Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

Doc Brown · by **Doc Brown** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:54 am

D12 needs to play in lineups that are suited for him.

Morris / Meeks / MWP / Jamison / D12.....Add Nash instead of Morris when he returns or Duhon for Morris right now.

Space the floor and let D12 go to work. That's how you maximize D12.

Let Kobe go with a lineup of Pau/Hill.

Vasashi17 · by **Vasashi17** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:56 am

I honestly think health is a part of it, but certainly not the whole story. The big man philosophy is that if you don't feed the big dog, he won't protect the house. Call it selfish, but if a big man labors up the court and isn't made the emphasis from time to time, then he begins to think his efforts o D are for what exactly...if all you do is run down the court and jack up 3s. We saw what happened with Dwight and the subs...they decreased the deficit by jacking up 3s, but they did it by making Howard the centerpiece on offense. He's more than a willing passer, but if all you do is use him as a hedge for PnR opportunities on offense, then when exactly is he really "touching" the ball. The most capable passing player on this team for Dwight is either sitting on the bench due to injury or sitting on the bench due to D'Antoni wanting to win the game. Say what you want about Pau, but at the very least, he does look for Dwight much more often than our backcourt and he also gives him the right pass....up high, where the ball won't get stripped.

D'Antoni: "I hate when guys say, 'I didn't get my touches.' That doesn't make any sense. Everybody gets touches. The ball should go around."

By Ding
Pau Gasol isn’t the only unproductive and slightly confused Lakers big man.

Dwight Howard, whom the Lakers have a monumental need to keep happy so he’ll re-sign with them at season’s end, expressed frustration after the Lakers’ loss in Memphis on Friday night about the Lakers’ teamwork in this early stage under Coach Mike D’Antoni and without injured point guard Steve Nash.

“We’ve got to find ways to get everybody involved, and when we do, we win,” said Howard after he had seven points and four rebounds.

Howard had a team-high five turnovers, but like Gasol did, Howard mentioned not getting the ball enough.

“Me and Pau got to be active,” Howard said. “We might not get it (the ball) as much as we want it, but we’ve got to find ways to help the team win.”

Howard acknowledged he and Gasol had “a couple bad games” in the losses in Sacramento and Memphis. He mentioned they need to do things to “impact the game other than scoring” … and then added: “Once we get going on the post, we’ll be good.”

There is an assumption that Nash’s return from a fractured fibula — though he suggested it won’t come early next week — and his passing wizardry will help get everyone more involved in the offense. But D’Antoni’s offense is meant to have open spacing, rampant pick-and-rolls and not many straight post-up plays — certainly not as many as Mike Brown’s did or Phil Jackson’s triangle offense would.

Feed the big dog and you might see Howard more interested and motivated to go chase down more than 1 defensive board in a game.

The Rock · by **The Rock** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:20 am

Dwight will be fine. You guys are seriously freaking out over the littlest of things that are fixable/manageable. I know its costing us games but let the guy get to full speed before calling doom and gloom.

Once hes 100% this is what you'll see. We saw flashes of it last night

Also he was part of the 2nd unit that chopped down the lead and got us back into the game. So lets not act like he was a dud out there like Pau who was a complete liability

pound4pound1 · by **pound4pound1** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:49 pm

this guy needs to get fed...the offense should start thru him

what im seeing out there right now is a token big man setting screens for Kobe and that's it

kenzo · by **kenzo** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:01 pm

Center Court wrote:People can keep making excuses and claim health, fatigue, lack of killer instinct but the truth is that he's not happy during the games. You can see he is frustrated. His whole career he's been the #1 guy and everything runs through him. Right now, he's standing and watching Kobe.

He said he wanted to go to BK because he wanted his own team where he's the focal point. Right now Pau is used more in the pick and roll then he is.

Well, if that is/was the case then he should have stayed in Orlando :man9:

Nash will give him as many scoring opportunities as Williams anyways.

trodgers · by **trodgers** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:23 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:this guy needs to get fed...the offense should start thru him

what im seeing out there right now is a token big man setting screens for Kobe and that's it

I've posted his possession breakdown. It was ugly. He took only 7 FGs, but he consumed about 20 possessions. They purposely went away from him because he kept blowing close shots and getting stripped.

Rooscooter · by **Rooscooter** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:26 pm

trodgers wrote:
pound4pound1 wrote:this guy needs to get fed...the offense should start thru him

what im seeing out there right now is a token big man setting screens for Kobe and that's it

I've posted his possession breakdown. It was ugly. He took only 7 FGs, but he consumed about 20 possessions. They purposely went away from him because he kept blowing close shots and getting stripped.

This....

Rooscooter · by **Rooscooter** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:34 pm

Center Court wrote:People can keep making excuses and claim health, fatigue, lack of killer instinct but the truth is that he's not happy during the games. You can see he is frustrated. His whole career he's been the #1 guy and everything runs through him. Right now, he's standing and watching Kobe.

He said he wanted to go to BK because he wanted his own team where he's the focal point. Right now Pau is used more in the pick and roll then he is.

This is what I meant by he's shown a lack of killer instinct. He has choices. He can wait to get offensive touches before he goes after rebounds and plays defense or he can decide to do that regardless of touches.

It really doesn't apply to the last game anyway as Trodgers showed.... he had touches.

It may be fatigue, it may be that his back is hurting, it may be that his back isn't allowing him to do the things he used to and that it may be the "new" normal and he's having to get used to it as well.... as I said before... only Howard knows right now.

I do think he's uncomfortable being an "on the box" post up player.... that's never been his strength. Until we get a real guard back from injury he's stuck with Kobe being the primary ball handler and Kobe is a lot of things but a pass first initiator isn't one of them. Howard loves the broken floor situations that a penetrating guard can create.... that's where he gets his high percentage looks and gets going mentally.... right now he's playing a stagnate post up game. In any event...... should it affect the other end of the floor as much as it has?

dwighthowardsdad · by **dwighthowardsdad** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:54 pm

^Good post. Unfortunately, as with Bynum/Gasol last year, my fears are starting to come true about Howard Gasol; they're not a good fit together. Gasol is not consistent enough shooting jumpshots all game long. He's horrible this year. Dwight is used to playing with shooters.

Check this out. Last year, the Orlando Magic's PF, Ryan Anderson shot 39.3 % from three. That's excellent. That provides the spacing that Dwight needs to operate within the offense. The only player that comes close with that skillset in our personnel is Jamison. He can stretch the defense with his ability to shoot jumpshots. Hopefully, this can somewhat, not competely offset the absence of Nash.

When you sag the paint with Gasol's man, it is harder to operate. Although, Howard does get stripped a lot, and is not as polished as Bynum on the block. Howard does need an elite PG to give him the ball in the right positions to score. We'll see how we can due without at least for awhile since Nash is out...

borri · by **borri** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:05 pm

Was iffy on whether Pringles' system matches with D12. Still very iffy. Waiting to see if Nash running the system with Kobe as a spacer will help.

Amare was unstoppable with Nash because he was money from 15 FT. D12 on the other hand can't hit the side of a barn from that distance.

I'll try to stay optimistic on this. But really, PJ would have been a much better choice for D12. Nash could have thrived by being Kerr/Paxson in the TRI.

LTLakerFan · by **LTLakerFan** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:10 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:this guy needs to get fed...the offense should start thru him

what im seeing out there right now is a token big man setting screens for Kobe and that's it

Yeah but when he gets the ball what does he do with it? The guy has only a running hook across the lane for a post game if he doesn't catch it where he can dunk. And that's only if he hangs onto it as he keeps getting stripped. This is what happens usually when he gets the ball.

borri · by **borri** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:14 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:
pound4pound1 wrote:this guy needs to get fed...the offense should start thru him

what im seeing out there right now is a token big man setting screens for Kobe and that's it

Yeah but when he gets the ball what does he do with it? The guy has only a running hook across the lane for a post game if he doesn't catch it where he can dunk. And that's only if he hangs onto it as he keeps getting stripped. This is what happens usually when he gets the ball.

The middle is way too clogged. D12 is not used to having so many defenders in the paint. Remember in ORL, it was D12 + 4 shooters who can hit the 3 ball. They had incredible spacing. It worked well for them. Had it not been for us, D12 would have already had a CHIP. Then Lewis and Turk took a nose dive skill wise and ORL was done for.

We don't have enough floor spacers for D12 right now without Nash in the lineup. So let's be patient until Nash comes back.

pound4pound1 · by **pound4pound1** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:21 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:
pound4pound1 wrote:this guy needs to get fed...the offense should start thru him

what im seeing out there right now is a token big man setting screens for Kobe and that's it

Yeah but when he gets the ball what does he do with it? The guy has only a running hook across the lane for a post game if he doesn't catch it where he can dunk. And that's only if he hangs onto it as he keeps getting stripped. This is what happens usually when he gets the ball.

during the comeback in the 2nd half, they posted Dwight and once the defense collapsed, he found open shooters that made shots...seemed like a good, familiar formula that worked

last stand · by **last stand** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:32 pm

We won't know what Howard's physical future is until next season, we'll get an idea in January

Right now he's huffing and puffing early in games. For me it's simple logic

He started running 3 months ago after being immobile for 6 months
His back muscles were probably atrophied as we're his leg muscles to some extent if you remember how small they were
His stamina was in the gutter considering he hadn't run
His upper body not at peak condition after no lifting correctly for that period

What your seeing is a man who just started running 3 months ago and is 75% getting pushed around by grown 250-280lbs men at 100%

trodgers · by **trodgers** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:10 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:this guy needs to get fed...the offense should start thru him

what im seeing out there right now is a token big man setting screens for Kobe and that's it

You forgot getting stripped repeatedly and blowing five foot shots. Don't sell Dwight short!

V.V.V.V.V. · by **V.V.V.V.V.** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:14 pm

^I agree that DH is still working his way back. He was never stripped this much in Orlando. But if someone tries to strip you, what keeps your arms locked in place? Your lower back. I say give him some time, and he'll be alright.

pound4pound1 · by **pound4pound1** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:16 pm

trodgers wrote:
pound4pound1 wrote:this guy needs to get fed...the offense should start thru him

what im seeing out there right now is a token big man setting screens for Kobe and that's it

You forgot getting stripped repeatedly and blowing five foot shots. Don't sell Dwight short!

well, yea...getting constantly stripped does get annoying..it's almost as predictable as the FTs...but personally, i would like to see him more involved in the offense...i look at Dwight as the equivalent of the running game in football...can't just go straight to the pass because you got stuffed a few times

BTW- what is it with the lost balls? i dont remember him getting stripped this many times in Orlando

V.V.V.V.V. · by **V.V.V.V.V.** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:22 pm

It's a lower back issue. If you want to lock your arms in place, you have to rigidify your upper body, so that nothing moves. This requires really strong abdominal muscles and lower back muscles. If you get hit in the hands, and your lower back gives, your hands will move as your abdomen moves, and you'll be more likely to lose the ball.

trodgers · by **trodgers** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:36 pm

A few thoughts on the strips.

I think VVVVV is mostly right. This is what's NEW about Dwight's losing the ball. The lower back tenderness/weakness can make you unwilling/unable to hold on as tightly as you can.

But Dwight has always gotten the ball stripped a good deal and turned it over a ton...because he brings the ball down to use his athleticism instead of fundamentals. Compare Bynum on this point...Bynum took the ball high and kept it high. Pau does, too. Dwight needs to learn to keep the ball high while he's figuring out what to do with it.

last stand · by **last stand** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:56 pm

Shaq was good about that to in some respects. Dwight hopefully will learn

Rooscooter · by **Rooscooter** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:23 pm

trodgers wrote:A few thoughts on the strips.

I think VVVVV is mostly right. This is what's NEW about Dwight's losing the ball. The lower back tenderness/weakness can make you unwilling/unable to hold on as tightly as you can.

But Dwight has always gotten the ball stripped a good deal and turned it over a ton...because he brings the ball down to use his athleticism instead of fundamentals. Compare Bynum on this point...Bynum took the ball high and kept it high. Pau does, too. Dwight needs to learn to keep the ball high while he's figuring out what to do with it.

I think this could be the case as well. I would add that in the past Dwight wasn't getting nearly as many pure post up opportunities as he is getting here. He's always gotten stripped and that's going to continue IMO regardless of his back. He's in Bynum's old role.... pass it in and stand and watch..... That's not his strength and having players like Pau and MWP on the floor you end up with more defenders closer to Howard because no one respects their outside shots..... or in other words.... we don't have a balanced starting five.....

Alleyhoops · by **Alleyhoops** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:27 pm

Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries andf our first round (unprotected) draft picks, eh?

dj vitus · by **dj vitus** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:56 pm

Superman or Invisible Man, let's see who shows up tonight. Dwight has to get it going; I don't remember the last time he's had three bad games in a row that attributed to losses.

revgen · by **revgen** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:57 pm

The problem with Dwight is that when he does his faceup moves, he has no J. The defender (in this case Gasol) knows it and doesn't care. Gasol puts his hands in the air, but he knows Dwight is going to drive. He rides him and slaps down on the ball as soon as Dwight goes up. Way too predictable. This is what defenders have been doing to him since the San Antonio game. Until Dwight has a J that the defense will respect, he's going to continue to have trouble.

lakersin4 · by **lakersin4** on Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:20 pm

I'd like to see Dwight & Pau working together on some things. I'm sure Pau could help Dwight get a few shots down that are more on the finesse side, until he can get back to his dominant self. I think Pau had alot to do with Drew's offensive growth & could also help Dwight.

Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

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