Dwight Discussion: Dwightmare on Figueroa St. Part Boo

therealdeal wrote:

Doberman wrote:You're missing the point here: Orlando is actually TRYING to keep him. They have and will continue to try until their time runs out - which won't be til 2013. Denver didn't trade Carmelo until they were in the same situation (his contract was expiring). We're not there yet Dwight.

Again, you fail to address the fact that Williams was moved midseason in a similar situation: Utah needed to rebuild. Orlando will move Dwight now if they find the right package.

That's because Deron is a tier beneath Howard and Utah hadn't had the success with Deron as Orlando has had with Dwight. It's clear from Otis' comments in the media that he and the organization value Dwight alot more than Utah valued Deron - and justifiably so. Dwight being a star bigman has a greater impact on the game. It's always easier to build around a star big guy.

Doberman wrote:

You're avoiding mine just the same as I've addressed this many times now: Orlando WANTS TO KEEP HIM.

This is something you've just started to say. You've been pointing out that they would move him for expiring contracts. This is a new argument that I would be willing to debate.

I've been pointing out that they want to keep him, and will only trade him when they're contractually obligated to (i.e. when he's about to become a FA). My proposal for expiring contracts is consistent with this circumstance.

Doberman wrote:

They're not trying to trade him right now. He's NOT ON THE MARKET right now. I'm not sure why you won't accept this. You're proposing deals in a situation that doesn't exist. Howard won't be a FA in 2012, he will be in 2013. Therefore he won't be traded until then. It's that simple.

You asked for something, I provided it and now you're changing your story. I'm proposing deals that asked me to propose. You wanted examples, I provided them and now they're useless because you said so? Okay then.

I asked for examples taking into account certain parameters of the situation Dwight and Magic are in because that's exactly what I factored in when I thought of my proposal. These are obvious criteria Dwight has if he's going to accept a trade.

Doberman wrote:

It's not either or. Nothing says he can't have both which is what he'll be aiming for (all athletes do). Him playing out his contract doesn't preclude him from being traded to LA.

No it doesn't, but time is a factor whether you want to admit it or not. The faster he's in LA the more time he has to build those business opportunities that he's looking for. Wait a season and you never know what could happen that could keep him out of LA.

Time is a factor and I've taken that into account with my proposal. Since Dwight won't be traded without his own approval (because he won't sign an extension otherwise), he can wait as long as he's under his current contract (2013). Getting it done today or Feb. 2013 won't make a difference to him. The only thing that will change is the package Orlando would receive. So as long as no other team makes an offer way better than the one I've stated, Orlando has no reason to say no to our offer since Dwight prefers LA.

Doberman wrote:

Yours fail to account for fundamental factors of the situation (i.e. big market, top tier contender, 2013 plan). And I've already made my proposal, which is the whole reason you're posting right now.

No they don't, they're just as feasible as yours was if not more. Your proposal is also full of presumptions, as any proposal made by a fan is. It's the nature of being a fan and not being a GM or legal council. That is my point.

The one presumption that we both agree on (as does the entire world), is that Dwight wants the Lakers. That's why my proposal is most feasible. It creates a scenario where all parties get the most of the trade: Dwight gets LA and his old CBA contract, Lakers get the 2 best young bigs moving forward, Orlando sheds the most salary and receives the most prospects. You could try to find a team that would match what the Lakers could offer, but since Dwight wants the Lakers, Orlando has no reason to accept the other offers unless they're substantially better (say $25 million in expiring contracts). If all offers are more or less equal, then Dwight is the in the driver's seat to tell them which offer to accept. That would be the Lakers.

Doberman wrote:

Simple math and logic. $19 million and 8% raises for the next for years or about $15 million and 4.5% raises in the next 4 years. Which would you choose? And please don't come back with "he'll make up the difference in endosements", because as I already said, he can have the big contract and still come to LA for the big market.

You're damn straight I'll come back with he'll earn more through endorsements.

Well, like I said, it doesn't make a difference because he's not in a position where has to choose between them. He's in a position where he can have both.

And it's not four years, it's one year. No matter what he does, his next contract is going to be signed under the new CBA. If he doesn't opt out, he gets his 19,536,360 million. Then he signs a four year deal somewhere under the new CBA. However, he could choose to opt out, sign in LA for (your estimated) 15 million. He'd immediately be a marketing juggernaut. He may not make up 4 million immediately, but endorsements would roll in like there's no tomorrow. I don't know the numbers from 2010-2011, but just a few years ago Kobe was making over 20 million a year in endorsements alone. I'm sure Dwight is getting something massive for his endorsements already, but there'd be an insane boost in those numbers just from being in LA. Say he wins a couple rings here and that number just went up even more. The sooner he gets to LA the better, why wait for an extra 4 million when he can come to LA and get 10s of millions.

It's not just one year, it's his career. His current contract is under the old CBA, so as long he keeps signing an extension (and not a new contract), he will be paid under the old CBA scale. That's how Shaq's contract worked too and why he was elgible for almost $40 million/year before Buss traded him. If Dwight opts out of his current deal and signs a new contract, THAT new contract is under the new CBA. He will make substantially less every year. So the optimal situation for Dwight is to stay on his current deal and sign an extension while making it to the Lakers.

Doberman wrote:

Because they want to keep him as long as possible, and if they can't, they can still get expiring contracts. They have no reason to rush. You want to believe they must only because you want to believe the deal will happen ASAP.

I don't believe this deal is going to happen at all. I think it SHOULD happen, that it COULD happen, but not that it necessarily will. Either now or in the future. But again, why wait? Why prolong the inevitable?

Because if you listen to Otis Smith, he doesn't believe it's inevitable. He's still trying to win it all, and seems to believe that if they can, then Dwight will be compelled to stay.

Doberman wrote:

With just Durant and Howard they have a good foundation. But no, unless they're deep, they're not going to win it all.

If I remember correctly I left them with two stars and basically all their role players still. Not to mention their strong front lineup still. They'd do extremely well considering they've made great runs the way they are now.

Aside from Ibaka, their current role players are scrubs. That's a huge reason why they lost. They'd make another run based on star power like last year, but ultimately lose to a legit contender that's beyond 2-deep.

Doberman wrote:

Miami's big 3 was a bigger juggernaut and they lost to a team that was more loaded. You're not going to get it done with JUST two stars.

Just two stars? Did Dallas have more than that? Nowitski and...Kidd? Who else is a star on that team? They had a team where they all knew their roles. That's it. The Magic in 09 made it to Finals with only one real star. It's not that far fetched. The Heat weren't built well at all as a team, that's why they lost.

They had stars and fringe stars (Marion, Terry, Chandler) playing a lesser role for the betterment of the team. That's what makes them deep, just like Odom and Artest playing a lesser role for us. Your proposed Okl team is nothing like this. That's why I say they aren't really legit contenders despite having a foundation of two stars.

Doberman wrote:

If Okl can net another star, then maybe. But not to the Denver deal. A "good run" is not good enough for him.

I was unaware that you knew Dwight's thoughts on the matter. You don't know if Denver could be a destination or not. If the situation looked good, why wouldn't he? He wants to win and Denver could potentially be that team depending on how things shake out.

Dwight wanting to play for a winner should go without saying. Obviously he's not going to want to meddle in mediocrity. Why would he? Yeah, you can always say "Denver COULD pull of a bunch moves and become a contender", but from where we're standing right now, it doesn't look very likely to happen within the next year.

Doberman wrote:

Orlando wouldn't accept the deal, or ANY deal this year, because they don't have to move him. They'll keep him as long as they can.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I do not agree.

I'm basing it on Otis Smith's press. He seems very intent on building a winner in order to keep Dwight.

Nets Preparing Trade Offer For Dwight Howard

The Nets are prepared to offer Brook Lopez and two future first round picks to acquire Dwight Howard before he becomes a free agent next summer, according to sources.

In order to improve the offer, the Nets are willing to absorb the contract of Hedo Turkoglu, who has three seasons and $35 million remaining on his contract. The Nets would be able to acquire his contract due to cap space created by the expected release of Travis Outlaw.

The Lakers and Knicks are widely presumed to be Howard's preferred destinations.

Despite their interest in Howard, the Nets are expected to make offers to Nene and Tyson Chandler.

Via Marc Stein/ESPN


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1fCTFokI3

That is actually a pretty good deal for the Magic if they decide that it's inevitable that Dwight is leaving. They get a young, top 5 center in Brook Lopez and 2 first round picks. I think that with Deron Williams and Dwight alone this season, that team may still be only a borderline playoff team due to the fact the supporting cast is nothing but D-leaguers.... so there's potential for the picks to be lottery picks as well. Add in the fact that the Nets are willing to take on Hedo's toxic contract and it becomes very appealing.

SmoothOperator wrote:

Nets Preparing Trade Offer For Dwight Howard

The Nets are prepared to offer Brook Lopez and two future first round picks to acquire Dwight Howard before he becomes a free agent next summer, according to sources.

In order to improve the offer, the Nets are willing to absorb the contract of Hedo Turkoglu, who has three seasons and $35 million remaining on his contract. The Nets would be able to acquire his contract due to cap space created by the expected release of Travis Outlaw.

The Lakers and Knicks are widely presumed to be Howard's preferred destinations.

Despite their interest in Howard, the Nets are expected to make offers to Nene and Tyson Chandler.

Via Marc Stein/ESPN


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1fCTFokI3

That is actually a pretty good deal for the Magic if they decide that it's inevitable that Dwight is leaving. They get a young, top 5 center in Brook Lopez and 2 first round picks. I think that with Deron Williams and Dwight alone this season, that team may still be only a borderline playoff team due to the fact the supporting cast is nothing but D-leaguers.... so there's potential for the picks to be lottery picks as well. Add in the fact that the Nets are willing to take on Hedo's toxic contract and it becomes very appealing.

Yea but would Dwight sign an ext with the Nets? I'm not so sure he would...

Plus, Brook Lopez is average, he can barely rebound the ball, and he doesn't win u games. The Magic get better players in the Lakers deal...and Bynum is still young. I'm not buying the Nets offer at all. Lakers can offer better and still take back a deal like Turk in the deal.

therealdeal wrote:

lakerfan2 wrote:We can send Bynum and Lamar for Dwight, Hedo and Bass.

And totally amnesty Hedo.

You know you laugh, but it's totally a possibility. It would work out pretty damn well for both teams.

Except the part on amnesty Hedo. You can only amnesty a player you had under contract before the new CBA was put in place.

I thought he would have to be under the Lakers before the new CBA. I probably misunderstood that part of the rule then.

The debates can go on and on. No one is gonna know for sure. Who knew the Gasol trade was gonna go down? We can sit here and argue, but teams are unpredictable, no one knew that the Grizzlies were gonna give up Gasol for poop. Everyone though Odom and or Bynum would've have been included in the deal. So we don't know, we think we may know. But in reality, something unpredictable can happen. Who knows, Howard and CP3 come to the Lakers for guys we didn't even think about. So lets reserve our debates when the moves are done, and then criticize the bad moves that were mad, or praise the good moves that were made. Because these debates will go nowhere.

davriver290 wrote:The debates can go on and on. No one is gonna know for sure. Who knew the Gasol trade was gonna go down? We can sit here and argue, but teams are unpredictable, no one knew that the Grizzlies were gonna give up Gasol for poop. Everyone though Odom and or Bynum would've have been included in the deal. So we don't know, we think we may know. But in reality, something unpredictable can happen. Who knows, Howard and CP3 come to the Lakers for guys we didn't even think about. So lets reserve our debates when the moves are done, and then criticize the bad moves that were mad, or praise the good moves that were made. Because these debates will go nowhere.

Both Dwight and CP3 are SUPERSTARS though...I don't think Pau was a SUPERSTAR in memphis esp at the time that we traded for him...he had some nagging injuries and the Grizzlies were not playing well, whereas both Dwight and Cp3 have been int he playoffs almost every year since they came into the league. Don't think for a second that we would get either of these guys without giving up some combination of LO, Bynum and Gasol. Most likely, all 3 are gone if we want to get both Dwight and Cp3, and then we'll have to hope some amnesty guys do not get picked up by other over-spending teams and guys are willing to come and play for cheap. I think I'd rather get Dwight for Bynum and LO and then sign a PG rather than gut our team and get rid of Gasol too...although I'd future would be in tact with Dwight and Cp3 after Kobe retires....so i guess i wouldn't be TOO upset if it happened.

XXIV wrote:I thought he would have to be under the Lakers before the new CBA. I probably misunderstood that part of the rule then.

And you would be correct sir. Sorry realdeal to those and to those that cleverly tried to find a hiccup in the new CBA, but unfortunately they already patched that potential exploit up.

The player is only eligible for amnesty if they are a current player on the roster as of Dec. 9th and have a contract that was consummated under the 2005 CBA.

Damn....stupid fine print.....haha

Well now Billy King is denying it to the media. Anyways how does Orlando dump 28mil+ in salary for a 3mil contract and 2 picks? Love how they just gloss over these minor details.

I still think behind the scenes there we are still a player for Dwiight

Bynum, Odom, Shannon, 1st

for

Howard

Usually when there are not many reports a deal can be made. Lewis would then fill the void left by losing Odom and Lewis knows how to play with Howard. I know you may think I'm an insider but this is just a hunch

silversurfer wrote:I still think behind the scenes there we are still a player for Dwiight

Bynum, Odom, Shannon, 1st

for

Howard

Usually when there are not many reports a deal can be made. Lewis would then fill the void left by losing Odom and Lewis knows how to play with Howard. I know you may think I'm an insider but this is just a hunch

Quote of the year. Thank you.

Vasashi17 wrote:

XXIV wrote:I thought he would have to be under the Lakers before the new CBA. I probably misunderstood that part of the rule then.

And you would be correct sir. Sorry realdeal to those and to those that cleverly tried to find a hiccup in the new CBA, but unfortunately they already patched that potential exploit up.

The player is only eligible for amnesty if they are a current player on the roster as of Dec. 9th and have a contract that was consummated under the 2005 CBA.

Damn....stupid fine print.....haha

Thanks for the clarification.

bucher(i know, i know, but bear with me me) said that he thinks dwight will be a mav.

im missing something

what on earth could they give up for Dwight? they have nothing
Roddy Beaubois?

Hard to see both happening. One of the two is a longshot, but like someone else said, we almost have to make some kind of deal. Both Kobe and Pau's contracts together will eat up most of the cap for the next three years. I like those guys, but damn, their contracts are really going to suffocate this team and be the biggest barrier to getting better under this new system. Only option I see is starting to draft well. Not an easy thing either. Even less room for error than before.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1629 ... nzy-exists

It's no surprise to anyone that the Lakers will be one of the primary suitors in a possible trade for Howard, and a person with knowledge of the team's strategy told CBSSports.com that executive Jim Buss finally has dropped his opposition to trading center Andrew Bynum "for the right deal." That's code for "a deal for Dwight Howard," and it's clear from those familiar with Howard's thinking that he'd like to join the Lakers. Bynum may or may not be on the Magic's list of suitable replacements for Howard in a potential deal that also would have to include young players on rookie contracts and draft picks. The Bucks' Andrew Bogut may be a better fit, a notion that has conjured speculation in the agent community of a three-team deal that would land Bynum in Milwaukee, Bogut in Orlando and Howard in L.A. The Lakers' arena mates at Staples Center, the Clippers, also are believed to be willing to do whatever it takes to get Howard. The Clips have both the cap space to land Howard next summer and plenty of assets to entice Orlando, including Eric Gordon, Al-Farouq Aminu and a signed-and-traded DeAndre Jordan. Cap-space and asset-wise, few teams are in as good a shape as the Clippers over the next two years. If only they could use the amnesty provision on owner Donald Sterling.