Dwight Discussion: Dwightmare on Figueroa St. Part Boo

borri wrote:Antoni offensive needs:

1. PnR PG....Check
2. PnR big man.....nope.
3. Shooters other than Nash....nope.
4. Speed and athleticism.....nope.

Why did we hire this guy?

'Cuz Jimmy cant count past 1 and never got to the rest of the list?

borri wrote:
PJ TRI needs:

1. PG who can shoot....Check.
2. SG who can score ala MJ....check.
3. Big man who can pass and shoot.....check.
4. Big man who can score in the post ala Shaq-Tri....check.

And we passed up on PJ?

Who's the "Big Man" that can score in the post like Shaq?...... No one in the NBA can score in the post like Shaq.... even against Community College players....

Rooscooter wrote:

therealdeal wrote:To be fair he made a good point.

Howards and Bynums are very rare. D'Antoni's aren't. I know what you're saying and if we were talking about Howard vs. Phil I'd pick Phil, but Howard vs. D'Antoni is easy for me.

And we should be firing D'Antoni this summer anyway... especially if we miss the playoffs. Two quotes (although they're paraphrased):

D'Antoni when he was hired and the team's expectations: "We expect to win. If we don't win, fire me because I'm doing something wrong."
Jerry Buss when asked if the team got a bonus for making the playoffs: "Bonus? If you don't make the playoffs, you don't work here anymore."

I remember all of that too.... but if we are changing coaches and moving players just to get Howard touches in his sweet spot we will become Orlando all over again..... Otis Smith and SVG bent over backwards for Howard.... and how where they thanked?....

Make Howard state he want's to be a Laker for life...... then make the moves.... don't do it the other way around. He may be the best Big in the game but he's proven nothing that really matters in Laker terms IMO.

I tend to lean towards your thinking Roo. I know this season is bad, but we usually make players prove themselves before becoming a true Laker centerpiece.

I'm not saying it's ALL on Howard, but no sense starting to make organizational changes when his production frankly hasnt been there and I haven't seen anything from him that suggests he is happy here and wants to stay and be our guy.

Rooscooter wrote:I remember all of that too.... but if we are changing coaches and moving players just to get Howard touches in his sweet spot we will become Orlando all over again..... Otis Smith and SVG bent over backwards for Howard.... and how where they thanked?....

Make Howard state he want's to be a Laker for life...... then make the moves.... don't do it the other way around. He may be the best Big in the game but he's proven nothing that really matters in Laker terms IMO.

The point I'm making is that they need to fire D'Antoni anyway. Regardless of Dwight's personal preference of coaches and touches and what have you.

The two happen to coincide but really it needs to be done regardless.

If we are discussing who to keep -- Dwight or MDA... I think the choice is obvious.

Rooscooter wrote:

borri wrote:
PJ TRI needs:

1. PG who can shoot....Check.
2. SG who can score ala MJ....check.
3. Big man who can pass and shoot.....check.
4. Big man who can score in the post ala Shaq-Tri....check.

And we passed up on PJ?

Who's the "Big Man" that can score in the post like Shaq?...... No one in the NBA can score in the post like Shaq.... even against Community College players....

Sigh.....no point. I get it. You don't like D12. I get it. D12 sucks. ORL with D12 didn't get to the NBA finals. ORL wasn't a contending team at all with D12.

Finally R E A D. Ala Shaq-Tri. NOT Shaq himself. I don't need to explain myself further.

karacha wrote:If we are discussing who to keep -- Dwight or MDA... I think the choice is obvious.

But are you confident enough in what you've seen from Dwight so far that you wan to start firing people and building the team and organization around him; ala Orlando Magic?

karacha wrote:If we are discussing who to keep -- Dwight or MDA... I think the choice is obvious.

You'd think.

phoenixrisingla wrote:

borri wrote:Antoni offensive needs:

1. PnR PG....Check
2. PnR big man.....nope.
3. Shooters other than Nash....nope.
4. Speed and athleticism.....nope.

Why did we hire this guy?

'Cuz Jimmy cant count past 1 and never got to the rest of the list?

LOL right? Can there be any other logical explanation?

karacha wrote:If we are discussing who to keep -- Dwight or MDA... I think the choice is obvious.

I'm one to defend the FO on decisions, but if it came down to this and the FO chose MDA, someone needs to be slapped, fired or both.

phoenixrisingla wrote:

karacha wrote:If we are discussing who to keep -- Dwight or MDA... I think the choice is obvious.

But are you confident enough in what you've seen from Dwight so far that you wan to start firing people and building the team and organization around him; ala Orlando Magic?

I'm confident that D'Antoni needs to be fired REGARDLESS of Dwight's preferences. We don't need to hire Phil (or someone to placate Dwight) after we fire D'Antoni, we just need to really fire D'Antoni

borri wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

borri wrote:
PJ TRI needs:

1. PG who can shoot....Check.
2. SG who can score ala MJ....check.
3. Big man who can pass and shoot.....check.
4. Big man who can score in the post ala Shaq-Tri....check.

And we passed up on PJ?

Who's the "Big Man" that can score in the post like Shaq?...... No one in the NBA can score in the post like Shaq.... even against Community College players....

Sigh.....no point. I get it. You don't like D12. I get it. D12 sucks. ORL with D12 didn't get to the NBA finals. ORL wasn't a contending team at all with D12.

Finally R E A D. Ala Shaq-Tri. NOT Shaq himself. I don't need to explain myself further.

Ala Shaq..... means literally "like Shaq"....

Like has little to do with my view of Howard. I see what I see. He's injured.... he's in a system where he isn't THE GUY and he's not getting the ball in his sweet spot. The issue is.... do we change everything to accommodate him or do we ask him to do what he can do to help us the most?.... He seems to be wanting the former and real teams are made from the latter.....

I don't like Chris Paul..... Howard seems like he be fun to hang with. That should clarify things for you....

I think he's still the best center in the league. He's a two way player -- a defensive guy who can contribute significantly on the offensive end. Rebounds. Blocks shots. His back seems to be OK. The shoulder worries me slightly, but that problem can be fixed without long-term consequences. So yeah - I'd keep him. Otherwise we need a new center. And no center is better when you "calculate" health+defense+offense+athleticism.

I do admit that he has no real offensive moves. But I knew that years ago. He's still the best all-round center. This is kinda sad, but that's modern basketball for you, and you need someone to play a 5. What else? Trade him for Marc Gasol?

phoenixrisingla wrote:

karacha wrote:If we are discussing who to keep -- Dwight or MDA... I think the choice is obvious.

But are you confident enough in what you've seen from Dwight so far that you wan to start firing people and building the team and organization around him; ala Orlando Magic?

Heres the thing.

1. How often does a superstar come around for us to build around? 2014, hoping to land Lebron? We can do that sure. But that's a big IF.

2. ORL did get to the Finals. Would have gotten there more often had it not been for the Big 3 green bastards. So it worked. It's not like we are venturing into new territory here.

3. What if we can get another stud to go with D12? Why not try for Lebron AND D12 when Kobe's huge salary comes off the books and Pau's.

Is it a sure thing? Nope. D12 is really good. But he ain't Shaq good. But then again, we'll probably won't see a Shaq good for another 20 years....if ever.

Rooscooter wrote:

borri wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

borri wrote:
PJ TRI needs:

1. PG who can shoot....Check.
2. SG who can score ala MJ....check.
3. Big man who can pass and shoot.....check.
4. Big man who can score in the post ala Shaq-Tri....check.

And we passed up on PJ?

Who's the "Big Man" that can score in the post like Shaq?...... No one in the NBA can score in the post like Shaq.... even against Community College players....

Sigh.....no point. I get it. You don't like D12. I get it. D12 sucks. ORL with D12 didn't get to the NBA finals. ORL wasn't a contending team at all with D12.

Finally R E A D. Ala Shaq-Tri. NOT Shaq himself. I don't need to explain myself further.

Ala Shaq..... means literally "like Shaq"....

Like has little to do with my view of Howard. I see what I see. He's injured.... he's in a system where he isn't THE GUY and he's not getting the ball in his sweet spot. The issue is.... do we change everything to accommodate him or do we ask him to do what he can do to help us the most?.... He seems to be wanting the former and real teams are made from the latter.....

I don't like Chris Paul..... Howard seems like he be fun to hang with. That should clarify things for you....

Once again. I said ala SHAQ-TRI not ala Shaq. I'll explain. I thought I didn't need to. Shaq -TRI = Tri nerfed to accommodate a back to the basket C. I hope we are clear now.

Did you really think I thought D12 is Shaq-like? Really?

phoenixrisingla wrote:

borri wrote:Antoni offensive needs:

1. PnR PG....Check
2. PnR big man.....nope.
3. Shooters other than Nash....nope.
4. Speed and athleticism.....nope.

Why did we hire this guy?

'Cuz Jimmy cant count past 1 and never got to the rest of the list?

I bet this Mike promised to give Jim a better set of DVD's then the other Mike

borri wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

borri wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

borri wrote:
PJ TRI needs:

1. PG who can shoot....Check.
2. SG who can score ala MJ....check.
3. Big man who can pass and shoot.....check.
4. Big man who can score in the post ala Shaq-Tri....check.

And we passed up on PJ?

Who's the "Big Man" that can score in the post like Shaq?...... No one in the NBA can score in the post like Shaq.... even against Community College players....

Sigh.....no point. I get it. You don't like D12. I get it. D12 sucks. ORL with D12 didn't get to the NBA finals. ORL wasn't a contending team at all with D12.

Finally R E A D. Ala Shaq-Tri. NOT Shaq himself. I don't need to explain myself further.

Ala Shaq..... means literally "like Shaq"....

Like has little to do with my view of Howard. I see what I see. He's injured.... he's in a system where he isn't THE GUY and he's not getting the ball in his sweet spot. The issue is.... do we change everything to accommodate him or do we ask him to do what he can do to help us the most?.... He seems to be wanting the former and real teams are made from the latter.....

I don't like Chris Paul..... Howard seems like he be fun to hang with. That should clarify things for you....

Once again. I said ala SHAQ-TRI not ala Shaq. I'll explain. I thought I didn't need to. Shaq -TRI = Tri nerfed to accommodate a back to the basket C. I hope we are clear now.

Did you really think I thought D12 is Shaq-like? Really?

Yes..... based on previous encounters.....

Does this mean you're going to even larger size text in your next response?.....

If it comes down to MDA or Dwight. Id have to let MDA go. Dwight has age on his side.

Having said that, MDA or not, Sloan or not, Phil or whoever the coach maybe, you better damn add some shooters and young players out in the perimeter. The game has changed. You can still add guys like Delonte West and that could make some difference he can play the PG/SG adequate and plays better one on one defense and team defense than most guards in the league.

Rooscooter wrote:Yes..... based on previous encounters.....

Does this mean you're going to even larger size text in your next response?.....

Yes if that's what it takes for you to listen. I'll do it again for old times sake...SHAQ - TRI.

LOL you really think I thought D12 = Shaq. LOL. Funniest thing I've read in a long time.

The Rock wrote:If it comes down to MDA or Dwight. Id have to let MDA go. Dwight has age on his side.

Having said that, MDA or not, Sloan or not, Phil or whoever the coach maybe, you better damn add some shooters and young players out in the perimeter. The game has changed. You can still add guys like Delonte West and that could make some difference he can play the PG/SG adequate and plays better one on one defense and team defense than most guards in the league.

Yup... floor balance, depth and speed/quickness are a formula for success. A team of big name vets may have marketing cache' but we're painfully learning that without a balanced team or starting 5 names don't' mean squat.

hollywood swinger wrote:

So we have a blue PF and a yellow center..... oh... and a growing teal fan base.....

phoenixrisingla wrote:

karacha wrote:If we are discussing who to keep -- Dwight or MDA... I think the choice is obvious.

But are you confident enough in what you've seen from Dwight so far that you wan to start firing people and building the team and organization around him; ala Orlando Magic?

We knew going into the season that we probably wouldn't get a good idea of how Dwight would work out because of the fact he was recovering. The decision has to be made from how good he was before the surgery, and the assumption that he'll get back to that level of play, or at least close to it.

Rooscooter wrote:

hollywood swinger wrote:

So we have a blue PF and a yellow center..... oh... and a growing teal fan base.....

PG: mostly blue, with some green
SG: yellow/teal combination
SF: jumping from blue to teal and back
PF: blue
C: yellow.

Fan base: definitely teal.