Dwight or Kobe?

Dwight or Kobe?

1) Dwight Howard
22
33%
2) Kobe Bryant
43
66%
 
Total votes : 65

Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby cthroatgtr on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:48 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
Weezy wrote:So we have to choose between the guy who has bad nights due to age and being played too many minutes and the guy who puts up terrible games like tonight by simply not doing enough? I still take Kobe, you play him less minutes and he's effective. What's Dwight's excuse? 8 points? 5 shots?


Dude. Rest isn't goong to do anything. Nothing will help. The guy is 34 and his legs are closer to 36. He's on his last legs and nothing will change that unless if he gets a bionic leg implanted. I don't know how old u are and what your level of basketball experience is but i am both old enough and played basketball enogh to know that you really start to lose your legs in your mid 30's. It's just a simple fact. Kobe can't keep up with the young legs. Maybe if you have a time machine? Nothing will make Kobe look fresher or younger.


Yet somehow Kobe still has more effort than Howard...
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby borri on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:48 pm

Weezy wrote:You really agree with him Borri? You see Dwight as the guy to lead us into the future? Because I don't, I wouldn't build around either one of them going forward if I had to choose, I'd honestly trade Dwight if we could get somebody great for him, and let Kobe retire when his contract is up if that's what he wants, and if he wants to stay on for cheap, fine.


I know right...crazy right? Dwight with pieces will do the job better than 34 year old Kobe. We have the wrong personnel and SYSTEM to maximize a good center.

We had D12 screening 17FT from the basket tonight!!!

Antoni system just doesn't cater to a true back to the basket center. Remember, D12 got ORL to the Finals and would have gotten their more often had it not been for those scum big 3 Celtics.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Weezy on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:52 pm

Dwight with the right pieces will do better than a 34 going on 35 year old Kobe, I agree, but better is not enough, better is not what the Lakers are about. Will he bring us championships? I don't see it, that's why I would go into the future fresh, with neither of them, but if I have to choose I still take Kobe because it's only one more season after this one and with the right pieces Kobe has proven he can get you a title, I still think he could do it one last time.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:58 pm

Weezy wrote:Dwight with the right pieces will do better than a 34 going on 35 year old Kobe, I agree, but better is not enough, better is not what the Lakers are about. Will he bring us championships? I don't see it, that's why I would go into the future fresh, with neither of them, but if I have to choose I still take Kobe because it's only one more season after this one and with the right pieces Kobe has proven he can get you a title, I still think he could do it one last time.


Dwight is the best C in the game and a top 5 player assuming his health returns. Even in his current form, he's borderline top 12 player. You don't just find talent like that anywhere. I can concede that he isn't the type of C who can carry a team like Olajuwon but he can be a great second fiddle sidekick to a great guard. Him and a great guard equals championship contender for years imo. Bring in someone like CP3 or Deron and watch out.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Weezy on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:02 pm

That's a big thing to assume though, the health of the back of a big man that had surgery on it. Yeah, if we had CP3 it would be great, and we did (f*** you David Stern), but I think he's pretty damn happy on the other LA team right now, and Deron's team is on a roll since the little general was fired.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Battle Tested20 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:06 pm

Instead of wanting D12 to change his personality, we just need to accept it for who he is. Nothing more and if you need any advice that it could work look at the Clippers team/locker room. Those guys are always joking on the plane and in the locker.

Sure they are winning game but CP3 is as cold as Kobe and he finds a way to balance the team. No need to change Howard.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby borri on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:11 pm

Weezy wrote:Dwight with the right pieces will do better than a 34 going on 35 year old Kobe, I agree, but better is not enough, better is not what the Lakers are about. Will he bring us championships? I don't see it, that's why I would go into the future fresh, with neither of them, but if I have to choose I still take Kobe because it's only one more season after this one and with the right pieces Kobe has proven he can get you a title, I still think he could do it one last time.


i am ok with that too.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:02 am

I can't imagine D12 in the 4th quarter game 7 of the Finals. If I was the opposing coach, I'd be doing Hack-A-D12 any chance I could.

I wouldn't even double team him either. If he scores one on one in the post on someone it's a miracle, if he gets close to dunking it, just foul him.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby escobar8 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:41 am

none...they will both be here...kobe will retire and dwight will resign...he aint stupid to leave la...
yea...dwight is missing post moves...but he is still best C in the league...plus everybody complains about lacking young legs and athleticism...so why trade howard then...we just need more balanced roster next year and we will be fine...
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Big Mamma Jamma on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:57 am

escobar8 wrote:none...they will both be here...kobe will retire and dwight will resign...he aint stupid to leave la...
yea...dwight is missing post moves...but he is still best C in the league...plus everybody complains about lacking young legs and athleticism...so why trade howard then...we just need more balanced roster next year and we will be fine...


Agreed. We need an athletic PF that can defend so it takes the pressure off of D12. We need youth all across the board.

I still believe that Kobe will be extremely effectively if his minutes were limited to say 35-37 minutes. We are all witnessing the accumulation of a half of a season of heavy use. MDA has done nothing to regulate Kobe's minutes ...

I say keep both of them.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby lakersStan24 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:56 am

For Our Future It Has to Be Dwight that's if your thinking long term
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:00 pm

Doc Brown wrote:I can't imagine D12 in the 4th quarter game 7 of the Finals. If I was the opposing coach, I'd be doing Hack-A-D12 any chance I could.

I wouldn't even double team him either. If he scores one on one in the post on someone it's a miracle, if he gets close to dunking it, just foul him.



..... a point I've tried to make since last May. He's not ever going to be "The Guy" on a championship squad because of fundamentals..... pure and simple.

He shoots 57% but if you subtract dunks it's way under 50%. Why is that important?... because in a tight series in the playoff you don't get dunks..... teams are too good and have had time to game plan for it. Again, you need a diverse fundamental game to fall back on to be a real leader when the bright lights are on....
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:34 pm

Would anyome still take Nash over Deron? :bang: The guy hurts the team more than helps it, whether he's turning the ball over, can't even get by his man orgetting dominatrded on d. His negatives outweigh his positives.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby JGC on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:36 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Would anyome still take Nash over Deron? :bang: The guy hurts the team more than helps it, whether he's turning the ball over, can't even get by his man orgetting dominatrded on d. His negatives outweigh his positives.


I would take Jrue Holiday over Nash. But, that wasn't a very favorable opinion a couple weeks ago.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby phoenixrisingla on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:59 pm

I've changed my mind on this.

At the beginning of the season it was a no brainer. Dwight was our future.

I know we're only halfway through the season but I think I've seen enough. The the complaining, the behind-the-back-trash-talking, the injuries, the smiling in losses, the deflection, the blaming, the passive aggressiveness, the lack of leadership, and most of all the lack of consistent effort.

Dude is an above average talent in a once in a lifetime body/frame and thats it. I have zero confidence that this is the guy to take us forward.

We've been spoiled the last 15 (wont count his first two) seasons to have a leader who, although imperfect, cares about winning above all else and is willing to put in the work to get it done.

So I guess I cant answer the OP's question because Kobe is likely retiring after next year and I'm not interested in giving Dwight the keys and becoming the Orlando Magic.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby D.B. Cooper on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:24 pm

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Would anyome still take Nash over Deron? :bang: The guy hurts the team more than helps it, whether he's turning the ball over, can't even get by his man orgetting dominatrded on d. His negatives outweigh his positives.

Would you till take Howard over Bryant?
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby MC on Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:58 am

How does a thread like this get to 11 pages?

the question is POINTLESS.....

the problem is not the Bryant/Howard dynamic......... it's the MDA dynamic with everyone not named Nash, Bryant or MWP.

If anything MDA staying is what will deter Howard from staying if you want the guy so bad....has Nothing to do with Bryant IMO, he's already gone on record as saying he's finishing this contract than hanging it up. Until there are signs that suggest he's not than what decision is there to make here? how does a Bryant or Howard question even form from this? The OP seems to have an agenda outside of this simple question IMO.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby JGC on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:06 am

^ Well, I think it's a valid question at this point. I mean, we have a very serious possibility of losing Dwight. So the question is, do you move him to try to capitalize on Kobe's final year and get someone better suited for Kobe?

Or, do you try to appease to Dwight even if it means "shifting the focus" a bit off of Bryant and on to D12?

Either way, it really doesn't look like having Kobe along side another aspiring #1 type player in a 1a/1b type set up is ever going to work. I don't think Kobe has any interest in sharing the spotlight on equal footing with anyone else. He's an alpha who just isn't ready to let go a bit.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby phoenixrisingla on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:52 am

JGC wrote:^ Well, I think it's a valid question at this point. I mean, we have a very serious possibility of losing Dwight. So the question is, do you move him to try to capitalize on Kobe's final year and get someone better suited for Kobe?

Or, do you try to appease to Dwight even if it means "shifting the focus" a bit off of Bryant and on to D12?

Either way, it really doesn't look like having Kobe along side another aspiring #1 type player in a 1a/1b type set up is ever going to work. I don't think Kobe has any interest in sharing the spotlight on equal footing with anyone else. He's an alpha who just isn't ready to let go a bit.


He scaled his game back a little when he was playing with Shaq, so we know he was at least CAPABLE of it.

Would he do that in his advanced (read; stubborn) age? Is there enough time left for someone to gain Kobe's trust enough that he's share?

Who knows. I think I tend do side with you that he's not going to share this close to the end and plans to retire while still #1 for the lakers.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:58 am

D.B. Cooper wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:Would anyome still take Nash over Deron? :bang: The guy hurts the team more than helps it, whether he's turning the ball over, can't even get by his man orgetting dominatrded on d. His negatives outweigh his positives.

Would you till take Howard over Bryant?


Yes i would without hesitation. I'm a fan of the team first before any single player so i care about the future of the team. And locking up a rare, superstar talent like Dwight for our future is more important than having Kobe for a year or two. Dwight will be stronger and more explosive next year IMO.

Kobe was supposed to take a back seat this year and let the talent of the team jell. But instead, he's having one of his most prolific seasons ever in terms of shots attempt. That is just not right. Not with the talent on this team. Kobe had some great games but he also hurt us in many others by simply not even making an attempt to get others involved.

So yeah, i'm kind of looking forward to a new era. An era where the stars like to share the ball and we embrace the team concept instead of seeing one guy trying to do it all. Hopefully we lock up Dwight and find a great PG very soon to make a devastating combo.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:02 am

JGC wrote:^ Well, I think it's a valid question at this point. I mean, we have a very serious possibility of losing Dwight. So the question is, do you move him to try to capitalize on Kobe's final year and get someone better suited for Kobe?

Or, do you try to appease to Dwight even if it means "shifting the focus" a bit off of Bryant and on to D12?

Either way, it really doesn't look like having Kobe along side another aspiring #1 type player in a 1a/1b type set up is ever going to work. I don't think Kobe has any interest in sharing the spotlight on equal footing with anyone else. He's an alpha who just isn't ready to let go a bit.


Bingo. And that was and is still a serious problem on why we are this bad. Of course there are a million other reasons but that is also an issue. When your star player decides he doesn't care about playing team ball, it kills team morale. It makes guys less active and less willing to move around to try to get open. You have a bunch of iso situations because that's what they are used too.

Kobe should've taken a back seat this year and try to jell with the team but instead, he's done the opposite. He had to impose his will to let Dwight and Nash know who is still boss. That's fine and all but too bad it made us a worse team.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby JGC on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:04 am

Weezy wrote:Dwight with the right pieces will do better than a 34 going on 35 year old Kobe, I agree, but better is not enough, better is not what the Lakers are about. Will he bring us championships? I don't see it, that's why I would go into the future fresh, with neither of them, but if I have to choose I still take Kobe because it's only one more season after this one and with the right pieces Kobe has proven he can get you a title, I still think he could do it one last time.


If you can start fresh with Dwight Howard, you do it. Why wouldn't you? Your other option is to hope you get a Dwight like player then but you could have already had him. Doesn't mean he has to be your #1 guy, I mean let's be real, most true big men outside of once in a generation type players like Shaq aren't your #1 because they simply rely on guards to get the ball. He who touches the ball most is almost always your leader and guards always touch the ball more than their frontcourt counter parts.

The approach would be similar to what the Clippers did. You start with Dwight (or in their case Griffin), and you find yourself a young guard (in the mold of a CP3, Kobe, etc) and you build around them together and fill in the gaps from there.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby phoenixrisingla on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:12 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:
D.B. Cooper wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:Would anyome still take Nash over Deron? :bang: The guy hurts the team more than helps it, whether he's turning the ball over, can't even get by his man orgetting dominatrded on d. His negatives outweigh his positives.

Would you till take Howard over Bryant?


Yes i would without hesitation. I'm a fan of the team first before any single player so i care about the future of the team. And locking up a rare, superstar talent like Dwight for our future is more important than having Kobe for a year or two. Dwight will be stronger and more explosive next year IMO.

Kobe was supposed to take a back seat this year and let the talent of the team jell. But instead, he's having one of his most prolific seasons ever in terms of shots attempt. That is just not right. Not with the talent on this team. Kobe had some great games but he also hurt us in many others by simply not even making an attempt to get others involved.

So yeah, i'm kind of looking forward to a new era. An era where the stars like to share the ball and we embrace the team concept instead of seeing one guy trying to do it all. Hopefully we lock up Dwight and find a great PG very soon to make a devastating combo.


Look, I'm not trying to pile on Dwight or you specifically, but I'm not sure how anyone could watch this season and have any confidence in Dwight to be our franchise centerpiece.

He's an above average talent in a once-in-a-lifetime body/frame. Dont you EVER find it frustrating that our "superstar" center has no post moves, no jumper. huge trunover clip, lazy picks...

And thats just his ON COURT issues! :man10:

Anyway, I dont hate Dwight but after watching him this year I have some pretyt serious concerns about handing him the keys and basing our future plans around him.

Besides the question is purely hypothetical, kobe is likely retiring after next year. Cant be our franchise player coaching a team from his villa in Italy. :man1:
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:19 am

^^^^^

Sigh. Why do almost all of you Dwight haters simply concentrate on the false notion that he somehow has to be our "centerpiece" or "lead" our team to a championship? He needs another sidekick guard to compliment him. I know he can't lead a team ala Olajuwon, etc. because he doesn't have that type of offensive game but if he just does what he's capable of doing in rebouding and defense and give him a great PG who can compliment him, the two of them can lead this TEAM together. That's where i'm coming from. It's obvious that you can't ride Howard on the offensive end. But he's not know for his offense. His job is to rebound, play D, and get put backs near the basket. He gets 20 points just by doing that.

So get rid of this notion that Howard has to be the focus and lead this team by himself. He can't. He needs a star PG to compliment him. But that is something we can acquire. It's much harder to acquire a talent like Howard AND another star PG. We already have Howard, so it's easier to attract a great PG here.
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Re: Dwight or Kobe?

Postby phoenixrisingla on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:27 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:^^^^^

Sigh. Why do almost all of you Dwight haters simply concentrate on the false notion that he somehow has to be our "centerpiece" or "lead" our team to a championship? He needs another sidekick guard to compliment him. I know he can't lead a team ala Olajuwon, etc. because he doesn't have that type of offensive game but if he just does what he's capable of doing in rebouding and defense and give him a great PG who can compliment him, the two of them can lead this TEAM together. That's where i'm coming from. It's obvious that you can't ride Howard on the offensive end. But he's not know for his offense. His job is to rebound, play D, and get put backs near the basket. He gets 20 points just by doing that.

So get rid of this notion that Howard has to be the focus and lead this team by himself. He can't. He needs a star PG to compliment him. But that is something we can acquire. It's much harder to acquire a talent like Howard AND another star PG. We already have Howard, so it's easier to attract a great PG here.


Sigh yourself! :boxing1: lol

Do you really think people dont know we need other good players besides Dwight? Dont pretend to be simple, because I know you're not. :bow:

Anyway, you described the problem perfectly. Dwight cant lead the team, but he is unwilling to accept someone else as the leader. Have you really pretended not to see the tension between him and kobe this year? He kinda like a kid in that regard, he wants the cash, he wants the accolades and attention when things are going well, but he doesnt want the pressure and the demands to perform.

I could be wrong, and of course he still young and can change, but thats what I've seen this year. And its not exactly confidence inspiring.
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