't healthy, he won't be a dominant force but be more of a Javil McGee type player. Very good but not a top 5 player.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:15 am

therealdeal wrote:True enough. I just saw more than once when he had his guy sealed and there was an opportunity to get him the ball for either an easy look or a foul and we missed it, that's all. I could feel his frustration. One of those was on a play where he ran the floor and sealed his man and wasn't rewarded. That's rare. I don't know how often a Center does that and doesn't get rewarded.

Anyway, I'm digging his new found energy and effort. He's really going for every block around the rim. Yes he's goal tending a few, but he's sending a message: weak **** will get sent home.


I've been noticing this too. Dwight getting down court, sealing his man with great deep position and his teammates simply don't find him. It's a regular occurence.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:51 am

I think it's a combo of his teammates not finding him and him sealing his man at a time where his teammates aren't looking for him. I don't think he's on the same page as his teammates. Dwight wants to seal and get the ball, his teammates are trying to run a play on the perimeter.

Jamison gets easy looks because he knows when and where his teammates are going to be and gets into the perfect spot for an easy pass.

I don't think they are directly not giving him the ball, they just need to get into a better sync with each other. Other than that I think he would get the ball a lot more if he moved off the ball. If someone has the ball on the wing and he's on the opposite side, he's not moving. Going back to the chemistry thing, if he could duck in like Jamison does, he would get a lot more easy looks.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:34 am

Since Dwight isn't able to post up properly because of his lack of "lower center of gravity", he needs to utilize his athleticism and footwork more instead of trying to seal with just his hands.

He has big shoulders that should create space, moving side to side, using spins like Shaq did. He needs more post training.
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Re: Dwight Discussion: All in for L.A. (907)

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:20 am

therealdeal wrote:I was frustrated for him tonight. He had maybe 3 post touches all game. I thought they should have gone into him a lot more.

But the shots were falling and he didn't stop working hard.

Big props to him for his defensive effort.


I hear ya, but I think this had more to do with how much collapsing zone Minny played last night. We just kept launching wide open J's over the D and hit a lot of them.

I was ecstatic to see Dwight not get frustrated by this and continue to keep his energy on D & the glass up. Exactly what we need to see from him. I'm proud of the guy.

Keep it up, Dwight! :jam2:
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