Dwight Discussion: Dwightmare on Figueroa St. Part Boo

Weezy wrote:75% is a number Dwight himself threw out there, not sure I even believe him. Also, Durant is good next to Westbrook? Be serious, he's good period, that's a bad comparison. And ok we'll go with that, what's Dwight's excuse for not looking good next to Kobe, who is better than Westbrook? Dwight's not alike, Kobe IS elite, and Dwight looks bad with him. In fact Dwight has never played with an elite guy next to him, and if this is the best example of that it's a a disaster, Kobe is an all time great, you can't really ask for a more elite guy next to him. That's not even mentioning Nash, one of the best passers of all time, you can't play your best next to those 2, I don't want you as my guy going forward. Apparently Dwight can only do well surrounded by shooters and a PG to spoon feed him.

abeer3 wrote:

Weezy wrote:75% is a number Dwight himself threw out there, not sure I even believe him. Also, Durant is good next to Westbrook? Be serious, he's good period, that's a bad comparison. And ok we'll go with that, what's Dwight's excuse for not looking good next to Kobe, who is better than Westbrook? Dwight's not alike, Kobe IS elite, and Dwight looks bad with him. In fact Dwight has never played with an elite guy next to him, and if this is the best example of that it's a a disaster, Kobe is an all time great, you can't really ask for a more elite guy next to him. That's not even mentioning Nash, one of the best passers of all time, you can't play your best next to those 2, I don't want you as my guy going forward. Apparently Dwight can only do well surrounded by shooters and a PG to spoon feed him.

on paper, kobe is the ideal running mate for dwight. i think there are lots of reasons why things haven't worked out to this point; dwight's health and his inability to deal with it gracefully have certainly been part of it. but having a coach who doesn't truly want to work with him and one of the key cogs on the team being a pretty poor fit next to him hasn't helped.

dwight has disappointed me in many ways, but if the lakers want to remain viable, he's their only path, imo. for better or worse.

Rooscooter wrote:Agreed on the part about getting another star here..... But a max deal with no other star isn't going to cut it either.....we'll be decent but not a contender.... We need to develop talent....to do that we need to get some first. Something we've neglected for 15 years

abeer3 wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:Agreed on the part about getting another star here..... But a max deal with no other star isn't going to cut it either.....we'll be decent but not a contender.... We need to develop talent....to do that we need to get some first. Something we've neglected for 15 years

oh, i hear you. but i consider dwight a bird in the hand. the problem with a lakers rebuild is that kobe's still viable, so what are you supposed to do with that? i'd like to get some young talent in la, but i'm not sure how it happens until kobe and pau's giant deals are off the books. when that happens, i want somebody in place, else the lakers could look like the post-mj bulls, overpaying eddie robinsons to try and claw back to mediocrity.

i wish dwight was more mature and healthier, but i just don't see a better alternative to even this version.

SpencerHarrison wrote:I could not disagree more. I would sooner build a young, angry squad around Hill and Clark than bet on Dwight to raise up the trophy. He is fools gold.

abeer3 wrote:

SpencerHarrison wrote:I could not disagree more. I would sooner build a young, angry squad around Hill and Clark than bet on Dwight to raise up the trophy. He is fools gold.

you want to win 7 games next year?

and people said lebron would never hoist a trophy. people said kobe would never get one without shaq. things have a way of changing for top level players. maybe dwight's done being that guy, but i certainly wouldn't bet against it with a backup plan of hill, clark, and hustle.

SpencerHarrison wrote:

abeer3 wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:Agreed on the part about getting another star here..... But a max deal with no other star isn't going to cut it either.....we'll be decent but not a contender.... We need to develop talent....to do that we need to get some first. Something we've neglected for 15 years

oh, i hear you. but i consider dwight a bird in the hand. the problem with a lakers rebuild is that kobe's still viable, so what are you supposed to do with that? i'd like to get some young talent in la, but i'm not sure how it happens until kobe and pau's giant deals are off the books. when that happens, i want somebody in place, else the lakers could look like the post-mj bulls, overpaying eddie robinsons to try and claw back to mediocrity.

i wish dwight was more mature and healthier, but i just don't see a better alternative to even this version.

My point is, we're going to be hurting post Kobe either way. Dwight ain't the guy. Chris Paul could have been. But it is what it is, and Howard = mediocrity. I would rather spend some years developing a young core, than try and double down with D12.

SpencerHarrison wrote:My point is, we're going to be hurting post Kobe either way. Dwight ain't the guy. Chris Paul could have been. But it is what it is, and Howard = mediocrity. I would rather spend some years developing a young core, than try and double down with D12.

abeer3 wrote:

SpencerHarrison wrote:I could not disagree more. I would sooner build a young, angry squad around Hill and Clark than bet on Dwight to raise up the trophy. He is fools gold.

you want to win 7 games next year?

and people said lebron would never hoist a trophy. people said kobe would never get one without shaq. things have a way of changing for top level players. maybe dwight's done being that guy, but i certainly wouldn't bet against it with a backup plan of hill, clark, and hustle.

SpencerHarrison wrote:Chris Paul could have been.

SpencerHarrison wrote:But just look at the shape of your argument - you are inherently comparing Dwight with Kobe and Lebron. Sure, both had the haters. But Dwight is absolutely NOT on the same level as those two players even with a bionic back and brain transplant. And yes, I would rather have a down year, clean books and young players than a 2nd round exit with a max Dwight contract. He's not our guy. We might not find our guy for a few more years, but I'd rather not have Mitch hamstrung with bloated paychecks being sent to a spineless manchild.

Rooscooter wrote:

SpencerHarrison wrote:

abeer3 wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:Agreed on the part about getting another star here..... But a max deal with no other star isn't going to cut it either.....we'll be decent but not a contender.... We need to develop talent....to do that we need to get some first. Something we've neglected for 15 years

oh, i hear you. but i consider dwight a bird in the hand. the problem with a lakers rebuild is that kobe's still viable, so what are you supposed to do with that? i'd like to get some young talent in la, but i'm not sure how it happens until kobe and pau's giant deals are off the books. when that happens, i want somebody in place, else the lakers could look like the post-mj bulls, overpaying eddie robinsons to try and claw back to mediocrity.

i wish dwight was more mature and healthier, but i just don't see a better alternative to even this version.

My point is, we're going to be hurting post Kobe either way. Dwight ain't the guy. Chris Paul could have been. But it is what it is, and Howard = mediocrity. I would rather spend some years developing a young core, than try and double down with D12.

Whoops!.... You had me until you put Paul in there........ He's as successful as Howard at "leading" and just as one dimensional..... When teams gameplan for a 7 game series Paul is not nearly as effective... Pop and SA showed that last year.... Finding a player that is complete and a leader is what we need.

CarolinaLakerFan wrote:Trade D12 and MWP to Brooklyn for Lopez, Wallace and Marshawn Brooks and be done with it. It's obvious he doesn't want to be here.

CarolinaLakerFan wrote:Trade D12 and MWP to Brooklyn for Lopez, Wallace and Marshawn Brooks and be done with it. It's obvious he doesn't want to be here.

last stand wrote:

CarolinaLakerFan wrote:Trade D12 and MWP to Brooklyn for Lopez, Wallace and Marshawn Brooks and be done with it. It's obvious he doesn't want to be here.

great idea. lets trade dwight for 2 ok players with ridiculous contracts and a young player who's taken a massive dip in his 2nd year.

sounds like a great idea. where do i sign up.

while we're at it lets trade kobe for joe johnson. might as well stockpile ludicrous contracts in exchange for worse players.

Finwë wrote:

last stand wrote:

CarolinaLakerFan wrote:Trade D12 and MWP to Brooklyn for Lopez, Wallace and Marshawn Brooks and be done with it. It's obvious he doesn't want to be here.

great idea. lets trade dwight for 2 ok players with ridiculous contracts and a young player who's taken a massive dip in his 2nd year.

sounds like a great idea. where do i sign up.

while we're at it lets trade kobe for joe johnson. might as well stockpile ludicrous contracts in exchange for worse players.

How about, assuming the FO believes he's gonna walk, Howard to POR for Aldridge and Batum? Add MWP and maybe get Wes Matthews back.
Nash/Blake
Kobe/Wes Matthews
Batum/Clark
Aldridge/Jamison
Pau/Hill

Offensively it seems the pieces would fit much better. I don't know about our D though.

Finwë wrote:

last stand wrote:

CarolinaLakerFan wrote:Trade D12 and MWP to Brooklyn for Lopez, Wallace and Marshawn Brooks and be done with it. It's obvious he doesn't want to be here.

great idea. lets trade dwight for 2 ok players with ridiculous contracts and a young player who's taken a massive dip in his 2nd year.

sounds like a great idea. where do i sign up.

while we're at it lets trade kobe for joe johnson. might as well stockpile ludicrous contracts in exchange for worse players.

How about, assuming the FO believes he's gonna walk, Howard to POR for Aldridge and Batum? Add MWP and maybe get Wes Matthews back.
Nash/Blake
Kobe/Wes Matthews
Batum/Clark
Aldridge/Jamison
Pau/Hill

Offensively it seems the pieces would fit much better. I don't know about our D though.

therealdeal wrote:^ You and I have talked about this before: that team is a 2nd exit. They're too one dimensional: namely they're all offense.

You guys can try to trade Dwight all you want, the fact is he's the best around right now. Is he an inherent winner? It seems not as much as I'd like him to be. But regardless of that he's still the best Center in the league when he's healthy and he can be a fantastic piece to the puzzle.

Everyone wants to let him go for a better leader/piece. I don't see that piece existing right now. Give me a year or two and there'll be another young guy available whether it be Irving or Wall or someone of that nature, we're going to get a young guard to run with him and that'll change the way we perceive him.

Shaq wasn't a winner until he was a Laker either.

We're all about instant gratification, which is odd because there's also an emphasis on youth development. Here's the things: we've developed youth just fine. Vujacic, Farmar, Turiaf, Ariza, Hill, now Clark, Shannon Brown. These are all players that we've either drafted or developed in house. We let most of those guys go, but we're still developing them. With the new CBA it'll be easier actually to keep some of those guys because they won't really find much money elsewhere.

What we really should do is exactly what we're doing: pour money into Kobe's last runs, hit the rest button, and hit the ground running after a year below the cap.