Lets Go Lakers wrote:LeBron does have basketball skills. He has a very high IQ and is a good passer but it still doesn't change the fact that he is what he is because of his athleticism. That is his main weapon. You take away his off the charts athelticism and what is he? An average to good player. I hope you aren't going to argue this.

You shouldn't hope.... The point is that LeBron's athleticism wouldn't be a factor if he didn't develop of jumper, didn't have very good ball handling for a player his size and be able to shoot with both hands. The fundamental he possessed when he came in the league were "average" but his athleticism was at or near the top. The combination makes him who he is along with the growth in BBIQ and confidence.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:As for Rose, the guy's handles aren't that good. I would say there are plenty of guys with much better handles. The guy turns the ball over a lot just like Westbrook becasue they are reckless and wild. You take away the athleticism of these guys and i would say their skill level is average at best. They just blow by guys with his explosion.

His handles aren't that good..... umm... O.K.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:And we all know that Howard can't create shots for himself. He's a C with a limited offensive game. The people who want Howard here are going off the assumption that we would get a star PG to compliment Howard.

Nash doesn't complement Howard.... or he isn't a "star"? Nash is probably the best point guard the game has seen since Stockton retired and he doesn't fit your definition of a complementary piece to Howard..... Ummm.. O.K. 2.0

Rooscooter wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:LeBron does have basketball skills. He has a very high IQ and is a good passer but it still doesn't change the fact that he is what he is because of his athleticism. That is his main weapon. You take away his off the charts athelticism and what is he? An average to good player. I hope you aren't going to argue this.

You shouldn't hope.... The point is that LeBron's athleticism wouldn't be a factor if he didn't develop of jumper, didn't have very good ball handling for a player his size and be able to shoot with both hands. The fundamental he possessed when he came in the league were "average" but his athleticism was at or near the top. The combination makes him who he is along with the growth in BBIQ and confidence.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:As for Rose, the guy's handles aren't that good. I would say there are plenty of guys with much better handles. The guy turns the ball over a lot just like Westbrook becasue they are reckless and wild. You take away the athleticism of these guys and i would say their skill level is average at best. They just blow by guys with his explosion.

His handles aren't that good..... umm... O.K.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:And we all know that Howard can't create shots for himself. He's a C with a limited offensive game. The people who want Howard here are going off the assumption that we would get a star PG to compliment Howard.

Nash doesn't complement Howard.... or he isn't a "star"? Nash is probably the best point guard the game has seen since Stockton retired and he doesn't fit your definition of a complementary piece to Howard..... Ummm.. O.K. 2.0

Why bother. Agree to disagree about LeBron and Rose.

Nash is freaken 39. He's very near the end. Give Howard a guy who can do it on both ends like a prime CP3 and see how good Howard looks.

I don't get the argument of "if you take away" because you can't actually take it away. And people use that against Kobe all the time, so why use it against someone like Lebron or Rose, because they aren't on the Lakers or some other agenda.

1. Nash can still draw the defense to him like an elite PG. So Dwight playing with Nash is not too different from how his "game would change" with CP3. Notice the pick and rolls they run? If anything, they're not effective because Dwight can't hold on to the ball/finish at the basket.

2. Is this still a thread? We don't even know if Dwight can play the rest of this season. Take that along with his back injury, and this shouldn't be a discussion. Kobe was broken the 2 seasons before this one, and still put up numbers on par with his career.

^^^

Right now, CP3 sh*ts on Nash. Nash shows periods of brilliance and the other times, he's average and also getting torched on the defensive end. He's also overwhlemed sometimes by the overall athleticism of the game at times. CP3 is at the height of his powers and is brilliant 95% of the time. Also plays amazing defense. He caj break down a defense anytime he wants. I would take probably a dozen pgs over Nash right now.

Lets Go Lakers wrote::man11: ^^^

Right now, CP3 sh*ts on Nash. Nash shows periods of brilliance and the other times, he's average and also getting torched on the defensive end. He's also overwhlemed sometimes by the overall athleticism of the game at times. CP3 is at the height of his powers and is brilliant 95% of the time. Also plays amazing defense. He caj break down a defense anytime he wants. I would take probably a dozen pgs over Nash right now.

Well here's your chance..... lets see just how much you can teach us.... NAME 12 OF THEM!....

Will you go away if we tell you we pick Howard?

Rooscooter wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote::man11: ^^^

Right now, CP3 sh*ts on Nash. Nash shows periods of brilliance and the other times, he's average and also getting torched on the defensive end. He's also overwhlemed sometimes by the overall athleticism of the game at times. CP3 is at the height of his powers and is brilliant 95% of the time. Also plays amazing defense. He caj break down a defense anytime he wants. I would take probably a dozen pgs over Nash right now.

Well here's your chance..... lets see just how much you can teach us.... NAME 12 OF THEM!....

OK, before you read the list, keep in mind that i am factoring in what type of PG would help this particular team. I am factoring what it needs. Our backcourt is a turnstile on defense with Nash and Kobe and we seriously lack some young legs. So athleticism is a strong consideration along with the ability to play some D. So this list is definitely not a list of who i think are better than Nash but rather who are better fits for this particular Laker team.

For sure take over Nash:

CP3
Westbrook
Rose
Irving
Deron
Rhondo
Parker

Possibly take over Nash:

Bledsoe
Lawson
Jrue
Curry
Jennings

"For sure" > "Probably" > "Possibly"

You're at 7. Waiting on five more.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote::man11: ^^^

Right now, CP3 sh*ts on Nash. Nash shows periods of brilliance and the other times, he's average and also getting torched on the defensive end. He's also overwhlemed sometimes by the overall athleticism of the game at times. CP3 is at the height of his powers and is brilliant 95% of the time. Also plays amazing defense. He caj break down a defense anytime he wants. I would take probably a dozen pgs over Nash right now.

Well here's your chance..... lets see just how much you can teach us.... NAME 12 OF THEM!....

OK, before you read the list, keep in mind that i am factoring in what type of PG would help this particular team. I am factoring what it needs. Our backcourt is a turnstile on defense with Nash and Kobe and we seriously lack some young legs. So athleticism is a strong consideration along with the ability to play some D. So this list is definitely not a list of who i think are better than Nash but rather who are better fits for this particular Laker team.

For sure take over Nash:

CP3
Westbrook
Rose
Irving
Deron
Rhondo
Parker

Possibly take over Nash:

Bledsoe
Lawson
Jrue
Curry
Jennings

12 huh.... Damn public schools....

Your list looks like a pre-season ranking for a Fantasy Draft. What about success in the post season? That would eliminate all but Rondo and Parker IMO over a guy like Nash. CP3's failures in the offseason are pretty spectacular as are Westbrook's.

Nash is a better fit for a veteran Laker team than almost all of those you have listed. He has proven he knows how to play with scorers (Dirk), one dimensional bigs (Stat) and in varying systems. You think a guy like Kobe is going to defer to guys like Irving, Bledsoe Jrue, Jennings or Curry? Westbrook, Curry, Jrue and Jennings aren't true point guards other than where they get listed on the program either.

I've long admired Rondo's ability to raise his game when it counts...... and to me that counts for more than all of the Fantasy stats and athleticism combined. The league is full of athletic players that never achieve anything other than a few highlight reel plays and SC top 10's

IMO you have listed 3 or 4 others that could be in the conversation but have made no convincing arguments. That's a far cry from "a dozen" isn't it?

Rooscooter wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote::man11: ^^^

Right now, CP3 sh*ts on Nash. Nash shows periods of brilliance and the other times, he's average and also getting torched on the defensive end. He's also overwhlemed sometimes by the overall athleticism of the game at times. CP3 is at the height of his powers and is brilliant 95% of the time. Also plays amazing defense. He caj break down a defense anytime he wants. I would take probably a dozen pgs over Nash right now.

Well here's your chance..... lets see just how much you can teach us.... NAME 12 OF THEM!....

OK, before you read the list, keep in mind that i am factoring in what type of PG would help this particular team. I am factoring what it needs. Our backcourt is a turnstile on defense with Nash and Kobe and we seriously lack some young legs. So athleticism is a strong consideration along with the ability to play some D. So this list is definitely not a list of who i think are better than Nash but rather who are better fits for this particular Laker team.

For sure take over Nash:

CP3
Westbrook
Rose
Irving
Deron
Rhondo
Parker

Possibly take over Nash:

Bledsoe
Lawson
Jrue
Curry
Jennings

12 huh.... Damn public schools....

Your list looks like a pre-season ranking for a Fantasy Draft. What about success in the post season? That would eliminate all but Rondo and Parker IMO over a guy like Nash. CP3's failures in the offseason are pretty spectacular as are Westbrook's.

Nash is a better fit for a veteran Laker team than almost all of those you have listed. He has proven he knows how to play with scorers (Dirk), one dimensional bigs (Stat) and in varying systems. You think a guy like Kobe is going to defer to guys like Irving, Bledsoe Jrue, Jennings or Curry? Westbrook, Curry, Jrue and Jennings aren't true point guards other than where they get listed on the program either.

I've long admired Rondo's ability to raise his game when it counts...... and to me that counts for more than all of the Fantasy stats and athleticism combined. The league is full of athletic players that never achieve anything other than a few highlight reel plays and SC top 10's

IMO you have listed 3 or 4 others that could be in the conversation but have made no convincing arguments. That's a far cry from "a dozen" isn't it?

CP3 carved up the Lakers pretty good in the playoffs his last year in NO. Rose got to conference finals, same as Nash. Westbrook actually got to the finals. Irving looks like the real deal and any team would be crazy to not want him on their team in playoffs.

Anyways, any of those PG's would be FINE on this team instead of Nash. We've had Fisher and Sessions and Blake the past few years, lets not get spoiled by Nash and pretend we wouldn't take any of those 12 pg's if we had to our could.

Deron over Nash, just wow...

Lets Go Lakers wrote:For sure take over Nash:

CP3
Westbrook
Rose
Irving
Deron
Rhondo
Parker

Possibly take over Nash:

Bledsoe
Lawson
Jrue
Curry
Jennings

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote::man11: ^^^

Right now, CP3 sh*ts on Nash. Nash shows periods of brilliance and the other times, he's average and also getting torched on the defensive end. He's also overwhlemed sometimes by the overall athleticism of the game at times. CP3 is at the height of his powers and is brilliant 95% of the time. Also plays amazing defense. He caj break down a defense anytime he wants. I would take probably a dozen pgs over Nash right now.

Well here's your chance..... lets see just how much you can teach us.... NAME 12 OF THEM!....

OK, before you read the list, keep in mind that i am factoring in what type of PG would help this particular team. I am factoring what it needs. Our backcourt is a turnstile on defense with Nash and Kobe and we seriously lack some young legs. So athleticism is a strong consideration along with the ability to play some D. So this list is definitely not a list of who i think are better than Nash but rather who are better fits for this particular Laker team.

For sure take over Nash:

CP3
Westbrook
Rose
Irving
Deron
Rhondo
Parker

Possibly take over Nash:

Bledsoe
Lawson
Jrue
Curry
Jennings

Rose isn't even playing. Deron?
Westbrook next to Kobe would be chaos.
Irving is still unproven (playoffs-wise), though he does look like the real deal.
Nash > Parker CLEARLY for this team.

The only 2 I would take from that list are CP3 and Rondo. Rondo can't shoot though, so that would be a problem.

LOL @ your second list. WTF.

Someone is smoking too much.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
Possibly take over Nash:

Bledsoe
Lawson
Jrue
Curry
Jennings

Credibility --> Annihilated

How anyone can prefer a 39 year old Nash over Deron Williams is beyond my comprehension. That's a no brainer in favor of Deron IMO and it's not even close right now.

Do you realize that he's averaging less than his career average almost across the board? He's been extremely underwhelming in Brooklyn.

therealdeal wrote:Do you realize that he's averaging less than his career average almost across the board? He's been extremely underwhelming in Brooklyn.

Doesn't change the simple fact that he's clearly one of the best PGs in the game. Just because he's having an off year doesn't change that.

So he throws out random names to equal 12 names...
Surprised he didn't put in Stucky for sht and giggles and an injured billups.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

therealdeal wrote:Do you realize that he's averaging less than his career average almost across the board? He's been extremely underwhelming in Brooklyn.

Doesn't change the simple fact that he's clearly one of the best PGs in the game. Just because he's having an off year doesn't change that.

Sorry, no. Deron has been mediocre the moment he stepped into Brooklyn. He was entirely a Jerry Sloan product, and is no longer a Top 5 PG. 38 Year old Nash is much better than him on BOTH ends of the floor. Deron's not only less efficient, but also one of the worst defensive PG's in the league. Brooklyn's D gets substantially better with him off the floor. This isn't like, 2008 anymore, where it was okay to debate Deron vs Chris Paul.

You have listed a whole bunch of comical options over Steve Nash.

Steve Nash is the best non-Paul fit Point Guard for this team. If you picked someone like Curry or Irving over Nash because he's young, fine... but they aren't nearly as good as making their teammates better and running the O like Steve Nash is.

Finwë wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote::man11: ^^^

Right now, CP3 sh*ts on Nash. Nash shows periods of brilliance and the other times, he's average and also getting torched on the defensive end. He's also overwhlemed sometimes by the overall athleticism of the game at times. CP3 is at the height of his powers and is brilliant 95% of the time. Also plays amazing defense. He caj break down a defense anytime he wants. I would take probably a dozen pgs over Nash right now.

Well here's your chance..... lets see just how much you can teach us.... NAME 12 OF THEM!....

OK, before you read the list, keep in mind that i am factoring in what type of PG would help this particular team. I am factoring what it needs. Our backcourt is a turnstile on defense with Nash and Kobe and we seriously lack some young legs. So athleticism is a strong consideration along with the ability to play some D. So this list is definitely not a list of who i think are better than Nash but rather who are better fits for this particular Laker team.

For sure take over Nash:

CP3
Westbrook
Rose
Irving
Deron
Rhondo
Parker

Possibly take over Nash:

Bledsoe
Lawson
Jrue
Curry
Jennings

Rose isn't even playing. Deron?
Westbrook next to Kobe would be chaos.
Irving is still unproven (playoffs-wise), though he does look like the real deal.
Nash > Parker CLEARLY for this team.

The only 2 I would take from that list are CP3 and Rondo. Rondo can't shoot though, so that would be a problem.

LOL @ your second list. WTF.

Who cares if Rose isn't playing right now. When he comes back, do you take Nash over him?

And actually, Westbrook in this run and gun system might thrive.

Give me Parker, who has much more left in the tank than 39 year old Nash right now.

And like i said, my 2nd list is a "maybe" list. Jrue and Lawson torched Nash. They have bright futures. Curry is about as pure a shooter as they come. And i don't know if you've seen Bledsoe but "mini-Lebron" is about as athletic and explosive as they come. Give him time to develop his game some more and he'll be even better. Jennings is very, very iffy for me. But i had to pick a 12th guy.

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

therealdeal wrote:Do you realize that he's averaging less than his career average almost across the board? He's been extremely underwhelming in Brooklyn.

Doesn't change the simple fact that he's clearly one of the best PGs in the game. Just because he's having an off year doesn't change that.

Of course it does. Nash is a Hall of Famer, just because he's not averaging Hall of Fame numbers this season you're willing to throw him under the buss.

Armani wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

therealdeal wrote:Do you realize that he's averaging less than his career average almost across the board? He's been extremely underwhelming in Brooklyn.

Doesn't change the simple fact that he's clearly one of the best PGs in the game. Just because he's having an off year doesn't change that.

Sorry, no. Deron has been mediocre the moment he stepped into Brooklyn. He was entirely a Jerry Sloan product, and is no longer a Top 5 PG. 38 Year old Nash is much better than him on BOTH ends of the floor. Deron's not only less efficient, but also one of the worst defensive PG's in the league. Brooklyn's D gets substantially better with him off the floor. This isn't like, 2008 anymore, where it was okay to debate Deron vs Chris Paul.

You have listed a whole bunch of comical options over Steve Nash.

Steve Nash is the best non-Paul fit Point Guard for this team. If you picked someone like Curry or Irving over Nash because he's young, fine... but they aren't nearly as good as making their teammates better and running the O like Steve Nash is.

This.

Armani wrote:

Lets Go Lakers wrote:

therealdeal wrote:Do you realize that he's averaging less than his career average almost across the board? He's been extremely underwhelming in Brooklyn.

Doesn't change the simple fact that he's clearly one of the best PGs in the game. Just because he's having an off year doesn't change that.

Sorry, no. Deron has been mediocre the moment he stepped into Brooklyn. He was entirely a Jerry Sloan product, and is no longer a Top 5 PG. 38 Year old Nash is much better than him on BOTH ends of the floor. Deron's not only less efficient, but also one of the worst defensive PG's in the league. Brooklyn's D gets substantially better with him off the floor. This isn't like, 2008 anymore, where it was okay to debate Deron vs Chris Paul.

You have listed a whole bunch of comical options over Steve Nash.

Steve Nash is the best non-Paul fit Point Guard for this team. If you picked someone like Curry or Irving over Nash because he's young, fine... but they aren't nearly as good as making their teammates better and running the O like Steve Nash is.

Deron's stock has fell no doubt but talent is talent. When he's right, he's about as good as anyone outside of CP3. Now if he's never right, then that's another issue but right now, i take Deron and i don't need to think twice.

And like i said in my initial list, my list wasn't based on who i thought were better PGs than Nash. It was based on who i thought would help this team based on its needs like athleticism, youth, energy and defense. And that's exactly why i mentioned some of the young guns.

And yeah, Nash is about as good as anyone at facilitating the offense and setting guys up. But his defense is terrible and that is a part of basketball and can determine whether you win or lose games. And as you know, our backcourt D has is achillies of this D. We get a good defensive PG and a lot can change.