Dwight Discussion: Griffin for Dwight?... Naaaa (1011)

432J wrote:get rid of him and get something in return while you can

@ the thought of him being the "future of the lakers." to be honest, i haven't been able to tell the difference between him and tyler zeller this season. horrendous fundamentals, no post game, and a questionable attitude

why wait until he leaves in the summer and get nothing in return when they can trade him now and get something back

Zeller avg 17/12 with a jacked up back too? I bet outside of that 1 clev game you probably haven't seen any of Zeller, how would anyone take your comments serioulys when you post crap like that? Like the other poster said he's no Hakeen/Shaq etc but dam Zeller? Just stop it

Pretty cool he was last to leave the floor during shoot-around today to work on free throws and baby hooks.

He really does need to get that baby hook down, and be able to throw it quickly before letting the defense settle. I'm sure Pau can show him a few things.

For free throws, when he brings the ball up, he hesitates, killing his rhythm. It just becomes a game of darts. He needs complete rhythm from waist to basket. Every bad free thrower has a hitch in their shot, and every good free thrower has good rhythm bringing it up. It's not that hard to shoot better than 50%, unless you really don't care, or you can't handle the pressure.

432J wrote:get rid of him and get something in return while you can

@ the thought of him being the "future of the lakers." to be honest, i haven't been able to tell the difference between him and tyler zeller this season.

You can't get anyone better for Dwight. He has no fundamentals, that's true... but is still overall the best at that position. As I posted in another thread: he is one of the highest scoring centers in the league (1.9 points behind #1 Lopez), but shoots higher %, blocks more shots, rebounds a lot more and plays better defense. He's a two-way player regardless of his awkward offensive moves. Yes, I know that tells you more about the (sad) state of the modern NBA center position more then about Dwight's "awesomeness", but there it is -- there is no one better/younger/healthier/faster/stronger then him. He has the best combination of those attributes.

Bynum has better moves, but is unhealthy.
Lopez is better offensively, but can't rebound and defend as well.
M. Gasol is smoother and is an amazing FT shooter, but is slower, produces less overall and shoots lower %.
Pekovic is even stronger and heavier, but not in the same league skill-wise.

I know the Zeller line was a joke, but Zeller produces 8/6/1 while shooting 40%.
Cousins is good, but a total headcase.

Trust me, there's no one better overall.

karacha wrote:

432J wrote:get rid of him and get something in return while you can

@ the thought of him being the "future of the lakers." to be honest, i haven't been able to tell the difference between him and tyler zeller this season.

You can't get anyone better for Dwight. He has no fundamentals, that's true... but is still overall the best at that position. As I posted in another thread: he is one of the highest scoring centers in the league (1.9 points behind #1 Lopez), but shoots higher %, blocks more shots, rebounds a lot more and plays better defense. He's a two-way player regardless of his awkward offensive moves. Yes, I know that tells you more about the (sad) state of the modern NBA center position more then about Dwight's "awesomeness", but there it is -- there is no one better/younger/healthier/faster/stronger then him. He has the best combination of those attributes.

Bynum has better moves, but is unhealthy.
Lopez is better offensively, but can't rebound and defend as well.
M. Gasol is smoother and is an amazing FT shooter, but is slower, produces less overall and shoots lower %.
Pekovic is even stronger and heavier, but not in the same league skill-wise.

I know the Zeller line was a joke, but Zeller produces 8/6/1 while shooting 40%.
Cousins is good, but a total headcase.

Trust me, there's no one better overall.

I think that this is the real problem in our situation. We're not sold on his ability to lead this team, but from a straight production standpoint, who can we get who is better?

The real "rub" is that we're not convinced that he can be the leader we need, but he seems unwilling to accept anyone else as the leader.

karacha wrote:

432J wrote:get rid of him and get something in return while you can

@ the thought of him being the "future of the lakers." to be honest, i haven't been able to tell the difference between him and tyler zeller this season.

You can't get anyone better for Dwight. He has no fundamentals, that's true... but is still overall the best at that position. As I posted in another thread: he is one of the highest scoring centers in the league (1.9 points behind #1 Lopez), but shoots higher %, blocks more shots, rebounds a lot more and plays better defense. He's a two-way player regardless of his awkward offensive moves. Yes, I know that tells you more about the (sad) state of the modern NBA center position more then about Dwight's "awesomeness", but there it is -- there is no one better/younger/healthier/faster/stronger then him. He has the best combination of those attributes.

Bynum has better moves, but is unhealthy.
Lopez is better offensively, but can't rebound and defend as well.
M. Gasol is smoother and is an amazing FT shooter, but is slower, produces less overall and shoots lower %.
Pekovic is even stronger and heavier, but not in the same league skill-wise.

I know the Zeller line was a joke, but Zeller produces 8/6/1 while shooting 40%.
Cousins is good, but a total headcase.

Trust me, there's no one better overall.

It's sad that you had to make this post.

borri wrote:

karacha wrote:

432J wrote:get rid of him and get something in return while you can

@ the thought of him being the "future of the lakers." to be honest, i haven't been able to tell the difference between him and tyler zeller this season.

You can't get anyone better for Dwight. He has no fundamentals, that's true... but is still overall the best at that position. As I posted in another thread: he is one of the highest scoring centers in the league (1.9 points behind #1 Lopez), but shoots higher %, blocks more shots, rebounds a lot more and plays better defense. He's a two-way player regardless of his awkward offensive moves. Yes, I know that tells you more about the (sad) state of the modern NBA center position more then about Dwight's "awesomeness", but there it is -- there is no one better/younger/healthier/faster/stronger then him. He has the best combination of those attributes.

Bynum has better moves, but is unhealthy.
Lopez is better offensively, but can't rebound and defend as well.
M. Gasol is smoother and is an amazing FT shooter, but is slower, produces less overall and shoots lower %.
Pekovic is even stronger and heavier, but not in the same league skill-wise.

I know the Zeller line was a joke, but Zeller produces 8/6/1 while shooting 40%.
Cousins is good, but a total headcase.

Trust me, there's no one better overall.

It's sad that you had to make this post.

Lets just give Cavs Howard for Zeller and see if 432J can tell the difference then

Hey quit dogging Tyler Zeller, he swatted the s*** out of Paul Pierce the last time they played.

Anyone that blocks a turtle with fuzzy hair growing on it's face is a stud in my book.

Doc Brown wrote:Hey quit dogging Tyler Zeller, he swatted the s*** out of Paul Pierce the last time they played.

Anyone that blocks a turtle with fuzzy hair growing on it's face is a stud in my book.

I'm not, since there's no difference between howard/zeller anyways, we might as well get the cheaper guy right?

so dwight is saying he's sick of hearing about the negativity and needs people to believe.

then get the team to show us something out there beyond 17-25, give us something to believe in. saying that kind of stuff when we were 9-10 was okay. now it's just old and late in the day...less talking, more doing. winning tonight at utah would be an acceptable start.

^ Off-topic, but it would have also been a LOL if you changed ur name to fkpringles

Tyler Zeller... same thing as Dwight... Wow...

I've read every awful opinion on this site for the last 4-5 years or something and that ranks up there in the top 5 probably.

Chillbongo wrote:^ Off-topic, but it would have also been a LOL if you changed ur name to fkpringles

nah. while i feel he is a huge part of the problem, he's not the only one. it's also getting to where i don't care who is responsible, i just want it fixed and the team to win.

fkjimbuss

Laker offense with Howard on floor - 110.0
Laker offense with Howard off floor - 112.2

There's a 500+ minute sample size with him off the floor... that's a decent one. You guys can post his offensive production all you like... but his actual impact on our offense is nothing. In comparison, a guy like Tyson Chandler improves the Knicks O by +11.9.

Combine all this with his synergy numbers that were posted the other day, on him turning over 1/5ths of our possessions and declining post efficiency, he's having a bad offensive season. There's just no way around it. If you think his offense will pickup next year, after an offseason of rest, okay... but that's of course.. a gamble.

So, we should trade him for Chandler then?

A very good gamble.

Anything in this league is a gamble, but betting that the 9 year physical marvel that is Dwight Howard will recover well next season is not risking much at all. I don't know how a summer of lifting, strengthening, and conditioning couldn't hurt a guy who is used to such regimens.

And while those numbers are fine, it's not the offense that he's important for anyway. I'm much more concerned about his defensive numbers.

karacha wrote:So, we should trade him for Chandler then?

old and lil expensive, get Zeller, cheaper and we wont be able to tell the difference between him an Howard anyways

Armani wrote:Laker offense with Howard on floor - 110.0
Laker offense with Howard off floor - 112.2

There's a 500+ minute sample size with him off the floor... that's a decent one. You guys can post his offensive production all you like... but his actual impact on our offense is nothing. In comparison, a guy like Tyson Chandler improves the Knicks O by +11.9.

Combine all this with his synergy numbers that were posted the other day, on him turning over 1/5ths of our possessions and declining post efficiency, he's having a bad offensive season. There's just no way around it. If you think his offense will pickup next year, after an offseason of rest, okay... but that's of course.. a gamble.

Interesting numbers. Prepare for an onslaught of people who dont believe in stats but would rather filter the game through their own sub-conscious bias's.

I think that his offense will improve, but if he ever recovers fully or gets back to his old self... you're right thats a gamble.

It's a good gamble. Better than letting him go.

karacha wrote:It's a good gamble. Better than letting him go.

I tend to think its a good gamble, but I dont feel that confident in it.

Between his injuries and lack of leadership I'm definately not 100%.

I think if we can get MDA out we have to try to keep him. There just isnt anyone else in the league that can do what he does.

phoenixrisingla wrote:

karacha wrote:It's a good gamble. Better than letting him go.

I tend to think its a good gamble, but I dont feel that confident in it.

Between his injuries and lack of leadership I'm definately not 100%.

I think if we can get MDA out we have to try to keep him. There just isnt anyone else in the league that can do what he does.

IMO I never thougth Shaq was much of a leader, otherwise he wouldn't have publicly humilated the owner with his pay me rant and discussing all he's done for the franchise to the media like how he recruited Payton/Malone so he should be rewarded for it. Howards no Shaq in terms of oncourt play but that doesn't mean we can't surround him with solid mix of vets for leadership and youth for talent, look at Fish, dude was pretty much one of the top 3 worst starting PG in the league but he's out there day in and day out cause of his leadership.

If Dwight could just forget about post touches.. Just focus on defense, rebounding, putbacks, lobs, & other easy looks.. We could feature Pau in the post & really get the most out of both of them. I don't care if Dwight scores 12 PPG.. If he gives us 100% in those other categories & we have Pau in the post, we'd be a better team.

Armani wrote:Laker offense with Howard on floor - 110.0
Laker offense with Howard off floor - 112.2

There's a 500+ minute sample size with him off the floor... that's a decent one. You guys can post his offensive production all you like... but his actual impact on our offense is nothing. In comparison, a guy like Tyson Chandler improves the Knicks O by +11.9.

Combine all this with his synergy numbers that were posted the other day, on him turning over 1/5ths of our possessions and declining post efficiency, he's having a bad offensive season. There's just no way around it. If you think his offense will pickup next year, after an offseason of rest, okay... but that's of course.. a gamble.

Wonder what the stats are for defense with Howard on/off the floor.

khmrP wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:

karacha wrote:It's a good gamble. Better than letting him go.

I tend to think its a good gamble, but I dont feel that confident in it.

Between his injuries and lack of leadership I'm definately not 100%.

I think if we can get MDA out we have to try to keep him. There just isnt anyone else in the league that can do what he does.

IMO I never thougth Shaq was much of a leader, otherwise he wouldn't have publicly humilated the owner with his pay me rant and discussing all he's done for the franchise to the media like how he recruited Payton/Malone so he should be rewarded for it. Howards no Shaq in terms of oncourt play but that doesn't mean we can't surround him with solid mix of vets for leadership and youth for talent, look at Fish, dude was pretty much one of the top 3 worst starting PG in the league but he's out there day in and day out cause of his leadership.

But those teams has so many strong/leadership personalities. Kobe, Fish, Rick Fox, Shaq. Not to mention great glue guys like Turiaf, etc.

Just a much more solid, harmonious team. And we are talking about the kobe vs shaq years so thats really saying something.

karacha wrote:

432J wrote:get rid of him and get something in return while you can

@ the thought of him being the "future of the lakers." to be honest, i haven't been able to tell the difference between him and tyler zeller this season.

You can't get anyone better for Dwight. He has no fundamentals, that's true... but is still overall the best at that position. As I posted in another thread: he is one of the highest scoring centers in the league (1.9 points behind #1 Lopez), but shoots higher %, blocks more shots, rebounds a lot more and plays better defense. He's a two-way player regardless of his awkward offensive moves. Yes, I know that tells you more about the (sad) state of the modern NBA center position more then about Dwight's "awesomeness", but there it is -- there is no one better/younger/healthier/faster/stronger then him. He has the best combination of those attributes.

Bynum has better moves, but is unhealthy.
Lopez is better offensively, but can't rebound and defend as well.
M. Gasol is smoother and is an amazing FT shooter, but is slower, produces less overall and shoots lower %.
Pekovic is even stronger and heavier, but not in the same league skill-wise.

I know the Zeller line was a joke, but Zeller produces 8/6/1 while shooting 40%.
Cousins is good, but a total headcase.

Trust me, there's no one better overall.

This depends on the definition of "overall". Between the lines.... when he's getting spoon fed lobs and having a team that creates open lanes for his I'd agree that he's "overall" the best "player". But that ignores his impact on his teammates through things like attitude, ego and ability to change. In that area I'd say he's pretty close to the bottom. He's wrecked one team for a decade and only the ones who don't want to say they may have been a little wrong about him would say that he isn't starting to do the same here...... the difference? It took him 7 years to start going public in Orlando.... about 3 months here.

As a player he's overall the best..... but even that gap isn't as big as most think IMO.... the total package has weighed on this team IMO... this same team with our previous center and complete trash at point guard played a lot better last year with a new coach and no training camp.... Add Nash and Howard and it comes off the rails.... Doesn't seem "system" driven to me.....